The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Texacon on March 22, 2012, 03:47:11 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002452403#post22
Calling Docstew and the other paratroopers here. I have a question. I don't question people's claims of military service unless I know something for positive sure. Most of this post I can agree with but there is a statement here that is bothering the hell out of me. It's in bold below.
USArmyParatrooper (1,802 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
I got to jump out of a Blackhawk for the first time today! (PICS)
Last edited Wed Mar 21, 2012, 04:32 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
(Cross Posted from a comic book nerd website I frequent)
Hello all,
So finally today I got to jump out of a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter for the first time, and find out why those who've gotten to jump them rave so much about them.
Most of our jumps are from C-130's and C-17's (fixed wing), and to be honest there's not a lot of fun factor there. You go through about 6-8 hours of pre-jump headaches, when you're jumping full combat load wearing your chute and all your gear is literally painful, it's cramped and you're stepping all over each other trying to prepare to exit the aircraft. All of this for about 30 seconds (guessing here) of free fall and a very hard landing.
Jumping the Blackhawks about 75% of the BS goes away. We lined up with 22 different chocks, and three birds making very rapid back and forth runs. Without going into the boring details, you essentially mount the bird, sit on the edge with your feet hanging off and when the jumpmaster says "Go!" just push off and away you go. The jump elevation was (I heard 1000 and someone else said 1250) above ground level. Normal fixed wing training exercises are from 800 feet. Lots and lots of time to enjoy the view.
Some guys have been known to take photos while they're in mid air. I can neither confirm nor deny whether I've ever done it, but if the wrong person catches you you can get in a lot of trouble. It's a safety violation.
Any idea what the hell this guys talking about?? 30 seconds of free fall? Hell you count to 4 not 30! And as I remember the ride down is longer than 30 seconds too. What gives?
There are some pics at the link. From what I can see none of those on the ground have their chutes or the bags we had to carry to put the chutes in (I'm having a brain cramp here and can't remember what the damn bag was called but we put the mains in the back then snapped the reserve to it and slung it over our head).
I also don't remember stepping all over each other in the 130's and 141's trying to get out. We stood up and the outboard and inboard jumpers simply intermingled.
I've been out for almost 30 years so maybe things have changed ....
KC
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Methinks someone found their long-hidden stash of LSD.
:panic: :panic: :panic: :panic:
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Lots and lots of time to enjoy the view???
From that altitude it takes somewhere around ten seconds to hit the ground. :banghead:
If that noob wants time, he should go HALO.
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Lots and lots of time to enjoy the view???
From that altitude it takes somewhere around ten seconds to hit the ground. :banghead:
If that noob wants time, he should go HALO.
My jumps in Airborne school were from 1,250 feet and we had quite a nice ride down. I don't know how long it was but certainly longer than 30 seconds. Jumps when I was with the 82nd were from 800 feet and while that is considerably lower we still took longer than 30 seconds to hit the ground.
I can't figure out his 30 second free fall statement.
Hell, maybe my memory is just faulty.
KC
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My jumps in Airborne school were from 1,250 feet and we had quite a nice ride down. I don't know how long it was but certainly longer than 30 seconds. Jumps when I was with the 82nd were from 800 feet and while that is considerably lower we still took longer than 30 seconds to hit the ground.
I can't figure out his 30 second free fall statement.
Hell, maybe my memory is just faulty.
You can reach the ground in much less than thirty seconds if a DUmpmonkey packs your chute.
This guy is another phony soldier, in the tradition of TomInTib, numbersBoo, and DUmotex.
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You can reach the ground in much less than thirty seconds if a DUmpmonkey packs your chute.
This guy is another phony soldier, in the tradition of TomInTib, numbersBoo, and DUmotex.
Like I said, I don't like to call anyone's military service into question unless I'm 100% positive. It just looks to me like he's one of the guys standing around watching a Hollywood jump but I could be wrong.
KC
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Depends on the temperature, doesn't it? I saw, I think it was at Lewis so it must have been Rangers, they jump, most came down gradually, but this one seemed to stay up there forever. It was a helicopter jump.
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My jumps in Airborne school were from 1,250 feet and we had quite a nice ride down. I don't know how long it was but certainly longer than 30 seconds. Jumps when I was with the 82nd were from 800 feet and while that is considerably lower we still took longer than 30 seconds to hit the ground.
I can't figure out his 30 second free fall statement.
Hell, maybe my memory is just faulty.
KC
Well.....strictly from a physics point of view, a 30 second free-fall from 1000 feet, wil land you in a skin sack of broken bones with an unopened parachute on your back.......just say'n.....
doc
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Like I said, I don't like to call anyone's military service into question unless I'm 100% positive. It just looks to me like he's one of the guys standing around watching a Hollywood jump but I could be wrong.
KC
I'm trying to figure out where the jump zone is...doesn't look like Bragg.
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I'm trying to figure out where the jump zone is...doesn't look like Bragg.
I didn't think so either unless it was St. Mere Eglise. All the ones we dropped on were flat and sandy.
KC
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Scratch that. It looks too big for St. Mere. Best I remember anyway.
KC
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I call bs....
I was 82nd Airborne back in the 70's and 80's. There was NO FREEFALLING EVER in paratroop operations. As far as I know, only true special ops (Rangers, Special Forces, MAYBE rescue units) has free-fall capability.
(I was in SF for awhile as well, but never HALO'd, which stands for "High Altitude Low Opening" jumps which require freefalling)
As to the 30 second free fall distance...
Essentially, the following equation calculates the distance travelled from a 30 second free fall from a fixed point in the sky:
d = (1/2) x gt2, where d = distance, t = 30, and g = 9.8 m/s2 (near the surface of the earth).
So, campers the equation comes out to this:
d = (1/2) x (9.8 x 302
which comes out to, oh, say... piddle paddle...
4410 meters...
Yes, that is over 2 and a half MILES... over 13 thousand FEET folks!!
I Would call bullshit...
HOWEVER, in his defense, I BELIEVE he meant that the entire DROP time was 30 seconds. The normal drop time of a normal 200 pound in a T-120 parachute is about 32 feet (10m) per second, so if he jumps from about 1000 feet up, then he's pretty close.
(And I ONLY come to his defense because he claims he's 82nd; he's got a lot of the terminology right that doesn't come from popular media).
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Depends on the temperature, doesn't it? I saw, I think it was at Lewis so it must have been Rangers, they jump, most came down gradually, but this one seemed to stay up there forever. It was a helicopter jump.
I don't remember temperature ever affecting our descent time ... WIND on the other hand ... wow.
KC
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My jumps in Airborne school were from 1,250 feet and we had quite a nice ride down. I don't know how long it was but certainly longer than 30 seconds. Jumps when I was with the 82nd were from 800 feet and while that is considerably lower we still took longer than 30 seconds to hit the ground.
I can't figure out his 30 second free fall statement.
Hell, maybe my memory is just faulty.
KC
That's the big one.
I suspect the lad is trying to impress the DUmp girls.
Kid should be a bit more careful when there's a bunch of you old farts that know better.
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I call bs....
I was 82nd Airborne back in the 70's and 80's. There was NO FREEFALLING EVER in paratroop operations. As far as I know, only true special ops (Rangers, Special Forces, MAYBE rescue units) has free-fall capability.
No, we always used static lines at the 82nd but I thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say ... Ok, I could call the 4 second count as a 'free fall'. Using that we know he couldn't be talking about the exit to opening shock. That brings me to the ride down. I remember it being longer than 30 seconds and MAYBE he's talking about that but ....
I don't know. It's looking kind of bad for our OP here.
KC
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I call bs....
I was 82nd Airborne back in the 70's and 80's. There was NO FREEFALLING EVER in paratroop operations. As far as I know, only true special ops (Rangers, Special Forces, MAYBE rescue units) has free-fall capability.
(I was in SF for awhile as well, but never HALO'd, which stands for "High Altitude Low Opening" jumps which require freefalling)
As to the 30 second free fall distance...
Essentially, the following equation calculates the distance travelled from a 30 second free fall from a fixed point in the sky:
d = (1/2) x gt2, where d = distance, t = 30, and g = 9.8 m/s2 (near the surface of the earth).
So, campers the equation comes out to this:
d = (1/2) x (9.8 x 302
which comes out to, oh, say... piddle paddle...
4410 meters...
Yes, that is over 2 and a half MILES... over 13 thousand FEET folks!!
I CALL BULLSHIT
Yeah.....I calculated it omitting atmospheric resistance and came up with 14, 467 feet in 30 seconds......
doc
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Man, that was one HIGH FLYING UH-60.
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My best guess is some DUmpmonkey just rented a paratrooper movie or perhaps some new first person game. I would think that jumping and not repelling out of helicopters would be very elite. I doubt that any DUche would reach for that kind of exceptional success.
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AS I said above, I believe he didn't mean free falling (non-deployed) with chuting (deployed). In a static line jump, 30 seconds is about right, though the landing wouldn't necessarily be any different unless the chute gave him an accelerated descent ratio (maybe 12 meters per second as opposed to 10).
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I call bs....
I was 82nd Airborne back in the 70's and 80's. There was NO FREEFALLING EVER in paratroop operations. As far as I know, only true special ops (Rangers, Special Forces, MAYBE rescue units) has free-fall capability.
(I was in SF for awhile as well, but never HALO'd, which stands for "High Altitude Low Opening" jumps which require freefalling)
As to the 30 second free fall distance...
Essentially, the following equation calculates the distance travelled from a 30 second free fall from a fixed point in the sky:
d = (1/2) x gt2, where d = distance, t = 30, and g = 9.8 m/s2 (near the surface of the earth).
So, campers the equation comes out to this:
d = (1/2) x (9.8 x 302
which comes out to, oh, say... piddle paddle...
4410 meters...
Yes, that is over 2 and a half MILES... over 13 thousand FEET folks!!
I Would call bullshit...
HOWEVER, in his defense, I BELIEVE he meant that the entire DROP time was 30 seconds. The normal drop time of a normal 200 pound in a T-120 parachute is about 32 feet (10m) per second, so if he jumps from about 1000 feet up, then he's pretty close.
(And I ONLY come to his defense because he claims he's 82nd; he's got a lot of the terminology right that doesn't come from popular media).
...and acceleration due to gravity = 32'/sec squared....but then you have to allow for wind drag but you're still hauling ass when you impact the ground.
Lets see, jump from helicopter at 800'....count to 10 by 1,000's....pull ripcord....if you didn't count to slowly....The chute should cover your body nicely.
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The math says someone be lying.. or at least really terrible at estimating time.
1250 = (1/2)*32*t^2
or t^2 = 1250 / 16 or ~78.13
The square root of ~78.13 = 8.84 seconds.
if one assumes an unnatural amount of wind resistance, the entire freefall would be no more than 10 seconds.
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The cherry didn't free fall at all. Blackhawk or other low speed aircraft is a approx. 6-7 fall before the static line deploys your chute. Compare that to a 4 or so sec. fall with high performance aircraft i.e. C-17, C130. He's just a cherry jumper.
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The only thing I know for sure.
If a "doctored" explosive object is thrown from a helicopter flying at 1500 feet, it takes right around eleven seconds to hit the ground.
I know that for a fact. :-)
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The only thing I know for sure.
If a "doctored" explosive object is thrown from a helicopter flying at 1500 feet, it takes right around eleven seconds to hit the ground.
I know that for a fact. :-)
So a DUmmie thrown from a helicopter at 1,500 feet would have about 11 seconds for his "Come to Jesus" moment. I don't think that's enough time to atone for all the evil they do in a lifetime....or just one weekend for that matter.
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So a DUmmie thrown from a helicopter at 1,500 feet would have about 11 seconds for his "Come to Jesus" moment. I don't think that's enough time to atone for all the evil they do in a lifetime....or just one weekend for that matter.
Do they assplode on impact? :???:
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I have only rappeled from a UH-60 and taking 30 seconds to do that would make you a very tempting target from 90 to 100 feet up of course. There maybe some truth to the OP but how much is unknown.
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Do they assplode on impact? :???:
Like watermelons dropped off a 6 story building.
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From the jumps I've seen, if you're free falling for more 30 seconds, you left your chute in the deployment bag hanging on the side of the aircraft.
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I don't remember temperature ever affecting our descent time ... WIND on the other hand ... wow.
KC
Ah, just thought heat updrafts vs. weight might have something to do with this guy hanging In the air so long. Never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane before.
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BTW, they have DZ's on many military installations. When the 35th Sig was airborne and at Bragg, they'd jump on the one at Ft Gordon sometimes. 35th is no longer airborne, and is now on Ft Gordon.
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Like watermelons dropped off a 6 story building.
Cool.
Me fly.
You pitch 'em out.
Don't get to worrin' now.
I used to ride a bike too.
I'll get the hang of it in short order. You'll be just fine. O-)
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I'm shocked that nutcase nadin hasn't chimed in on this thread with a story about all the times she's fast-roped down from a mexican helicopter while under fire.
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I call bs....
I was 82nd Airborne back in the 70's and 80's. There was NO FREEFALLING EVER in paratroop operations. As far as I know, only true special ops (Rangers, Special Forces, MAYBE rescue units) has free-fall capability.
(I was in SF for awhile as well, but never HALO'd, which stands for "High Altitude Low Opening" jumps which require freefalling)
As to the 30 second free fall distance...
Essentially, the following equation calculates the distance travelled from a 30 second free fall from a fixed point in the sky:
d = (1/2) x gt2, where d = distance, t = 30, and g = 9.8 m/s2 (near the surface of the earth).
So, campers the equation comes out to this:
d = (1/2) x (9.8 x 302
which comes out to, oh, say... piddle paddle...
4410 meters...
Yes, that is over 2 and a half MILES... over 13 thousand FEET folks!!
I Would call bullshit...
HOWEVER, in his defense, I BELIEVE he meant that the entire DROP time was 30 seconds. The normal drop time of a normal 200 pound in a T-120 parachute is about 32 feet (10m) per second, so if he jumps from about 1000 feet up, then he's pretty close.
(And I ONLY come to his defense because he claims he's 82nd; he's got a lot of the terminology right that doesn't come from popular media).
If I've done the calculations correctly the 4410 meters would be an even more impressive 4.57 miles when converted to the nadinese.
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If I've done the calculations correctly the 4410 meters would be an even more impressive 4.57 miles when converted to the nadinese.
Is that metric miles or standard miles? :???:
Can that be converted to furlongs per fortnight?
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Wait, he was in freefall for 14587.5 feet after jumping from a helicopter? Uhm, what kind of helicopter was this?
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Yeah.....I calculated it omitting atmospheric resistance and came up with 14, 467 feet in 30 seconds......
doc
I didn't look at either of your posts first. I think he just called floating down in a parachute freefall.
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If this guy is really in the military I applaud him for his service. I do wonder, however, why he would be an active member of a site that refers to our military as baby killers.
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I call bs....
I was 82nd Airborne back in the 70's and 80's. There was NO FREEFALLING EVER in paratroop operations. As far as I know, only true special ops (Rangers, Special Forces, MAYBE rescue units) has free-fall capability.
(I was in SF for awhile as well, but never HALO'd, which stands for "High Altitude Low Opening" jumps which require freefalling)
As to the 30 second free fall distance...
Essentially, the following equation calculates the distance travelled from a 30 second free fall from a fixed point in the sky:
d = (1/2) x gt2, where d = distance, t = 30, and g = 9.8 m/s2 (near the surface of the earth).
So, campers the equation comes out to this:
d = (1/2) x (9.8 x 302
which comes out to, oh, say... piddle paddle...
4410 meters...
Yes, that is over 2 and a half MILES... over 13 thousand FEET folks!!
I Would call bullshit...
HOWEVER, in his defense, I BELIEVE he meant that the entire DROP time was 30 seconds. The normal drop time of a normal 200 pound in a T-120 parachute is about 32 feet (10m) per second, so if he jumps from about 1000 feet up, then he's pretty close.
(And I ONLY come to his defense because he claims he's 82nd; he's got a lot of the terminology right that doesn't come from popular media).
The only problem I have is why isn't he as knowledgeable as you guys? Seems like he is gettin' his info second hand rather than from experience!
DUmmies lie! They lie all the time©!
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This guy is a Tom In Tib clone.
he just found some shots on the net and made up this story
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I have no idea what kind of training a paratrooper gets.
Is it believable that a real paratrooper would be so unaware of terminology that he'd refer to the time descending under an open canopy as "free fall"?
It sounds sort of like someone who might call a SEAL officer a "grunt soldier".
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I have no idea what kind of training a paratrooper gets.
Is it believable that a real paratrooper would be so unaware of terminology that he'd refer to the time descending under an open canopy as "free fall"?
It sounds sort of like someone who might call a SEAL officer a "grunt soldier".
No, that's why it caught my attention.
KC
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I also wanted to make a slight correction. The average weight for an individual paratrooper jump, including gear, is 280 lbs (about 130 KG). That weight, for a T-120, calculates to a 10m/s descent rate (given no major sustainable wind gusts). Without gear, I think the descent rate is about 9m/s, give or take a foot.
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Don't know T-120. I assume that succeeds the Dash 1 Bravo and T-10 Charlie? Again, I've only heard these terms in PT cadences by airborne folk. I'm a leg. ...and I'd prefer to stay that way. ;-)
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I'm trying to figure out where the jump zone is...doesn't look like Bragg.
That's Normandy DZ. This post could be legit, there have been numerous jumps on Normandy lately, including a Blackhawk jump.
As far as the rest of his story, he sounds like a novice jumper who gets his terms confused and/or he likes to exaggerate.
I'd love to have this DUmmy exiting my paratroop door... I bet he pukes and wets himself.
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I also wanted to make a slight correction. The average weight for an individual paratrooper jump, including gear, is 280 lbs (about 130 KG). That weight, for a T-120, calculates to a 10m/s descent rate (given no major sustainable wind gusts). Without gear, I think the descent rate is about 9m/s, give or take a foot.
What is a T-120? The only parachutes in the Army inventory I'm aware of are the T-10D, T-11, M/C1-1D ("Dash 1"), and M/C-6. :confused:
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That's Normandy DZ. This post could be legit, there have been numerous jumps on Normandy lately, including a Blackhawk jump.
As far as the rest of his story, he sounds like a novice jumper who gets his terms confused and/or he likes to exaggerate.
I'd love to have this DUmmy exiting my paratroop door... I bet he pukes and wets himself.
And they're all night jumps!
Thanks for weighing in doc. Like I said above, I don't like to call anyone's military service into question but his statement ate at me.
Looking at the pics I thought there was an outside chance he was nothing more than an observer, took the pics then made up a post.
KC
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What is a T-120? The only parachutes in the Army inventory I'm aware of are the T-10D, T-11, M/C1-1D ("Dash 1"), and M/C-6. :confused:
All we had were the T-10 (I don't know if there was a designator) and the M/C1-1B. What's the difference between the dash 1 Bravo and the dash 1 Delta??
We were allowed to jump the dash 1 Bravo's for a little bit then they made them daytime jumps only due to 'pilot error' at night.
KC
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All we had were the T-10 (I don't know if there was a designator) and the M/C1-1B. What's the difference between the dash 1 Bravo and the dash 1 Delta??
We were allowed to jump the dash 1 Bravo's for a little bit then they made them daytime jumps only due to 'pilot error' at night.
KC
Don't know the technical differences between the -1B and -1D. You'd have to ask a rigger. All I know about em is it's nice to have some small bit of control over the area of earth you're about to smack into at 23.5 ft/sec
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Don't know the technical differences between the -1B and -1D. You'd have to ask a rigger. All I know about em is it's nice to have some small bit of control over the area of earth you're about to smack into at 23.5 ft/sec
Yeah, I liked jumping the dash 1 better. It always amazed me how many times the jump master(s) would tell us; "Remember, when you are checking your canopy you are jumping a dash 1! There is going to be 104 sq. feet of your canopy missing. Do NOT deploy your reserve!!"
You would've thought they were talking to 3 year olds. :whatever:
I know, I know .... you have to take all into account.
KC
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Yeah, I liked jumping the dash 1 better. It always amazed me how many times the jump master(s) would tell us; "Remember, when you are checking your canopy you are jumping a dash 1! There is going to be 104 sq. feet of your canopy missing. Do NOT deploy your reserve!!"
You would've thought they were talking to 3 year olds. :whatever:
I know, I know .... you have to take all into account.
KC
You seem to have forgotten who the majority of paratroopers are. 18-20 yo males who are more brawn than brain, living away from mom and dad for the first time, and so amped up by what they're about to do that they might forget an important detail like that 104 sq ft of missing canopy and revert to training. We also remind them of the six thousand count for jumps from low performance aircraft.
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You seem to have forgotten who the majority of paratroopers are. 18-20 yo males who are more brawn than brain, living away from mom and dad for the first time, and so amped up by what they're about to do that they might forget an important detail like that 104 sq ft of missing canopy and revert to training. We also remind them of the six thousand count for jumps from low performance aircraft.
ds, I've forgotten a LOT of stuff! It's been almost 30 years. Heh. I'm getting old man.
Yeah, I knew why they did it. I remember being a brain dead teenager myself and I was glad to have those reminders back then because it could be a shock to look up and see those big holes in a canopy.
I'm glad there's guys like you out there doc! Hell, my son may be one of those amped up 18-20 year olds in a few weeks. If he keeps talking the way he's talking he may very well hit Bragg and leave to hit Benning shortly. Much to his mother's dismay.
:-)
KC