Obama rewrites WWII history
In one of his more egregious and easily demonstrated lies, made even more so by the day he decided to let it loose on, Obama has rewritten WWII history such that the allies liberated Auschwitz.
...Obama also spoke about his uncle, who was part of the American brigade that helped to liberate Auschwitz...
Auschwitz of course is in Poland. It was liberated by the Red Army on Jan 27 1945. Poland, on most maps is usually placed to the east of Germany, although we may need to investigate the geography textbooks the Messiah used as a child...
The Allies were wrapping up the battle of the bulge in late January of 1945 -- the Rhine crossings were still well into the future when Auschwitz was liberated. The first, the Remagen railway bridge which was discovered intact, was crossed on March 7 1945.
Of course it goes without saying that the media has thus far failed to call the Messiah on this apparently obviously outrageous lie. Unless Obama's "uncle" was serving in the Red Army, its a pretty safe bet he was many hundreds of miles from Auschwitz on its day of liberation.
Link (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/265103.php)
Hey, I BELIEVE Hussiens uncle was in the Red Army.
Why not, his nephew is sure a freakin' Communist.
Obama also spoke about his uncle, who was part of the American brigade that helped to liberate Auschwitz. He said the family legend is that, upon returning from war, his uncle spent six months in an attic. “Now obviously, something had really affected him deeply, but at that time there just weren’t the kinds of facilities to help somebody work through that kind of pain,†Obama said. “That’s why this idea of making sure that every single veteran, when they are discharged, are screened for post-traumatic stress disorder and given the mental health services that they need – that’s why it’s so important.â€
Did he say whether it was his white uncle or his black uncle that did this?
On 29 April 1945 the watchtowers of the Dachau camp remained occupied and a white flag was hoisted. Red Cross representative Maurer persuaded SS-Sturmscharführer Heinrich Wicker, an officer in the SS-Totenkopfverbände, to accompany him to the main gate of the complex to surrender the camp formally.
Late in the afternoon of 29 April 1945 KZ Dachau was surrendered to the American Army by SS-Sturmscharführer Heinrich Wicker.[11] A vivid description of the surrender appears in Brig. Gen. Henning Linden's official "Report on Surrender of Dachau Concentration Camp":
As we moved down along the west side of the concentration camp and approached the southwest corner, three people approached down the road under a flag of truce. We met these people about 75 yards north of the southwest entrance to the camp. These three people were a Swiss Red Cross representative and two SS troopers who said they were the camp commander and assistant camp commander and that they had come into the camp on the night of the 28th to take over from the regular camp personnel for the purpose of turning the camp over to the advancing Americans. The Swiss Red Cross representative acted as interpreter and stated that there were about 100 SS guards in the camp who had their arms stacked except for the people in the tower. He said he had given instructions that there would be no shots fired and it would take about 50 men to relieve the guards, as there were 42,000 half-crazed prisoners of war in the camp, many of them typhus infected. He asked if I were an officer of the American army, to which I replied, "Yes, I am Assistant Division Commander of the 42d Division and will accept the surrender of the camp in the name of the Rainbow Division for the American army."
General Dwight D. Eisenhower, issued a communique over the capture of Dachau concentration "Our forces liberated and mopped up the infamous concentration camp at Dachau. Approximately 32,000 prisoners were liberated; 300 SS camp guards were quickly neutralized."[12]
Tablet dedicated to the 42nd Division.A tablet at the camp commemorates the liberation of Dachau by the 42nd Infantry Division of the U.S. Seventh Army on 29 April 1945. Other claim that the first forces to enter the main camp were a battalion of the 157th Infantry Regiment of the 45th Infantry Division commanded by Felix L. Sparks. There is an on-going disagreement as to which division, the 42nd or the 45th, actually liberated Dachau because they seem to have approached by different routes and by the American Army's definition, anyone arriving at such a camp within 48 hours was a liberator.[13] General Patton visited the Buchenwald camp after it was liberated, but not Dachau.
The Americans found approximately 32,000 prisoners, crammed 1,600 to each of 20 barracks, which had been designed to house 250 people each.
The American troops were so horrified by conditions at the camp that a few shot some of the camp guards after they had surrendered in what is called the Dachau massacre. The number massacred is disputed as some Germans were killed in combat, some were killed while attempting to surrender, and others were killed after their surrender was accepted. Felix L. Sparks, the commander of a battalion that captured the camp, has stated that "The total number of German guards killed at Dachau during that day most certainly not exceed fifty, with thirty probably being a more accurate figure. The regimental records [of the 57th Infantry Regiment] for that date indicate that over a thousand German prisoners were brought to the regimental collecting point. Since my task force was leading the regimental attack, almost all the prisoners were taken by the task force, including several hundred from Dachau".[14] The "[American Army] Investigation of Alleged Mistreatment of German Guards at Dachau" found that about 15 Germans were killed (with another 4 or 5 wounded) after their surrender had been accepted. Two other reports collated years after the incident put the figure between 122 and 520 Germans killed after their surrender had been accepted.[15]
As a result of the American Army investigation court-martial charges were drawn up against Sparks and several other men under his command, but as General Patton, the recently appointed military governor of Bavaria, chose to dismiss the charges so the witnesses to the massacre were never cross examined in court and no one was found guilty.[14]
The U.S. troops also forced citizens of the local community to come to the camp, observe the conditions, and help clean the facilities. Many local residents were indignant about the experience and claimed no knowledge of the camp's activities.
what is your certainty based on? as I recall from the excerpts that I have read from The Audacity of Hope, his mother was an only child, and his father was kenyan.
“My grandfather marched in Patton’s army, but I cannot know what it is to walk into battle like so many of you,†he told a small group of veterans here. “My grandmother worked on a bomber assembly line, but I cannot know what it is for a family to sacrifice like so many of yours have.â€
Obama also spoke about his uncle, who was part of the American brigade that helped to liberate Auschwitz.
I said I was pretty sure Barry was talking at Dachau, a concentration camp liberated by the American Army in late April 1945. There is very little chance that any of his immediate relation helped in the liberation of AuschwitzYeah but Dachau just isn't the holocaust icon that Auschwitz is. I'd bet most Americans would think of the little dog if Dachau is mentioned.
I said I was pretty sure Barry was talking at Dachau, a concentration camp liberated by the American Army in late April 1945. There is very little chance that any of his immediate relation helped in the liberation of AuschwitzYeah but Dachau just isn't the holocaust icon that Auschwitz is. I'd bet most Americans would think of the little dog if Dachau is mentioned.
I said I was pretty sure Barry was talking at Dachau, a concentration camp liberated by the American Army in late April 1945. There is very little chance that any of his immediate relation helped in the liberation of AuschwitzYeah but Dachau just isn't the holocaust icon that Auschwitz is. I'd bet most Americans would think of the little dog if Dachau is mentioned.
that's another possible explanation for the auschwitz "mixup"; he has been in florida begging for jewish votes. if he can somehow connect himself to the liberation of auschwitz, that's instant nirvana.
bullseye!
TacticalPeek (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 06:14 PM
Original message http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6149907
Obama misspeaks. Where in the world is Auschwitz?
Advertisements [?]Edited on Tue May-27-08 06:26 PM by TacticalPeek
Candidate Watch
Where in the world is Auschwitz?
"I had an uncle who was one of the, um, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps. And the story in our family is that when he came home he just went up in the attic and he didn't leave the house for six months."
--Barack Obama, Memorial Day speech, Las Cruces, NM.
In an attempt to burnish his credentials with America's veterans, Barack Obama has frequently talked about his grandfather "who served in Patton's army." He has now added a new episode to his World War II repertoire: the uncle who liberated Auschwitz. Unfortunately, the story shows that the presumptive Democratic nominee has a poor grasp of European history and geography.
The Facts
UPDATED FRIDAY 5:30 P.M.
Auschwitz is located in southern Poland, near the city of Krakow. It was liberated by the Red Army on January 27, 1945. At the time, U.S. armies were still on the western borders of Germany, a thousand miles away, regrouping after the Battle of the Bulge. The Americans had not even crossed the Rhine at this point.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/whe...
More ad fodder for 'untrustworthy'.
Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. It turns out it was Buchenwald, not Auschwitz.
Makes you look pretty dumb, doesn't it?
tokenlib (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. And some of the Auschwitz prisoners had been sent to Buchenwald....
Edited on Tue May-27-08 06:19 PM by tokenlib
...so there.... it was a misspeak--but essentially true except for the name switch.
beachmom (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 06:34 PM.'
Response to Reply #23
31. No, you are a smear artist, and you are "Higginsboating" Obama's great uncle
Who liberated Ohrdruf concentration camp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrdruf_forced_labor_camp
The ghastly nature of their discovery led General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe, to visit the camp on April 12, with Generals George S. Patton and Omar Bradley. After his visit, Eisenhower cabled General George C. Marshall, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Washington, describing his trip to Ohrdruf:
. . .the most interesting--although horrible--sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda
K Gardner (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. What's the difference between Auschwitz and Buchenwald.. jerk.
some left wing lunatic called Glenn Beck this morning and actually said these words "You have taken it out of context, typical Republican reaction, now the word liberate does not literally mean liberate, in this context it means heard, so Baracks uncle in fact heard about the liberation of Aushwhich. Oh Jeez, I'm dying here! :rotf: :rotf:Go and read the Liberal apologists at NU.They were twisted in knots trying to explain just what he said,Dolphy and Bjork whats his face were funny but Terr held them to it !It was his grandfather,no his uncle,his mother was an only child,his fathers older brother and so it went !
A New Problem For Obama? His Aushwitz liberating Uncle who hid in the attic, was in the navy!
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/05/a-new-problem-f.html ^ | Dan Riehl
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:36:02 by hecht
A New Problem For Obama? Okay, so we have supposedly learned that it was Obama's Great Uncle that liberated a sub-section of Buchenwald, not an uncle at Auschwitz. But if sources are correct and unless there's some arcane military history in his favor, Obama still has a problem.
His only Great Uncle is Charles W. Payne. It at least appears that no one by that name from Kansas served in the Army during WWII.
Charles W. Payne of Kansas, with a similar birth era, served in the Navy during WWII.
What Obama's campaign released via first link above states he served in the Infantry. I assume it's possible the records are wrong, or he changed branches. But I'm unaware of that as a standard practice. Perhaps it happened during WWII for manpower reasons? Otherwise, Obama's Great Uncle would seem to have done most of his marching and liberating while at sea.
Information about the infantry division that Obama’s great uncle was a part of that took part in the liberation of a sub-camp of the Buchenwald concentration camp in Nazi Germany
malik flavors (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 04:53 PM
Original message
Obama's Great Uncle Was A Member Of The 89th Infantry Division That Liberated The Ohrduf Camp
Advertisements [?]May 27, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama
Obama's World War II history
Earlier, the Republican National Committee pounced on Obama's improbable statement that an uncle had served in the unit that liberated Auschwitz.
In fact, campaign spokesman Bill Burton says, his great uncle was a member of the 89th Infantry Division that liberated the Ohrduf camp, part of Buchenwald and according to the Holocaust Museum, the first concentration camp liberated by U.S. troops.
The soldier in question, Burton said, is Obama's grandmother's brother, who's still alive.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Obamas_Worl...
Major Hogwash (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
80. This is awesome! His uncle was one of our heroes! We looked up to those men since we were kids!!
This is the greatest news yet!! Damn!! This is way cool!!!!
The gaffes continued this holiday weekend for the media's presidential candidate.
Having mispronounced the name of the Florida city he was speaking in on Friday, as well as erred about what president was in the White House when Hugo Chavez took over Venezuela, Barack Obama talked about seeing dead people in the audience during a Memorial Day speech in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
Of course, you're not likely to hear about this, because it seems a metaphysical certitude Obama-loving meda won't consider this newsworthy.
As such, consider yourself fortunate that Gateway Pundit found another delicious campaign mistake for us (video embedded right):
On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong.
This guy's seeing dead people, and folks are worried about McCain developing Alzheimer's?
Obama's World War II history
Earlier, the Republican National Committee pounced on Obama's improbable statement that an uncle had served in the unit that liberated Auschwitz.
In fact, campaign spokesman Bill Burton says, his great uncle was a member of the 89th Infantry Division that liberated the Ohrduf camp, part of Buchenwald and, according to the Holocaust Museum, the first concentration camp liberated by U.S. troops.
The soldier in question, Burton said, is Obama's grandmother's brother, who's still alive.
UPDATE: "Senator Obama’s family is proud of the service of his grandfather and uncles in World War II – especially the fact that his great uncle was a part of liberating one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald. Yesterday he mistakenly referred to Auschwitz instead of Buchenwald in telling of his personal experience of a soldier in his family who served heroically," Burton says.
UPDATE: RNC spokesman Alex Conant, who said earlier that Obama's mistake raised questions about his "readiness to lead", moderates a bit: "At times it appears that Barack Obama inaccurately recalls his own history and American history, so it’s important that we point to the facts. In this case, we’re happy to see that he took the time to set the record straight."
link (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Obamas_World_War_II_history.html)
Holocaust Museum confirms, Obama's uncle's Infantry Division liberated Buchenwald
*snip*
Yesterday, Obama mentioned that his uncle, Charlie Payne, helped to liberate the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz. The Republicans were hoping that they could catch Obama lying - that maybe Obama never had an uncle who helped liberate the Jews in Europe. Well, in fact, Obama's uncle (his grandmother's brother) helped liberate the Nazi camp at Buchenwald (Obama mixed up Auschwitz and Buchenwald). So the Republicans (and a few Hillary fans emailed me as well) are trying to allege... what exactly? That Obama's family did in fact help save the Jews in Europe, but Obama got the name of the camp he liberated wrong? Okay. I'm not quite sure how that gives us any insight into Obama (other than his uncle is a hero) - I don't really know the difference Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Bergen Belsen and the rest of the camps. I just know that I'd be damn proud if a member of my family helped liberate them. Not to mention, according to the US Holocaust Museum (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10006140), Obama's uncle's Infantry Division didn't just liberate one of the camps that made up Buchenwald. It was the first Nazi concentration camp liberated by US troops in all of Germany. That's pretty amazing.
*snip*
link (http://www.americablog.com/2008/05/holocaust-museum-confirms-obamas-uncles.html)
Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there
This website has been created to honor the service of the 89th Infantry Division during the Second World War. The 89th, known as the Rolling W, served with distinction during combat operations in Europe from March-May, 1945.
This website was created by 89th veteran Raymond E. Kitchell and his son Mark R. Kitchell. We are grateful to the contributions of histories, stories and pictures from numerous 89th Infantry veterans and their families, and from the 89th Infantry Division Society.
link (http://www.89infdivww2.org/)
In fact, Obama's great uncle took part in the liberation of one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald, spokesman Bill Burton said this afternoon.http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/obama/
The Barack Obama campaign said Tuesday the candidate mistakenly referred to the wrong Nazi death camp when relating the story of a great uncle who helped liberate the camps in World War II.http://www.thebostonchannel.com/politics/16407801/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=news
The Democratic presidential candidate said the story is accurate except that the camp was Buchenwald, not Auschwitz.
QuoteConcerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there
This website has been created to honor the service of the 89th Infantry Division during the Second World War. The 89th, known as the Rolling W, served with distinction during combat operations in Europe from March-May, 1945.
This website was created by 89th veteran Raymond E. Kitchell and his son Mark R. Kitchell. We are grateful to the contributions of histories, stories and pictures from numerous 89th Infantry veterans and their families, and from the 89th Infantry Division Society.
link (http://www.89infdivww2.org/)
No, what is amazing is he did this while serving in the Navy.
The email list is no longer available online due to privacy concerns of the members. If you would like to contact a specific 89th Veteran, please email the webmaster at markkitchell@yahoo.comhttp://www.89infdivww2.org/society/contact.htm
—– Original Message —–
From: cigarskunk
To: markkitchell@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:38 PM
Subject: Searching for Charles W Payne
Dear Sirs,
In light of the recent controversy over the military service of Barrak Obama’s grandfather, Charles W Payne, I was hoping to contact you to get some kind of verification of his membership in the 89th.
I’ve checked the records of http://www.kshs.org/genealogis…..p;branch=N and they only list him as being in the Navy.
I would like to get a second source to confirm that Obama is still lying on this subject as my grandfathers, father and uncles all served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and I don’t particularly care for politicians lying about the service of family members to further thier political agendas.
Thank you in advance!
From: markkitchell@yahoo.com
To: cigarskunk
Subject: Re: Searching for Charles W Payne
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:52:48 +0200
You are the one who is lying. Mr. Payne served in the 89th Divison, 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K.
Pal2Pal
May 28th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I am confused. I thought the Great Uncle’s name was/is Ralph W. E.. Dunham, Jr., brother of Obama’s grandfather, Stanley A. Dunham. Ralph was inducted on May 28, 1942 in Kansas (record with the Kansas Historical Society WWII records as Ralph E Dunham Jr) and served with the 89th when they liberated Ohrdruf, a smaller camp that was part of Buchenwald. Stanley’s record is there also. At least this is the info I had before I went to bed last night. Charlie Payne is a new name to me since yesterday. What’d I miss?
Right2thepoint
May 28th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
The reason Charlie E. Payne comes into play is that Burton who represents the Obama campaign said at Politico that the great uncle in question is from the grandmother side of the family tree. So that eliminates both the grandfather and his older brother who served in the army unless Burton got his facts wrong.
RiehlWorld has tracked the records for the grandmother and she has a brother named Charles E. Payne, however Kansas records for WWII vets show no army record for that name but they do show a Navy record under that name.
Few would disagree that the Navy was not likely involved in freeing the camps directly.
However one commentor at another site has found an army name match for Payne but the birth year is off by a few and it is from a DC database rather than the Kansas history.
The only link I have is the one from the Kansas Historical Society WWII Records and what I picked up yesterday in comments at Ace’s and JOM.
Dunham, Ralph E. Inducted 28 May 1942, Army 37203549 Registered, order # 1180 Mound City, Linn Co. (Board # 1) Serial # also assigned to Lawrence W. Solomon
At this point, I take everything coming out of the Obama campaign with a grain of salt, but this confusion seems needless and should be easily verifiable and I just want to get it right.
This is the latest on the Kitchell site:
Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there.
Two problems: no credible source and Mrs. Dunham’s brother’s name was Charles W. Payne.
Oh, yeah, Mia...that is some good proof, you got there.
Oh, yeah, Mia...that is some good proof, you got there.
I'm just posting what I saw. *shrug*
Oh, yeah, Mia...that is some good proof, you got there.
I'm just posting what I saw. *shrug*
I think the whole thing is intresting, not for a 'Oh my goodness, Obama lied!' point, but from a point that people are starting to act like this is already the General Election.
I don't want to place disrespect on Barry's relatives who did their part in WWII, and if in fact, one of them helped liberate any prison camps, regardless of the place it was, or when, I have nothing but respect for them.
However, if Barry was just making it up to gather votes...
...that pisses me off just a bit. Not so much from a Republican viewpoint, but from the viewpoint of someone who lost family to the Nazis during the war (Mother's family in the Ukraine).
The fact that any political figure simply makes up stories for whatever audience they are speaking to in order to gain votes is over.