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Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:19:13 AM

Title: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:19:13 AM
The Supreme Court upheld the health care law today in a splintered, complex opinion that appears to give President Obama a major victory.

Basically. the justices said that the individual mandate -- the requirement that most Americans buy health insurance or pay a fine -- is constitutional as a tax.

While the individual mandate remained 18 months away from implementation, many other provisions already have gone into effect, such as free wellness exams for seniors and allowing children up to age 26 to remain on their parents' health insurance policies. Some of those provisions are likely to be retained by some insurance companies.

USA Today (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/06/Supreme-Court-rules-on-Obama-health-care-plan-718037/1)

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 09:19:17 AM
No link yet.

We are so ****ing ****ed.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:20:50 AM
How do they decide who gets taxed?  Lose your job because Obama's economy sucks and your health insurance goes with it, and Barry's goons stick you with a "penalty" for being unemployed? 
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:21:59 AM
No link yet.

We are so ****ing ****ed.

Yep, in fact their little legislation operation from the bench moved us even closer to socialized medicine imo.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:22:54 AM
Quote
The Supreme Court has ruled that ObamaCare's individual mandate to purchase health insurance will survive as a tax, with Chief Justice Roberts joining the court liberals to write a majority opinion. The court also placed some narrow limits on federal power to limit state Medicaid funds.

Update: SCOTUSBlog reports that Chief Justice John Roberts cast the deciding vote to save the law. Essentially the entire law will stand.

Update: The ruling states that, "The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate. "
Reason (http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/28/breaking-supreme-court-upholds-obamacare)

Oh, so you don't have to pay it after all.  How nice. :whatever:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 09:23:59 AM
Yep, in fact their little legislation operation from the bench moved us even closer to socialized medicine imo.

It's worse than that.  Basically this is a precedent for the government to force us into buying anything they deem "necessary" under the guise of a tax. 

It was a good country while it lasted.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 09:24:10 AM
It's a tax increase. It's not a part of the commerce clause. We still may be ****ed, but we're less ****ed than we could be. We have obama ON RECORD calling this "not a tax."
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:24:29 AM
6-3 in favor.

So who was the other alleged Conservative judge that voted for this pile of shit? :argh:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:24:59 AM
We will just have to wait for congress and Romney to repeal it. Top reps in congress said yesterday that if it is upheld, they will start the repeal process.

Justice Roberts turned liberal today.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 09:26:28 AM
We will just have to wait for congress and Romney to repeal it. Top reps in congress said yesterday that if it is upheld, they will start the repeal process.

Justice Roberts turned liberal today.

I really liked him too.  What could have done this to him?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:27:53 AM
We will just have to wait for congress and Romney to repeal it. Top reps in congress said yesterday that if it is upheld, they will start the repeal process.

That is one ****ing campaign promise Romney had better keep.

And lets hope the Congress critters find a spine and do everything they can NOT to fund this POS.

Quote
Justice Roberts turned liberal today.

Yup.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: VivisMom on June 28, 2012, 09:29:50 AM
So basically, the Constitution is now worthless. Awesome.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:31:06 AM
So basically, the Constitution is now worthless. Awesome.

Or can be manipulated to the point it is indeed worthless. Like someone else said, it was a good country while it lasted. Before long, nothing differentiates us from the shitholes that are nearly bankrupt in Europe. :banghead:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:31:31 AM
And what people don't realize is...now the Feds can tell us what to eat...what to wear...what to drive...all under the guise of healthcare and what's "good" for us.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 09:32:44 AM
Does this mean that now the govt gets to tax those who don't have insurance?  those who are already struggling to make ends meet?  those that are unemployed or without income?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 09:33:16 AM
Largest tax increase in American history.


Guys, this isn't the nightmare you think it is. It's a tax increase. Do you realize how easy it will be for Romney to run on Obama increasing taxes on every American? The Commerce Clause is intact, the order has no real teeth, and this will lead to a tea-party/Republican tsunami in November.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:33:22 AM
That is one ****ing campaign promise Romney had better keep.

And lets hope the Congress critters find a spine and do everything they can NOT to fund this POS.

Yup.

If Romney doesn't keep the promise. He will not be re-elected.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:34:12 AM
Largest tax increase in American history.


Guys, this isn't the nightmare you think it is. It's a tax increase. Do you realize how easy it will be for Romney to run on Obama increasing taxes on every American? The Commerce Clause is intact, the order has no real teeth, and this will lead to a tea-party/Republican tsunami in November.

I agree. This is 2010 all over again. The Dems are going to pay dearly for this.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 09:35:35 AM
states can opt out!!?!?!?!?

Weird.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Texacon on June 28, 2012, 09:37:19 AM
I see this as leading to a Romney victory in November.  This legislation is HATED by most Americans and the USSC is not the final deciding factor.  The people are.  They proved that in 2010 and it's about to happen again.  More and more people are going to be upset by this.

I really think this is going to give us a Republican lead White House, Congress and Senate.

Just my thoughts.

KC
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:37:24 AM
Does this mean that now the govt gets to tax those who don't have insurance?  those who are already struggling to make ends meet?  those that are unemployed or without income?

I'm assuming those of us workign with healthcare will see this tax via MORE rate increases. And those without or who choose not to buy will have to pay the tax. So yeah, you are screwed either way. And make no mistake. All those getting the freebies already..the moochers will be given some kind of indemnity from paying for this pos while using the most services.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: BlueStateSaint on June 28, 2012, 09:37:36 AM
Largest tax increase in American history.


Guys, this isn't the nightmare you think it is. It's a tax increase. Do you realize how easy it will be for Romney to run on Obama increasing taxes on every American? The Commerce Clause is intact, the order has no real teeth, and this will lead to a tea-party/Republican tsunami in November.

I fully agree.  Possibly a fillibuster-proof Senate, too.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:37:53 AM
states can opt out!!?!?!?!?

Weird.

My understanding (And someone please correct me if I am wrong) is that the states can opt out. But you will still be paying the tax for it.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:38:10 AM
Does this mean that now the govt gets to tax those who don't have insurance?  those who are already struggling to make ends meet?  those that are unemployed or without income?

Yup.  The guy who claimed he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making over 200K just raised taxes on all of us.  And by doing so he just flushed what little momentum the economy had.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: VivisMom on June 28, 2012, 09:39:33 AM
states can opt out!!?!?!?!?

Weird.

Only out of Medicare programs.

And while I agree with you that yes, this will help Romeny win, the issue is that the Supreme Court-whose ONLY JOB is to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION-has basically shat all over individual liberty. Congress can tax us for healthcare? What's to stop them from saying 'hey, drive a hybrid car or get taxed!' or 'we're going to put an extra tax on people who eat McDonald's!'
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: BigTex on June 28, 2012, 09:39:53 AM
Im not sure whats worse the ACA or that the SCOTUS can now rewrite laws
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:39:54 AM
My understanding (And someone please correct me if I am wrong) is that the states can opt out. But you will still be paying the tax for it.
But the Court said you don't have to.

What a ****ing mess.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 09:40:16 AM
Roberts is a genius. He may be smarter than Rove. He preserved the Constitution. Then, he ensured a Republican victory.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: dixierose on June 28, 2012, 09:40:34 AM
I worked last night and stayed up to hear this travesty. I'm a literally sick to my stomach. And I am also the most pissed off I've been in YEARS. I'm with y'all....it was a great country while it lasted. And what about people who work at small businesses that can't afford insurance? Will THEY get taxed? This SUX.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 09:40:54 AM
Yup.  The guy who claimed he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making over 200K just raised taxes on all of us.  And by doing so he just flushed what little momentum the economy had.

It's GWB's fault
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:41:47 AM
But the Court said you don't have to.

What a ****ing mess.

yeah, I saw that too. Let's see the people get out of paying for the tax much like we all get out of paying for other taxes. Last I checked you'll have the IRS crawling up your ass if you opt out of damn tax that you are expected to pay. Cluster**** has finally found it's ultimate meaning n this.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:43:07 AM
I worked last night and stayed up to hear this travesty. I'm a literally sick to my stomach. And I am also the most pissed off I've been in YEARS. I'm with y'all....it was a great country while it lasted. And what about people who work at small businesses that can't afford insurance? Will THEY get taxed? This SUX.

That's an affirmative. I'm sure they will find some way to tax both the employee and the employer much like fica too...Ain't this great?  :banghead:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: dixierose on June 28, 2012, 09:44:31 AM
There goes the jobs. I don't see why any business would hire anyone now....
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:45:39 AM
It's GWB's fault

It will be...give them time!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:46:13 AM
yeah, I saw that too. Let's see the people get out of paying for the tax much like we all get out of paying for other taxes. Last I checked you'll have the IRS crawling up your ass if you opt out of damn tax that you are expected to pay. Cluster**** has finally found it's ultimate meaning n this.
Yep.

Wait until the IRS starts witholding Sheniqua and Trayshawn's EIC payments to cover their Obamacare "tax".  The hood rats will be pissed.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:46:22 AM
But the Court said you don't have to.

What a ****ing mess.

It is beyond a mess. It will take months to figure this out.


Roberts is a genius. He may be smarter than Rove. He preserved the Constitution. Then, he ensured a Republican victory.

I didn't think of it that way. I wonder if that is what he was thinking?

I was going watch MSNBC to see what they are saying about this, but I'm not in the mood to see all the Obama hats and Baloons that say how great he is.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:47:03 AM
There goes the jobs. I don't see why any business would hire anyone now....

Pretty much...that "woosh" you hear is what little momentum our economy had getting flushed.

Unless of course Obama decides now he can "mandate" that employers hire people...
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 09:47:41 AM
There goes the jobs. I don't see why any business would hire anyone now....

It gets worse.  Companies now see that they can just shitcan everyone's insurance and simply pay the tax/whatever you want to call it and shove people out into the cold.  It saves them a shitload of money, and leaves people who are higher risk well and truly ****ed.

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:47:48 AM
Yep.

Wait until the IRS starts witholding Sheniqua and Trayshawn's EIC payments to cover their Obamacare "tax".  The hood rats will be pissed.

See that's who won't be affected. They will get some kind of EITC to cover this shit. It will be the middle class who will be dragged further down to the level of hood rats financially. Actually worse. That was the point of my screed earlier about at which point to good people have to throw in the towel because their family is screwed either way and they are giving hours of their lives away to the losers among us?  :banghead:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:47:53 AM
It will be...give them time!

They are actually blaming the Heritage Foundation for it.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Lacarnut on June 28, 2012, 09:48:42 AM
We can expect the stock market and new business's to head into the shitter. This is a horrible job killing bill. This sure as hell will not lower the unemployment figures.

Obama can crow all he wants about this victory but in the long run it is going to be a negative in Nov.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 09:49:02 AM
Unless of course Obama decides now he can "mandate" that employers hire people...
They're working on that. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/corporate-america-is-sitting-on-the-solution-to-the-jobs-crisis_n_1132445.html)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:49:23 AM
It gets worse.  Companies now see that they can just shitcan everyone's insurance and simply pay the tax/whatever you want to call it and shove people out into the cold.  It saves them a shitload of money, and leaves people who are higher risk well and truly ****ed.



Absolutely agreed. That's why I think this decision moves us closer to the single payer shit the liberals want. This was a lose for our country as we knew it.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:51:53 AM
They're working on that. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/corporate-america-is-sitting-on-the-solution-to-the-jobs-crisis_n_1132445.html)

I know.  Trust me there was no snark of any kind in my statement.

He's got the green light to mandate any ****ing thing he wants now.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 09:52:29 AM
Absolutely agreed. That's why I think this decision moves us closer to the single payer shit the liberals want. This was a lose for our country as we knew it.

What really torques my ass is this--I am part of a union at my work.  The current contract ends in December of 2013.  Obamacare really kicks into gear in January 2014.  Anyone want to guess what they're going to do vis-a-vis our health benefits?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Texacon on June 28, 2012, 09:52:59 AM
But the Court said you don't have to.

What a ****ing mess.

I think that 'can' in your post is actually a typo.  The front page of Drudge says you CAN'T simply ignore the tax or the mandate.

KC
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:53:20 AM
Quote
"The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part  The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause," Roberts wrote. "That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/supreme-court-upholds-individual-mandate-obamacare-survives/#ixzz1z6GjKEDl

Told ya all..Shaniqua won't be affected by this outcome.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 09:55:22 AM
What really torques my ass is this--I am part of a union at my work.  The current contract ends in December of 2013.  Obamacare really kicks into gear in January 2014.  Anyone want to guess what they're going to do vis-a-vis our health benefits?

No doubt.  :censored:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 09:57:06 AM
This will add another payroll deduction. This is the largest tax increase in American history.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 09:57:25 AM
No doubt.  :censored:

I'm already seeing in our industry how they're cutting out ANY raises.  Pilgrim briefly went on strike over doubling health care premiums and capping raises at 2 percent.  Duane Arnold just rejected a contract that had 1 percent raises in it.

I got 3 percent last year and the increases in premiums ate almost all of that, and general inflation is WAY more than 3 percent, I guarantee that.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 09:57:52 AM
(http://www.scn.org/~toddt/su-flag.gif)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 09:58:58 AM
I thought of another good thing: If it were 5-4 the other way, there would be a huge, huge mess. Conservatives and republicans won't break shit, we'll just vote to repeal the hell out of theis nightmare.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 09:59:15 AM
(http://www.scn.org/~toddt/su-flag.gif)

Sad but true.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: txradioguy on June 28, 2012, 10:02:34 AM
And here we go:

Quote
Stocks extended their losses Thursday, wiping out all of the previous session's gains, amid skepticism that European leaders would be able to form a solution to tackle the ongoing debt crisis and following the Supreme Court’s ruling on the health-care bill.

The Supreme Court upheld the individual health insurance requirement in President Obama's health-care law, a victory for Democrats and Obama. Medicaid-related stocks such as Amerigroup [AGP  65.02    2.62  (+4.2%)   ] and Molina [MOH  22.41    1.09  (+5.11%)   ] jumped following the announcement.

And hospital stocks including Universal Health [UHS  40.60    1.35  (+3.44%)   ], Community Health [CYH  27.29    1.80  (+7.06%)   ] and Tenet Healthcare [THC  5.28    0.30  (+6.02%)   ] rallied.

But most managed care companies such as Cigna [CI  43.81    -1.59  (-3.5%)   ], Wellpoint [WLP  65.54    -3.95  (-5.68%)   ] and Aetna [AET  39.32    -1.64  (-4%)   ] dragged.

“It’s a pretty clear negative. Until the election [in November], public policy uncertainty was going to be on the rise, dampening business confidence,” Barry Knapp, head of U.S. equity portfolio strategy at Barclays. “This clearly plays into that theme and it leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions….Markets were going down anyway and this is just going to be a pretty clear negative catalyst over the next or two as opposed to something to stop the bleeding.”


http://www.cnbc.com/id/47994090
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 10:03:21 AM
This will add another payroll deduction. This is the largest tax increase in American history.
I suppose your employer will be required to inform the IRS if you have a health insurance plan or not.  More paperwork for them ratting out their coworkers.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:03:32 AM
Senator Mitch McConnel is going to make a statement about repealing it here soon.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 10:04:40 AM
Senator Mitch McConnel is going to make a statement about repealing it here soon.

Now, we need only 51 votes.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: BigTex on June 28, 2012, 10:04:52 AM
I thought of another good thing: If it were 5-4 the other way, there would be a huge, huge mess. Conservatives and republicans won't break shit, we'll just vote to repeal the hell out of theis nightmare.

It might not happen for a while, we will probably need the full 60 republicans in the senate
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:05:06 AM
I suppose your employer will be required to inform the IRS if you have a health insurance plan or not.  More paperwork for them ratting out their coworkers.

Yeah, it will be nothing but one big mess and more work. This whole thing is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 10:05:36 AM
You guys aren't looking at the BIG picture. For the first time in history a precedent has been set that mandates you to buy something JUST for Damn living. They can now force you to buy ANY ****ing thing. Romney getting elected is going to fix it? Roberts stupid ass was a Damn Bush appointee. R and D. All the ****ing same. Progressive pieces of fly-covered dog shit.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 10:07:15 AM
You guys aren't looking at the BIG picture. For the first time in history a precedent has been set that mandates you to buy something JUST for Damn living. They can now force you to buy ANY ****ing thing. Romney getting elected is going to fix it? Roberts stupid ass was a Damn Bush appointee. R and D. All the ****ing same. Progressive pieces of fly-covered dog shit.

I believe I've noted that here and elsewhere.

Reagan had it right when he said (paraphrasing) that laws that protect us from each other are a good thing, but laws that protect us from ourselves is tyranny.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:08:04 AM
This just in: Eric Cantor has announced that the week of July 9th (When they get back), they will start the repeal process. That is good news.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 10:08:21 AM
How's the Dominican Republic this time of the year?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Tucker on June 28, 2012, 10:08:42 AM
There's a bright side to all of this.

The left cannot use Romneycare as a hit piece during the campaign. This is going to help Romney, big time.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 10:09:32 AM
This just in: Eric Cantor has announced that the week of July 9th (When they get back), they will start the repeal process. That is good news.


Read above. Doesn't matter if it's repealed. We'll be fighting these mandate battles, for EVERYTHING, till the end of time, 1 step forward, 2 steps back, losing a little liberty at every battle. This nation is done. Stick a fork in us. Ayn Rand was a Damn psychic.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: USA4ME on June 28, 2012, 10:10:45 AM
There's a bright side to all of this.

The left cannot use Romneycare as a hit piece during the campaign. This is going to help Romney, big time.

And they can kiss universal healthcare good-bye.  If this stands, then it'll be what we have.  If it doesn't, it won't be revisited for a long, long time.  Either way, no single-payer/universal care.

.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Splashdown on June 28, 2012, 10:11:20 AM
You guys aren't looking at the BIG picture. For the first time in history a precedent has been set that mandates you to buy something JUST for Damn living. They can now force you to buy ANY ****ing thing. Romney getting elected is going to fix it? Roberts stupid ass was a Damn Bush appointee. R and D. All the ****ing same. Progressive pieces of fly-covered dog shit.

Reb, No they can't. They can tax you. They always could. Roberts saved the Commerce Clause.

From RB Pundit:

Quote
Had the Court ruled that the individual mandate is a proper use of federal power under the Commerce Clause, all hope would have been lost. Taxing is one thing. But the ability to issue regulations and mandates outside of the taxing power would have literally put no limits on the power of the federal government.
link (http://www.therightsphere.com/2012/06/what-just-happened-at-the-supreme-court/)

It only takes 51 votes to repeal a tax.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Tucker on June 28, 2012, 10:13:27 AM
And they can kiss universal healthcare good-bye.  If this stands, then it'll be what we have.  If it doesn't, it won't be revisited for a long, long time.  Either way, no single-payer/universal care.

.

DUmmies need to hear that part. They'll go ape shit.

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:15:04 AM
Read above. Doesn't matter if it's repealed. We'll be fighting these mandate battles, for EVERYTHING, till the end of time, 1 step forward, 2 steps back, losing a little liberty at every battle. This nation is done. Stick a fork in us. Ayn Rand was a Damn psychic.

That is quite possible, but I am trying to be optimistic about this.



On another note: Romney will be making a statement about this at 11:45 Am. It better be a good one!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 10:16:10 AM
(http://www.scn.org/~toddt/su-flag.gif)

Yep...sad Hi5 :bawl:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: diesel driver on June 28, 2012, 10:17:53 AM
I only have 4 words:

WHAT THE ****ING HELL!!!!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 10:17:59 AM
Since we are taxing people for not having health insurance, how about we tax the leaches for not working?  :panic:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 10:18:31 AM
Since we are taxing people for not having health insurance, how about we tax the leaches for not working?  :panic:

Racist.  /DUmode
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Karin on June 28, 2012, 10:21:59 AM
Please re-read what Splashdown wrote.  It makes a lot of sense:

Quote
Reb, No they can't. They can tax you. They always could. Roberts saved the Commerce Clause.

From RB Pundit:

Quote
"Had the Court ruled that the individual mandate is a proper use of federal power under the Commerce Clause, all hope would have been lost. Taxing is one thing. But the ability to issue regulations and mandates outside of the taxing power would have literally put no limits on the power of the federal government."

It only takes 51 votes to repeal a tax.

I'm having all kinds of knee-jerk reactions internally over this, but we really need to keep our heads and read up on some analysis. 

And NO, I'm not sticking a fork in her.  She's worth fighting for. 
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 10:22:53 AM
Racist.  /DUmode

Hey I want white leaches to pay too.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Texacon on June 28, 2012, 10:23:09 AM
You guys aren't looking at the BIG picture. For the first time in history a precedent has been set that mandates you to buy something JUST for Damn living. They can now force you to buy ANY ****ing thing. Romney getting elected is going to fix it? Roberts stupid ass was a Damn Bush appointee. R and D. All the ****ing same. Progressive pieces of fly-covered dog shit.

I'm not missing that part of it.  I just think that NOW the people are going to speak and speak LOUDLY!  We will get a conservative majority and vote this shit out and then thumb our noses at the USSC.  The USSC is not the last word on anything.  Ever.  Not in reality.  If the people don't take this opportunity then we are well and truly screwed.

We might even be able to get rid of this piece of garbage legislation earlier since the Dems saw how the nation reacted in 2010, saw how many of them fell on their swords to make the legislation pass.  If they want to keep their jobs come November they may have to split from O'bama and vote this crap out.

KC
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: FreeBorn on June 28, 2012, 10:23:48 AM
How's the Dominican Republic this time of the year?
Still a Republic. Remember when we had one of those?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:28:23 AM
They just showed on Fox News what the tax will be if you don't have the coverage. -> In 2014, if you don't have the coverage, you will be faces with a 1.5% tax on your income. It will grow each year after that till 2016 when a total of 2.5% of your income will be going towards the tax.

So what it looks like to me is that if you don't have the coverage they are going to tax you, but if you do have it, they won't tax you. Either way you look at it, depending on your income, it will be cheaper to pay the tax than it will be to get the coverage.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: JohnnyReb on June 28, 2012, 10:30:08 AM
No link yet.

We are so ****ing ****ed.

Obamacare: the new fatal STD.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:38:14 AM
One of my Paulbot friends on facebook is saying that this should be a victory for Ron Paul as a write in. I swear the PaulBots are so stupid!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 10:39:34 AM
One of my Paulbot friends on facebook is saying that this should be a victory for Ron Paul as a write in. I swear the PaulBots are so stupid!
Everything is a victory for Ron Paul!

Yes, your friend is an idiot.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 10:39:45 AM
It gets worse.  They're now saying it was a 5-4 decision.

**** you Roberts.  **** you all to hell.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 10:48:45 AM
Reb, No they can't. They can tax you. They always could. Roberts saved the Commerce Clause.

From RB Pundit:
link (http://www.therightsphere.com/2012/06/what-just-happened-at-the-supreme-court/)

It only takes 51 votes to repeal a tax.

I don't see a damn bit of difference. With the precedent they just set, hell, they can tax people and extra tax for attending a private school instead of a public school. What's to stop them? Say you want to go to Vanderbilt instead of UT-Knox. On your bill, you see a 2% "privilege tax" for not attending a public university. Feel free to show me where they don't have that power now.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:49:23 AM
Romney is speaking now. He said that what the court did not do, he will on his first day in office. That is to repeal obamacare.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 10:51:11 AM

So what it looks like to me is that if you don't have the coverage they are going to tax you, but if you do have it, they won't tax you. Either way you look at it, depending on your income, it will be cheaper to pay the tax than it will be to get the coverage.

....and....what happens to the insurance companies when people start dropping coverage?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: IassaFTots on June 28, 2012, 10:54:07 AM
Please re-read what Splashdown wrote.  It makes a lot of sense:

I'm having all kinds of knee-jerk reactions internally over this, but we really need to keep our heads and read up on some analysis. 

And NO, I'm not sticking a fork in her.  She's worth fighting for. 

After calming down, and calling Splashdown "f'n Mr. Merry Sunshine" in my head as I originally read his posts, I see where he is going here. 

And I am with you exactly, Karin.

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 28, 2012, 10:54:26 AM
....and....what happens to the insurance companies when people start dropping coverage?

Yep, the insurance companies will start to go under. But the question is what insurance companies? Is there going to be a select group of insurance companies still operating? Will the only choices be the insurance companies that agree with obama, or donate money to his campaign?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 10:57:28 AM
Romney is speaking now. He said that what the court did not do, he will on his first day in office. That is to repeal obamacare.

Problem is, HE can't do that.  Only Congress can, and that means GOP supermajorities in both the House and Senate.  Only when they pass a repeal of Obamacare can President Romney (oh please, oh please) can he do that.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 10:57:29 AM
Yep, the insurance companies will start to go under. But the question is, what insurance companies? Is there going to be a select group of insurance companies still operating? Will the only choices be the insurance companies that agree with obama, or donate money to his campaign?

Ah, so the remaining private companies will eventually be funded by the government to provide for the people when it gets to the point where everyone drops. What do we call that again? Here's a hint:



(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001138887/800px_Italian_Fascist_flag_1930s_1940ssvg_answer_2_xlarge.png)



Which is only a stepping stone to the flag I posted earlier.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 11:05:15 AM
listening to Rush right now and he is smoothing it over for me........I love Rush.... :drool:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: FreeBorn on June 28, 2012, 11:07:54 AM
....and....what happens to the insurance companies when people start dropping coverage?
That is precisely what this whole sordid mess was about, right from the get-go.

This was NEVER about "healthcare". It was about destroying capitalism and ushering in socialism.

I cannot ****ing believe those dirty rat bastard "conservative" traitorous justices just did this to us.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: 67 Rover on June 28, 2012, 11:11:47 AM
Well, it looks as though we will all be driving Chevy Volts if Obama gets a second term.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 28, 2012, 11:37:41 AM
That is precisely what this whole sordid mess was about, right from the get-go.

This was NEVER about "healthcare". It was about destroying capitalism and ushering in socialism.

I cannot ****ing believe those dirty rat bastard "conservative" traitorous justices just did this to us.

Only one did. Roberts, the new Souter.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: thundley4 on June 28, 2012, 11:39:03 AM
Problem is, HE can't do that.  Only Congress can, and that means GOP supermajorities in both the House and Senate.  Only when they pass a repeal of Obamacare can President Romney (oh please, oh please) can he do that.

Obama has set new precedents for what a president can do by Executive Order.  If Romney has any balls he will use that to undo whatever he can about ObamaCare.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 28, 2012, 11:39:14 AM
Problem is, HE can't do that.  Only Congress can, and that means GOP supermajorities in both the House and Senate.  Only when they pass a repeal of Obamacare can President Romney (oh please, oh please) can he do that.

One word:

Reconciliation.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Mike220 on June 28, 2012, 11:40:03 AM
This is great news. I can barely afford to keep a roof over my head, food in the fridge and gas in the car and now I have to find some way to pay for health insurance.

I think I'll call it a tax on the un/underemployed.

Thank you John Roberts. What the **** were you thinking?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 11:40:47 AM
from a friend

Quote
Theory: Roberts didn't want to let Kennedy be the fall guy AGAIN, so he voted yes, and in doing so he is more assured that we will vote Obama out and have the next SCOTUS appointments? The next ones are HUGE and if this got struck down could it have motivated more people to vote for Obama and/or caused more Indies and Cons to stay home from being pissed off? This *almost* assures us a win on Nov (voter fraud and October surprises notwithstanding)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: NHSparky on June 28, 2012, 11:41:16 AM
Well, it looks as though we will all be driving Chevy Volts if Obama gets a second term.

You should be so lucky.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 11:44:40 AM
look what CNN has about what the ruling means to me

Quote
The insured

Because the requirement remains for people to have or buy insurance, the revenue stream designed to help pay for the law remains in place. So insured Americans may be avoiding a spike in premiums that could have resulted if the high court had tossed out the individual mandate but left other requirements on insurers in place.

 :mental:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 11:57:41 AM
look what CNN has about what the ruling means to me

 :mental:

They are nuts. Do you know how many people are saying even compared to their current rates it's cheaper for them to pay the few hundred dollars in mandate er um tax and just drop insurance and get on the gov. insurance and either eventually buy a supplemental or the excess money saved use it towards any healthcare gaps? So we will look like Canada. Unfortunately, we have no country to run to for operations if the wait is too long or it is denied.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: thundley4 on June 28, 2012, 11:59:25 AM
They are nuts. Do you know how many people are saying even compared to their current rates it's cheaper for them to pay the few hundred dollars in mandate er um tax and just drop insurance and get on the gov. insurance and either eventually buy a supplemental or the excess money saved use it towards any healthcare gaps? So we will look like Canada. Unfortunately, we have no country to run to for operations if the wait is too long or it is denied.

I will laugh if the big companies start trying to drop insurance from union contracts.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Carl on June 28, 2012, 12:02:09 PM
Someone educate me here.
This law was the Senate bill but now has been declared a tax.
Tax bills have to start in the House don`t they?

Wouldn`t that make the whole thing unconstitutional?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 28, 2012, 12:03:08 PM
I will laugh if the big companies start trying to drop insurance from union contracts.

YOu and me both. I think this is going to be funny in some ways. Just wish we could watch it under a microscope instead of as a part of it.  :thatsright:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: thundley4 on June 28, 2012, 12:08:47 PM
YOu and me both. I think this is going to be funny in some ways. Just wish we could watch it under a microscope instead of as a part of it.  :thatsright:

For some strange reason my  company wanted a 5 year contract covering wages and benefits. Our insurance is locked in for that period with increases tied to medical COLA.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 12:16:52 PM
If you thought people were pissed off abouth a $7 monthly surcharge on their checking accounts to cover Dodd-Frank, wait until health care companies start sending out rate increase notices.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: zeitgeist on June 28, 2012, 12:18:33 PM
Ah, so the remaining private companies will eventually be funded by the government to provide for the people when it gets to the point where everyone drops. What do we call that again? Here's a hint:



(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001138887/800px_Italian_Fascist_flag_1930s_1940ssvg_answer_2_xlarge.png)



Which is only a stepping stone to the flag I posted earlier.

I know I know, pick me.   :yahoo: Pick me.  

The Italian Job  Fascism,  kids.  Pure and simple.  
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Freeper on June 28, 2012, 12:23:33 PM
What happened today is a tragedy, from now on our government can force us to behave in any way, or buy any product they see fit, all they have to do is classify it as a tax. You still don't want to drive a Chevy Volt? that's cool we won't force you to buy one, but in April we will tax you for driving a gas powered vehicle.  :banghead:

The worst part is, one of our own is who made this possible. At least when we can point at the libs and blame them we can still have some faith in our people, but after today who can we trust?

I'd say stick a fork in us, we are done, but I refuse to give up, I may not be able to do much, but when I vote I will vote for people who will promise to take our republic back to being a republic, and away from the 0bama dictatorship that we have become.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: docstew on June 28, 2012, 12:28:24 PM
Please re-read what Splashdown wrote.  It makes a lot of sense:

I'm having all kinds of knee-jerk reactions internally over this, but we really need to keep our heads and read up on some analysis. 

And NO, I'm not sticking a fork in her.  She's worth fighting for. 

H5 for the bolded
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on June 28, 2012, 12:37:54 PM
Why Obamacare Won't Work
[youtube=425,350]3S9dwP-fV3o[/youtube]
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Toastedturningtidelegs on June 28, 2012, 12:44:19 PM
look what CNN has about what the ruling means to me

 :mental:
Quote
The insured

Because the requirement remains for people to have or buy insurance, the revenue stream designed to help pay for the law remains in place. So insured Americans may be avoiding a spike in premiums that could have resulted if the high court had tossed out the individual mandate but left other requirements on insurers in place.

Bullshit! My premium just went up 35% last week! :banghead:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: docstew on June 28, 2012, 12:50:42 PM
Someone educate me here.
This law was the Senate bill but now has been declared a tax.
Tax bills have to start in the House don`t they?

Wouldn`t that make the whole thing unconstitutional?

Very good point. Totally correct. And totally moot in this case.

If someone with standing were to file suit that it was a tax (as decided by the USSC) that originated in the Senate, then you might have something once it finally reached the USSC. Til then, not a relevant argument.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: JohnnyReb on June 28, 2012, 12:52:27 PM
Bullshit! My premium just went up 35% last week! :banghead:

Quit fussing, you will get the other 2/3's of your 3,000% decrease in premium soon.
Obama promised it so you can take that to the bank.....if it hasn't folded yet.

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 12:57:53 PM
so are we at least going to get a contempt vote today?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: WinOne4TheGipper on June 28, 2012, 01:12:02 PM
When I first heard that Roberts wrote the opinion, I assumed that it was because Kennedy voted to uphold, and Roberts wanted to at least provide an opinion that sort of smacked down the law while upholding it (which he did with throwing saying it was invalid under the commerce clause, but valid under taxing).  But Kennedy voted the right way!  This is a betrayal by Roberts. :banghead:

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Revolution on June 28, 2012, 01:19:30 PM
Severely disappointed in the USSRC today. However, I agree that this is Nov. '10 all over again. Leftists may be driven out of politics for a good long time come Nevember. Imagine what we could do; how we could flourish with 4 years of NO DUmmies in high places.

I've just about had it with politics with this vote today. Holder BETTER be found to be in contempt!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Carl on June 28, 2012, 01:26:58 PM
Very good point. Totally correct. And totally moot in this case.

If someone with standing were to file suit that it was a tax (as decided by the USSC) that originated in the Senate, then you might have something once it finally reached the USSC. Til then, not a relevant argument.

That was my point,challenge it on that grounds and toss the whole damn thing.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 28, 2012, 01:44:49 PM
Severely disappointed in the USSRC today. However, I agree that this is Nov. '10 all over again. Leftists may be driven out of politics for a good long time come Nevember. Imagine what we could do; how we could flourish with 4 years of NO DUmmies in high places.

I've just about had it with politics with this vote today. Holder BETTER be found to be in contempt!

Do yall realize the fodder we could bring over here from the DUmp  :lmao:  It would be EPIC fodder  :yahoo:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 01:48:17 PM
When I first heard that Roberts wrote the opinion, I assumed that it was because Kennedy voted to uphold, and Roberts wanted to at least provide an opinion that sort of smacked down the law while upholding it (which he did with throwing saying it was invalid under the commerce clause, but valid under taxing).  But Kennedy voted the right way!  This is a betrayal by Roberts. :banghead:



If that was his reason in voting, that ****er is derelict.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Revolution on June 28, 2012, 01:48:29 PM
Do yall realize the fodder we could bring over here from the DUmp  :lmao:  It would be EPIC fodder  :yahoo:

It was pretty damn entertaining in 2010, and after the recall. That was nothing though. It would be as if ChimpyMcHitler were back in office.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: WinOne4TheGipper on June 28, 2012, 02:15:45 PM
If that was his reason in voting, that ****er is derelict.

If Kennedy was voting in favor, Roberts could have voted in favor as well just to be able to assign himself the opinion, and conservative heat would be on Kennedy.  But Kennedy voted the right way.  Roberts did not.  Roberts has no excuse.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 28, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
Here's an argument from my sports board:

Quote from: 'MonarchManiac'
Quote from: 'DaSaintFan'
Quote from: 'MonarchManiac'
Right now, the federal government can tax individuals in only a few ways:  SS, Medicare, and Income tax (which took a friggin constitutional amendment for them to even collect).  We just effectively gave them the power to tax us for ANYTHING.  You seriously think this is a good idea?

unfortunately Monarch... Article 7 says otherwise..

Quote
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;  but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

So uhm... all those waivers???   Let's see how the WH spins the "no taxes for some"...  argument now.

And if someone like Rand Paul or Jim Demint doesn't point this one out, I'll be really Disappointed in some of our major Fiscal conservatives...


Quote
Because this authority already exists, and yet they pulled this crap, I think it will hurt them... Bad... With independents, and even some democrats

Again, let's see what happens when some voters find out their companies aren't going to be renewing their employee insurance policies...

Yes - BUT - taxation can only come if the use of the funds goes to the General Welfare of the people.

"[T]he [General Welfare] clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. … It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution. … But the adoption of the broader construction leaves the power to spend subject to limitations. … [T]he powers of taxation and appropriation extend only to matters of national, as distinguished from local, welfare."


So, A) this tax does NOT provide for "General Welfare"  it only provides a benefit to a select few (those without health care coverage)


In addition,  this is a non apportioned tax.  Read the following about the apportionment clause:

Apportionment of direct taxes

Language elsewhere in the Constitution also expressly limits the taxing power. Article I, Section 9 has more than one clause so addressed. Clause 4 states:

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
Generally, a direct tax is subject to the apportionment rule, meaning taxes must be imposed among the states in proportion to each state's population in respect to that state's share of the whole national population. For example: As of the 2000 Census, nearly 34 million people populated California (CA). At the same time, the national population was 281.5 million people. This gave CA a 12 percent share of the national population, roughly. Were Congress to impose a direct tax in order to raise $1 trillion before the next census, the taxpayers of CA would be required to fund 12 percent of the total amount: $120 billion dollars.

Apportionment and income taxes

Before 1895, direct taxes were understood to be limited to "capitation or poll taxes" (Hylton v. United States)[35] and "taxes on lands and buildings, and general assessments, whether on the whole property of individuals or on their whole real or personal estate" (Springer v. United States).[36] The decision in Springer went further in declaring that all income taxes were indirect taxes—or more specifically, "within the category of an excise or duty."[36] However, in 1895 income taxes derived from property such as interest, dividends, and rent (imposed under an 1894 Act) were treated as direct taxes by the Supreme Court in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co. and were ruled to be subject to the requirement of apportionment.[37] As the income taxes imposed under the 1894 Act were not apportioned in such a manner, they were held unconstitutional. It was not the income tax per se, but the lack of a provision for its apportionment as a direct tax which made the tax unconstitutional.

The resulting case law prohibiting unapportioned taxes on incomes derived from property was later eliminated by the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment in 1913. The text of the amendment was clear in its aim:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on income, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Shortly after, in 1916, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad that under the Sixteenth Amendment income taxes were constitutional even though unapportioned, just as the amendment had provided.[38] In subsequent cases, the courts have interpreted the Sixteenth Amendment and the Brushaber decision as standing for the rule that the amendment allows income taxes on "wages, salaries, commissions, etc. without apportionment."[39]


So - this tax has not been apportioned as a Direct Tax.  I do not see where the precedent to take this action lies.  This is not a good idea.


Both guys are conservatives.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Ptarmigan on June 28, 2012, 02:35:51 PM
We will just have to wait for congress and Romney to repeal it. Top reps in congress said yesterday that if it is upheld, they will start the repeal process.

Justice Roberts turned liberal today.

I had high expectations for him. I wish William Rehnquist was still alive.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Ptarmigan on June 28, 2012, 02:38:48 PM
You guys aren't looking at the BIG picture. For the first time in history a precedent has been set that mandates you to buy something JUST for Damn living. They can now force you to buy ANY ****ing thing. Romney getting elected is going to fix it? Roberts stupid ass was a Damn Bush appointee. R and D. All the ****ing same. Progressive pieces of fly-covered dog shit.

Progressives are everywhere.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Ptarmigan on June 28, 2012, 02:41:34 PM
What happened today is a tragedy, from now on our government can force us to behave in any way, or buy any product they see fit, all they have to do is classify it as a tax. You still don't want to drive a Chevy Volt? that's cool we won't force you to buy one, but in April we will tax you for driving a gas powered vehicle.  :banghead:

The worst part is, one of our own is who made this possible. At least when we can point at the libs and blame them we can still have some faith in our people, but after today who can we trust?

I'd say stick a fork in us, we are done, but I refuse to give up, I may not be able to do much, but when I vote I will vote for people who will promise to take our republic back to being a republic, and away from the 0bama dictatorship that we have become.

It's a travesty my friend. Another word for tax increase and government control. We're heading the road that befell many nations.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Ptarmigan on June 28, 2012, 02:42:42 PM
Severely disappointed in the USSRC today. However, I agree that this is Nov. '10 all over again. Leftists may be driven out of politics for a good long time come Nevember. Imagine what we could do; how we could flourish with 4 years of NO DUmmies in high places.

I've just about had it with politics with this vote today. Holder BETTER be found to be in contempt!

It set the economy back. 2010 was looking to be a make it break it before Obamacare came.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Revolution on June 28, 2012, 02:51:13 PM
I still have to have faith. Faith is all one can have at points.

Oh, and Pelousy, and the black caucus just walked.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Ptarmigan on June 28, 2012, 02:54:43 PM
(http://freedomslighthouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/obamacare.jpg)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: trentamj on June 28, 2012, 03:10:15 PM
This was an AA (Affirmative Action)-based ruling which occurred because Roberts succumbed to leftl-wing mau-mauiing.  :hammer:
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Freeper on June 28, 2012, 05:03:59 PM
What bothers me most, is Roberts admitted that under the commerce clause it was not Constitutional, then he goes and fixes the law for them so he can uphold it, by declaring it a tax.  :banghead:

What I don't understand is, if it is a tax how could he rule on it before the tax was implemented?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: rich_t on June 28, 2012, 05:36:53 PM
What bothers me most, is Roberts admitted that under the commerce clause it was not Constitutional, then he goes and fixes the law for them so he can uphold it, by declaring it a tax.  :banghead:

What I don't understand is, if it is a tax how could he rule on it before the tax was implemented?

Bingo.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: CG6468 on June 28, 2012, 07:43:08 PM
Bingo.

The supremes don't make laws; that's the responsibility of the congress.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Freeper on June 28, 2012, 08:06:29 PM
The supremes don't make laws; that's the responsibility of the congress.

Justice Roberts made the law today.

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Maxparrish on June 29, 2012, 12:16:32 AM
The short answer is...YES. Justice Roberts (Bush Jr.s choice) has now made it legal for Congress to pass any law to enforce a mandate to purchase any service or product they deem for your own or societies good. You have no choice. NONE. The state may punish you for any free choice you make, or for not making the choice at all.

As a practical matter you will pay a fine of 95 dollars or one percent of your income if you do not purchase government approved insurance (the greater of the two). My 2018 (or so) the fine will increase to 2 1/2 percent of your salary.

Roberts was always suspect by folks in the know (e.g. Ann Coulter warned us 7 years ago) and Bush Jr blew it nearly as bad as daddy Bush (who appointed Souter, a hard core leftwinger).

With leaders like this, we are so scre.....

Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Revolution on June 29, 2012, 03:30:36 AM
^ Screwed? "effed?" Just plain ****ed?

I think one of those is what you meant to say.  :-) Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 29, 2012, 07:59:32 AM
Independence Day is going to feel damned hollow after this.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Rebel on June 29, 2012, 08:35:27 AM
Quote
Outside Independence Hall when the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended, Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin,

"Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?"

With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded,

"A republic, if you can keep it."


I'm sincerely apologize, Mr. Franklin. What you had envisioned has been lost. :(
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Benjamin Parish on June 29, 2012, 08:53:26 AM
Or can be manipulated to the point it is indeed worthless. Like someone else said, it was a good country while it lasted. Before long, nothing differentiates us from the shitholes that are nearly bankrupt in Europe. :banghead:

This.

Though, I wont knock the decision, as it being constitutional under precedent, and in regard to congresses ability to tax. After all, the law is no different than social security, in those regards (except that you can opt-out of the program altogether, if willing to pay a substantial fine).

(Not as if I agree with the law, though. Ideologically, this law is sh!t)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Benjamin Parish on June 29, 2012, 08:56:27 AM

I'm sincerely apologize, Mr. Franklin. What you had envisioned has been lost. :(

Its been lost since the civil war, and Abe Lincoln's big government @$$...

And what happened yesterday was no different than what has been taking place for over 100 years in this country.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 29, 2012, 08:57:39 AM
This.

Though, I wont knock the decision, as it being constitutional under precedent, and in regard to congresses ability to tax. After all, the law is no different than social security, in those regards (except that you can opt-out of the program altogether, if willing to pay a substantial fine).

(Not as if I agree with the law, though. Ideologically, this law is sh!t)

It is not Constitutional under precedent. This law had no precedent in what it set before the Court.

Having to pay a fine to not participate is not what anyone sane understands as "opting out." We are still being COMMANDED to buy a product OR ELSE. Social Security does NOT do that. Believe what you want to believe.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 29, 2012, 09:00:00 AM
Its been lost since the civil war, and Abe Lincoln's big government @$$...

And what happened yesterday was no different than what has been taking place for over 100 years in this country.

I agree with everything above, you are absolutely correct about what the Civil War did to us, but if we're in the 7th Circle of Hell, is there some reason we needed to be dragged down to the 10th Circle of Hell?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Benjamin Parish on June 29, 2012, 09:08:02 AM
I agree with everything above, you are absolutely correct about what the Civil War did to us, but if we're in the 7th Circle of Hell, is there some reason we needed to be dragged down to the 10th Circle of Hell?

Momentum has a way of working like that.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 29, 2012, 09:17:17 AM
It is not Constitutional under precedent. This law had no precedent in what it set before the Court.

Having to pay a fine to not participate is not what anyone sane understands as "opting out." We are still being COMMANDED to buy a product OR ELSE. Social Security does NOT do that. Believe what you want to believe.

There used to be a time when you opted out with an employer and they'd pay you a small stipend because of the money they saved on premium. Here you opt out and you get fined...really?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Gina on June 29, 2012, 09:52:34 AM
So say you don't pay for your own insurance and you do pay the tax. Does that mean when you get sick you are screwed? You may not go to the ER and get help? You had your chance? Because I think it should mean that if not then wtf does this tax improve in healthcare
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: jtyangel on June 29, 2012, 10:15:01 AM
So say you don't pay for your own insurance and you do pay the tax. Does that mean when you get sick you are screwed? You may not go to the ER and get help? You had your chance? Because I think it should mean that if not then wtf does this tax improve in healthcare

That was my understanding. At first, I thought too it meant you'd be covered under something, but I think this was the stink with the DUmmies about single payer. They know you aren't umbrelled under any sort of government plan like their favorite socialist shitholes so you basically are penalized for not having something. this was the stink that the sensible ones had--if you couldn't afford insurance, how does penalizing you and you still don't have it help any.

What I was eluding to is some hospital administrator was talking about how this will unclutter the ER...ok, maybe they will move people who didn't have insurance before out of there, but what of those forced to drop it who don't qualify for any assistance? They will take the place of those leaving the ER. Not to mention, if the uninsured now move into doctor's offices, how long will the wait be for an appointment? Many people will be forced back into the ER because they can't wait 6 weeks to see their primary care physician. Somehow some people think this solves the supply of doctors problem that's already there. they are just shuffling the problem around.

That's a side rant though. Sorry Gina. This whole thing makes my blood boil.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Bad Dog on June 29, 2012, 01:46:44 PM
Man I'm so glad Dinglers and Ben have found each other.  Match made in heaven.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Revolution on June 30, 2012, 03:40:57 AM
This is great news. I can barely afford to keep a roof over my head, food in the fridge and gas in the car and now I have to find some way to pay for health insurance.

I think I'll call it a tax on the un/underemployed.

Thank you John Roberts. What the **** were you thinking?

I'll have to agree 110% with you, Mike. I'm in the same boat. Except for the fact that being visually impaired means I can't use a vehicle to go from place to place. Thus making it harder for me to get a job except in my immediate area. 5-10mile radius. Plus, the impairment weakens me on a few other things in that realm. I feel it is compounded for me, actually.

However, this Obamacare bullshit makes it exponentially harder. Not just on me, I realize, but all of us!

**** you, Justice Roberts!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: seahorse513 on June 30, 2012, 07:24:46 AM
Why Obamacare Won't Work
[youtube=425,350]3S9dwP-fV3o[/youtube]
Thanks to Chris for this short film. It helped me get a little bit better understanding of the situation......
Now I to figure out the difference between a mandate and a tax....
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 30, 2012, 09:42:00 AM
Man I'm so glad Dinglers and Ben have found each other.  Match made in heaven.


The wit, it's nearly too much.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Bad Dog on June 30, 2012, 09:58:45 AM

The wit, it's nearly too much.


No really,  I'm serial.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on June 30, 2012, 10:01:36 AM
The more and more I think about this, the more and more I hope this was done by Justice Roberts to keep Obama from getting re-elected. If not, then he can **** OFF!
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Bad Dog on June 30, 2012, 10:04:25 AM
The more and more I think about this, the more and more I hope this was done by Justice Roberts to keep Obama from getting re-elected. If not, then he can **** OFF!

I'm trying to tell myself that too.  But, I feel I might be lying.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Danglars on June 30, 2012, 11:25:13 AM
No really,  I'm serial.

Stop. Please. You're killing me.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: BlueStateSaint on July 04, 2012, 06:42:30 AM
I'm trying to tell myself that too.  But, I feel I might be lying.

I think Kyle might be onto something in his line of reasoning.  Now that the SCOTUS has called it a 'tax,' even though the Oministration and Romney's aides do not, the Democrats own it lock, stock, and barrel.  I've heard Oministration shills say that "the more the American people know about this, the more they will like it," and they must be on LSD or 'bath salts' to be able to say that with a straight face.  A majority of the American voting public does not like this, and will vote accordingly in November.  Seniors will face the 'death panels,' and they are the most reliable voting bloc there is.  Guess what?  Yes, Mitch McConnell said it would be 'difficult' to repeal the Obamatax, but it is possible.  We need to work our collective fourth points' of contact off to make the political conditions ideal for said repeal, which means that we need to work to elect Conservatives (almost entirely Republican) en masse this November. 
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Lacarnut on July 04, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
I think Kyle might be onto something in his line of reasoning.  Now that the SCOTUS has called it a 'tax,' even though the Oministration and Romney's aides do not, the Democrats own it lock, stock, and barrel.  I've heard Oministration shills say that "the more the American people know about this, the more they will like it," and they must be on LSD or 'bath salts' to be able to say that with a straight face.  A majority of the American voting public does not like this, and will vote accordingly in November.  Seniors will face the 'death panels,' and they are the most reliable voting bloc there is.  Guess what?  Yes, Mitch McConnell said it would be 'difficult' to repeal the Obamatax, but it is possible.  We need to work our collective fourth points' of contact off to make the political conditions ideal for said repeal, which means that we need to work to elect Conservatives (almost entirely Republican) en masse this November. 

I disagree that Obamacare will be difficult to repeal. Repubs just need to pick up 6 or 7 Senate seats and pass it under reconciliation with 51 votes like the Democrats did. Or, Romney can tell business that he will not enforce the mandatory provision. Executive orders work both ways. Plus, any funding to implement Obamacare can be cut off by the House.

RINO's like Boehner, McConnell and Roberts do not want to seem partisan. That kind of thinking will not get the job done.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Bad Dog on July 04, 2012, 09:18:37 AM
I disagree that Obamacare will be difficult to repeal. Repubs just need to pick up 6 or 7 Senate seats and pass it under reconciliation with 51 votes like the Democrats did. Or, Romney can tell business that he will not enforce the mandatory provision. Executive orders work both ways. Plus, any funding to implement Obamacare can be cut off by the House.

RINO's like Boehner, McConnell and Roberts do not want to seem partisan. That kind of thinking will not get the job done.

As I recall, there was a big kerflufle at the time it passed that the dems. allocated funding 10 yrs. out.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Lacarnut on July 04, 2012, 09:51:00 AM
As I recall, there was a big kerflufle at the time it passed that the dems. allocated funding 10 yrs. out.

You got me on that one. However, Congress holds the pursestrings and if they want to defund a program, I would think that they could. Let the media and liberals raise hell. I don't care. Pisslosi said it is going to be my way or the highway. I hope the wimps in the Repub party remember that but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on July 04, 2012, 11:14:54 AM
Yep, congress does have the power to cut off the Obamacare funding. Which is what I think they might do if they can't get it repealed.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Comet on July 06, 2012, 01:04:23 PM
Only two more years and we will have government-run health care!!!!!

Personally, I do not believe allowing our government, who has us almost sixteen trillion in the hole, running our health care industry is remotely a good idea.

Then again, I am for less government, not more.

This is a huge victory for most Democrats who want more government.

Personally I would have preferred the government to fix the problem as opposed to shoving everyone aside and going hands-on by now running the health care system. And that problem lies with the health insurance companies.

You see, the free market works best when you have many companies competing against one another. When that occurs, products and services are cheaper and of higher quality. When there are only a handful of competitors, those said products and services have a tendency to suffer from poor quality and be more expensive.

Enter the health insurance industry.

In our current health insurance industry, there are very few competitors, and one of the major reasons the health care industry is in such shambles. Because of a lack of competition, they are allowed to get away with charging outrageous prices and engage in other slimy and shady practices.

And because the insurance companies charge so much, they end up making health insurance difficult for citizens and small businesses to afford. So you wind up having many people uninsured. But those uninsured still get sick and need to occasionally go to the hospital. What happens then? We treat them and send them home with a bill they will never be able to repay. And in turn, this causes the price of health insurance to climb higher and higher, which in turn causes fewer and fewer people to afford health insurance.

It is a vicious cycle that only intensifies and gradually becomes worse.

So what does Obama do? Does he fix the specific problem? Does he find a way to stop insurance companies from charging rates and fees most Americans cannot afford?

Nope. He merely decides the best course of action is for the government, who is about as responsible as Lindsay Lohan on a weekend bender, to run our nation's health care system.

This is bad, bad, bad, ladies and gentlemen. Especially in our current medical climate where there are a shortage of doctors in many fields in this country. With the number of insured citizens suddenly skyrocketing, they will be swamped beyond belief. You will also find this will make the patient/doctor relationship far more distant and strained, as well as create a nightmare waiting list for simple operations and procedures. One thing you will see is many of the doctors will simply leave for the private sector to get away with the chaos of the government running the health care show. You see this quite a bit in Britain. Many of the doctors there merely deal in private as opposed to dealing with the nightmare of the dreaded government/insurance company duo.

I am highly disappointed in Obama for choosing to have the government take over and run the health care industry as opposed to fixing the actual problem, which is the insurance companies.

One thing is for certain; this may wind up helping Romney. The vast majority of people in this country were not in favor of the Supreme Court ruling and do not want Obamacare to see the light of day. Romney has already jumped on this bandwagon and promised to repeal it if he becomes president. I am sure many independents and moderates who oppose Obamacare will vote for Romney in hopes he does indeed repeal the ACA. I just hope those people realize Romney cannot repeal Obamacare if he does not have a Republican-majority Senate.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Bad Dog on July 06, 2012, 01:10:00 PM
Only two more years and we will have government-run health care!!!!!

Personally, I do not believe allowing our government, who has us almost sixteen trillion in the hole, running our health care industry is remotely a good idea.

Then again, I am for less government, not more.

This is a huge victory for most Democrats who want more government.

Personally I would have preferred the government to fix the problem as opposed to shoving everyone aside and going hands-on by now running the health care system. And that problem lies with the health insurance companies.

You see, the free market works best when you have many companies competing against one another. When that occurs, products and services are cheaper and of higher quality. When there are only a handful of competitors, those said products and services have a tendency to suffer from poor quality and be more expensive.

Enter the health insurance industry.

In our current health insurance industry, there are very few competitors, and one of the major reasons the health care industry is in such shambles. Because of a lack of competition, they are allowed to get away with charging outrageous prices and engage in other slimy and shady practices.

And because the insurance companies charge so much, they end up making health insurance difficult for citizens and small businesses to afford. So you wind up having many people uninsured. But those uninsured still get sick and need to occasionally go to the hospital. What happens then? We treat them and send them home with a bill they will never be able to repay. And in turn, this causes the price of health insurance to climb higher and higher, which in turn causes fewer and fewer people to afford health insurance.

It is a vicious cycle that only intensifies and gradually becomes worse.

So what does Obama do? Does he fix the specific problem? Does he find a way to stop insurance companies from charging rates and fees most Americans cannot afford?

Nope. He merely decides the best course of action is for the government, who is about as responsible as Lindsay Lohan on a weekend bender, to run our nation's health care system.

This is bad, bad, bad, ladies and gentlemen. Especially in our current medical climate where there are a shortage of doctors in many fields in this country. With the number of insured citizens suddenly skyrocketing, they will be swamped beyond belief. You will also find this will make the patient/doctor relationship far more distant and strained, as well as create a nightmare waiting list for simple operations and procedures. One thing you will see is many of the doctors will simply leave for the private sector to get away with the chaos of the government running the health care show. You see this quite a bit in Britain. Many of the doctors there merely deal in private as opposed to dealing with the nightmare of the dreaded government/insurance company duo.

I am highly disappointed in Obama for choosing to have the government take over and run the health care industry as opposed to fixing the actual problem, which is the insurance companies.

One thing is for certain; this may wind up helping Romney. The vast majority of people in this country were not in favor of the Supreme Court ruling and do not want Obamacare to see the light of day. Romney has already jumped on this bandwagon and promised to repeal it if he becomes president. I am sure many independents and moderates who oppose Obamacare will vote for Romney in hopes he does indeed repeal the ACA. I just hope those people realize Romney cannot repeal Obamacare if he does not have a Republican-majority Senate.

Ok, who gave Vesta a sock puppet to play with?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: BlueStateSaint on July 06, 2012, 01:24:14 PM
Ok, who gave Vesta a sock puppet to play with?

Can't be Vesta.  Punctuation and spelling are a lot better than hers'.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: IassaFTots on July 06, 2012, 01:28:36 PM
Check out Intros and Welcomes.  He's our newest newbie!   :-)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Comet on July 06, 2012, 01:29:55 PM
Check out Intros and Welcomes.  He's our newest newbie!   :-)

Do I receive some form of patch for that honor?
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Bad Dog on July 06, 2012, 01:30:09 PM
Check out Intros and Welcomes.  He's our newest newbie!   :-)

I know.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Chris_ on July 06, 2012, 01:31:33 PM
Do I receive some form of patch for that honor?
Sorry, it's not in the budget this year.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: IassaFTots on July 06, 2012, 02:36:09 PM
I know.

I know you know but do you know what I know?   :)
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Lacarnut on July 06, 2012, 03:14:28 PM
Do I receive some form of patch for that honor?

Nope. You get a star after so many posts.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: sybilll on July 06, 2012, 11:42:24 PM
Paul Ryan: "We win, we repeal". http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/05/Paul-Ryan-We-Win-We-Repeal
Hell to the yes.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: Kyle Ricky on July 07, 2012, 11:47:20 AM
Paul Ryan: "We win, we repeal". http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/05/Paul-Ryan-We-Win-We-Repeal
Hell to the yes.

That is two. Him and Eric Cantor. I like them both.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: rich_t on July 07, 2012, 07:13:32 PM
Quote
But those uninsured still get sick and need to occasionally go to the hospital. What happens then? We treat them and send them home with a bill they will never be able to repay. And in turn, this causes the price of health insurance to climb higher and higher, which in turn causes fewer and fewer people to afford health insurance.

Close but not quite.  It causes the cost of health CARE to go up, not health care INSURANCE.

Although one can reasonably argue that the higher the cost of health care, the higher health care insurance rates may eventually go up.
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: lowwing_99 on July 14, 2012, 05:34:14 PM
If this law is so great that our FEDERAL OVER LORDS gave us how come they don't have to participate in it, & how come there is over 700 waivers to opt out of This mess. :mad: :mad:

http://redwhitebluenews.com/?p=14509
Title: Re: Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 16, 2012, 06:35:34 AM
You know, for all the taxes/penalties/fines buried in the Obamacare bill, I have never seen any mention of where one dime of all that new government money was going to purchase/pay for any healthcare.