JI7 (42,242 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014602462
Vatican Excommunicates Gay-Supportive Australian Priest
Source: advocate
In the wake of encouraging statements Pope Francis made in an interview published last week comes evidence that the Roman Catholic Church still definitely does not embrace LGBT equality — the excommunication of a gay-supportive priest in Melbourne, Australia.
dipsydoodle (35,716 posts)
9. Nothing confirms this to be the sole reason anyway -
there seems to have been other issues which may have been of higher importance with the gay aspect just being a red herring. Wouldn't have thought it would take light years to translate the Latin into English for the actual reasons.
Alamuti Lotus (2,924 posts)
3. I guess they didn't hear the fine-sounding sentiments from their figurehead
Shivering Jemmy (527 posts)
10. What makes you think
That the pope is the boss? He's one of several bosses. Probably the one with the most theoretical power. But his power base in the Vatican is tenuous and other bishops might have more influence at the moment
Hydra (11,165 posts)
16. Hard to say
The Pope could be just trying for a more positive image with his comments about LBGT stuff and Globalization, or he could be rocking the boat and will have to fight the establish power structure to move away from stuff like this.
That said, this is an organic process. If they kick out all of the equality friendly voices from the church(that includes people like me), then they're just going to be an empty shell full of hateful/fearful people that no one will view as a positive influence in the world.
The choice is theirs- money/power/evil or what their messiah stands for
Now, if only we could find some way to excommunicate all GAY loving DUmmies from humanity.........
it would take light years to translate the Latin into English for the actual reasons.
Probably caught him with a boy and the victim's family doesn't want it dragged out in the open.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
The Pope gets it. It's about changing our sinful ways and accepting the sinner. NOT accepting the sin...
I've been trying to tell my liberal, Catholic friends that the Pope isn't changing doctrine. They just love reading the pulled quotes. If you read deeper, the Pope is the real Catholic deal.
Jesus loved sinners. His earthly mission was for the lost sheep. He ate and hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. The Prodigal Son in the parable consorted with prostitutes. The Pope gets it. It's about changing our sinful ways and accepting the sinner. NOT accepting the sin...
I've been trying to tell my liberal, Catholic friends that the Pope isn't changing doctrine. They just love reading the pulled quotes. If you read deeper, the Pope is the real Catholic deal.
Jesus loved sinners. His earthly mission was for the lost sheep. He ate and hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. The Prodigal Son in the parable consorted with prostitutes. The Pope gets it. It's about changing our sinful ways and accepting the sinner. NOT accepting the sin...
One of the smartest people on the internet does know that "light years" are a measurement of distance and not of time?
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"I cannot equate a Tax collector or prostitutes to sinners, perhaps not an ideal job but someone has to do it."
-Sighs and facepalms-
Prostitutes= Sleeping around, and having loose morals, which is sinful.
Tax collectors in that day and age were known for being incredibly corrupt as a rule, and those tax collectors who happened to be Jewish were particularly despised, as they were viewed as selling out their own people to the Roman government that was oppressing them. Disloyalty and dishonest business practices are sinful.
Probably caught him with a boy and the victim's family doesn't want it dragged out in the open.
Never did understand the prostitution as a sin thing but the men that are willing to pay them to sin are considered blameless. If males controlled themselves there would be no Prostitutes. When has anyone ever heard a male accused of loose morals because he gets a divorce and remarries ? Or shame put on a male that has more then a couple of children by 2 or more woman and not ever married any of them.
Don't believe Jesus felt this way about tax collectors----- " Rend unto Cesar what is Cesar's----- Rend into the Lord what is HIS" this I would believe to mean paying taxes and being conscripted into the military to defend the land and lives of the people.
CC, can you explain in the religious topic what is or is not a SIN, and how all different society's view it, is to sin a time and actual consequence of the environment at the time or is it open to interpretation .
II. THE DEFINITION OF SIN
1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121
1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God's love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125
1851 It is precisely in the Passion, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish it, that sin most clearly manifests its violence and its many forms: unbelief, murderous hatred, shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people, Pilate's cowardice and the cruelty of the soldiers, Judas' betrayal - so bitter to Jesus, Peter's denial and the disciples' flight. However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the prince of this world,126 the sacrifice of Christ secretly becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will pour forth inexhaustibly.
III. THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF SINS
1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: "Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."
I've been trying to tell my liberal, Catholic friends that the Pope isn't changing doctrine. They just love reading the pulled quotes. If you read deeper, the Pope is the real Catholic deal.Exactly! I guess they missed the part of the interview where the Holy Father said this:
Jesus loved sinners. His earthly mission was for the lost sheep. He ate and hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. The Prodigal Son in the parable consorted with prostitutes. The Pope gets it. It's about changing our sinful ways and accepting the sinner. NOT accepting the sin...
The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church,The NYT decided to just gloss over that! ::)
Nuf said WineS! Find any logic in that post?
Hydra (11,165 posts)The pope answers to church doctrine.He cannot and will not create doctrine out of thin air. In order for him to change church doctrine he has to make an "infallible declaration". This declaration has to be rooted in church tradition.There is no tradition that says women can be ordained,gays can be married or that homosexuality is normal and is to be celebrated(Homosexuality is defined by the church as being disordered but that we as Catholics are to pray for and have compassion for them as we would any other sinner)or that killing the unborn is ok as long as you have a good reason. None of these things will ever be changed because they cant be.
16. Hard to say
The Pope could be just trying for a more positive image with his comments about LBGT stuff and Globalization, or he could be rocking the boat and will have to fight the establish power structure to move away from stuff like this.
That said, this is an organic process. If they kick out all of the equality friendly voices from the church(that includes people like me), then they're just going to be an empty shell full of hateful/fearful people that no one will view as a positive influence in the world.
The choice is theirs- money/power/evil or what their messiah stands for
The pope answers to church doctrine.He cannot and will not create doctrine out of thin air. In order for him to change church doctrine he has to make an "infallible declaration". This declaration has to be rooted in church tradition.There is no tradition that says women can be ordained,gays can be married or that homosexuality is normal and is to be celebrated(Homosexuality is defined by the church as being disordered but that we as Catholics are to pray for and have compassion for them as we would any other sinner)or that killing the unborn is ok as long as you have a good reason. None of these things will ever be changed because they cant be.
Never did understand the prostitution as a sin thing but the men that are willing to pay them to sin are considered blameless. If males controlled themselves there would be no Prostitutes. When has anyone ever heard a male accused of loose morals because he gets a divorce and remarries ? Or shame put on a male that has more then a couple of children by 2 or more woman and not ever married any of them.
Don't believe Jesus felt this way about tax collectors----- " Rend unto Cesar what is Cesar's----- Rend into the Lord what is HIS" this I would believe to mean paying taxes and being conscripted into the military to defend the land and lives of the people.
CC, can you explain in the religious topic what is or is not a SIN, and how all different society's view it, is to sin a time and actual consequence of the environment at the time or is it open to interpretation .
The Pope gets it. It's about changing our sinful ways and accepting the sinner. NOT accepting the sin...
Zip, zero, nada.Vesta should have offered to lend you some scissors, too.
Now I'm going to go play in the street.
Hydra (11,165 posts)Strangely enough, this post seems to indicate that you have no idea what He stands for... :o
16. Hard to say
The Pope could be just trying for a more positive image with his comments about LBGT stuff and Globalization, or he could be rocking the boat and will have to fight the establish power structure to move away from stuff like this.
That said, this is an organic process. If they kick out all of the equality friendly voices from the church(that includes people like me), then they're just going to be an empty shell full of hateful/fearful people that no one will view as a positive influence in the world.
The choice is theirs- money/power/evil or what their messiah stands for.
The Pope gets it. It's about changing our sinful ways and accepting the sinner. NOT accepting the sin...Point 1) We don't "accept" the sinner...we LOVE him. We love him (or her) enough to pray for them, tell them the truth about sin, and explain the way out of bondage to sin. We love people enough to tell them the truth even when they attack us and hate us for it.
Odd I have no idea how anyone can do this act. Seems to me that those that commit evil deeds for their own benefit irregardless of who or how many are harmed place themselves in the position of being unacceptable to those they harm or may harm in the future.
This is where society's laws come in, we have jails and mental institutions to keep the sinners away from the public and harm at their hands.
I doubt Jesus hung out with murderers, child molesters, thugs, pyromaniacs or serial killers.
I cannot equate a Tax collector or prostitutes to sinners, perhaps not an ideal job but someone has to do it.
Guess a sin is to harm another for ones own benefit. Definition changes from society to society through the years, adultery was a sin that meant death for the woman, not for the man.
However I look at it, there are some outright Evil ba*tards in this world and to accept them but hate what they are doing makes no sense at all.
No way will I accept the Muslim terrorists and still hate what they are doing. Nasty bunch of people that only live to die and have an eternity of sex with virgins. No one has ever explained to me what happens to the used virgins, are they cast into hell ?
Point 1) We don't "accept" the sinner...we LOVE him. We love him (or her) enough to pray for them, tell them the truth about sin, and explain the way out of bondage to sin. We love people enough to tell them the truth even when they attack us and hate us for it.
Point 2) all people are sinners.
Exactly - ^5.
If somebody I love has drunk too much and wants to drive home, should I "accept" his choice, or try to convince him that it's best that he doesn't? It is precisely because of our love, that we try to get sinners to change their ways.
The first sinner whose ways we should try to change is always ourselves.
Exactly - ^5.
If somebody I love has drunk too much and wants to drive home, should I "accept" his choice, or try to convince him that it's best that he doesn't? It is precisely because of our love, that we try to get sinners to change their ways.
The first sinner whose ways we should try to change is always ourselves.
Exactly - ^5.
If somebody I love has drunk too much and wants to drive home, should I "accept" his choice, or try to convince him that it's best that he doesn't? It is precisely because of our love, that we try to get sinners to change their ways.
The first sinner whose ways we should try to change is always ourselves.
Has to be a reason why the TV Evangelists never caught on Up here, ---in the 50's Boston did have a Cardinal Sheen hold mass on a radio station and give a short talk for those that were shut ins or unable to attend services. Much like his Brothers of the Protestant faith when he passed away it became a shock to his followers that this man they had faithfully followed as a Priest who had given up all claim to his earthly goods had willed to his housekeeper a few 100 thousands of dollars. He himself owned a large amount of income property that did not go to the Church but to both male and female friends.