Author Topic: ok, what would you do?  (Read 5645 times)

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Offline Hathcock

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ok, what would you do?
« on: July 02, 2013, 12:47:55 PM »
Our government is broken, they no longer even try to hide the corruption. Our president is only presiding over scandals. What would you do to get the attention of our self serving politicians, don't just say vote them out, we did that in the 2010 mid terms and nothing has changed, Articles of impeachment and spending bills originate in Congress and Obama is still getting all the money he wants and there are no articles of impeachment. They hold their committees on the scandals but do nothing for fear they won't be re-elected. So the question is... how would you change things?
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline CG6468

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 12:51:56 PM »
A new civil war may come soon. No politician listens to us, and it's time to change that. Politics was never intended to be a CAREER!
Illinois, south of the gun controllers in Chi town

Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 01:07:03 PM »
A new civil war may come soon. No politician listens to us, and it's time to change that. Politics was never intended to be a CAREER!

Could citizens effectively fight against our military? Very few have class three weapons (i.e. fully automatic) Granted since the NSA is probably reading this, this is all hypothetical.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline CG6468

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 01:30:02 PM »
Could citizens effectively fight against our military? Very few have class three weapons (i.e. fully automatic) Granted since the NSA is probably reading this, this is all hypothetical.

But how much of our military would be on blammo's side? Most of them hate him, too.
Illinois, south of the gun controllers in Chi town

Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 01:34:50 PM »
I hope that would be the case, I have seen reports that the Obama admin was vetting military leaders to find the ones willing to fire upon citizens if necessary. The upper ranks of the officer corps might be willing to but I'd have a hard time believing the enlisted ranks would.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 03:32:57 PM »
It's a mistake to assume the senior military leadership is not behind the President, no matter how bad he may suck.  The stars are all politically-approved appointments (Not just for the first star, but for every promotion and new appointment to a position), both by the sitting Administration and by the Senate.  They might balk at executing particularly weird or extreme orders, but it would be completely outside their box to actually turn on the President or SecDef.  The values are not 100% in accord with the values of the rank and file, and the rank and file is as unlikely to actually turn on the generals as the generals are to turn on the President.

In other words, things will probably get a lot worse before they get any better, we're in a period where the failings of popular democracy are coming to the fore over its advantages, and the best thing to do for the individual is to disengage from the looming disaster as much as possible.
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That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

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Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 04:01:46 PM »
I am coming up with an escape plan just in case, I love my country but not the direction it's headed. I have kids and have to consider what kind of future they would have in a socialist nation.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 08:01:18 PM »
I am coming up with an escape plan just in case, I love my country but not the direction it's headed. I have kids and have to consider what kind of future they would have in a socialist nation.
There is no escape. There is no refuge for us to flee too.
The rest of the world may flee to freedom in America. There is no place that will offer us shelter. Europe is falling faster than we are.


This is it. the last stand for freedom on Earth.

Offline vesta111

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 08:22:15 PM »
It's a mistake to assume the senior military leadership is not behind the President, no matter how bad he may suck.  The stars are all politically-approved appointments (Not just for the first star, but for every promotion and new appointment to a position), both by the sitting Administration and by the Senate.  They might balk at executing particularly weird or extreme orders, but it would be completely outside their box to actually turn on the President or SecDef.  The values are not 100% in accord with the values of the rank and file, and the rank and file is as unlikely to actually turn on the generals as the generals are to turn on the President.

In other words, things will probably get a lot worse before they get any better, we're in a period where the failings of popular democracy are coming to the fore over its advantages, and the best thing to do for the individual is to disengage from the looming disaster as much as possible.

We have seen so far senior enlisted short by 4-6  years of retirement refused to be  re enlisted.  Sad an E8 with 16 years in, a perfect record and commendations up the Butt suddenly finding themselves a civilian, loss of medical care for the family, base housing and commissary privileges, no retirement and they are 40+ years old now trying to understand what the Hell happened.

I have no problem with the young officers that get the boot, these are the college educated, and are under 30.

My problem is with the old timers that have made the military their lives since they were 18-19 and excelled at their work.    Gone for months or even a year from their family's at times and still hung in there due to the promiss of retirement and a chance to finally get to know their family.

Nothing new here, back in 1980 when there were too many people for too few jobs a lot of men were refused re upping, they were out of the military as there were too many people in their job or the job was being shut down.    These kids with 4-8 years of service were released from the military and found they could not get unemployment as some how it was considered they had quit their job------Don't ask me how but I heard from a bunch of wives desperate as their husbands serving on the Nimitz were  frantic about what was going on.-----

A long time ago so I may have forgotten all the incidents back then but times were a mess.

BUT I do remember 1970 when the military had some big cuts due to Nixon [the bastard] and seeing what he had cut from our boys coming into Honolulu. Tippler Hospital on the hill where I spent a lot of time due to pregnancy and kidney failure.

Planes landing all the time bringing these kids with no legs or arms back from Asia, horrid. ----Little support, we had to  cart our IV stands up two floors and help the kids write home and most of these kids were only 3-4 years younger then us woman.

Sorry about the spelling, thinking back on what was then that is the same as now after all these years,
seems that life stays under the same name  regardless what the name change is.



Offline DefiantSix

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 08:37:03 PM »
Could citizens effectively fight against our military? Very few have class three weapons (i.e. fully automatic) Granted since the NSA is probably reading this, this is all hypothetical.

Obama's own pettiness is going to come back to haunt him in this regard. Think about it: which government service has most taken it in the shorts since February because of sequester? The military, right?

And how is sequester mostly affecting them? Combat arms units are finding their equipment grounded for lack of operating budget at the unit level, or down-checked on maintenance issues for which there is no budget to address. Tack on to that reductions in training hours because the equipment is sitting idle, and all of a sudden, the military isn't looking as monolithic and razor honed as we have grown accustomed to seeing them.

All pre-supposing your hypothetical notion of The Holy Won of Shit-cago employing the military as some sort of counter-insurgency force within our borders (and further pre-supposing the even more hypothetical thought that the military would obey such an order), of course.
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 09:07:06 PM »
Our government is broken, they no longer even try to hide the corruption. Our president is only presiding over scandals. What would you do to get the attention of our self serving politicians, don't just say vote them out, we did that in the 2010 mid terms and nothing has changed, Articles of impeachment and spending bills originate in Congress and Obama is still getting all the money he wants and there are no articles of impeachment. They hold their committees on the scandals but do nothing for fear they won't be re-elected. So the question is... how would you change things?


As far as I am concerned, I'll just keep on keeping on but just for the sake of discussion...

I see plenty of rants(?) like this, always raging against the machine of tyranny, asking or demanding of answers but never an answer is offered by them.

And then we have this...

Quote
I am coming up with an escape plan just in case, I love my country but not the direction it's headed. I have kids and have to consider what kind of future they would have in a socialist nation

So that's *your* plan then?

While you task the rest of us to try to save the democratic experiment you are going to make a run for it? I can't help myself but to be unimpressed by your seriousness. If you are so concerned for the continued existence of this experiment you must have some realistic ideas of what must be done besides, of course, running away.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
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Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 08:08:21 AM »

As far as I am concerned, I'll just keep on keeping on but just for the sake of discussion...

I see plenty of rants(?) like this, always raging against the machine of tyranny, asking or demanding of answers but never an answer is offered by them.

And then we have this...

So that's *your* plan then?

While you task the rest of us to try to save the democratic experiment you are going to make a run for it? I can't help myself but to be unimpressed by your seriousness. If you are so concerned for the continued existence of this experiment you must have some realistic ideas of what must be done besides, of course, running away.
No That is not my "plan" and I don't expect everyone else to solve all of our nations problems for me. I love my country and if people will pull their heads out of their asses and work together to save it I'll do what ever I have to to help, I took an oath to protect the constitution and as far as I'm concerned there is no expiration date on that oath. But if we are a nation are so dead that everyone just turns a blind eye as the US crumbles down around us then what is there to fight for?
This little rant of mine is to look for new ideas to start uniting the people around me, to possibly start attracting attention to the fact that there are people willing to change things. it has to start somewhere.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2013, 08:12:05 AM »
No That is not my "plan" and I don't expect everyone else to solve all of our nations problems for me. I love my country and if people will pull their heads out of their asses and work together to save it I'll do what ever I have to to help, I took an oath to protect the constitution and as far as I'm concerned there is no expiration date on that oath. But if we are a nation are so dead that everyone just turns a blind eye as the US crumbles down around us then what is there to fight for?
This little rant of mine is to look for new ideas to start uniting the people around me, to possibly start attracting attention to the fact that there are people willing to change things. it has to start somewhere.

So...ya got nuthin.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
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Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2013, 08:17:48 AM »
I have my ideas, I'm involved in local and state level politics. People have to be united somehow, petty social bullshit politics divide us and distract from the real issues our country faces. There has to be a way to overcome the divisions. one reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because he's divided the country more than any other president in history.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2013, 08:25:51 AM »
One reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because something more then half of voters can't be bothered to give a shit one way or the other.

There is your problem, you can lead a horse to water and whatnot.

Here is a suggestion, which I might add you have not made one, just let it burn and then maybe some folkes will wake up.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2013, 08:29:55 AM »
I would rather fight for it while it's worth saving, I don't want my kids and grandkids go through the two or three generations of socialism before that fails miserably for everyone to decide they want to be free.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2013, 08:31:46 AM »
I would rather fight for it while it's worth saving, I don't want my kids and grandkids go through the two or three generations of socialism before that fails miserably for everyone to decide they want to be free.

So...still, ya got nuthin.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2013, 08:36:10 AM »
I have my ideas, I'm involved in local and state level politics. People have to be united somehow, petty social bullshit politics divide us and distract from the real issues our country faces. There has to be a way to overcome the divisions. one reason Obama has been so successful in destroying this country is because he's divided the country more than any other president in history.


I think it's going to come down to state and local politicians telling the federal ones to go to hell and standing by that decision to bring about any changes in the federal government.....take back those rights reserved to the states.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline Rebel

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2013, 08:39:42 AM »
I think it's going to come down to state and local politicians telling the federal ones to go to hell and standing by that decision to bring about any changes in the federal government.....take back those rights reserved to the states.

That's exactly what it's gonna take. Problem Hathcock and I have is we have two ****ing RINO's in the seats that are supposed to be representing the state. You have one across the river as well. Shambles, Isaakson, and Graham need to ****ing go yesterday.
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Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2013, 08:39:55 AM »
I'm trying to create a plan, but mostly what I get are people like you that want to just "keep on keeping on". The time for that is past. Step up get in the game help develop a plan instead of criticizing people who admit they don't have the answers and hope that there is something to learn from asking others.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2013, 08:51:48 AM »
That's exactly what it's gonna take. Problem Hathcock and I have is we have two ****ing RINO's in the seats that are supposed to be representing the state. You have one across the river as well. Shambles, Isaakson, and Graham need to ****ing go yesterday.


Not to mention we have nothing in Congress, one of our reps thinks Guam will tip over into the ocean.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2013, 08:54:08 AM »
I'm trying to create a plan, but mostly what I get are people like you that want to just "keep on keeping on". The time for that is past. Step up get in the game help develop a plan instead of criticizing people who admit they don't have the answers and hope that there is something to learn from asking others.

Well, you got my suggestion.

Find a way to make people give a shit but I haven't seen a way to do that beyond letting the people sit in their mess.

Rebs got it right but it's such a tenuous thing ain't it? Even if it goes back to states rights what's to say the the people of the states will get it right? You must get the attention of the people right, so what is the best way to do that? Give them shit, obamaphones, free money and whatnot. That's what the other side is doing right.

What we have to offer is hard, you gotta get off your ass to get anything done, who is going to want that?  
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2013, 08:58:23 AM »
That's exactly what it's gonna take. Problem Hathcock and I have is we have two ****ing RINO's in the seats that are supposed to be representing the state. You have one across the river as well. Shambles, Isaakson, and Graham need to ****ing go yesterday.

What does it take, or better question, can a senator be impeached and for what reasons? Graham certainly does not have the best interest of the people of SC at heart.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline Hathcock

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2013, 09:14:21 AM »
Find a way to make people give a shit but I haven't seen a way to do that beyond letting the people sit in their mess.

Rebs got it right but it's such a tenuous thing ain't it? Even if it goes back to states rights what's to say the the people of the states will get it right? You must get the attention of the people right, so what is the best way to do that? Give them shit, obamaphones, free money and whatnot. That's what the other side is doing right.

What we have to offer is hard, you gotta get off your ass to get anything done, who is going to want that?  

I think enough people still give a shit, problem is getting them united and headed in the same direction. State level something has to be done to make politicians fear us not us fear them. The best was to help someone is to make them uncomfortable enough to change their situation.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes: if you **** with me, I'll kill you all! - USMC General James Mattis.

Offline CG6468

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Re: ok, what would you do?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 09:18:05 AM »
Illinois is way too far gone to ever fully recover.
Illinois, south of the gun controllers in Chi town