The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: mrclose on February 08, 2013, 06:59:22 PM
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The King has Declared ..
Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has declared a state of emergency for blizzard that could bring near 3 feet of snow.
Patrick signed an executive order banning all vehicles from roadways starting at 4 p.m. today. Ban applies to all roadways, including highways and secondary roads. Any one caught driving after 4 p.m. faces up to one year in jail and $500 fine.
Patrick said the blizzard is “a profoundly different kind of storm than we have dealt with†and the projected snowfall rate of two to three inches per hour will “make safe travel nearly impossible.â€
http://www.eagletribune.com/breakingnews/x1525012659/Mass-bans-vehicles-at-4-p-m-offenders-face-fine-up-to-500-1-year-in-jail
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Being from Illinois, I have seen roads "officially closed" many times, but never before a storm hits, and I've never heard of cars or trucks being banned with threats of fines and jail time.
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This is ridiculous.
KC
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This is ridiculous.
KC
This is liberalism in action.
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We are to stupid to take care of ourselves.
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So who will be out on the roads enforcing these laws if no one is suppose to be on the roads after 4pm?
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Being from Illinois, I have seen roads "officially closed" many times, but never before a storm hits, and I've never heard of cars or trucks being banned with threats of fines and jail time.
Me either. Even during the really bad Chicago snows.
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So who will be out on the roads enforcing these laws if no one is suppose to be on the roads after 4pm?
(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4790852180706934&pid=1.7)
I'm sure glad they bought those billions of rounds of ammo.
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When you're running a bunch of sheep, it helps to kind of practice some moves with them once in a while. Remind them what it is to move as a group and pay attention to you. If you leave sheep alone too long they kind of wander into trouble.
Closing the roads before a storm even starts? Definitely a sheep drill.
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When you're running a bunch of sheep, it helps to kind of practice some moves with them once in a while. Remind them what it is to move as a group and pay attention to you. If you leave sheep alone too long they kind of wander into trouble.
Closing the roads before a storm even starts? Definitely a sheep drill.
It's kind of one of those small steps to see how much curtailing of freedoms people will put up with.
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You can’t blame Gov. Deval Patrick for not wanting to pull a Michael Dukakis.
In the blizzard of 1978, the state was woefully unprepared for the massive storm. Gov. Dukakis did issue a travel ban but it came too late — after dozens died and thousands were stranded on the roads.
So now Patrick tries to prevent deaths by banning cars on the road and he gets trashed by critics who say it’s an example of government gone too far.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/joe_battenfeld/2013/02/deval_patrick_does_it_right
A few years back we had a really bad storm that started midday. Coupe Deval told people the day before to not go to work, but if you go to work then leave early before storm hits.
No one paid him any attention (including schools). Folks left work as the storm was hitting and 20 minute commutes turned into 6 hour commutes (with ice being a HUGE factor inside the 495 beltway). Deval was crucified for that as plows were not on the roads due to the gridlock on the highways, and his idiotic comments were along the lines of "I told you to go home."
He wasn't reliving that. The fact is people are stupid. They believe themselves to be invincible. They clog the highways and roads so plows cannot get through. This is a very bad storm. I have 3 feet of snow in my driveway, and it is still snowing. The wind is howling. The worst of the storm was 6 p.m. through 6 a.m. this morning.
I have no problem with this at all.
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http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/joe_battenfeld/2013/02/deval_patrick_does_it_right
A few years back we had a really bad storm that started midday. Coupe Deval told people the day before to not go to work, but if you go to work then leave early before storm hits.
No one paid him any attention (including schools). Folks left work as the storm was hitting and 20 minute commutes turned into 6 hour commutes (with ice being a HUGE factor inside the 495 beltway). Deval was crucified for that as plows were not on the roads due to the gridlock on the highways, and his idiotic comments were along the lines of "I told you to go home."
He wasn't reliving that. The fact is people are stupid. They believe themselves to be invincible. They clog the highways and roads so plows cannot get through. This is a very bad storm. I have 3 feet of snow in my driveway, and it is still snowing. The wind is howling. The worst of the storm was 6 p.m. through 6 a.m. this morning.
I have no problem with this at all.
Fines and jail?
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:popcorn:
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Fines and jail?
Fines would happen - jail? only if it caused a major accident, I would imagine.
The roads were completely empty, so the threat of this clearly worked. :afro:
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Yeah, sure, Patrick is a dick and all that, and I don't like him, but I see nothing wrong with what he did here.
The blunt fact of the matter is that hordes of people--think "primitives"--can be really stupid at times, and need corralled in.
If they aren't fenced in, they believe they're invincible and do all sorts of stupid things.....and we taxpayers pick up a pretty big tab for search and rescue and recovery.
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We have had that problem of stranded cars blocking the roads here in Co just about every time there is a major snow storm. Pena Blvd,which leads to Denver International, was closed for a few days while they tried to remove the cars so they could plow the road.
People are indeed too stupid not to go out when they don't need to, someone has to watch out for the idiots.
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Yeah, sure, Patrick is a dick and all that, and I don't like him, but I see nothing wrong with what he did here.
The blunt fact of the matter is that hordes of people--think "primitives"--can be really stupid at times, and need corralled in.
If they aren't fenced in, they believe they're invincible and do all sorts of stupid things.....and we taxpayers pick up a pretty big tab for search and rescue and recovery.
Very very true. H5.
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We have had that problem of stranded cars blocking the roads here in Co just about every time there is a major snow storm. Pena Blvd,which leads to Denver International, was closed for a few days while they tried to remove the cars so they could plow the road.
People are indeed too stupid not to go out when they don't need to, someone has to watch out for the idiots.
Exactly.
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I still strongly disagree with it. You warn people then leave them to their own devices. If they get into trouble then they pay.
I don't believe it is the governments job to save us from ourselves and you will never be able to legislate stupidity.
KC
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Exactly.
Examples have been few and far between, but I've lived long enough to know of law-enforcement and rescue personnel dying to save some stupid idiot in lousy weather, and even more getting seriously injured trying to do it.
Not to mention the property damage (to both the property of idiots and of other people).
I'm for "freedom" just as strongly as anybody else, but with it comes a sense of responsibility to society (in this case, the taxpayers) as a whole. In times of bad weather, one shouldn't be out and about, lest one be a liability to society (i.e., the taxpayers).
In fact, I see nothing at all wrong with, if it's as bad as it apparently was in Massachusetts last night, ordering the shut-down of sales of alcohol, of places where people congregate (such as theaters and shopping malls), and of commercial deliveries.
It's not like a "snow emergency" lasts forever; one can sit still for a while.
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I still strongly disagree with it. You warn people then leave them to their own devices. If they get into trouble then they pay.
I don't believe it is the governments job to save us from ourselves and you will never be able to legislate stupidity.
KC
(http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2013/02/06/weather%20forecast%20new%20england%20winter%20storm%20blizzard%20boston%20new%20york%20february%202013%20weekend%20friday%20saturday%20noreaster%20BOSTON%20GLOBE.JPG)
This is what happens when plows can't get through. I just read a half dozen local articles where police chiefs stated that had no means to enforce this anyway - the threat kept the idiots off the road.
No one died. No stranded vehicles. Police and first responders were able to respond to true emergencies and not ones caused by idiots making very bad choices at the detriment of others.
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(http://www.erh.noaa.gov/cle/wx_events/Blizzard78/blizzard/blizpic2.jpg)
Good times.
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I still strongly disagree with it. You warn people then leave them to their own devices. If they get into trouble then they pay.
I don't believe it is the governments job to save us from ourselves and you will never be able to legislate stupidity.
KC
While i don't agree with jailing people for this I understand why he doesn't want folks on the road. The problem here Tex is that you are not just putting yourself at risk but others as well. 3 feet of snow is very difficult to remove when you have a bunch of obstinate morons out driving around getting in the way.It can also be dangerous for the plow drivers too.The funny thing is its always the obstinate folks who are the first to bitch when the roads aren't cleared to their satisfaction never realizing they were part of the reason that it wasn't.I have first hand experience with this living in the mitten all my life! :cheersmate:
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(http://www.erh.noaa.gov/cle/wx_events/Blizzard78/blizzard/blizpic2.jpg)
Good times.
Yep! remember that storm too well!
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It's just been pointed out to me (here in real life) that with the advent and popularity of cellular telephones around here, fatalities, injuries, and property damage (to other people) from idiots driving around in bad weather have gone up.
Anecdotal information only; I have no idea how to check it out.
Around here, because we're so sparsely populated, if an idiot was out on the roads when he shouldn't have been, well, tough luck for the idiot; he'd just have to freeze to death, no great loss to the rest of us.
Well, now with cellular telephones, the idiot can summon help that comes to rescue him at the risk of life and limb and tremendous public expense.
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I figured the threat of fines and jail is all that some people understand.
Being told to stay off the roads in a major blizzard is just reiterating common sense to the majority of us.
Being told to stay off the roads in a major blizzard or be fined or possible jail, is what idiots need to be told. Because if they aren't off the roads, those are the people the first responders are out looking for when they go off the road. If the idiot isn't rescued, there is an attorney at the ready to sue the city, county, state, federal governments for "endangering the idiot" and not rescuing them.
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Oh, I completely understand the 'why' of the directive. Believe me I get it. I just disagree with it.
While I dislike the Westburro Baptist Church folks I would never support a directive to ban them in any way.
This, to me is a slippery slope I'm not willing to go down. If these kinds of things are allowed why ... We could possibly see warrant less searches in high crime areas. Hmmm not a bad idea until it comes to a neighborhood near you.
These things have a tendency to grow if allowed. This is simply my opinion.
KC
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This, to me is a slippery slope I'm not willing to go down. If these kinds of things are allowed why ... We could possibly see warrant less searches in high crime areas. Hmmm not a bad idea until it comes to a neighborhood near you.
These things have a tendency to grow if allowed. This is simply my opinion.
That's very true, and we have to look out for this.
But in this instance, I doubt the flatulent governor of Massachusetts is going to make a practice of shutting things down; the public won't stand for it.
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Some of you make a good argument for why the ban needed to be in place (stupid people putting others in harms way).
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Meanwhile in Suffolk County NY...
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/65560_10151332625733551_102129859_n.jpg)
http://longisland.news12.com/news/storm-leaves-cars-stranded-across-suffolk-county-1.4598641?firstfree=yes
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How much of this have we created? If there were no safety nets how many people would take the chance?
Let's remove the safety nets and see what happens. You either succeed or you fail on your own. It might take a bit for people to get it but once you've culled a few idiots I think you would have a different nation.
KC
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Let's remove the safety nets and see what happens. You either succeed or you fail on your own. It might take a bit for people to get it but once you've culled a few idiots I think you would have a different nation.
I'm all in favor of that, going back to the way it was before cellular telephones came into use, and if one had been stupid and gotten into trouble, well, there was nothing that could be done, as one couldn't contact anybody.
However, we're now to where the tender consciences of law-enforcement and medical personnel won't let them live with themselves if they ignore a call for help, even if they must answer such summonses at great risk and peril to their own lives and limbs, and great expense to the taxpayers.
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I was just listening to the Mayor of Hartford begging people to stay home and off the roads. He said their biggest problem right now are stalled and abandoned cars and trying to clear them off the roads before they can begin to plow them.
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I just emailed my cousin in Concord, MA, to see how they were doing.
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I would be more about warning the massholes to stay off the road and then create extra income for the tow trucks by allowing them to triple charge anyone dumb enough to be on the road after the warning.
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I haven't been paying attention to much news over the past 24 hours.
How bad was the storm?
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How much of this have we created? If there were no safety nets how many people would take the chance?
Let's remove the safety nets and see what happens. You either succeed or you fail on your own. It might take a bit for people to get it but once you've culled a few idiots I think you would have a different nation.
KC
I think formerlurker answered your question in the post prior to yours. You may not have seen it....
Meanwhile in Suffolk County NY...
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/65560_10151332625733551_102129859_n.jpg)
http://longisland.news12.com/news/storm-leaves-cars-stranded-across-suffolk-county-1.4598641?firstfree=yes
It will take an awful lot of manpower = money to clear this road....
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Here's a pic of their home that my cousin sent me from Concord, MA.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/lowfreeboard/IMG_6143.jpg)
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When I was a kid we lived about 5 or 6 miles outside of town in a much smaller town. I don't remember the roads ever being closed for more than a night at them most. Snowplows would start after an inch or so and they would run continuously until the snow stopped. I've never seen a road blocked by cars stuck in the snow blocking the plows.
Many times out in the small town it was a neighbor with a plow on their pick doing the side roads or if worse came to worse, someone would break out a front end loader if the snow got too deep.
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I think formerlurker answered your question in the post prior to yours. You may not have seen it....
It will take an awful lot of manpower = money to clear this road....
No ma'am, I saw that but it doesn't address my question.
In essence how many of those would have ventured out had they known there was no safety net? My guess is very few. If we removed all safety nets we would see a lot less foolishness in my opinion, in all areas.
KC
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The blunt fact of the matter is that hordes of people--think "primitives"--can be really stupid at times, and need corralled in.
Absolutely, Lowest Common Denominator. But, the last thing I am going to do, if I know a winter storm is coming -and how can you not- is to blame a feckless politician for not telling me a storm is coming. I'm too busy filling up the Grand Cherokee, PMCS*-ing the winch and making damn sure there are 4 cases of beer in cold stash. Food? pffffttt.......
* - Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services for the non-military types..
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No ma'am, I saw that but it doesn't address my question.
In essence how many of those would have ventured out had they known there was no safety net? My guess is very few. If we removed all safety nets we would see a lot less foolishness in my opinion, in all areas.
KC
I don't believe they had a safety net. They just walked away from their vehicles. The vehicles remained on the road, with the local authorities now responsible for their towing - unless you think that is a safety net.
I wouldn't agree, as the vehicles have to come off the road. They will be towed, there will be a $$ fine for that regardless to collect their vehicles.
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How much of this have we created? If there were no safety nets how many people would take the chance?
Let's remove the safety nets and see what happens. You either succeed or you fail on your own. It might take a bit for people to get it but once you've culled a few idiots I think you would have a different nation.
KC
I'd give you another H5 for this but I have to wait an hour
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We have had that problem of stranded cars blocking the roads here in Co just about every time there is a major snow storm. Pena Blvd,which leads to Denver International, was closed for a few days while they tried to remove the cars so they could plow the road.
People are indeed too stupid not to go out when they don't need to, someone has to watch out for the idiots.
I still can't believe they named that road after him. I still throw up in my mouth every time I get the visual of him wearing those Colorado flag running shorts back in the 80's (think SHORT running shorts.)
Ugh.
And FWIW, in an urban area, it doesn't take much to jack EVERYTHING up. I used to tell my friends when I lived back in CA that I didn't need a nuclear weapon, all I needed was a dozen stalled cars and I'd rule LA.
I don't like the idea that people are being "ordered" to stay off the roads, but then again, only the threat (and actual implementation) of jail and fines seems to slow some idiots down, and even then, not all of them.
For the record, coming home today was EASY compared to what was expected. Most roads from Conway south were clear and dry. The only "rough" roads were the ones in the North Country (north of Conway, esp. Route 2) but even those had been plowed/sanded a couple of times at least.
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I still strongly disagree with it. You warn people then leave them to their own devices. If they get into trouble then they pay.
I don't believe it is the governments job to save us from ourselves and you will never be able to legislate stupidity.
KC
The biggest idiots are usually the ones bleating first/loudest for help. A couple of years ago, NH implemented a program where people who got lost/trapped out in the woods, etc., due to their own neglect/ill preparation, could be charged for the cost of their rescue. It only happened a few times in the first couple of years, but two themes seem to be recurring:
--The people were unfamiliar with the territory they were in and unprepared for it.
--ALCOHOL. No kidding. It amazes me how many people get toasted and wander away from camp and even if only a couple hundred yards away, how friggin lost they can get.
And when you put people at risk to find/save your dumb ass after you've been told not to do something, (or something you SHOULD know better than doing), well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Some of you make a good argument for why the ban needed to be in place (stupid people putting others in harms way).
Long--having lived in Gillette, Green River, and just over the border in ID, I know there have been plenty of times I-80 and I-90 have been shut down, complete with the gates going across the Interstate being closed and a state trooper just the other side of it to turn back idiots who try to "run" the gate.
So no, this isn't really anything new, even in supposed "red" states.
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I haven't been paying attention to much news over the past 24 hours.
How bad was the storm?
Bad enough. Just over a foot at the cabin we rented this weekend, but over two feet here at home. Fortunately, we didn't lose power, although over 400K in MA did. Way to go, National Grid.
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No ma'am, I saw that but it doesn't address my question.
In essence how many of those would have ventured out had they known there was no safety net? My guess is very few. If we removed all safety nets we would see a lot less foolishness in my opinion, in all areas.
KC
That's like asking how many liberals would be in favor of gun control if they knew the cops were 3-4 hours away, if they were even able to dial 911 at all.
And no, there will ALWAYS be those who think "It can't happen to me!" idiots. They are truly EVERYWHERE. They're just a little more concentrated in urban areas.