The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on January 18, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
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ixion
Role reversal: Employers say they can't find workers
More than half of U.S. employers surveyed by the staffing firm Manpower Group last year said they were having trouble filling job openings because they couldn't find qualified workers. That’s a huge 38 percentage point jump from 2010, when only 14 percent said they were having trouble filling positions.
Economists and labor experts say that in some industries, there is a legitimate talent shortage: There simply aren't enough workers with the skills needed to do the jobs available.
http://lifeinc.today.msnbc.msn.com/_...t-find-workers
This is complete and utter rubbish. The PROBLEM is that they want to pay third-world wages for the talent they need. I've seen listings for Sr. Software Engineers that were paying 50k or LESS. Any self-respecting software engineer isn't going to work for those wages. Period. This article is simply an attempt to provide framing for out-sourcing and/or H1-B visas, in my opinion.
High Jinx :stoner:
I agree with you 100% and have been saying the same thing for years. Add to that no bennies.
An example which is absolutely true. Five years or more ago a controller in the metro area I was in, middle sized community, was $45-60K annually with bennies. When I left, having given up finding legitimate work there a year ago, there were regular adverts for Controller with BA (MBA preferred), 5+ years experience, CPA, currently employed, credit and background check required for . . . . . .
$8.50 hour.
I assure you there are many qualified for that position, but why should anyone with those qualifications be expected to work for that little?
Liberty
Agree -- it's rubbish.
The move is to look for desperate talent who have to accept hourly wages -- limited benefits --
6 months temporary employment -- no health care for 6 months -- no sick days -- no holidays --
Downward spiral.
We need to resurrect a UNITED LABOR organization which everyone is included in and make
corporations come to the union to find workers. The UNION would set the wages, hours,
benefits. If they want employees and profits, those would be the conditions.
Additionally, we need to be thinking in terms of limiting the work day -- 5 hours a day ==
pretty much anyone can do that. Maybe 4 days a week. Object: FULL EMPLOYMENT
cmaukonen
Let me add something here.
It's now possible for anyone with a digital SLR camera and some good software on a fairly fast computer to get results - in a few hours - that would have taken a professional photographer hours or even days to get in a dark room.
This kind of technology for manufacturing - 3D printing and CNC milling/routing/lathe - is now making it's way into the consumer are as well. Joe Handyman is now getting into CAD and automation is his workshop. Either buy ready make units or kits or making these things himself.
Like the PC which was the domain of geeks and nerds in the past, this too will also find it's way in greater and greater amounts into the realm of the average guy/gal. There are already 3D printers for plastic, metal, ceramic and even food.
This will have the greatest impact on the workforce, economy and society. Making cottage industries even more common that they are today.
So in a way the free market clowns may get some of what they want but not in they way they imagined.
Kind of a be cafreful what you wish for, you might actually get it.
Having been in technology for 50 years one way or another I can tell you this. Once the consumer gets it hand on the it. Once it's no longer just the domain of big factories and geeks and labs - it a whole other ball game.
HighJinx
You seem to have a fairy tale idea of how much technology can create in the way of usable items. It isn't going to build houses, create food, create transportation, or many of the other tasks. Secondly it takes industrialized situations to make the computers and technological items you're so enthralled with as well as the machines for building, making roads, installing and maintaining electrical, computer, and various systems, kitchen appliances, and so much more. People will never own the technology that will erase all industrialization, not even close.
****ing retards don't even know theiur own doctrine enough to know when they've supposedly won.
Marx bitched that the rich controlled the means of production and were thus able to hold the sword of necessity over the heads of the workers. His theory claimed that if the workers collectivized and worked for their mutual benefit then that threat of privation was abolished and they would be free. What cmaukonen was speaking to--the very thing HighJinx is convinced as unattainable--is the worker owning the means to provide for his own sustenance.
But hey, this liberty was not achieved through the barrel of a gun so it must be invalid...especially since the free market provided it.
The issue isn't the issue, the revolution is the issue.
http://www.leftunderground.com/threads/1606-Role-reversal-Employers-say-they-can-t-find-workers
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High Jinx
I agree with you 100% and have been saying the same thing for years. Add to that no bennies.
An example which is absolutely true. Five years or more ago a controller in the metro area I was in, middle sized community, was $45-60K annually with bennies. When I left, having given up finding legitimate work there a year ago, there were regular adverts for Controller with BA (MBA preferred), 5+ years experience, CPA, currently employed, credit and background check required for . . . . . .
$8.50 hour.
I assure you there are many qualified for that position, but why should anyone with those qualifications be expected to work for that little?
Liar lips
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Liar lips
Concur.
On my sojourn from FL to CO I passed through Dodge City, whose local Gas-n-Go was starting clerks at $10 to $12 an hour; a wage I would have rejoiced at when I was in the significantly more demanding and skill-oriented full-service restaurant management career.
It may have been due to the fact it was downwind of the feed lot, or maybe not, but that was what the sign was advertising for starting wages.
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The problem in my field is we can't find qualified people at any price. I do interviews a couple times a week and most candidates are rejected because they lack experience. I was as a DBA in a large company and there is a shortage of good DBAs.We can even go offshore to get the help we need. Its not a matter of money, the pay is great. It's a matter of quality and experience and there just isn't any available.
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Self confessed DUmmie IT experts still looking for jobs as a keypunch operators.
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The problem in my field is we can't find qualified people at any price. I do interviews a couple times a week and most candidates are rejected because they lack experience. I was as a DBA in a large company and there is a shortage of good DBAs.We can even go offshore to get the help we need. Its not a matter of money, the pay is great. It's a matter of quality and experience and there just isn't any available.
How does one gain experience when the field hires "experienced applicants only"?
Is it a matter of the newly trained just seeking smaller ponds in which to fish until they gain the requisite experience? Near as I can imagine smaller firms don't need DBAs because--well--they're smaller.
Is it feasible to have internships that impart experience during the course of study so as the requisite experience is available upon graduation?
I'm wholly sympathetic to a business protecting its own best interests by setting the qualifications and compensation it deems most fitting but if you're telling us a position important enough to have been created, funded and supported sits vacant for months then it seems the mission is not being accomplished at any rate. Either it wasn't as important as first thought or the qualifications have become an obstruction to the desired result. Surely somebody, experienced or otherwise, has the skills to administrate the DB.
DISCLAIMER: I have no idea what the **** I'm talking about when it comes to DBAs; I'm just asking general questions.
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This is complete and utter rubbish. The PROBLEM is that they want to pay third-world wages for the talent they need. I've seen listings for Sr. Software Engineers that were paying 50k or LESS. Any self-respecting software engineer isn't going to work for those wages. Period. This article is simply an attempt to provide framing for out-sourcing and/or H1-B visas, in my opinion.
So what's your alternative, sit on your dead asses at home and make 0k per year doing nothing? Collect an unemployment check courtesy of taxpayers who aren't too proud to do what it takes to get an income for their families? Whatever happened to taking a less-than-desireable job until a better one came along, or taking the time to work your way up in the one you have? Your opinion of your own worth is waaaaaay overinflated, DUmmies.
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Liar lips
Indeed- I went by my local McDonalds on the way to work for a quick bite, and they had a sign at the drive-up window looking for workers for all shifts, starting at $9 an hour including benefits.
Unskilled labor (piecework at a mill) usually starts at $10
There is no way that a skilled position starts at $8.50 an hour.
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The problem in my field is we can't find qualified people at any price. I do interviews a couple times a week and most candidates are rejected because they lack experience. I was as a DBA in a large company and there is a shortage of good DBAs.We can even go offshore to get the help we need. Its not a matter of money, the pay is great. It's a matter of quality and experience and there just isn't any available.
What is a DBA?
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Concur.
On my sojourn from FL to CO I passed through Dodge City, whose local Gas-n-Go was starting clerks at $10 to $12 an hour; a wage I would have rejoiced at when I was in the significantly more demanding and skill-oriented full-service restaurant management career.
It may have been due to the fact it was downwind of the feed lot, or maybe not, but that was what the sign was advertising for starting wages.
My son, straight out of college (industrial design) got a job paying $24 per hour...and this was an INTERNSHIP. That internship was over just before Christmas, he got another job paying about the same amount before the other job ended. The previous year he had an internship during the summer and made about the same amount as well.
Obviously if he was married and had children these intern jobs would not be the optimum situation (first one just for the summer, the next two are 6 month stints) but that is why he is not married or has children. He is just starting his career and with every internship it leads to more experience and new opportunities. My son, at the ripe old age of 22, has a resume that is more impressive than the great majority of DUers.
...ask yourself why lurking libs.
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What is a DBA?
DataBase Administrator
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How does one gain experience when the field hires "experienced applicants only"?
Is it a matter of the newly trained just seeking smaller ponds in which to fish until they gain the requisite experience? Near as I can imagine smaller firms don't need DBAs because--well--they're smaller.
Is it feasible to have internships that impart experience during the course of study so as the requisite experience is available upon graduation?
I'm wholly sympathetic to a business protecting its own best interests by setting the qualifications and compensation it deems most fitting but if you're telling us a position important enough to have been created, funded and supported sits vacant for months then it seems the mission is not being accomplished at any rate. Either it wasn't as important as first thought or the qualifications have become an obstruction to the desired result. Surely somebody, experienced or otherwise, has the skills to administrate the DB.
DISCLAIMER: I have no idea what the **** I'm talking about when it comes to DBAs; I'm just asking general questions.
Nearly every decent job requires prior experience.
That's why the DUmpmonkeys talk about the miserable wages they're offered.
They never advance beyond entry level because weed usually shows up in their first drug screening.
A neurosurgeon's first paid medical job is as an intern, whose hourly rate is probably less than what an unemployed democrat babymama gets from the taxpayers.
Not being a democrat, he accepts the low pay in return for experience, moves to a better rate as a resident, gets more experience, and eventually advances to a very good living.
DUmpmonkeys judge a job by entry level pay.
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I have over 15 years in the Engineering field as a technician. I have tons of AutoCAD experience. Problem is, I worked my way up in my old company with determination and hard work. I do not have an engineering degree. That is now hurting me in my job hunting. I am competing for jobs I am qualified for against people with degrees. I am close to getting a job working night sift at the local Waffle House to get me by until I find something better. I also work "events" at a local county club (as a server) through Manpower. This is also temporary. I am willing to do what I have to do until I get something better. There is no law against looking for another (better) job while you make do with one less "desirable". The thing is, if you are on unemployment, you can still work (they will make up the difference, if there is any). If you can make MORE by working a less than desirable job, why not do that? (We all know the answer to THAT...it's just an excuse for the lazy out there...)
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I have over 15 years in the Engineering field as a technician. I have tons of AutoCAD experience. Problem is, I worked my way up in my old company with determination and hard work. I do not have an engineering degree. That is now hurting me in my job hunting. I am competing for jobs I am qualified for against people with degrees. I am close to getting a job working night sift at the local Waffle House to get me by until I find something better. I also work "events" at a local county club (as a server) through Manpower. This is also temporary. I am willing to do what I have to do until I get something better. There is no law against looking for another (better) job while you make do with one less "desirable". The thing is, if you are on unemployment, you can still work (they will make up the difference, if there is any). If you can make MORE by working a less than desirable job, why not do that? (We all know the answer to THAT...it's just an excuse for the lazy out there...)
You will do well Dixierose, your attitude and work ethic will win out in the end.
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DUmpmonkeys judge a job by entry level pay.
I was a street-running shitbag when I went into the army at the tender age of seventeen summers; but I learned to admire many good people. I had dropped out of the 10th grade after failing it twice (ironically, my GT is 138). I went back into the civilian world with no certifiable education.
All I could do was emulate the people I admire. It was never of my own doing because I had no such skills of my own; I could only imitate my betters. They possessed something so simple it seems mundane yet the rest of the world cherishes it as if it were mana from Heaven: a work ethic
Within 4 months I was being trained for management.
When I moved on to another town I became field supervisor in 3 months.
The pattern of advancement repeated itself on up until I became a restaurant manager and there I was given a skillset that translated into far more lucrative opportunities. I was even logisitics manager for a fine art company that held art auctions at sea including the recently ill-fated Concordia. I have held orginal Rockwell, Erte, Nikita and Dali pieces as well as Disney animation cels in my paws.
Now I have a job where my supervisors are trying to not only find the budget to keep me but give me a raise.
All because my singular claim to intelligence is that I knew who was better than me and I tried to mimic them.
And my self-esteem suffers not one iota knowing that I have people better than me, any more than looking at the works of fine art demoralized my creative spirit.
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For all the lurking "I live with my parents" retards out there.
OOPS! Please allow me to rephrase that, gotta be PC ya know...
For all the lurking "I live with my parents" Libtards out there...
Enjoy some good ol' American rock & roll~
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbAoXw_DqvM[/youtube]
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The problem in my field is we can't find qualified people at any price. I do interviews a couple times a week and most candidates are rejected because they lack experience. I was as a DBA in a large company and there is a shortage of good DBAs.We can even go offshore to get the help we need. Its not a matter of money, the pay is great. It's a matter of quality and experience and there just isn't any available.
Try having to hire a DBA that actually has a vowel in his name.
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Thanks, BEG. I'm 100% confident that if I can get my foot in the door somewhere that I will impress.
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I was a street-running shitbag when I went into the army at the tender age of seventeen summers; but I learned to admire many good people. I had dropped out of the 10th grade after failing it twice (ironically, my GT is 138). I went back into the civilian world with no certifiable education.
All I could do was emulate the people I admire. It was never of my own doing because I had no such skills of my own; I could only imitate my betters. They possessed something so simple it seems mundane yet the rest of the world cherishes it as if it were mana from Heaven: a work ethic
Within 4 months I was being trained for management.
When I moved on to another town I became field supervisor in 3 months.
The pattern of advancement repeated itself on up until I became a restaurant manager and there I was given a skillset that translated into far more lucrative opportunities. I was even logisitics manager for a fine art company that held art auctions at sea including the recently ill-fated Concordia. I have held orginal Rockwell, Erte, Nikita and Dali pieces as well as Disney animation cels in my paws.
Now I have a job where my supervisors are trying to not only find the budget to keep me but give me a raise.
All because my singular claim to intelligence is that I knew who was better than me and I tried to mimic them.
And my self-esteem suffers not one iota knowing that I have people better than me, any more than looking at the works of fine art demoralized my creative spirit.
What you wrote is totally true. Your work ethic is why you are where you are. Men (and women) like you totally impress me. H5
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I have over 15 years in the Engineering field as a technician. I have tons of AutoCAD experience. Problem is, I worked my way up in my old company with determination and hard work. I do not have an engineering degree. That is now hurting me in my job hunting. I am competing for jobs I am qualified for against people with degrees. I am close to getting a job working night sift at the local Waffle House to get me by until I find something better. I also work "events" at a local county club (as a server) through Manpower. This is also temporary. I am willing to do what I have to do until I get something better. There is no law against looking for another (better) job while you make do with one less "desirable". The thing is, if you are on unemployment, you can still work (they will make up the difference, if there is any). If you can make MORE by working a less than desirable job, why not do that? (We all know the answer to THAT...it's just an excuse for the lazy out there...)
Smart managers will always buy experience over book learning. You don't have a problem after 15 years of actually accomplishing projects.
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The problem in my field is we can't find qualified people at any price. I do interviews a couple times a week and most candidates are rejected because they lack experience. I was as a DBA in a large company and there is a shortage of good DBAs.We can even go offshore to get the help we need. Its not a matter of money, the pay is great. It's a matter of quality and experience and there just isn't any available.
What is your answer to the eternal question of the recent college / trade school graduate:
"How in the Blue Hell am I supposed to get experience before I've had my first job?"
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So what's your alternative, sit on your dead asses at home and make 0k per year doing nothing? Collect an unemployment check courtesy of taxpayers who aren't too proud to do what it takes to get an income for their families? Whatever happened to taking a less-than-desireable job until a better one came along, or taking the time to work your way up in the one you have? Your opinion of your own worth is waaaaaay overinflated, DUmmies.
A couple of years ago I took a temporary job that paid a whopping $8 an hour which gave me some local work experience (I had just moved here) and within a year I found a better job, and hope to find an even better one soon, none of them chuckleheads would do that ever. Then they wonder why they can't find work, there is a lot of truth to, if you want a job it's much easier to get hired if you are currently working.
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When you tell an employer that you are over qualified for their crappy job, they do tend to agree with you, DUmmies.
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Its a matter of adaption -
I ended up delivering mail because it pays well, and because there was job availability, vs college education- El-Ed major with a minor in music. The post office was running a testing battery, I applied with a bazillion others, and I got in. Not to brag, but I did well enough to get in one day after I got my results in the mail, provided I didn't fail the twentyish background/drug tests.
The missus' degree says she is a psychologist. Instead, she works for the regional energy monopoly.
I have had several unrelated jobs, and learn to adapt to a new one if the current well is about to run dry. That's life.
And you know what, primitives ? I never went 'backwards' as far as money is concerned - I always found a new job with equal or greater pay. Some would call that luck, I call it willingness to adapt. Try it sometime.
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Liar lips
Total liar lips when you can get an entry level bookkeeping position at a SMALL company for 12-13 bucks an hour plus benefits. There's no way someone with all of those qualifications would be offered only that. What a load of steaming horse manure.
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When you tell an employer that you are over qualified for their crappy job, they do tend to agree with you, DUmmies.
Yeah, when I'm interviewing, I tend to think it's "me" interviewing for a job, not "them" interviewing for my services. In an employer's market, there's no wonder why so many of those DUmbasses are unemployed. It's supply vs. demand, DUmbasses. Then again, you ****tards are clueless to that concept. (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,68654.0.html)
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The first job I found after being unemployed for five months paid $9/hr... and it was a temp job. I took it because it was money and better than unemployment. It was hard to get by on such a small amount of income, but we managed to still pay our bills, rent and keep food on the table. DUmmies, you are just lazy. You have no motivation to improve yourself. You want other people to pay your way.
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The first job I found after being unemployed for five months paid $9/hr... and it was a temp job. I took it because it was money and better than unemployment.
But it's not. Not here. That's the shit that needs to change. Instead of these JACKASSES "working their asses off to extend unemployment", hey, how about working your asses off to get the hell OUT OF THE WAY!? People, save a few, don't WANT unemployment; they want a f'n JOB!
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I was a street-running shitbag when I went into the army at the tender age of seventeen summers; but I learned to admire many good people. I had dropped out of the 10th grade after failing it twice (ironically, my GT is 138). I went back into the civilian world with no certifiable education.
All I could do was emulate the people I admire. It was never of my own doing because I had no such skills of my own; I could only imitate my betters. They possessed something so simple it seems mundane yet the rest of the world cherishes it as if it were mana from Heaven: a work ethic
Within 4 months I was being trained for management.
When I moved on to another town I became field supervisor in 3 months.
The pattern of advancement repeated itself on up until I became a restaurant manager and there I was given a skillset that translated into far more lucrative opportunities. I was even logisitics manager for a fine art company that held art auctions at sea including the recently ill-fated Concordia. I have held orginal Rockwell, Erte, Nikita and Dali pieces as well as Disney animation cels in my paws.
Now I have a job where my supervisors are trying to not only find the budget to keep me but give me a raise.
All because my singular claim to intelligence is that I knew who was better than me and I tried to mimic them.
And my self-esteem suffers not one iota knowing that I have people better than me, any more than looking at the works of fine art demoralized my creative spirit.
When I first started as a driver for a trucking company at the ripe old age of 22, I was already an accomplished welder, mechanic, electrician, and plumber. NO formal training in any of these fields, just what I had to learn in order to keep a dairy farm working. It was either that, or pay someone else thousands of dollars to do the work for me.
The owner of the company agreed to let me do routine maintenance on the 6 trucks at our warehouse for a flat monthly fee, so I took it. At the time, we had NO trucks with fuel injection, just carbs, but when they started replacing our aging fleet with the newer ones with fuel injection, I bought a book and started reading. It didn't take me long to figure out what system did what, and how that related to engine performance. Still no formal training, but I can diagnose engine problems as good as the "factory trained" mechanics, and the only time my cars go to a dealer is for recalls.
Today, I, like miskie, work for the Postal Service, and not a day goes by that SOMEONE isn't asking me about a problem with their car. LOL!
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When I first started as a driver for a trucking company at the ripe old age of 22, I was already an accomplished welder, mechanic, electrician, and plumber. NO formal training in any of these fields, just what I had to learn in order to keep a dairy farm working. It was either that, or pay someone else thousands of dollars to do the work for me...
I attribute our common experience to our common mindset: we count everything as an educational opportunity that expands skillsets.
Contrast that with our opposites who seem to think providing for one's self is at best an inconvenience, at worse an injustice foisted upon them by society.
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I attribute our common experience to our common mindset: we count everything as an educational opportunity that expands skillsets.
Contrast that with our opposites who seem to think providing for one's self is at best an inconvenience, at worse an injustice foisted upon them by society.
That right there sums it up perfectly.
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Smart managers will always buy experience over book learning. You don't have a problem after 15 years of actually accomplishing projects.
Not always, especially in big companies.
Nearly all the entry level jobs that lead to good career paths have degree requirements the hiring manager cannot override.
The company has to protect itself from DUmmies who will bring suit over hiring practices. That means procedural consistency is usually important than considering individual applicants.
In court, "good judgment" becomes a discriminatory or arbitrary decision, and litigation costs a fortune even when the company wins.
The DUmbasses who look at corporations as lucrative targets for litigation are to thank for lots of corporate practices that people love to hate.
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Try having to hire a DBA that actually has a vowel in his name.
I'm taking training for DBA this year. I hope it pays off, I'm more used to designing and building comm rigs.
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Smart managers will always buy experience over book learning. You don't have a problem after 15 years of actually accomplishing projects.
Um...yeah...
In the military we have these things called "officers" that tend to disprove your axiom.
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Um...yeah...
In the military we have these things called "officers" that tend to disprove your axiom.
15-20 year Sergeant First Class to brand new Second LT: "I'm telling you, Sir, sit down and shut up. I'm running this."
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15-20 year Sergeant First Class to brand new Second LT: "I'm telling you, Sir, sit down and shut up. I'm running this."
The only thing in the US Army more dangerous than a 2LT with an idea is two 2LTs with a plan.
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It just took us a month to find a new maintence man at work. Not due to a lack of applicants. Due to a lack of candidates who had studied enough to pass a drug test. They went 5 of 6 before they found a winner, and he ended up being a transfer.
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The only thing in the US Army more dangerous than a 2LT with an idea is two 2LTs with a plan.
The 5 most dangerous sayings in the Army:
The Private who says "Well, they taught us in basic..."
The Sergeant who says "Trust me, Sir..."
The LT who says "Based upon my experience..."
The Captain who says "I've been thinking..."
The Sergeant Major who says "Watch this shit..."