The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: EagleKeeper on October 02, 2012, 09:27:39 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251114760
Understanding that primitives don't usually speak about things that might hinder the Ones chances for re-election I was surprised this is being discussed.
Of course it's for all the wrong reasons and, as usual, they lie.
TroyD (1,659 posts)
Did Lockheed Martin Just Win Virginia for Obama?
By John Hudson | The Atlantic Wire – 14 hrs ago
It's difficult to understate the importance of Lockheed Martin's latest announcement on the race for the White House: the defense contractor said on Monday it will not be issuing employee layoff notices to 123,000 workers on Nov. 2—just four days before the presidential election. Amidst all of the super PACs and campaign ads, the threat of telling a sizable chunk of voters in key areas of the country that they could lose their jobs if the election didn't go Lockheed's way was one of the most potent examples of corporate electioneering. But the layoff threat was largely unreported outside of Beltway trade publications. Here's why today's announcement matters:
SNIP
In one word: Sequestration, the Congress-approved plan to strip some $500 billion in defense cuts over the next ten years. In June, Lockheed said it would have to issue layoff notices to workers under the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act due to impending Pentagon budget cuts. Lockheed wanted assurances from the government that its contracts wouldn't be affected by sequestration.
SNIP
Do you know where many of Lockheed Martin's employees reside? Virginia, one of the all-important swing states of this election. It's a historically Republican state. In fact, before Obama's 2008 election, had won the state since Lyndon Johnson's 1964 bid. And pretty much all electoral map prognosticators say that if Obama wins both Virginia and Ohio this year, Mitt Romney has practically no chance of winning the presidential race. That's why if one of the biggest employers in the state were to issue layoff notices days ahead of the election, it could be devastating for President Obama.
SNIP
On Friday, the Pentagon issued guidance that promised two important things. "The guidance said the Pentagon did not anticipate killing any contracts on Jan. 2, the day automatic spending cuts are set to begin hitting defense spending," reports "The guidance also said the federal government would cover severance costs that are mandated under a federal layoff notices law." Voila! The next business day, Lockheed Martin announces it will no longer be issuing layoff notices.
http://news.yahoo.com/did-lockheed-martin-just-win-virginia-obama-183231738.html;_ylt=A2KJ3Ca_d2pQyGwA_UrQtDMD
So, the Administration has successfully pressured Lockheed Martin into breaking the WARN Act, put differently it means that Lockheed Martin is breaking the law at the behest of the administration for political reasons and taxpayers will be on the hook to pay damages awarded when they get sued and to pay for legal fees incurred.
So, in the primatives way of thinking it's a net gain.
pitbullgirl1965 (31 posts)
1. So what you're saying
Response to pitbullgirl1965 (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 06:38 AM
is that Lockhead Martin workers will see they are being manipulated and this will make them vote for President Obama? I'm confused. If so, I doubt it. Fools vote against their own interests all the time, and will vote against President Obama because he's a Marxist, Socialist, Nazi black man. They're idiots. That said: I don't give a rats behind about Lockheed, General Dynamics, or any of these defense contractors. It's time to disassemble the Military Industrial Complex.
TroyD (1,659 posts)
2. I basically agree with you (the title is not my own)
Response to pitbullgirl1965 (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 06:38 AM
I just copied the title from the article at the link to reproduce it accurately.
It's simply the opinion of this author and some others that the fact there will now be fewer defense cuts in Virginia than originally anticipated could be beneficial to Obama.
RichGirl (3,216 posts)
4. You assume we are all political.
Response to pitbullgirl1965 (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 07:13 AM
When someone has a family to feed and a mortgage to pay, their priority is getting a pay check each week. Yes, I think if being manipulated means they keep their jobs they'll be happy for it and probably vote for Obama for making it happen.
TroyD (1,659 posts)
5. The military-industrial complex is a danger, though
Response to RichGirl (Reply #4)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 07:20 AM
<Link to some video about Ike warrning about the MIC>
DCBob (13,600 posts)
6. If thousands of workers think they are going to be laid off in a few months..
Response to pitbullgirl1965 (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 07:21 AM
they will blame the President.. simple as that.
Tom Rinaldo (14,305 posts)
7. I think you are overthinking this
Response to pitbullgirl1965 (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 09:25 AM
The literal moment when a worker receives an actual pink slip is like a blow to the gut. Until then it doesn't feel 't completely real that their job is ending. 125,000 Virginians of voting age were "scheduled" to receive pink slips 4 days before the election, now they won't. Everything else is analysis and spin is an election season awash with it anyway.
DCBob (13,600 posts)
3. I wonder if the other defense contractors will do the same.
Response to TroyD (Original post)
Tue Oct 2, 2012, 07:04 AM
Yes, this is big news and could impact VA race as well as other states that have large employmnet in the defense industry.
So to sum up, it's all about the light worker...screw the employees. And a pResident that is all about ignoring a law if it dosn't benefit him or his chances at getting re-elected and the primitives are on board with all that.
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Obama is breaking the law, between this and Fast and Furious? it's disgusting. The only good thing is ABC News reported this, you should read the comments section.
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I *think* this is what you are refering to.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/at-white-house-request-lockheed-martin-drops-plan-to-issue-layoff-notices/
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I *think* this is what you are refering to.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/at-white-house-request-lockheed-martin-drops-plan-to-issue-layoff-notices/
Yes!
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IF I were to do this it would be called Conspiracy to commit a crime and fraud. I would go to jail but not if you are the first black president. Welcome to the third world where nations are of men and not of laws.
I really don't think this will help much because every Lock-Mart employee knows that there job will be gone if Obama wins. Obama does not believe in the one thing the Constitution mandates, common defense. Obama already cut $500 billion from defense on his own. Obama came right in and cancelled the F22 production. Anybody that thought they were getting a layoff notice is going to be laid off if Obama wins. That is a done deal.
As to Lock-Mart thinking that they can believe anything the HNIC says indicates that they should be fired.
My take:
Lock-mart does not send out layoff notices as the WARN act demands.
Lock-mart gets taken to court for huge sums by the unions and the feds.
Lock-mart gets no help from the feds because Obama lies, he lies all the time.
Obama tells Lock-mart that there is nothing he can do because their lack of actions was against the WARN Act.
Lock-mart gets screwed for hundreds of millions that get redistributed to the unions.
See also: pharmaceutical companies, gulf oil companies, gulf communities...
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Obama is basically telling the defense companies that the U.S. Government will defray the costs of laying these people off it they don't issue an announcement that was required by law of impending layoffs due to sequestration. The Obama administration has apparently changed the guidance rules in order to make this look legal but violates the spirit of the law if not the letter of the law and he does this for political gain. If he gets re-elected and congress votes not to pay the defense contractors the money that Obama has promised then they (the defense contractors) will be screwed along with the workers who will get little notice of their impending unemployment. The unemployment rates will rise but what does Obama care? He got what he wanted so screw the rest.
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From the ABC blog, I liked this comment.
Like every employee working for a defense contractor doesn’t know their job is in limbo. Let’s don’t send out the notices and maybe they won’t notice. Good grief. Let’s cover up Libya. Let’s cover up Fast & Furious. Heck, now let’s be even a little more cruel and not let folks have their 60 day notice…all to keep this dude in office. OB, don’t you know that when you try to keep something from folks it just makes them more suspicious ….. and nervous. Sinister on your part, OB. Not like they are not talking about this mess around their dinner tables.
This is absolutely outrageous. And do they think people that work at Lockheed Martin are so stupid they won’t see this in the news?
Well they're DUmmies, and DUmmies never think things through.
Wake up Virgina, Obama tells defense contractors to hold off giving you pink slips until after the election. (which is against the law).
Obama tells hospitals they will be fined heavily if they re-admit Medicare patients to soon back into the hospital. Advantage policies will be taken away after the election. Rationing will start. Wake up Seniors!
Biggest tax increase in our history to begin in Jan. 2013 for all, middle class too. But of course none of this starts until after the election. Wake up people!
Yes, even the poorest among us will be dealt a swift and cruel blow. That means YOU, DUmmies.
No……Obama will have the taxpayers pay their fine for breaking the law??????
What kind of dictatorship do we now have, anyway??????
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DUmmies TomRinaldo and DCBob seem to have a much more realistic appreciation of the situation than the rest of the idiots in that thread. Lousy Freeper Trolls!!!111!!!
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I kind of see Lockheed Martin's statement as a two edged sword. On the one hand, they are saying that they aren't sending out layoff notices, but OTOH they are letting their employees know that layoffs are in the pipeline if sequestration goes into to effect.
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Should we be surprised ? I mean the only thing Barry Big Ears likes best is spending other peoples money and this is a damn good way to do it while getting votes in Nov.
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BTW, you can leave a comment at the ABC link without registering.
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I kind of see Lockheed Martin's statement as a two edged sword. On the one hand, they are saying that they aren't sending out layoff notices, but OTOH they are letting their employees know that layoffs are in the pipeline if sequestration goes into to effect.
That's fine I suppose, I have to figure that the employees know what the deal is.
What I don't understand is the administration openly calling for companies to break the law and telling them that the govenment will defray the costs of ensuing litigation for overtly political purposes.
How can they get away with this? And of course the DUmmies are ok with it!
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That's fine I suppose, I have to figure that the employees know what the deal is.
What I don't understand is the administration openly calling for companies to break the law and telling them that the govenment will defray the costs of ensuing litigation for overtly political purposes.
How can they get away with this? And of course the DUmmies are ok with it!
Fox News has been covering this somewhat, but not as much as I'd like. Several GOP congressmen have also been trying to call attention to it.
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I kind of see Lockheed Martin's statement as a two edged sword. On the one hand, they are saying that they aren't sending out layoff notices, but OTOH they are letting their employees know that layoffs are in the pipeline if sequestration goes into to effect.
I think they purposefully painted the Kenyan rookie into a corner.
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This situation is a prime example of his 4 year reign. Everywhere you look there is uncertainty and distrust of this government. I have been feeling like we have been free falling since January 2009.
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This situation is a prime example of his 4 year reign. Everywhere you look there is uncertainty and distrust of this government. I have been feeling like we have been free falling since January 2009.
Most businesses feel the same way and that is why there hasn't been more of a recovery following the recession.
A few economists think Obama is causing another recession to happen soon.
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Do you know that Jay Carney is denying any of this ever happened? :mental: "White House never pressured..." What the **** do they think they're trying to get away with here??
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Nobody who works at Lockheed Martin would vote for obumble anyway.
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Nobody who works at Lockheed Martin would vote for obumble anyway.
because union workers love Romney so much?
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because union workers love Romney so much?
Do you work at Lockheed and/or do you know what the workers are thinking about this.
Asked differently, do you think the workers at Lockheed are comfortable with what is going on?
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Do you work at Lockheed and/or do you know what the workers are thinking about this.
Asked differently, do you think the workers at Lockheed are comfortable with what is going on?
My dad worked at lockheed for a long time so I know a bit about the people that work there. My point was they employ a lot of union workers and we know that union workers usually vote democrat whether or not its in their best interest.
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My dad worked at lockheed for a long time so I know a bit about the people that work there. My point was they employ a lot of union workers and we know that union workers usually vote democrat whether or not its in their best interest.
I call BS, just look at the coal miners.
They see that this pResident is working to kill their jobs, they ain't the stupid sheep that you would have us believe.
My dad drove a delivery truck for wonder bread, hell when I was a kid I stood on the union lines during strikes.
Does that give me any insight on what they were thinking?...No, please.
Do you really think that the workers at Lockheed don't see what is going on? (I think that this is the 2nd time I've asked this)
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DUmbass -
If anything, LM just secured a win for 'RMoney' by making it clear that Democrats will ignore laws as they see fit. - And as a reminder to you goons - WARN is a Democrat born & bred initiative.
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because union workers love Romney so much?
They actually have few union workers. Most of "them" got laid off when hussein killed the F22.
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Do you really think that the workers at Lockheed don't see what is going on? (I think that this is the 2nd time I've asked this)
You can ask it until the cows come home its not going to make it any more relevant, the majority of union workers will vote democrat even if they think/know Obama trying to screw them over.
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You can ask it until the cows come home its not going to make it any more relevant, the majority of union workers will vote democrat even if they think/know Obama trying to screw them over.
Oh, I agree with you. Most Lockheed employees these days are white collar high tech types. Especially in Virginia.
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I will ask it until the cows come home. :bird:
The coal miners seem to be having a problem with what this administration is doing, do you disagree with that?
While I would agree that folkes tend to vote their best interest what you are saying is that these same folkes cannot see that "interest" when it is the administration doing it.
I don't know why you are making this arguement other then projection and that's fine but people know when they are getting screwed and when it comes as close to home as their paycheck, and it is political, they see it.
Although you may not.
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I will ask it until the cows come home. :bird:
The coal miners seem to be having a problem with what this administration is doing, do you disagree with that?
While I would agree that folkes tend to vote their best interest what you are saying is that these same folkes cannot see that "interest" when it is the administration doing it.
I don't know why you are making this arguement other then projection and that's fine but people know when they are getting screwed and when it comes as close to home as their paycheck, and it is political, they see it.
Although you may not.
Seeing it and voting against it are two very different things
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Seeing it and voting against it are two very different things
Seriously, is that all you got?
I can say the same thing about just about anything.
Are you ignoring the coal miners?
So, I know that Obama is going to kill my job but what the heck, Id rather obama get elected then keep my job. Because, you know, it's important and whatnot.
I still say you are full of it, just because one is a member of a union does not make one check the democratic check box by default.
One might look at Wisconsin.
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Seriously, is that all you got?
I can say the same thing about just about anything.
Are you ignoring the coal miners?
So, I know that Obama is going to kill my job but what the heck, Id rather obama get elected then keep my job. Because, you know, it's important and whatnot.
I still say you are full of it, just because one is a member of a union does not make one check the democratic check box by default.
One might look at Wisconsin.
You mean where 62% of union households and 71% of union members voted against Walker? I never said all union members vote democrat only that the majority do.
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This is not me...it's from here...
Wisconsin Recall Election Spending Tops $60 Million
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/wisconsin-recall-election-spending-tops-60-million/
So they still lost, what are we to make of this?
The most expensive campaign in the history of the US waged by unions and they lost.
No matter what they did they could not convince the electorate to vote Walker out of office.
Just as an aside, where did you get your numbers?
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I got my first knock in the head about unions in 1983. The first machine I was the project engineer was scheduled to go to Lockheed in Murretta (SP? it was 30 years ago) at the C5A plant. Pretty amazing place. I go to install one of the prototypes and had two union guys to assist me. They did nothing to assist except call an electrician once to get power to the machine and tell me where tools were. Maybe they were playing with the cali-youngster but they sat at their desk, never got up or did a thing. The only way I could tell they were on break was they would read a newspaper for break. At the 15 they folded it and got back to doing nothing.
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Thanks Jukin,
But I think that the deal is that although how dumb and self destructive union members may be they do see the writing on the wall when their jobs are chopping block.
The MIC sees it they are not stupid, their jobs are hanging in the ether and they know it.
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This is not me...it's from here...
Wisconsin Recall Election Spending Tops $60 Million
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/wisconsin-recall-election-spending-tops-60-million/
So they still lost, what are we to make of this?
The most expensive campaign in the history of the US waged by unions and they lost.
No matter what they did they could not convince the electorate to vote Walker out of office.
Just as an aside, where did you get your numbers?
changing your narrative I see, your claim was that bad polices would make union workers see the light
Walker won 38 percent of the vote among members of union households, exit polling shows , roughly reflecting the partisan breakdown among union members.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/05/us/politics/wisconsin-recall-exit-polls.html
democrat union members voted democrat and republican union members voted republican, no one saw the light
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democrat union members voted democrat and republican union members voted republican, no one saw the light
I will take this at face value.
Unions spent 60 million+ to defeat Walker...they lost.
I don't have numbers on how the union vote went, I recon this might not have been a part of exit polling.
I will look at this, stay tuned.
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I will take this at face value.
Unions spent 60 million+ to defeat Walker...they lost.
I don't have numbers on how the union vote went, I recon this might not have been a part of exit polling.
I will look at this, stay tuned.
Unions will spent a lot more to keep Obama in office, they will lose also, but union democrats will still vote for Obama
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This is the first link if you do a search...
wisconsin union exit polling
So this i the first link...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77118.html
Politico is not my first choice for acurate reporting but there it is.
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This is the first link if you do a search...
wisconsin union exit polling
So this i the first link...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77118.html
Politico is not my first choice for acurate reporting but there it is.
from that article which doesnt tell how unions voted only if they favored Walkers policies, there was a link to the ABC page
One-third of voters said they were from union households, up from 26 percent two years ago, and those voters favored Barrett by a broad 62-38 percent. It was about the same margin as Barrett won among union household voters in 2010, although this time there were more of them.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/whatever-walkers-fate-obama-leads-romney-in-wisco/
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Unions will spent a lot more to keep Obama in office, they will lose also, but union democrats will still vote for Obama
Would you please post any evidence you have to support what you are saying.
Anything...At all...you say things but without any substance.
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Eagle Keeper, I used to think that but I see lots of hard leftists willing to cutoff their nose to keep the donks in power. Common sense ain't so common. I hope they vote their economic well being but a large percentage of Jews voted for Hitler. Sometimes people are blinded, especially if they leftists and can't make the leap of what happens two or three steps down the road. I fully think most union people are so indoctrinated that they can't vote their own interests. Now the coal miners have seen what happens, the Lock-Mart people have not, but they will. Hence why so important to not send out the slips.
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Would you please post any evidence you have to support what you are saying.
Anything...At all...you say things but without any substance.
I have already posted the NYT and ABC exit polls showing the unions voting against Walker but you ignore them. The substance is there but you are willfully ignorant to it.
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Jukin, thanks
My point is that I don't think that union members are sewed up by the administration.
Has anyone looked at the right to work states?
How is that working out for the union leaders? Do you think that the unions are in trouble?
I just do not buy that union workers for Lockheed Martin and other contractors buy what is going on in regards to the administration.
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I have already posted the NYT and ABC exit polls showing the unions voting against Walker but you ignore them. The substance is there but you are willfully ignorant to it.
I won't even bother bolding them, it is what it is.
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I won't even bother bolding them, it is what it is.
WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/wisconsin-recall-union-voters--union-households/2012/06/06/gJQA3l6VHV_blog.html)
Exit polls show union voters supported Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett (D) by a 71 to 29 percent margin over Walker.
Fox News (http://nation.foxnews.com/scott-walker/2012/06/06/exit-poll-tea-party-key-walker-win)
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/06/politics/table.wisc.exitpolls/)
National Journal (http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/wisconsin-exit-poll-voters-like-obama-don-t-like-recalls-20120606)
Some observers expected the collective bargaining issue to strike a chord with union members, and while union households voted in greater numbers than they did in 2010, Walker's 38-percent performance among these voters was virtually identical to the 37 percent he won two years ago.
CNSNews (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/38-voters-union-households-voted-walker)
The network exit poll for the special election showed that Walker won the votes of 38 percent of voters who said they were a union member or lived in a household with a union member.
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Ok, lets look at this...
Men were also a crucial Walker voting group and made up half of the electorate today. This is another voting bloc where Walker’s edge ticked up from 2010 (by two percentage point) to 59% over Barrett's 40%.
Men
Barrett 40%
Walker 59%
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/scott-walker/2012/06/06/exit-poll-tea-party-key-walker-win#ixzz28BfrpHZo
First of all.. I'd like to repeate this...
Men were also a crucial Walker voting group and made up half of the electorate today. This is another voting bloc where Walker’s edge ticked up from 2010 (by two percentage point) to 59% over Barrett's 40%.
Oh what the hell, this is a june 5th poll so here we go...
More than half of voters in today’s recall -- 54 percent -- were working class whites. Walker won here as well -- gaining three percentage points from 2010.
Working Class Whites
Barrett 38%
Walker 61%
Thirty-three percent of voters today live in a union household. That’s up from 26% union households in the 2010 election. Even so, that wasn’t enough to help Barrett.
Union Households
Barrett 62%
Walker 38%
A 54-percent majority give Walker a thumbs-up for his handling of job creation.
Walker's Handling Of Job Creation
Approve 54%
Disapprove 45%
In addition, a bare 52-percent majority of voters approves of the new Wisconsin law that limits the ability of government workers to collectively bargain over pay and benefits.
Law Limiting Ability To Collectively Bargain Over Pay And Benefits
Approve 52%
Disapprove 47%
Similar numbers approve of how Walker handled the collective bargaining issue.
Walker’s Handling Of Collective Bargaining
Approve 52%
Disapprove 47%
Looking ahead to 2012, here’s what the Fox News exit poll says about the Barack Obama-Mitt Romney matchup.
In 2008, Obama won Wisconsin by 14 percentage points. Among recall voters today, he topped Romney by seven points in a 2012 matchup, besting the former governor 51% to 44%. Among Obama backers, 18% say they voted for Walker today.
2012 Presidential Election
Obama 51%
Romney 44%
Wouldn’t vote 3%
Meanwhile, by 42-38 percent, more voters say Obama than Romney would do a better job improving the economy. Some 19% say "neither" would.
Who Would Do A Better Job Handling Economy?
Obama 42%
Romney 38%
Neither 19%
On which candidate would do a better job "helping the middle class" -- Obama again tops Romney by 46-37 percent.
Who Would Do A Better Job Helping The Middle Class?
Obama 46%
Romney 37%
Neither 16%
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/scott-walker/2012/06/06/exit-poll-tea-party-key-walker-win#ixzz28BguElXU
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Seeing it and voting against it are two very different things
What planet did you come from? These people know they're going to lose their jobs whether they're in a union or not. They know, union or not, under 0bama the steep defense cuts will definitely go through...that pretty much guarantees permanent unemployment. They also know, union or not, under Romney these steep defense cuts won't be made (or if they're inevitable they'll be reversed with a new executive budget). People vote with their pocketbook. The unions don't have the hold they used to.
Cindie
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Eagle Keeper, I so hope you are correct. I am a cautious optimist which in my mind means hope for the best but expect the worst. Sadly the last 6 years have only supported the expect the worst part.
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Jukin
I understand 4 yearsbut I'm not sure where you are getting 6 years from.
Could you show me some love and explain?
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Jukin
I understand 4 yearsbut I'm not sure where you are getting 6 years from.
Could you show me some love and explain?
The whole mess started under the control of the democrat party in the senate and HOR. There wee lots of bad things that Nanzi and Harry put through that bush could not veto. In fact they only gave him a CR to get through until 0bama was emaculated and signed that first $1.8 trillion dollar deficit budget for FY 09.