The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hathcock on July 02, 2013, 12:47:55 PM
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Our government is broken, they no longer even try to hide the corruption. Our president is only presiding over scandals. What would you do to get the attention of our self serving politicians, don't just say vote them out, we did that in the 2010 mid terms and nothing has changed, Articles of impeachment and spending bills originate in Congress and Obama is still getting all the money he wants and there are no articles of impeachment. They hold their committees on the scandals but do nothing for fear they won't be re-elected. So the question is... how would you change things?
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A new civil war may come soon. No politician listens to us, and it's time to change that. Politics was never intended to be a CAREER!
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A new civil war may come soon. No politician listens to us, and it's time to change that. Politics was never intended to be a CAREER!
Could citizens effectively fight against our military? Very few have class three weapons (i.e. fully automatic) Granted since the NSA is probably reading this, this is all hypothetical.
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Could citizens effectively fight against our military? Very few have class three weapons (i.e. fully automatic) Granted since the NSA is probably reading this, this is all hypothetical.
But how much of our military would be on blammo's side? Most of them hate him, too.
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I hope that would be the case, I have seen reports that the Obama admin was vetting military leaders to find the ones willing to fire upon citizens if necessary. The upper ranks of the officer corps might be willing to but I'd have a hard time believing the enlisted ranks would.
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It's a mistake to assume the senior military leadership is not behind the President, no matter how bad he may suck. The stars are all politically-approved appointments (Not just for the first star, but for every promotion and new appointment to a position), both by the sitting Administration and by the Senate. They might balk at executing particularly weird or extreme orders, but it would be completely outside their box to actually turn on the President or SecDef. The values are not 100% in accord with the values of the rank and file, and the rank and file is as unlikely to actually turn on the generals as the generals are to turn on the President.
In other words, things will probably get a lot worse before they get any better, we're in a period where the failings of popular democracy are coming to the fore over its advantages, and the best thing to do for the individual is to disengage from the looming disaster as much as possible.
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I am coming up with an escape plan just in case, I love my country but not the direction it's headed. I have kids and have to consider what kind of future they would have in a socialist nation.
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I am coming up with an escape plan just in case, I love my country but not the direction it's headed. I have kids and have to consider what kind of future they would have in a socialist nation.
There is no escape. There is no refuge for us to flee too.
The rest of the world may flee to freedom in America. There is no place that will offer us shelter. Europe is falling faster than we are.
This is it. the last stand for freedom on Earth.
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It's a mistake to assume the senior military leadership is not behind the President, no matter how bad he may suck. The stars are all politically-approved appointments (Not just for the first star, but for every promotion and new appointment to a position), both by the sitting Administration and by the Senate. They might balk at executing particularly weird or extreme orders, but it would be completely outside their box to actually turn on the President or SecDef. The values are not 100% in accord with the values of the rank and file, and the rank and file is as unlikely to actually turn on the generals as the generals are to turn on the President.
In other words, things will probably get a lot worse before they get any better, we're in a period where the failings of popular democracy are coming to the fore over its advantages, and the best thing to do for the individual is to disengage from the looming disaster as much as possible.
We have seen so far senior enlisted short by 4-6 years of retirement refused to be re enlisted. Sad an E8 with 16 years in, a perfect record and commendations up the Butt suddenly finding themselves a civilian, loss of medical care for the family, base housing and commissary privileges, no retirement and they are 40+ years old now trying to understand what the Hell happened.
I have no problem with the young officers that get the boot, these are the college educated, and are under 30.
My problem is with the old timers that have made the military their lives since they were 18-19 and excelled at their work. Gone for months or even a year from their family's at times and still hung in there due to the promiss of retirement and a chance to finally get to know their family.
Nothing new here, back in 1980 when there were too many people for too few jobs a lot of men were refused re upping, they were out of the military as there were too many people in their job or the job was being shut down. These kids with 4-8 years of service were released from the military and found they could not get unemployment as some how it was considered they had quit their job------Don't ask me how but I heard from a bunch of wives desperate as their husbands serving on the Nimitz were frantic about what was going on.-----
A long time ago so I may have forgotten all the incidents back then but times were a mess.
BUT I do remember 1970 when the military had some big cuts due to Nixon [the bastard] and seeing what he had cut from our boys coming into Honolulu. Tippler Hospital on the hill where I spent a lot of time due to pregnancy and kidney failure.
Planes landing all the time bringing these kids with no legs or arms back from Asia, horrid. ----Little support, we had to cart our IV stands up two floors and help the kids write home and most of these kids were only 3-4 years younger then us woman.
Sorry about the spelling, thinking back on what was then that is the same as now after all these years,
seems that life stays under the same name regardless what the name change is.
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Could citizens effectively fight against our military? Very few have class three weapons (i.e. fully automatic) Granted since the NSA is probably reading this, this is all hypothetical.
Obama's own pettiness is going to come back to haunt him in this regard. Think about it: which government service has most taken it in the shorts since February because of sequester? The military, right?
And how is sequester mostly affecting them? Combat arms units are finding their equipment grounded for lack of operating budget at the unit level, or down-checked on maintenance issues for which there is no budget to address. Tack on to that reductions in training hours because the equipment is sitting idle, and all of a sudden, the military isn't looking as monolithic and razor honed as we have grown accustomed to seeing them.
All pre-supposing your hypothetical notion of The Holy Won of Shit-cago employing the military as some sort of counter-insurgency force within our borders (and further pre-supposing the even more hypothetical thought that the military would obey such an order), of course.
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Our government is broken, they no longer even try to hide the corruption. Our president is only presiding over scandals. What would you do to get the attention of our self serving politicians, don't just say vote them out, we did that in the 2010 mid terms and nothing has changed, Articles of impeachment and spending bills originate in Congress and Obama is still getting all the money he wants and there are no articles of impeachment. They hold their committees on the scandals but do nothing for fear they won't be re-elected. So the question is... how would you change things?
As far as I am concerned, I'll just keep on keeping on but just for the sake of discussion...
I see plenty of rants(?) like this, always raging against the machine of tyranny, asking or demanding of answers but never an answer is offered by them.
And then we have this...
I am coming up with an escape plan just in case, I love my country but not the direction it's headed. I have kids and have to consider what kind of future they would have in a socialist nation
So that's *your* plan then?
While you task the rest of us to try to save the democratic experiment you are going to make a run for it? I can't help myself but to be unimpressed by your seriousness. If you are so concerned for the continued existence of this experiment you must have some realistic ideas of what must be done besides, of course, running away.
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As far as I am concerned, I'll just keep on keeping on but just for the sake of discussion...
I see plenty of rants(?) like this, always raging against the machine of tyranny, asking or demanding of answers but never an answer is offered by them.
And then we have this...
So that's *your* plan then?
While you task the rest of us to try to save the democratic experiment you are going to make a run for it? I can't help myself but to be unimpressed by your seriousness. If you are so concerned for the continued existence of this experiment you must have some realistic ideas of what must be done besides, of course, running away.
No That is not my "plan" and I don't expect everyone else to solve all of our nations problems for me. I love my country and if people will pull their heads out of their asses and work together to save it I'll do what ever I have to to help, I took an oath to protect the constitution and as far as I'm concerned there is no expiration date on that oath. But if we are a nation are so dead that everyone just turns a blind eye as the US crumbles down around us then what is there to fight for?
This little rant of mine is to look for new ideas to start uniting the people around me, to possibly start attracting attention to the fact that there are people willing to change things. it has to start somewhere.
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No That is not my "plan" and I don't expect everyone else to solve all of our nations problems for me. I love my country and if people will pull their heads out of their asses and work together to save it I'll do what ever I have to to help, I took an oath to protect the constitution and as far as I'm concerned there is no expiration date on that oath. But if we are a nation are so dead that everyone just turns a blind eye as the US crumbles down around us then what is there to fight for?
This little rant of mine is to look for new ideas to start uniting the people around me, to possibly start attracting attention to the fact that there are people willing to change things. it has to start somewhere.
So...ya got nuthin.
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I have my ideas, I'm involved in local and state level politics. People have to be united somehow, petty social bullshit politics divide us and distract from the real issues our country faces. There has to be a way to overcome the divisions. one reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because he's divided the country more than any other president in history.
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One reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because something more then half of voters can't be bothered to give a shit one way or the other.
There is your problem, you can lead a horse to water and whatnot.
Here is a suggestion, which I might add you have not made one, just let it burn and then maybe some folkes will wake up.
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I would rather fight for it while it's worth saving, I don't want my kids and grandkids go through the two or three generations of socialism before that fails miserably for everyone to decide they want to be free.
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I would rather fight for it while it's worth saving, I don't want my kids and grandkids go through the two or three generations of socialism before that fails miserably for everyone to decide they want to be free.
So...still, ya got nuthin.
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I have my ideas, I'm involved in local and state level politics. People have to be united somehow, petty social bullshit politics divide us and distract from the real issues our country faces. There has to be a way to overcome the divisions. one reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because he's divided the country more than any other president in history.
I think it's going to come down to state and local politicians telling the federal ones to go to hell and standing by that decision to bring about any changes in the federal government.....take back those rights reserved to the states.
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I think it's going to come down to state and local politicians telling the federal ones to go to hell and standing by that decision to bring about any changes in the federal government.....take back those rights reserved to the states.
That's exactly what it's gonna take. Problem Hathcock and I have is we have two ****ing RINO's in the seats that are supposed to be representing the state. You have one across the river as well. Shambles, Isaakson, and Graham need to ****ing go yesterday.
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I'm trying to create a plan, but mostly what I get are people like you that want to just "keep on keeping on". The time for that is past. Step up get in the game help develop a plan instead of criticizing people who admit they don't have the answers and hope that there is something to learn from asking others.
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That's exactly what it's gonna take. Problem Hathcock and I have is we have two ****ing RINO's in the seats that are supposed to be representing the state. You have one across the river as well. Shambles, Isaakson, and Graham need to ****ing go yesterday.
Not to mention we have nothing in Congress, one of our reps thinks Guam will tip over into the ocean.
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I'm trying to create a plan, but mostly what I get are people like you that want to just "keep on keeping on". The time for that is past. Step up get in the game help develop a plan instead of criticizing people who admit they don't have the answers and hope that there is something to learn from asking others.
Well, you got my suggestion.
Find a way to make people give a shit but I haven't seen a way to do that beyond letting the people sit in their mess.
Rebs got it right but it's such a tenuous thing ain't it? Even if it goes back to states rights what's to say the the people of the states will get it right? You must get the attention of the people right, so what is the best way to do that? Give them shit, obamaphones, free money and whatnot. That's what the other side is doing right.
What we have to offer is hard, you gotta get off your ass to get anything done, who is going to want that?
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That's exactly what it's gonna take. Problem Hathcock and I have is we have two ****ing RINO's in the seats that are supposed to be representing the state. You have one across the river as well. Shambles, Isaakson, and Graham need to ****ing go yesterday.
What does it take, or better question, can a senator be impeached and for what reasons? Graham certainly does not have the best interest of the people of SC at heart.
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Find a way to make people give a shit but I haven't seen a way to do that beyond letting the people sit in their mess.
Rebs got it right but it's such a tenuous thing ain't it? Even if it goes back to states rights what's to say the the people of the states will get it right? You must get the attention of the people right, so what is the best way to do that? Give them shit, obamaphones, free money and whatnot. That's what the other side is doing right.
What we have to offer is hard, you gotta get off your ass to get anything done, who is going to want that?
I think enough people still give a shit, problem is getting them united and headed in the same direction. State level something has to be done to make politicians fear us not us fear them. The best was to help someone is to make them uncomfortable enough to change their situation.
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Illinois is way too far gone to ever fully recover.
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Illinois is way too far gone to ever fully recover.
ok should there be a secession of states that can be saved with the hopes that the country can be reunited once socialism fails?
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The best was to help someone is to make them uncomfortable enough to change their situation.
And that, in my humble opinion, is the nub.
Ok so Obama got elected once...fine...but twice?!? How can this be?
Uncomfortable...That is an apt word, again we are back to beginning.
The lure of socialism is "to each as they require" and I can't help but to see that is what the people see and far too many folkes kinda think that is a good thing.
As I've already stated, the only solution is to let it burn and hope that the people get uncomfortable enough to do things a little different.
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And that, in my humble opinion, is the nub.
Ok so Obama got elected once...fine...but twice?!? How can this be?
Uncomfortable...That is an apt word, again we are back to beginning.
The lure of socialism is "to each as they require" and I can't help but to see that is what the people see and far too many folkes kinda think that is a good thing.
As I've already stated, the only solution is to let it burn and hope that the people get uncomfortable enough to do things a little different.
look at how long it took the USSR to fail, do you want to spend the remaining years of your life in a socialist nation? We would be better served fighting to unite those of us that are willing to stand up and do what is necessary to change the direction we're headed.
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look at how long it took the USSR to fail, do you want to spend the remaining years of your life in a socialist nation? We would be better served fighting to unite those of us that are willing to stand up and do what is necessary to change the direction we're headed.
Honestly?
To me it no longer matters, I'm just coasting along and watching things as they unfold. I don't really care so much because I have come to understand that there is nothing I can do about demographics.
You, on the other hand, have offered nothing other then "FIGHT" but nothing else. Why don't you answer your own OP for me. Give me your ideas of how you would lead the unwashed masses to a better life.
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One reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because something more then half of voters can't be bothered to give a shit one way or the other.
Oh, there's a problem about too many people not giving a shit, but the real reason isn't that, it's because more than half the active voters actually benefit more from handouts and social programs than from freedom, and value that benefit over their freedom. When 47% of the workers aren't paying any net income tax and a big chunk of the rest are benefiting from one form or another of social welfare programs from SSDI to extended unemployment to food stamps to the schools taking care of all their kids' nutritional requirements every day, do you think they're going to vote to flag down the gravy train? Social programs have ballooned to the point that they are actually buying the popular vote, and that's not even counting the dead who so reliably vote Democrat, or unions who are solidly engaged in a long-term circle-jerk with the Donks.
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Oh, there's a problem about too many people not giving a shit, but the real reason isn't that, it's because more than half the active voters actually benefit more from handouts and social programs than from freedom, and value that benefit over their freedom. When 47% of the workers aren't paying any net income tax and a big chunk of the rest are benefiting from one form or another of social welfare programs from SSDI to extended unemployment to food stamps to the schools taking care of all their kids' nutritional requirements every day, do you think they're going to vote to flag down the gravy train? Social programs have ballooned to the point that they are actually buying the popular vote, and that's not even counting the dead who so reliably vote Democrat, or unions who are solidly engaged in a long-term circle-jerk with the Donks.
Ah! So they do give a shit about something!
So...what to do?
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these are some of the ideas I've been working on. Admittedly it's starting small. develop a network of people that care. start with writing letters to our reps, have it organized enough that all the letters concern the same topic, say Obamacare. stay focused stay on the same topic keep building the network everybody write one or two letters or calls a day. If enough people scream about the same issue it will get changed. A politicians only concern is to be re-elected. With the 2014 mid terms coming up the ones that are up are scared and can be swayed. keep that network focused on one thing at a time until things are changed. Don't worry about social issues only focus on big ticket items.
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these are some of the ideas I've been working on. Admittedly it's starting small. develop a network of people that care. start with writing letters to our reps, have it organized enough that all the letters concern the same topic, say Obamacare. stay focused stay on the same topic keep building the network everybody write one or two letters or calls a day. If enough people scream about the same issue it will get changed. A politicians only concern is to be re-elected. With the 2014 mid terms coming up the ones that are up are scared and can be swayed. keep that network focused on one thing at a time until things are changed. Don't worry about social issues only focus on big ticket items.
Look, the last thing I want to do is talk you out doing things to help the conservative cause but there is a root problem.
It is the American people, you can lobby your representatives as much as you like but they tend to have other interests. It's the people that matter and near as I can tell the people kinda like the Government freebies. So I suppose the job is how does one explain to the folkes that free money is a bad thing. That, I think is the task but I have no answers on how to be effective at that.
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Also pressing for recall elections for reps such as Lindsay Graham, Marco Rubio, John Boehner, and John McCain should be a top priority
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yeah...so am I.
The Internet makes it easy.
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It is a sad commentary that a basic principle of human nature is that an empty bag is gripped ever tighter when it is suggested that the bag might indeed be empty. As a bonus you generate resentment and malice for such a suggestion.