The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on January 21, 2012, 09:56:36 PM
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cthulu2016
Anyone upset about food stamps is scum
First, food Stamps are an agricultural subsidy, so it's stupid to blame the poor for them. (Farm state senators have always worked to keep the program strong.)
Second, and more importantly, what kind of psycho objects to giving people food?
The usual complaint is that assistance to the poor does NOT go for food. Some people give the homeless food instead of change because they don't want their charity spent on booze or cigarettes, but only on FOOD.
All the 1980s anti-food stamp rhetoric was about people misusing foodstamps. They sell them for a dime on the dollar to buy crack. They work scams to use them to buy cigarettes. Etc.. Nobody would object to actually giving people food...
But now the RW has gotten so degenerate that they actually begrudge people FOOD, straight up.
Don't give that poor person food! She'll probably just eat it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002188696
As usual you geniuses are totally clueless. The whole food stamp thing is not aimed at those on them, it is aimed at 0bama because under his watch, more people than ever in our history are on them, because the job market sucks so bad.
Less people on food stamps would mean, more people working, more people paying taxes to pay for the freebies you goons want. Understand?
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There are 43 matches for the word "shrimp" at the link. I'm going to be looking over my shoulder the next time I pick up a package at the store.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002188696
As usual you geniuses are totally clueless. The whole food stamp thing is not aimed at those on them, it is aimed at 0bama because under his watch, more people than ever in our history are on them, because the job market sucks so bad.
Less people on food stamps would mean, more people working, more people paying taxes to pay for the freebies you goons want. Understand?
Exactly. If you want the basic, you can get the basic. We are not going to supply EBTs capable of buying doritos and fast food, but rather something like the basics. Milk, eggs, bread, fruits, vegetables, etc. You won't starve, but you will be living with basics. You want more, you're going to have to work for more
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Want to live off others? You get bulk government cheese, rice, and beans. Want to eat meat, prepackaged food, OR McDonalds (EBT friendly) get a job and earn your choice.
being born does not allow you to live off of people that produce.
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Obama IS the food stamp President and it's shameful.
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I have been working with the homeless lately. In fact I think I just got the flu from one of them. Anyway....I have no problem with a person with no home using a EBT card at a fast food place since they have no where to store food much less cook it. BUT if you have a home with a fridge and a stove then go to the store.
Yes shelters do feed people but the one I work at moves to diffrent churches and only opens the doors at six. And only operates from November to early March. Two guys decided to stay in a tent in the woods tonight because the new location was too far to walk to their job in the morning.
Damn flu!
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Leftists, ptooey! Anything BUT earn your own keep.
I'm sure that as usual they wouldn't want to be bothered with facts such as conservatives have always been much more philanthropic than the dims, very much disproportionately so.
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I have been working with the homeless lately. In fact I think I just got the flu from one of them. Anyway....I have no problem with a person with no home using a EBT card at a fast food place since they have no where to store food much less cook it. BUT if you have a home with a fridge and a stove then go to the store.
Yes shelters do feed people but the one I work at moves to diffrent churches and only opens the doors at six. And only operates from November to early March. Two guys decided to stay in a tent in the woods tonight because the new location was too far to walk to their job in the morning.
Damn flu!
I realize the emotion in this with the homeless, but there is one thing that just doesn't care and that is the economy. It doesn't care about the homeless, the elderly, anything. It's a bunch of numbers that desperately needs to be fixed. Even if we make EBTs with different levels of purchasing restrictions, there's going to be somebody somewhere that will abuse the system or trick it. Eventually, such as now, it would get out of control. Making a uniform selection of basic essential rations would be cost affective and nobody would starve. Keep in mind, although its sad here, our homeless are far better off than that of the homeless in a lot of other countries. As for not having a stove, maybe someone should start a charity that would give the homeless a frying pan and a lighter.
Sorry to hear about your flu....I had H1N1 two years ago....not pleasant!
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Food stamp programs here in WI are totally fraud laden.
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Food stamp programs here in WI are totally fraud laden.
Here in South Florida, we have people pulling up to collect their stamps in BMWs, and not the old BMWs people buy to say they have one. Newer ones. It's disgusting
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People who receive food stamps eat better than our family and we're a two income family making the average living in Las Vegas. If someone is honestly that hungry, let me know. I'll buy you a decent meal. Just don't harass me about it. Be honest. Tell me you need food for your family. If I can't help you, I know I could send you in the right direction.
We are so blessed in our family right now. We came from, "omg, how are we going to pay this bill?" after I was laid off to "let's have salmon for dinner." And maybe that's not such a big deal to some people, but salmon was such a luxury when we were a one income family.
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I realize the emotion in this with the homeless, but there is one thing that just doesn't care and that is the economy. It doesn't care about the homeless, the elderly, anything. It's a bunch of numbers that desperately needs to be fixed. Even if we make EBTs with different levels of purchasing restrictions, there's going to be somebody somewhere that will abuse the system or trick it. Eventually, such as now, it would get out of control. Making a uniform selection of basic essential rations would be cost affective and nobody would starve. Keep in mind, although its sad here, our homeless are far better off than that of the homeless in a lot of other countries. As for not having a stove, maybe someone should start a charity that would give the homeless a frying pan and a lighter.
Yep. It should be easy enough to have differnt need levels and restricted food items on a modern EBT card.
What really kills me is that some of them get enough money from the gov to live very well. One gets almost 2k month but she is too nuts and strung out to get a home. Giving her money is pretty much pointless. We dont even let her stay at the shelter........she can be a "problem" .
Messed up the quote. I blame the flu.!
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I've never had foodstamps and don't have an idea how the EBT card actually works, but I've learned a few things from someone that gets them. First, she gets stamps for 2 people, herself and her daughter. They get $400 a month, and can easily feed themselves and the baby-daddy for $300 a month. (of course, she shops carefully, the buy basics and cook at home, and sometimes "borrow" milk or other items from the kid's grandmother.) Because they can spare $100 a month, she uses that money for $50 in other things. That's "how it works." She buys $100 worth of groceries for someone and gets $50 cash back to use for whatever they want. (Usually cigarettes and beer.)
Now, this would bother me a lot more if the parents were both worthless bums. As is, I don't care for the baby-daddy much, we've known this couple for quite a while and have never seen him keep a job for more than a few weeks...but he does do odd jobs as he can find them to put gas in the car and pay some bills. But the mother is a full-time college student, so I can see helping them out until she graduates and gets a job. And, of course, in this wonderful Obamaconomy, jobs are very scarce around here...
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Exactly. If you want the basic, you can get the basic. We are not going to supply EBTs capable of buying doritos and fast food, but rather something like the basics. Milk, eggs, bread, fruits, vegetables, etc. You won't starve, but you will be living with basics. You want more, you're going to have to work for more
Yeah, how about no organics too? I know more then a few who probably could afford 'normal' food, but foodstamps help support their Whole Foods and Trader Joe's-I'm-a-moonbat-who-eats-overpriced-food-look-at-me habit. Honestly, unless one has a documented medical condition for the need of foods ONLY sold there(let's say a particular selection of allergen free products) then this is ridiculous. If you can afford those places on food stamps then something tells me you take it away and you could afford to shop at your average chain store with no problems.
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The food stamp program is another example (hope our new pet socialist reads this) where a grand theory of benevolence is splattered against the rock cliff of human nature.
No one honestly begrudges anyone eating or needing a helping hand.
What happens though once installed is the program becomes a bureaucracy that exists to grow itself with no regards to consequences or outcomes.
It may seem cruel and heartless but I do want there to be a stigma attached to using them,not to belittle a person but so that person doesn`t belittle themselves to the point of not wanting better in life.
The truth of the matter is the left never wants a person to better themselves because then government and the power wielded by it isn`t needed.
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The food stamp program is another example (hope our new pet socialist reads this) where a grand theory of benevolence is splattered against the rock cliff of human nature.
No one honestly begrudges anyone eating or needing a helping hand.
What happens though once installed is the program becomes a bureaucracy that exists to grow itself with no regards to consequences or outcomes.
It may seem cruel and heartless but I do want there to be a stigma attached to using them,not to belittle a person but so that person doesn`t belittle themselves to the point of not wanting better in life.
The truth of the matter is the left never wants a person to better themselves because then government and the power wielded by it isn`t needed.
ITA! I have no problem either giving a helping hand, but I do have a problem when the system is abused by people who don't need it or it becomes a crutch and it's easier for people to mooch off the system instead of going out and providing for themselves and their family.
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Okay, DUmmie--you want to know what makes me upset?
California just now made it impossible to get cash from an EBT card. Prior to that, people were using them at such grocery-laden facilities as casinos and cruise ships.
Stop by Wally-World or Market Basket the first weekend of a given month and see what the EBT crowd drives in, what they pile in the cart, and who's pushing the cart full of ciggies and beer behind them (and how they gonna pay for that?)
Oh, and while this might be a bit satirical, all good satire is about 90 percent truth. Don't tell me this shit doesn't happen:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII[/youtube]
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Okay, DUmmie--you want to know what makes me upset?
California just now made it impossible to get cash from an EBT card. Prior to that, people were using them at such grocery-laden facilities as casinos and cruise ships.
Stop by Wally-World or Market Basket the first weekend of a given month and see what the EBT crowd drives in, what they pile in the cart, and who's pushing the cart full of ciggies and beer behind them (and how they gonna pay for that?)
Oh, and while this might be a bit satirical, all good satire is about 90 percent truth. Don't tell me this shit doesn't happen:
You are exactly correct. Ask any Walmart or grocery store cashier about it.
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Nothing chaps my ass more than seeing 3 able bodied persons from the same family all talking on iPhones, then paying for their food with an EBT card. This time of year I average $30/week in my food budget because of high winter utility bills. And I know that around here, there are no cellphones plans less than $80 per month. I know, I priced it for my daughter. Not sure I'd feel better if they were talking on those cheap government cellphones, because hell, taxpayers are paying for those, too.
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Nothing chaps my ass more than seeing 3 able bodied persons from the same family all talking on iPhones, then paying for their food with an EBT card. This time of year I average $30/week in my food budget because of high winter utility bills. And I know that around here, there are no cellphones plans less than $80 per month. I know, I priced it for my daughter. Not sure I'd feel better if they were talking on those cheap government cellphones, because hell, taxpayers are paying for those, too.
Not to mention getting behind them in the drugstore... wearing their bling, talking on high dollar cell phones, wearing high dollar shoes, etc, and then when their scripts come up to $2.00 for something I have to pay out the teeth for cause they are on medicaid, well let's just say it doesn't sit well with me.
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Nothing chaps my ass more than seeing 3 able bodied persons from the same family all talking on iPhones, then paying for their food with an EBT card. This time of year I average $30/week in my food budget because of high winter utility bills. And I know that around here, there are no cellphones plans less than $80 per month. I know, I priced it for my daughter. Not sure I'd feel better if they were talking on those cheap government cellphones, because hell, taxpayers are paying for those, too.
Do they have Virgin Mobile in your area? You can get a phone for around $50 and $35 will get 300 minutes and unlimited texts.
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Nothing chaps my ass more than seeing 3 able bodied persons from the same family all talking on iPhones, then paying for their food with an EBT card. This time of year I average $30/week in my food budget because of high winter utility bills. And I know that around here, there are no cellphones plans less than $80 per month. I know, I priced it for my daughter. Not sure I'd feel better if they were talking on those cheap government cellphones, because hell, taxpayers are paying for those, too.
You mean stuff like this?
(http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/2009-march/michelle_obama_camera.jpg)
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Nothing chaps my ass more than seeing 3 able bodied persons from the same family all talking on iPhones, then paying for their food with an EBT card. This time of year I average $30/week in my food budget because of high winter utility bills. And I know that around here, there are no cellphones plans less than $80 per month. I know, I priced it for my daughter. Not sure I'd feel better if they were talking on those cheap government cellphones, because hell, taxpayers are paying for those, too.
Yes. Some people (DUmmies) are to stoopid to realize that they are poor because of their stoopid spending habits.
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Here in South Florida, we have people pulling up to collect their stamps in BMWs, and not the old BMWs people buy to say they have one. Newer ones. It's disgusting
Or like this douchebag pulling up in a limo with his wife and kids to pick up welfare:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DlFehh0SQ[/youtube]
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I object to paying for their food.
Personally, I don't care if they starve and rot.
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cthulu2016
Anyone upset about food stamps is scum
First, food Stamps are an agricultural subsidy, so it's stupid to blame the poor for them. (Farm state senators have always worked to keep the program strong.)
Second, and more importantly, what kind of psycho objects to giving people food?
The usual complaint is that assistance to the poor does NOT go for food. Some people give the homeless food instead of change because they don't want their charity spent on booze or cigarettes, but only on FOOD.
All the 1980s anti-food stamp rhetoric was about people misusing foodstamps. They sell them for a dime on the dollar to buy crack. They work scams to use them to buy cigarettes. Etc.. Nobody would object to actually giving people food...
But now the RW has gotten so degenerate that they actually begrudge people FOOD, straight up.
Don't give that poor person food! She'll probably just eat it.
How about..... **** you.
I do, asshole. When food stamp people can buy more and better food than me, and I've seen it personally, we got a real problem in this country.
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I've never had foodstamps and don't have an idea how the EBT card actually works, but I've learned a few things from someone that gets them. First, she gets stamps for 2 people, herself and her daughter. They get $400 a month, and can easily feed themselves and the baby-daddy for $300 a month. (of course, she shops carefully, the buy basics and cook at home, and sometimes "borrow" milk or other items from the kid's grandmother.) Because they can spare $100 a month, she uses that money for $50 in other things. That's "how it works." She buys $100 worth of groceries for someone and gets $50 cash back to use for whatever they want. (Usually cigarettes and beer.)
Now, this would bother me a lot more if the parents were both worthless bums. As is, I don't care for the baby-daddy much, we've known this couple for quite a while and have never seen him keep a job for more than a few weeks...but he does do odd jobs as he can find them to put gas in the car and pay some bills. But the mother is a full-time college student, so I can see helping them out until she graduates and gets a job. And, of course, in this wonderful Obamaconomy, jobs are very scarce around here...
I am not sure about other states but in Mass you can use an EBT card at the pumps! They actually have stickers at the Hess gas stations proudly proclaiming that.
I recall a story out of Maine recently where a pair of super geniuses used an EBT card to buy cases of designer water only to dump the contents out in the parking lot to then return the empty's for the cash.
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I am not sure about other states but in Mass you can use an EBT card at the pumps! They actually have stickers at the Hess gas stations proudly proclaiming that.
I recall a story out of Maine recently where a pair of super geniuses used an EBT card to buy cases of designer water only to dump the contents out in the parking lot to then return the empty's for the cash.
As far as I know, in Kansas it only buys food. I'm sure I'd have heard about it if they could run it for anything else.
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As far as I know, in Kansas it only buys food. I'm sure I'd have heard about it if they could run it for anything else.
I'm pretty sure you are right......same here in MO, however you can buy non-food essentials like toilet tissue, soap, toothpaste, laundry detergent, etc. with it.
doc
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Do they have Virgin Mobile in your area? You can get a phone for around $50 and $35 will get 300 minutes and unlimited texts.
I meant a cellphone package that includes data use for the internet. I compared them all.
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I meant a cellphone package that includes data use for the internet. I compared them all.
Virgin mobile includes data for the internet at $35. I use them and I'm grandfathered under the $25 plan, I get unlimited data on my recently purchased smart phone. Granted I don't get the "free" phones this way, but I figure shelling out $80 for a phone and having a monthly bill of $25 is worth it.
It's not a contract either, it's prepaid. For some reason prepaid is now a better deal than contracts, it used to be the other way around.
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Virgin mobile includes data for the internet at $35. I use them and I'm grandfathered under the $25 plan, I get unlimited data on my recently purchased smart phone. Granted I don't get the "free" phones this way, but I figure shelling out $80 for a phone and having a monthly bill of $25 is worth it.
It's not a contract either, it's prepaid. For some reason prepaid is now a better deal than contracts, it used to be the other way around.
Great info, much thanks. Gotta love what the free market is doing to the pricing. My daughter locked in to her plan (2years) in Nov 2010, and seriously, not one plan was less than $80/month.
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Great info, much thanks. Gotta love what the free market is doing to the pricing. My daughter locked in to her plan (2years) in Nov 2010, and seriously, not one plan was less than $80/month.
My daughter has a StaightTalk cell phone, prepaid, $50 a month. She spent $200 on her phone, but she can connect it to her PC and use it as a modem, unlimited data. She takes classes online, and doesn't have to pay to have an internet service.
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I meant a cellphone package that includes data use for the internet. I compared them all.
We've used pre-paid cellphones for about 10 years now, my husband is with Tracfone and I switched to Net10 because they had a better selection of phones. Net10 is awesome, I usually buy minutes when I need them, I'm not a big cellphone user so that works for me, but Net10 has some great packages and 1 of them is their unlimited plan, for $50 a month you get unlimited calls, texts and web, they also have an awesome selection of phones, I have the Net10's version of the Blackberry which is the LG 900G, and because Tracfone and Net 10's browser stinks, if you use the newer phones like my LG or the new Droid phones they have? you can download as an APP either Bolt or Mini-Opera, I downloaded both and I can go anywhere on the web, I've even posted on this board from the phone. It's really a great deal and I get reception everywhere.
Here's their plans:
https://www.net10.com/direct/Purchase?payGo=true
You just put in your zip code and this will tell you what phones will work in your area:
http://www.net10.com/redirect_landing.jsp
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My daughter has a StaightTalk cell phone, prepaid, $50 a month. She spent $200 on her phone, but she can connect it to her PC and use it as a modem, unlimited data. She takes classes online, and doesn't have to pay to have an internet service.
Yep! and StraightTalk is part of the Tracfone/Net10 network.
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Great info, much thanks. Gotta love what the free market is doing to the pricing. My daughter locked in to her plan (2years) in Nov 2010, and seriously, not one plan was less than $80/month.
That's how they compensate for the "free" phones that they offer, I would much rather spend $100 or so on the phone and have a smaller monthly bill, (my smart phone was on sale at Best Buy for $79.99), and if for some reason I can't keep paying the monthly, they simply cut off my phone until I can pay, unlike the contract plans if you find you can't pay, they charge you and arm and a leg plus you have no service.
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Slot machines , beer and flat screen televisions are also O.K. in Mass. when using an EBT card :mad:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1287451&srvc=home&position=comment
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I remember stories of California cards being used in casinos , cruise ships and even in Hawaii.
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Yep! and StraightTalk is part of the Tracfone/Net10 network.
I have a straight talk phone..it has awesome reception. I was lucky, I got my phone as a Black Friday Special. It ran 35.00 normally like 70.00 and i do 30.00 for my card. I really like it.....
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You are exactly correct. Ask any Walmart or grocery store cashier about it.
I could tell you horror stories from the front....It's really wierd but EBT customers are the nastiest!!!!
I think Ebt cards should just cover the basics.
Don't get me going..... :argh: :argh: :argh:
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I saw a woman buy $140 worth of Valentine candy at a Walmart about 12, 13 years ago. I was not the only one in line with a mouth open and eyes bugging out.
I could not believe it. Can I mention she was Black or is that racist ?
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I saw a woman buy $140 worth of Valentine candy at a Walmart about 12, 13 years ago. I was not the only one in line with a mouth open and eyes bugging out.
I could not believe it. Can I mention she was Black or is that racist ?
I see people buy Halloween candy with EBT cards. Sometimes I want to give these people a stern lecture about proper use of the EBT card. :argh: :argh:
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I see people buy Halloween candy with EBT cards. Sometimes I want to give these people a stern lecture about proper use of the EBT card. :argh: :argh:
SEA, I have no idea what an EBT card is, I wonder if I can get one?
First time I ever saw food stamps was in California at a Military Commissary, I went home and checked out the pay scale for the Military and was amazed at how little our men/woman were being paid in cash or allowances.
Today there are sites where one can send coupons near due date to groups that distributes them to family's that need them and food stamps. Always been a long, long list for military housing.
Family's that live OFF base waiting for housing are and were in one heck of a spot. It was the luck of the draw to get housing and IIRC, those in hazard job with couple kids of different sexes were at the top of the list. A 3 bedroom house on government land or base.
Have to realise there was little chance for a Military person to get a second job, or when left alone for months a woman to work while caring for young kids. The waiting list for cheap and SAFE child care was often a couple years and civilian child care cost the earth even 30 years ago.
Food stamps and the need for them by Military family's is a disgrace, who would want to work in the civilian sector subject to the pay and absence from family knowing they had a waiting limit to get a raise and a new stripe pinned on them ? Now I hear the Military is up to no good trying to cut corners with the senior service men/woman by shit canning them when they get just a few years from retirement.
I see nothing wrong with the coupons and food stamps to the family's of those in harms way, gone for 9 months or more, leaving family thousands of miles from home. The dependents deserve better that to have to be looked down on when shopping at the corner market as they ran out of something.
PISS me off big time, so a Military family has family coming in to see them after 2 years absence and the dependent runs out to a civilian store to buy food with food stamps. Some idiot sees them buying a fuc*ing bag of shrimp and pays with food stamps. WTF the civilian may have 30 coupons to take $50.00 off their bill.
Rant, over for the next hour, if the Military cuts benefits to those that need them and worked for them, who are they going to get to defend us, OH yes I forgot the single Gays, those with no dependents, Awesome idea.
Cannot wait to see how woman on Subs will work out, much different from a Skimmer environment. :popcorn: :popcorn:
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We've used pre-paid cellphones for about 10 years now, my husband is with Tracfone and I switched to Net10 because they had a better selection of phones. Net10 is awesome, I usually buy minutes when I need them, I'm not a big cellphone user so that works for me, but Net10 has some great packages and 1 of them is their unlimited plan, for $50 a month you get unlimited calls, texts and web, they also have an awesome selection of phones, I have the Net10's version of the Blackberry which is the LG 900G, and because Tracfone and Net 10's browser stinks, if you use the newer phones like my LG or the new Droid phones they have? you can download as an APP either Bolt or Mini-Opera, I downloaded both and I can go anywhere on the web, I've even posted on this board from the phone. It's really a great deal and I get reception everywhere.
Here's their plans:
https://www.net10.com/direct/Purchase?payGo=true
You just put in your zip code and this will tell you what phones will work in your area:
http://www.net10.com/redirect_landing.jsp
Bally, I'm going to do exactly that. I burn minutes like gasoline through a Corvette, and most of it is on texts to other AAers. I need to switch. My wife can stay with Tracfone. She uses her phone to call, and maybe text back to me. She doesn't really want to learn how to text, and that really pisses me off at times.
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Bally, I'm going to do exactly that. I burn minutes like gasoline through a Corvette, and most of it is on texts to other AAers. I need to switch. My wife can stay with Tracfone. She uses her phone to call, and maybe text back to me. She doesn't really want to learn how to text, and that really pisses me off at times.
I was a little nervous switching because I was with Tracfone so long but Net10 has been awesome. My husband doesn't care about the cellphone, basically carries it around in case he has to make a call, although I did a slight upgrade for him because he did want a camera phone and for him with Tracfone he gets double minutes for the phone so Tracfone works for him. If I was a big cellphone user I wouldn't hesitate to do the $50 per month unlimited plan through Net10 though.
We were 1 of the earliest customers with Verizon in the 90's when cellphones took off, this was when the phones were like bricks and no way could you access the internet, but I got fed-up paying $89 a month for phones we hardly used, it's much nicer now just adding minutes when you need them and no monthly bills.
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SEA, I have no idea what an EBT card is, I wonder if I can get one?
Well Vesta, Well it is basically traditional food stamps(looked like monopoly money) in the form of a debit card.
If you financially qualify, you can.
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Well Vesta, Well it is basically traditional food stamps(looked like monopoly money) in the form of a debit card.
If you financially qualify, you can.
Interesting that so many military family's qualify and have qualified for many years. I would guess it is difficult for a a store worker or civilian to know who the person buying foods with these cards are, civilians or Military.
Many bases have closed down, no more big commissary's for dependents to shop at, or the retired that because of circumstances have to live on just the retirement pay. They are in some cases living in an area where taxes are high and do actually come in under the food stamp movement.
To lift an eyebrow at a stranger using food stamps is the same as looking weird at people using coupons. That fat lady with 3 kids may be waiting for hubby to come home from his 3rd. deployment to the Middle East as a ground ponder.
I know next to nothing about food stamps but that our service men and woman need them, such is the pay for serving and dieing for America. Hell, some service people that get out of the military have it better, get to stay home, family's are fed and they have no worries about being shot and killed every day they wake up.
Had a store up the street I went into once with a Ghetto about 3 blocks away. It was I found out 2 days before food stamps were issued for the month. Had to have been 6-8 people raising the prices on canned goods and toilet paper. I though this was just a small operation until I noticed the big chain markets doing the same.
The inner city folks that get the stamps really have no choice where to shop, I know of only one Supermarket in down town DC on Q street. The poor in other cities are SOOL , they have to shop for food within a few blocks and WOW do they get taken.
More to food stamps and what ever this new card is, not every poor person is on drugs, the majority are in a hole and every time they try to climb out, some crook comes along and shovels more dirt on them.
As Jesus told Mary Magdalene ----the poor will allways be amongst us-----This when she question Jesus on using expensive oil that could be given to the poor.
MRS.Smith help me out on this, was this in the Bible or a tall tale I heard years ago ???
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I am very bitter over the food stamp program. I never thought I would need something like it but before I got my job we were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I went behind my hubbies back and applied just for food stamps. 5 people and they told us we made $65 dollars too much. I asked the woman over the phone if I could "fudge" the number down and she told me that would be fraud. I mean Really?!!!! I can't get anything when we were in desperate need of food yet it so easy for others to get it? $65 bucks people and they denied me when I have paid into that shit since I was 16. So embarrassed I even told yall. Don't hold it against me :bawl:
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You should NOT be embarrassed Gina. At all.
My sister worked full time. Boyfriend laid off, his teenaged daughter living with them. She went and applied. Was turned down because she made $27 too much. She cried. She asked the lady if she were black would it have made a difference and the lady just looked down.
No one should ever be ashamed to ask for help. My sister, after trying different avenues finally got the nerve up to call me. I wished she had called me sooner but she wanted to do it on her own.
We all need help in this life.
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BTW, if I ever need some help, I will proudly walk in there and ask.
My husband supported this program all these years, I have no problem asking for some of it back.
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I am very bitter over the food stamp program. I never thought I would need something like it but before I got my job we were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I went behind my hubbies back and applied just for food stamps. 5 people and they told us we made $65 dollars too much. I asked the woman over the phone if I could "fudge" the number down and she told me that would be fraud. I mean Really?!!!! I can't get anything when we were in desperate need of food yet it so easy for others to get it? $65 bucks people and they denied me when I have paid into that shit since I was 16. So embarrassed I even told yall. Don't hold it against me :bawl:
Gina, you did what you felt that you had to do, at that time. Besides--this little line is key:
they denied me when I have paid into that shit since I was 16.
You should be able to use it if you've paid into it that long.
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Gina, you did what you felt that you had to do, at that time. Besides--this little line is key:
You should be able to use it if you've paid into it that long.
I think so too. It was an AA woman on the phone and it was like she took great joy in her voice to keep telling me that there was nothing she could do for me. I bet she wouldn't have said that to another AA.
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I am very bitter over the food stamp program. I never thought I would need something like it but before I got my job we were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I went behind my hubbies back and applied just for food stamps. 5 people and they told us we made $65 dollars too much. I asked the woman over the phone if I could "fudge" the number down and she told me that would be fraud. I mean Really?!!!! I can't get anything when we were in desperate need of food yet it so easy for others to get it? $65 bucks people and they denied me when I have paid into that shit since I was 16. So embarrassed I even told yall. Don't hold it against me :bawl:
I have had to use them 2 times in 15 years and I have worked ever single day of my life that I could. If it weren't for my little rug rates I wouldn't have even bothered. Thing is I was embarrassed as hell and I got off of them as fast as I could. I think the whole stigma of people being embarrassed to use welfare is gone.
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I have had to use them 2 times in 15 years and I have worked ever single day of my life that I could. If it weren't for my little rug rates I wouldn't have even bothered. Thing is I was embarrassed as hell and I got off of them as fast as I could. I think the whole stigma of people being embarrassed to use welfare is gone.
Oh I know. My face was blood red from embarrassment when I hit the submit button on my computer for them and when I talked to the woman over the phone. IT'S EMBARRASSING. I would not be on them long if I ever had to get on them. Apparently $65 bucks meant I was rich :yahoo:
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she took great joy in her voice to keep telling me that there was nothing she could do for me.
I've run into that shit before. Infuriating! All of us have had hard times, Gina, don't be embarrassed. Plus, you had kids to think about. I know you'd do anything for them.
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Oh I know. My face was blood red from embarrassment when I hit the submit button on my computer for them and when I talked to the woman over the phone. IT'S EMBARRASSING. I would not be on them long if I ever had to get on them. Apparently $65 bucks meant I was rich :yahoo:
I had to use the EBT card, and I would put it in my wallet upside down and cover it up when swiping... so embarrassing...
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I had to use the EBT card, and I would put it in my wallet upside down and cover it up when swiping... so embarrassing...
:cheersmate: it's okay you were poorer than me :nelson:
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Max and Gina, H5s for doing what you had to do.
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Gina and Max, Don't ever be ashamed to ask for a helping hand....Gina , as you said you have paid into this since you were 16 years old. We all have, I am sure. This is what I don't understand, what is the point of paying into medicaid / medicare/ ss/FICA, if we can't use them when we are in a temporary dire straights?
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As far as food stamps for folks who really need a temporary lift, I have no problem with that, that is what things like this should be there for. Now when people know how to fill out every form for every conceivable government program in their sleep, but couldn't fill out a job application, then I have a problem.
I also have a problem with democrats saying how wonderful it is that we have so many on food stamps, and how they create jobs. :banghead:
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I also have a problem with democrats saying how wonderful it is that we have so many on food stamps, and how they create jobs.
That makes my blood pressure shoot through the stratosphere. Pelosi loves saying that crap, so does Obama. When Obama said that 1 million more weeks of unemployment is better for our economy than the Keystone XL...I nearly ran off the road. WTF :argh: :mad:
Here are the jobs it saves, I suppose, doesn't really create: Some grocery store people, liquor store clerks, gas station clerks, landlords.
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That makes my blood pressure shoot through the stratosphere. Pelosi loves saying that crap, so does Obama. When Obama said that 1 million more weeks of unemployment is better for our economy than the Keystone XL...I nearly ran off the road. WTF :argh: :mad:
Here are the jobs it saves, I suppose, doesn't really create: Some grocery store people, liquor store clerks, gas station clerks, landlords.
Don't forget all the bureaucrats sucking the government teat to handle the welfare cases. Also they help to keep state lotteries running.
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Don't forget all the bureaucrats sucking the government teat to handle the welfare cases. Also they help to keep state lotteries running.
Back about 1962/3 I was in high school. I used to read magazines in the library, Life, Look, Saturday Evening Post. Well, one of them had an article and a cartoon on "The Welfare System". The cartoon was a full page drawing of a Rube Goldberg machine. You put a welfare dollar in at the top of the machine and 3 cent fell out the bottom for the poor to fight over. At that time it seems that 97% of the welfare dollars were eaten up by government workers.
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I was watching our local news this morning and found a gem.
It seems that my state is looking at the possibility of testing those on welfare for drugs. The first comment was a woman who argued that the state does not give her enough to feed her kids now.
Back in my misspent youth I was known to smoke a little pot. It was going for about $25-35 for a small bag. That was close to 20 years ago so I know inflation has taken it's toll as well and those numbers are higher.
Last I checked $35 would buy food for one child for several days.
Only someone that is bleeding the beast could come up with that kind of logic. :argh:
Comment at video:
http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/politics/tests-service-may-await-welfare-jobless-benefits
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At that time it seems that 97% of the welfare dollars were eaten up by government workers.
Uh huh, "overhead" and "administrative costs."
And in places run by corrupt Democrat machines, both include payoffs.
Political corruption costs money. A lot of money.
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Interesting that so many military family's qualify and have qualified for many years. I would guess it is difficult for a a store worker or civilian to know who the person buying foods with these cards are, civilians or Military.
Many bases have closed down, no more big commissary's for dependents to shop at, or the retired that because of circumstances have to live on just the retirement pay. They are in some cases living in an area where taxes are high and do actually come in under the food stamp movement.
To lift an eyebrow at a stranger using food stamps is the same as looking weird at people using coupons. That fat lady with 3 kids may be waiting for hubby to come home from his 3rd. deployment to the Middle East as a ground ponder.
I know next to nothing about food stamps but that our service men and woman need them, such is the pay for serving and dieing for America. Hell, some service people that get out of the military have it better, get to stay home, family's are fed and they have no worries about being shot and killed every day they wake up.
Had a store up the street I went into once with a Ghetto about 3 blocks away. It was I found out 2 days before food stamps were issued for the month. Had to have been 6-8 people raising the prices on canned goods and toilet paper. I though this was just a small operation until I noticed the big chain markets doing the same.
The inner city folks that get the stamps really have no choice where to shop, I know of only one Supermarket in down town DC on Q street. The poor in other cities are SOOL , they have to shop for food within a few blocks and WOW do they get taken.
More to food stamps and what ever this new card is, not every poor person is on drugs, the majority are in a hole and every time they try to climb out, some crook comes along and shovels more dirt on them.
As Jesus told Mary Magdalene ----the poor will allways be amongst us-----This when she question Jesus on using expensive oil that could be given to the poor.
MRS.Smith help me out on this, was this in the Bible or a tall tale I heard years ago ???
It is presumed that Mary Magdalene was the one that annointed Christ with the expensive oil, and wiped his feet with her hair. Someone else questioned the use of the oil when it could have been sold and the money used for the poor...I think that may have been Judas because he kept the money for the whole group.
When my first husband was in the Air Force, we found out we could get food stamps. We applied and got them for a couple months, then just dropped out of the program. We didn't feel we really needed it and figured they could use the money for those that really did.
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I am very bitter over the food stamp program. I never thought I would need something like it but before I got my job we were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I went behind my hubbies back and applied just for food stamps. 5 people and they told us we made $65 dollars too much. I asked the woman over the phone if I could "fudge" the number down and she told me that would be fraud. I mean Really?!!!! I can't get anything when we were in desperate need of food yet it so easy for others to get it? $65 bucks people and they denied me when I have paid into that shit since I was 16. So embarrassed I even told yall. Don't hold it against me :bawl:
When I went back to college with 3 kids, we had $650 a month to live on. $133 went to the car payment, $125 to lot rent, (Thank God I owned the 10x50 trailer!!), then utilities, the cheapest possible phone, gasoline, clothing, food, medical expenses. When I applied for help, I was told I didn't even qualify for heating assistance because 2 of my kids had an inheritance...(that was all locked up by the court, and couldn't be touched until they were 19.) Our judge told me the state couldn't consider the children's inheritance, but they did, and we never got anything. I went to college with a woman who was on welfare, her kids had 10x what mine had.
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I am very bitter over the food stamp program. I never thought I would need something like it but before I got my job we were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I went behind my hubbies back and applied just for food stamps. 5 people and they told us we made $65 dollars too much. I asked the woman over the phone if I could "fudge" the number down and she told me that would be fraud. I mean Really?!!!! I can't get anything when we were in desperate need of food yet it so easy for others to get it? $65 bucks people and they denied me when I have paid into that shit since I was 16. So embarrassed I even told yall. Don't hold it against me :bawl:
Never be embarrassed. That's what it's there for. It's the people that make it a lifestyle that are the problem. My nana doesn't qualify either and she lives on widow's benefits from my grandfather's social security.
Cindie
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All DUmmies should be killed and ate first, then we will talk food stamps!
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The food stamp program is another example (hope our new pet socialist reads this) where a grand theory of benevolence is splattered against the rock cliff of human nature.
No one honestly begrudges anyone eating or needing a helping hand.
What happens though once installed is the program becomes a bureaucracy that exists to grow itself with no regards to consequences or outcomes.
It may seem cruel and heartless but I do want there to be a stigma attached to using them,not to belittle a person but so that person doesn`t belittle themselves to the point of not wanting better in life.
The truth of the matter is the left never wants a person to better themselves because then government and the power wielded by it isn`t needed.
Well- said.
There is also the problem of people abusing food stamps, such as:
1) Using them, while simultaneously having new- model cars, plasma TVs, state- of- the- art smart phones, etc..
2) Some people use food stamps to buy luxury foods (i.e. steaks, lobsters), which they then illegally sell or trade to others on the side.
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Well- said.
There is also the problem of people abusing food stamps, such as:
1) Using them, while simultaneously having new- model cars, plasma TVs, state- of- the- art smart phones, etc..
2) Some people use food stamps to buy luxury foods (i.e. steaks, lobsters), which they then illegally sell or trade to others on the side.
Warning blood boiling article below.
https://bangordailynews.com/2011/08/19/news/state/food-stamp-%E2%80%98water-dumping%E2%80%99-scam-continues/
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Warning blood boiling article below.
https://bangordailynews.com/2011/08/19/news/state/food-stamp-%E2%80%98water-dumping%E2%80%99-scam-continues/
:wtf3:
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Warning blood boiling article below.
https://bangordailynews.com/2011/08/19/news/state/food-stamp-%E2%80%98water-dumping%E2%80%99-scam-continues/
No big surprise there. The Boston Herald had another story about a woman in MA doing the same thing.
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Comment from the Bangor article:
I got SNAP and sometimes buy several cases of water to dump and get money from deposats. Why do u care? I need gas for my car so I can get my methadone tretmants and use this funds for gas. Not every body is frauding, some of us r honest peaple.
Mole? Or considering it's Maine, legit?
A more representative comment:
This mindset of abuse is the foundation of the general welfare recipient, not the guy that just lost his job and needs a little help for his family, but the second and third generation no education high school drop outs that does not want to help themselves nor teach their children responsible actions. Instead we get “this is how you make some money for cigs and beer, sonâ€. For me, I feel disgust….
I am a bleeding heart liberal who truly understands the need for welfare, but PLEASE! I work in a large grocery store and just cringe when I see a customer with a Blackberry in one hand while pulling a Food Stamp card from a Coach purse with the other hand. We need to continue to help the truly needy, but anyone who can afford a monthly phone plan on a Blackberry needs to be reevaluated.
The first step is admitting you’re a Liberal, the next step is realizing your tax dollars and votes are supporting stories like this?………..Come join us it’s not so bad.
Then there's somebody over there who is just mind-numbingly stupid. Her name is Christina Berg:
•Christina Berg
Soda has nutritional value and is healthier than many fruit juices and milkshakes. Besides is your problem with the fact that soda has sugar or that it tastes good due to carbonation, it seems the latter, many food stamp recipients work , and what if a courier wants calories.
She keeps saying that sugar is a staple, therefore a human right. :mental:
She makes many posts. Then we have the geniuses who say, "well, was the water spoiled?" :lmao: :mental:
Maine.
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I got SNAP and sometimes buy several cases of water to dump and get money from deposats. Why do u care? I need gas for my car so I can get my methadone tretmants and use this funds for gas. Not every body is frauding, some of us r honest peaple.
Bottled water is sillier than the organic vegetable scam.
I'd rather see them getting beer with food stamps. At least then there's a chance they'll drink themselves to death.
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This doesn't have anything to do with food stamps but I wanted the DUmmies to read this response from a doctor on a message board I was reading today. The thread was about a product for dry eyes called Lacrisert and is very expensive. This person posted how this prescription medicine has saved her sight and she is desperate because Medicare will no longer be coving it. This was the doctor's response:
Dr. Ari Weitzner on December 6th, 2010 3:46 pm
i suppose the easiest thing is to go online and find a canada pharmacy that will ship to you. also, call the lacrisert company- im sure they can help.
obamacare took a very big chunk-about $500MM from an already strapped medicare, so im not surprised medicare is cutting back not only on doctors’ fees, but also on what it will cover. i think this will only get worse in the future. no surprise that about 55% of americans are against obamacare in every poll i have read. let’s see if the next congress in 2012 can adjust obamacare and make it better.
People for Obamacare are SCUM.
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This doesn't have anything to do with food stamps but I wanted the DUmmies to read this response from a doctor on a message board I was reading today. The thread was about a product for dry eyes called Lacrisert and is very expensive. This person posted how this prescription medicine has saved her sight and she is desperate because Medicare will no longer be coving it. This was the doctor's response:
People for Obamacare are SCUM.
People for Obamacare have no clue what damage it's already done, and the huge damage it will continue to do. All they care about is "MY bills will get paid," but even that won't be true. Once insurance companies are destroyed, there will be no money to treat people. With only government income, most healthcare facilities will go bankrupt. The ones that survive will do so by taking in private patients that pay massive bills for extraordinary care, and by cutting services for everyone else to the very bare minimum. After all, once Uncle Sam runs it all, who are you going to sue when someone dies?
Many of those same people have no clue that government regulations are causing a huge part of the increase in medical costs. If Uncle Sam's minions weren't protecting their jobs by writing needless and wasteful regulations, we'd save a ton of money on both health care costs AND the federal government.
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Bottled water is sillier than the organic vegetable scam.
I'd rather see them getting beer with food stamps. At least then there's a chance they'll drink themselves to death.
I would prefer they not be allowed to buy alcohol as the more likely scenario is that they will kill an actual productive member of society while driving drunk on their way to pick up weed.
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I would say that anyone who knows what their Civic Duties are as a Citizen and are NOT upset about food stamps is scum.
The source of most of our problems in these united States today, is that most people have no clue as to what their Rights are, and what it means for the Government to ACTUALLY Protect those Rights. the Economy has crashed because of Socialism, of which EVERY Government Handout Program is. Socialism includes using the Taxpayers future labor as collateral for Government Guaranteed Housing Loans via Fanny and Freddy. Socialism includes bailouts. Anytime the Government acts as though the Fruit of your Labor is the Government's to dispose of as the Government sees fit, rather than Taxing only for the limited role of Protecting the Individual's Rights, then the Government is acting in a Socialist manner.
The Government is NOT ALLOWED to have Handout Programs which Taxpayers have no choice of opting out of. Each person can decide for themselves if they are willing to fund such a Program, but NO HUMAN, Government, or Majority Vote has the Right to sell my Liberty down the river for me. It is MY Right to Liberty, to dispose of as I see fit. The Majority has NO AUTHORITY to Vote as to whether I must surrender my RIGHT to Liberty, just like the Majority has NO AUTHORITY to vote as to whether or not I must waive MY Right to Remain Silent, and it is Government's DUTY to make sure that this is the way things go.
Government's job it protect the Individual's Rights form being violated by somebody else, NOT provide for people. If I blow it while engaging in my Right to Pursue Happiness and end up starving in the street, nobody's Rights have been violated. But if somebody is FORCED to Help/Serve me, then their unalienable Right to Liberty HAS been violated. Since it is the Government's job to Protect Rights, the Government has NO AUTHORITY to violate Rights. All help for people in need MUST be done VOLUNTARILY, or else the Government is FAILING to do its job.
The 13th Amendment makes ALL Government Handout Programs unconstitutional, by prohibiting Involuntary Servitude. We need to stop playing footsie with the Socialists by accepting their FALSE premise that the Government is allowed to Provide for people, and unite around the fact that this is unconstitutional, and a VIOLATION of the Natural Law that the country is founded on. Then we can take down the Socialists entire Economy Wrecking house of cards in on fell swoop. Once the Government stops committing the crime of Socialism upon its Citizens, the Government Handout Program fraud problems will automatically evaporate.
It is our job to make sure the Government is doing its job, which means it is our job to MAKE SURE we know what the Government's job is.
If you think I am incorrect about this, please tell my why. If you need clarification as to what your Rights are and why, let me know.
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I love your passion! If it wasnt for your screen name I might ask for a date :tongue:
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Ronbot.
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Max and Gina, H5s for doing what you had to do.
You know, I have to say, I am a little confused. I was asked once when saying something about assistance for children with disabilities that I should have somehow planned better for something liek that I had no idea could be coming, yet assistance is ok in this case? Let me clarify too, I'm not inconsistent on this. I see nothing wrong with asking for a helping hand, but why the hypocrisy? Why do our ideals seem to change if it's someone we like we are dealing with or if we are dealing with our own family. I'm sorry, just seeing this really bothered me and I'm sure I'll get piled on for even bringing it up, but pardon me for being a bit butthurt by the inconsistent treatment about assistance. :???: :(
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You know, I have to say, I am a little confused. I was asked once when saying something about assistance for children with disabilities that I should have somehow planned better for something liek that I had no idea could be coming, yet assistance is ok in this case? Let me clarify too, I'm not inconsistent on this. I see nothing wrong with asking for a helping hand, but why the hypocrisy? Why do our ideals seem to change if it's someone we like we are dealing with or if we are dealing with our own family. I'm sorry, just seeing this really bothered me and I'm sure I'll get piled on for even bringing it up, but pardon me for being a bit butthurt by the inconsistent treatment about assistance. :???: :(
Can you link to the thread you're talking about? I haven't seen that thread.
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Yeah, I was always under the impression that when you decide to have kids that becomes your responsibility not everyone else's. You aren't guaranteed a perfect child in life so you have to roll with the punches and make sure you have your bases covered with a good job and insurance. I thought everyone knew this.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,59132.msg685311.html#msg685311
It was a discussion on education of disabled individuals where there were behavior problems. There was a discussion of assistance and while this was not linked directly to my words, I think that pretty much summed up the idea of just pull up your boots, bend over, and take what you've been given without inconveniencing me. Quite frankly I see that inconsistency quite a bit on here and I know why it happens; human nature being what it is, but there is something to be said for thinking of our own troubles and having some consideration for someone who might be carrying a heavier burden then we are. This is why I'm probably not as stringent as others here on assistance in general. The only thing that chaps my hide about it is that it is being abused by so many people(and I don't mean the folks here who have applied for it for a need). TRUE NEED is what should dictate any manner of assistance whether it be special education, food stamps, etc. Conservatives should be more rational and that means applying a consistent view on broader issues. That's all. Like I said, I don't want to start a bruhaha, but it just stood out in my mind and it's not the only thread where I've seen a 'throw the disabled person to the lions' kind of attitude yet we give deference to someone we know when they need very basic assistance. Like I said, I just wish we were more consistent and keep in mind every fraud on DU should not justify our judgment of folks with legitmate need. As conservatives, we have to be mindful that we aren't being heavy-handed to our 'brothers' because we want to win an argument to. I don't mean this to indict but to challenge the great conservative minds here to really look inward. This is a big year and we live and die by what we say. Make sure what we say is what we really mean and that we live up to the ideal we might be putting on others just because we are heated at the time. Really all there is to it. Bit of a digression, but it sparks thoughts to the broader application for me. AS someone who has struggled through a divorce and is now starting to come through it with children doing very well, a wonderful boyfriend, and a solid job, I wish those well trying to move forward to get over the hump of life. BTDT, don't judge. :cheersmate:
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Jty, I went through that thread. What I saw was a lot of people agreeing that a problem child should not be allowed to disrupt an entire class, especially with behavior as inappropriate as described, and a basic agreement that the parents are primarily responsible for the child, but that the school has to do whatever it can to deal fairly with all the kids. I don't really understand how this relates to a thread in which we discuss the fact that some people really desperately need help for a short time, until they can get on their feet, and that we all agree that such help should be available. :???:
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Jty, I went through that thread. What I saw was a lot of people agreeing that a problem child should not be allowed to disrupt an entire class, especially with behavior as inappropriate as described, and a basic agreement that the parents are primarily responsible for the child, but that the school has to do whatever it can to deal fairly with all the kids. I don't really understand how this relates to a thread in which we discuss the fact that some people really desperately need help for a short time, until they can get on their feet, and that we all agree that such help should be available. :???:
I think she was trying to politely point out the hypocrisy of what Gina said back then and what she said in this thread. If Jty and her ex have to be solely responsible and have foresight for what kind of child they have then the same should apply to Gina and her brood when it comes to seeking/applying for food assistance. If you're going to claim purity in the independence dept. you really should practice it in real life. I myself have never applied for or gotten help from any government agency whatsoever{i've always went out and gotten a second job when things got tough} but i don't impune folks who do need it on one occasion or another as long as it's not abused. I think what is more disturbing in that thread is how some folks think Special Ed kids should be treated.
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OK, I see what you're saying now as far as your argument about hypocrisy.
On certain issues I tend not to go to the extreme, I always think "There but for the Grace of God go I".
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No one has a problem helping people who TRULY need help. As Bally so eloquently opined here:
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,69063.msg804346.html#msg804346
realize there comes a time when welfare goes from a temporary solution to 5 generations of dependency and they need to stop enabling that dependency
However, it should be a bottom up process, NOT a top down process. In other words, help should be as local as possible.
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OK, I see what you're saying now as far as your argument about hypocrisy.
On certain issues I tend not to go to the extreme, I always think "There but for the Grace of God go I".
Yes. I do as well.
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Just from my personal online experience and real life encounters with people from various political stripes, conservatives in general have no problem at all with people who are having a hard time and need some assistance, and we tend to donate to Churches to help such people also and food banks, the problem is when generation after generation it turns into an entitlement.
As far as kids who have a disability? again, no problem with the Government or State helping those kids, but at what point does 1 kids rights infringe upon the rights of an entire classroom? Isn't it possible that there are a few kids who through no fault of their own have such excessive behavior that it disrupts everyone else? not saying to just throw that kid away, but maybe some private school time at home would be helpful until something else is figured out?
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Just from my personal online experience and real life encounters with people from various political stripes, conservatives in general have no problem at all with people who are having a hard time and need some assistance, and we tend to donate to Churches to help such people also and food banks, the problem is when generation after generation it turns into an entitlement.
As far as kids who have a disability? again, no problem with the Government or State helping those kids, but at what point does 1 kids rights infringe upon the rights of an entire classroom? Isn't it possible that there are a few kids who through no fault of their own have such excessive behavior that it disrupts everyone else? not saying to just throw that kid away, but maybe some private school time at home would be helpful until something else is figured out?
And that's fine if you want to do it that way...Just as long as the parents with the Special Needs child are given their per pupil tax dollars back that they pay into the school district to educate that child. School districts will fight you tooth and nail to keep those dollars however. There are usually seperate classrooms set up for ASD/PDD kids when they can't be mainstreamed in most school districts. The problem is you don't know if a given child can be mainstreamed until you try it. When they can't be they are sent to a school in the district that is equipped to handle their disability.
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And that's fine if you want to do it that way...Just as long as the parents with the Special Needs child are given their per pupil tax dollars back that they pay into the school district to educate that child. School districts will fight you tooth and nail to keep those dollars however. There are usually seperate classrooms set up for ASD/PDD kids when they can't be mainstreamed in most school districts. The problem is you don't know if a given child can be mainstreamed until you try it. When they can't be they are sent to a school in the district that is equipped to handle their disability.
That's a slippery slope argument though. I pay a lot in property taxes, I don't have any kids, and if I had kids they'd be in Catholic School, where's my rebate?
ETA: Of course you need to try a kid in school to see how they handle it, my comment was in reference to the case cited, at what point is that child a distraction to everyone else?
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That's a slippery slope argument though. I pay a lot in property taxes, I don't have any kids, and if I had kids they'd be in Catholic School, where's my rebate?
ETA: Of course you need to try a kid in school to see how they handle it, my comment was in reference to the case cited, at what point is that child a distraction to everyone else?
Oh don't get me wrong...If you want to send your kids to parochial school i'm all for you being able to do that and getting your per pupil allowance to do it! The child is a distraction when he or she cannot be mainstreamed. Also. Do you honestly think that "everyone else" should never have to deal with distraction in school? I got news for ya Bally..Some of the "normal" kids most times cause more distraction than the Special Ed kids do and those "normal" kids have no excuse. I've worked in a school district for about 15 years and have 3 boys aged 12-18.It doesn't take much to distract any of them :lmao:
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DUmmies continue to bicker over foodstamps, or something. :popcorn:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002241392
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RockaFowler
2. Republicans are confusing
Why is it BAD when Michelle Obama talks about nutrition, but good when these guys force people to eat what they want them to eat?? Yes there are bad food choices made out there by SOME people, not all. We need more Jamie Olivers out there to teach people to cook nutritious food at reasonable prices.
It was Jamie Oliver's idea to do this:
Kids Reject L.A.’s New Healthy School Lunches, Compare Them To Dog Food
http://jezebel.com/5869211/kids-reject-las-new-healthy-school-lunches-compare-them-to-dog-food
Principals report massive waste, with unopened milk cartons and uneaten entrees being thrown away. Students are ditching lunch, and some say they're suffering from headaches, stomach pains and even anemia. At many campuses, an underground market for chips, candy, fast-food burgers and other taboo fare is thriving.
<snipped>
Andre Jahchan, a 16-year-old sophomore at Esteban Torres High School, said the food was "super good" at the summer tasting at L.A. Unified's central kitchen. But on campus, he said, the chicken pozole was watery, the vegetable tamale was burned and hard, and noodles were soggy.
<snipped>
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It was Jamie Oliver's idea to do this:
Kids Reject L.A.’s New Healthy School Lunches, Compare Them To Dog Food
http://jezebel.com/5869211/kids-reject-las-new-healthy-school-lunches-compare-them-to-dog-food
It takes a liberal to believe that it is better for the kids to throw away their "healthy" meals uneaten than to eat the meals that are less nutritious.
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Oh don't get me wrong...If you want to send your kids to parochial school i'm all for you being able to do that and getting your per pupil allowance to do it! The child is a distraction when he or she cannot be mainstreamed. Also. Do you honestly think that "everyone else" should never have to deal with distraction in school? I got news for ya Bally..Some of the "normal" kids most times cause more distraction than the Special Ed kids do and those "normal" kids have no excuse. I've worked in a school district for about 15 years and have 3 boys aged 12-18.It doesn't take much to distract any of them :lmao:
I've never seen a special needs child that was mainstreamed be a problem and I think it's one of the healthier things about public school when it comes to socialization...and not just for the SE kid. Public school separates students into little groups of "same". Real life finds people mixing with people of different ages, talents, interests, etc. One of the most rewarding experiences we had when we were homeschooling was a Latin class we started. Ages 8 to adult. There were about 20 of us.
Cindie
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At many campuses, an underground market for chips, candy, fast-food burgers and other taboo fare is thriving.
Stop the tape. STOP THE TAPE!
We're told we have to fund school lunches because the parents can't afford it.
Apparently the little bastards can afford to feed themselves for cost plus black market mark-up.
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I've never seen a special needs child that was mainstreamed be a problem and I think it's one of the healthier things about public school when it comes to socialization...and not just for the SE kid. Public school separates students into little groups of "same". Real life finds people mixing with people of different ages, talents, interests, etc. One of the most rewarding experiences we had when we were homeschooling was a Latin class we started. Ages 8 to adult. There were about 20 of us.
Cindie
They usually aren't. The kids i really feel for are the classically autistic kids. They don't really do well in most cases in a normal classroom setting since their ability to communicate is very limited along with their limited ability to socially interact with others. They usually spend parts of their school day in and out of the classroom depending on behaviour and which subject they struggle with the most as they get special instruction(IEP) for said subject/subjects. Most also need to wear sound muffling headphones as well for certain activities that are particulary noisey(Autsies absolutely freak from loud noise) I always feel for these kids especially since they seem to lead a very lonely existance.It's really heartbreaking. :(
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That's a slippery slope argument though. I pay a lot in property taxes, I don't have any kids, and if I had kids they'd be in Catholic School, where's my rebate?
ETA: Of course you need to try a kid in school to see how they handle it, my comment was in reference to the case cited, at what point is that child a distraction to everyone else?
It'd be fairly simple to address that, by allowing a rebate of school taxes paid only for those with kids in school to be educated and using the whole rebated amount for that purpose (Property taxes do pay for more than just schools, like police, fire, and city/county government functions). Vouchers are another option, somewhat more of a still-taking-from-somebody-to-give-to-somebody-else approach though, since only a tiny number of parents would be paying school taxes that came within a dollar of whatever the voucher amount was.
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I think she was trying to politely point out the hypocrisy of what Gina said back then and what she said in this thread. If Jty and her ex have to be solely responsible and have foresight for what kind of child they have then the same should apply to Gina and her brood when it comes to seeking/applying for food assistance. If you're going to claim purity in the independence dept. you really should practice it in real life. I myself have never applied for or gotten help from any government agency whatsoever{i've always went out and gotten a second job when things got tough} but i don't impune folks who do need it on one occasion or another as long as it's not abused. I think what is more disturbing in that thread is how some folks think Special Ed kids should be treated.
I didn't want to get on a special eds kick because I knew it would be an easy distraction, but Toasted is right, if we can't claim independent purity on lesser things like putting food on the table then we probably shouldn't speak to those in extraordinary circumstances who seek and need help whether it's via food stamps, public schools, etc. I can well prepare for knowing I'll need to feed a mouth I bore(although sometimes things do happen that make it difficult as I said before I don't begrudge seeking help), I can not well prepare for the fact that I will have a child with a serious disability. To suggest such when you need to seek help for providing basic needs for NORMAL children is not really an admirable position. It just isn't. And I hated to bring this up, but the double speak and double standard does get tiresome. And we as conservatives should ahve some little voice in us that makes us better at detecting our own deficiencies in these things. I guess I expect more from 'our side'.
As for the special needs issue, perhaps the problem here is some of you have never been around a REAL autistic person. My son qualifies as what one would think of as classically autistic ie very little except rote communication, difficultly carrying out daily tasks because his brain does not know how to apply something he's learned in a different circumstance, etc. He cannot do the things you or I would expect of a normal 11 year old boy and his 7 year old brother is quickly surpassing him on many things because of his deficiencies. I toyed with putting up some ipod videos I took of one of his fits not long ago, but in the interest of his privacy and my family's, I'm not going to do it here. If you are interested in learning more, others here have me on facebook and I'll put the videos up when I can get them moved from the ipod to the computer. I'll be happy to take more video in the interest of showing you his traits and behaviors. I'm all about educating really so if there is genuine interest in learning and growing, feel free to pm me.
I know that Toast as someone who works around these children AND who knows my son personally has tried to appeal to some here about how special needs kids are. I know he's probably made little progress. It's ok, I didn't understand these things before God blessed me with a child like this either, nor did I care too. Pardon my absence, real life and in the office quite a bit lately with retirements. I don't have time now to read further, but wanted to clarify quickly on a couple that I did.
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OK, I see what you're saying now as far as your argument about hypocrisy.
On certain issues I tend not to go to the extreme, I always think "There but for the Grace of God go I".
Yes, what many here don't seem to get is I've had the rough hand of life slap the righteous political purity out of me. I know all to well I don't know all there is to know and can't understand all there is to understand. The problem with assistance as I see it is that liberals tend to think everyone deserves and is entitled to it no matter what their efforts are to make things right. The problem on our side is we fail to see that there are people who genuinely need help and who are good stewards with what they are given. Both sides operate on false premises of extremes. There are abusers, particularly generational abusers of the system and there are also people who desperately need help. The little help we give(say with special needs) allows them to keep disabled adults home and from overburdening the system more by being 'placed' with someone who might be milking the system(as an example)or in expensive 'homes' funded by the state $. Or the help gets someone over a short term hump so they can more quickly recover to the point of being more self-sufficient. Maybe if the gov took pursuing fraud and placing certain restrictions on access more seriously, we could find a good meeting point for this stuff. I know it's probably got a lot of haunches up, but I think it's a good springboard for us to discuss issues like this and it's a good moment to self-reflect on our own biases and conflicting sentiments. Believe me, I don't ask anyone to consider what I don't myself and my tempering of experience has come hard learned.
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I didn't want to get on a special eds kick because I knew it would be an easy distraction, but Toasted is right, if we can't claim independent purity on lesser things like putting food on the table then we probably shouldn't speak to those in extraordinary circumstances who seek and need help whether it's via food stamps, public schools, etc. I can well prepare for knowing I'll need to feed a mouth I bore(although sometimes things do happen that make it difficult as I said before I don't begrudge seeking help), I can not well prepare for the fact that I will have a child with a serious disability. To suggest such when you need to seek help for providing basic needs for NORMAL children is not really an admirable position. It just isn't. And I hated to bring this up, but the double speak and double standard does get tiresome. And we as conservatives should ahve some little voice in us that makes us better at detecting our own deficiencies in these things. I guess I expect more from 'our side'.
As for the special needs issue, perhaps the problem here is some of you have never been around a REAL autistic person. My son qualifies as what one would think of as classically autistic ie very little except rote communication, difficultly carrying out daily tasks because his brain does not know how to apply something he's learned in a different circumstance, etc. He cannot do the things you or I would expect of a normal 11 year old boy and his 7 year old brother is quickly surpassing him on many things because of his deficiencies. I toyed with putting up some ipod videos I took of one of his fits not long ago, but in the interest of his privacy and my family's, I'm not going to do it here. If you are interested in learning more, others here have me on facebook and I'll put the videos up when I can get them moved from the ipod to the computer. I'll be happy to take more video in the interest of showing you his traits and behaviors. I'm all about educating really so if there is genuine interest in learning and growing, feel free to pm me.
I know that Toast as someone who works around these children AND who knows my son personally has tried to appeal to some here about how special needs kids are. I know he's probably made little progress. It's ok, I didn't understand these things before God blessed me with a child like this either, nor did I care too. Pardon my absence, real life and in the office quite a bit lately with retirements. I don't have time now to read further, but wanted to clarify quickly on a couple that I did.
A good friend has an autistic 8 year old and raves about Temple Grandin. Have you had a chance to check out any of her books? My son also falls under the spectrum and she is one of his heroes now.
She also sent him a nice handwritten note to congratulate him for earning his Eagle Scout.
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No one has a problem helping people who TRULY need help. As Bally so eloquently opined here:
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,69063.msg804346.html#msg804346
However, it should be a bottom up process, NOT a top down process. In other words, help should be as local as possible.
I'm not debating the hows. :wink:
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Just from my personal online experience and real life encounters with people from various political stripes, conservatives in general have no problem at all with people who are having a hard time and need some assistance, and we tend to donate to Churches to help such people also and food banks, the problem is when generation after generation it turns into an entitlement.
As far as kids who have a disability? again, no problem with the Government or State helping those kids, but at what point does 1 kids rights infringe upon the rights of an entire classroom? Isn't it possible that there are a few kids who through no fault of their own have such excessive behavior that it disrupts everyone else? not saying to just throw that kid away, but maybe some private school time at home would be helpful until something else is figured out?
And what of someone in my situation--divorced. If I don't work, your level of assistance so I can support my family would HAVE to go up. Not to mention, as an elderly woman at some point you will be taking care of both me and my son since I would not have been able to accumulate anything to take care of myself in my old age. You see how difficult this gets. We then are left with choosing an imperfect option that is as best for everyone as can be including the taxpayer. Believe me, special needs kids don't get everything they need either. Financially, that is just not possible from my standpoint and from the public's--you do the best you can with what you have.
And normal children are disruptive. My youngest child has dealt with some very nasty 2nd graders this year. In fact teachers seem to have less ability to intercede with normal children then they do with special needs.
I stated where I think the disconnect is. Generally speaking, many conservatives think EVERY case of assistance is generational or the person sells their foodstamps for beer and cigs. And every liberal thinks every charity case is noble. Our misconceptions in general are where the disconnect is. I think you are singing to the choir here, Bally. I never said there weren't abuses, I was only speaking to our double speak. We can't judge a person's ability to prepare when we ourselves find we aren't fully prepared. That's the ONLY thing I was really addressing. I wanted to bite my tongue, but it was bleeding over this one. Sorry.
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And what of someone in my situation--divorced. If I don't work, your level of assistance so I can support my family would HAVE to go up. Not to mention, as an elderly woman at some point you will be taking care of both me and my son since I would not have been able to accumulate anything to take care of myself in my old age. You see how difficult this gets. We then are left with choosing an imperfect option that is as best for everyone as can be including the taxpayer. Believe me, special needs kids don't get everything they need either. Financially, that is just not possible from my standpoint and from the public's--you do the best you can with what you have.
And normal children are disruptive. My youngest child has dealt with some very nasty 2nd graders this year. In fact teachers seem to have less ability to intercede with normal children then they do with special needs.
I stated where I think the disconnect is. Generally speaking, many conservatives think EVERY case of assistance is generational or the person sells their foodstamps for beer and cigs. And every liberal thinks every charity case is noble. Our misconceptions in general are where the disconnect is. I think you are singing to the choir here, Bally. I never said there weren't abuses, I was only speaking to our double speak. We can't judge a person's ability to prepare when we ourselves find we aren't fully prepared. That's the ONLY thing I was really addressing. I wanted to bite my tongue, but it was bleeding over this one. Sorry.
I understand how you feel, honestly, but DU threads and the criticisms are directed AT them because they WANT everyone to be able to have whatever they want. They whine about it, pretend like they piously care about the poor, make up stories about hardships, make copious lists about what the government should give them, what everyone (mostly them) should have, make excuses for people who do abuse the system, want no accountability, etc., etc. You're going to find harsher criticism here because of the DUmmies general life philosophy of dependence and government nanny-ism rather than being aimed at those who really need help. But if we as a nation were more discretionary about where those dollars went, how & what they're distributed for, conditions, etc. there would be a lot more quality help for a child like yours. And you're working to make things as good as you can for your family. Not so for many people receiving assistance, especially those for whom it's become a generational lifestyle. It's simply expected with no responsibility for taking from the other citizens of this country.
And I get how sometimes it can seem personal. Being bipolar and basically able to rival DUmmies in the chemical cocktail department there have been times when it's been difficult to keep my perspective when the discussion centers around some of the mental health threads. But really, it's not necessarily the fact that they have a mental illness (though in some cases I do think some of them are faking it) it's that the revel in it. It's the pride they take in having something wrong and the "my drugs are more than your drugs", "my sickness is worse than your sickness" that's the reason for the criticism. If you look at it from the point of view that it's not that you have challenges (and may need assistance others here don't), it's how you handle those challenges. DUmmies simply don't try to rise above them. On purpose. Misery & being pathetic is a lifestyle.
Cindie
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I understand how you feel, honestly, but DU threads and the criticisms are directed AT them because they WANT everyone to be able to have whatever they want. They whine about it, pretend like they piously care about the poor, make up stories about hardships, make copious lists about what the government should give them, what everyone (mostly them) should have, make excuses for people who do abuse the system, want no accountability, etc., etc. You're going to find harsher criticism here because of the DUmmies general life philosophy of dependence and government nanny-ism rather than being aimed at those who really need help. But if we as a nation were more discretionary about where those dollars went, how & what they're distributed for, conditions, etc. there would be a lot more quality help for a child like yours. And you're working to make things as good as you can for your family. Not so for many people receiving assistance, especially those for whom it's become a generational lifestyle. It's simply expected with no responsibility for taking from the other citizens of this country.
And I get how sometimes it can seem personal. Being bipolar and basically able to rival DUmmies in the chemical cocktail department there have been times when it's been difficult to keep my perspective when the discussion centers around some of the mental health threads. But really, it's not necessarily the fact that they have a mental illness (though in some cases I do think some of them are faking it) it's that the revel in it. It's the pride they take in having something wrong and the "my drugs are more than your drugs", "my sickness is worse than your sickness" that's the reason for the criticism. If you look at it from the point of view that it's not that you have challenges (and may need assistance others here don't), it's how you handle those challenges. DUmmies simply don't try to rise above them. On purpose. Misery & being pathetic is a lifestyle.
Cindie
H5
Jty, what I have seen you and Schade go through for your sons is truly amazing. You both walk through broken glass for your kids to make sure they get the care they deserve.
Gina has worked her ass off for her family too, admitting that she needed help from the government for a short amount of time is nothing to be ashamed of. Situations like hers and yours are what government assistance should be for. Not living off it for years and years (obviously im not speaking of truly disabled people) and certainly not generation after generation.
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Conservatives generally believe that those who can, should. Those who need help should get help. Someone who has an autistic child either has a full-time job caring for that child, or needs the funds to be able to hire good help.
Any of us that are anti-abortion must be willing to help out in cases of accidental pregnancies, but that does not give the parents the right to expect us to support their children forever, unless there is good reason why the parent(s) can't support the children. It's better that we support them than that they are murdered.
However, it would be far more efficient to do those things correctly, through charities and churches instead of through the God-forsaken expensive government agencies.
As someone with very slight experience with an autistic child, I totally agree that the parents who raise these children deserve our help...far, far more than some of the people I know who are supported by taxpayers because they have chosen to eat themselves into morbid obesity.
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Conservatives generally believe that those who can, should. Those who need help should get help. Someone who has an autistic child either has a full-time job caring for that child, or needs the funds to be able to hire good help.
Any of us that are anti-abortion must be willing to help out in cases of accidental pregnancies, but that does not give the parents the right to expect us to support their children forever, unless there is good reason why the parent(s) can't support the children. It's better that we support them than that they are murdered.
However, it would be far more efficient to do those things correctly, through charities and churches instead of through the God-forsaken expensive government agencies.
As someone with very slight experience with an autistic child, I totally agree that the parents who raise these children deserve our help...far, far more than some of the people I know who are supported by taxpayers because they have chosen to eat themselves into morbid obesity.
Yes and then when they keep having them over and over and still not supporting them that is when I think they should be adopted out. :fuelfire: