The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Alpha Mare on July 06, 2011, 07:08:17 PM
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Here we go again.
The Obama administration has urged Texas to delay the execution of a Mexican man, saying it would put the US in breach of international obligations.
Humberto Leal Garcia, 38, faces lethal injection on Thursday for the rape and murder of a 16-year-old girl in 1994.
He was not told he could have access to Mexican consular officials, in violation of the Vienna Convention.
The parole board refused to halt the sentence and Texas Governor Rick Perry has indicated he will not intervene.
Leal, who moved to the US when he was a small child, is one of 51 Mexican nationals on death row who were the focus of a 2004 ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ).
The court said that their convictions should be reviewed because they were denied consular access. President George W Bush told Texas officials they should comply with the ICJ order but the Supreme Court ruled that he had overstepped his authority.
In August 2008, Texas, which argued that its courts were not bound by the rulings of the ICJ, executed Mexican Jose Medellin.
With the Texas parole board's decision, Leal's fate now rests with Governor Rick Perry or the Supreme Court. Mr Perry's office has said he has no plans to stop the execution.
"if you commit the most heinous of crimes in Texas, you can expect to face the ultimate penalty under our laws, as in this case," spokeswoman Katherine Cesinger said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14041953
:thatsright: forgot the link
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DOiJ investigation of Texas Department of Corrections will commence in 3-2-1......
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Obama hates Texas.
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I would love to see Perry continue to maintain his stance. I would so love to see that.
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This slimy bastard's been on death row for 17 years, suckin' up resources.
It's time he met his Maker.
**** the ICJ. Useless two-bit entertainers all wrapped around themselves and their lofty sense of "justice."
Let 'em get a taste of Texas justice.
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99% chance this Mexican dies on his execution date.
KC
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Many DUmmies (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1425829) are not happy that Texas is flaunting the ICJ request, especially sooper intelleckual nadinletters. Other DUmmies take a more pragmatic view and want the scumbag dead.
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So he wants to circumvent state law.
Where have I heard that before? :whistling:
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So he wants to circumvent state law.
Where have I heard that before? :whistling:
Bet he can't circumvent the laws of chemistry.
KC
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Agreed!
"Better death through chemistry."
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99% chance this Mexican dies on his execution date.
KC
Horrible thing to pray for someone's death, but please, dear Lord. Please.
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Agreed!
"Better death through chemistry."
Yeah and that's unfortunate. They should let us bash his head in with a large piece of asphalt. If it was good enough for his 16 year old victim it should be good enough for him.
KC
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Yeah and that's unfortunate. They should let us bash his head in with a large piece of asphalt. If it was good enough for his 16 year old victim it should be good enough for him.
KC
Well, one way or another, he needs to be gone.
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Well, one way or another, he needs to be gone.
Well, at least we didn't let a small thing like lack of chemicals get in the way. :-)
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Last Friday, the Obama administration asked the U.S. Supreme Court to stop Texas from executing Leal, asking the court to delay the execution for up to six months to give Congress time to consider legislation that would enforce the U.N. treaty.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/06/mexican-national-inmate-on-death-row-creates-international-stir/#ixzz1RNgnYXnM
Obama wants congress to pass a law that would enforce the UN treaty. WTF? Wouldn't this fall under the heading of Ex Post Facto?
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"Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day sone, the wicked had to answer for all the wicked he had done. Find the longest rope in texas and tall oak tree.Round up all those bad boys hang em high in the tree, for all the people to see" :-) Wille Nelson
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"Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day sone, the wicked had to answer for all the wicked he had done. Find the longest rope in texas and tall oak tree. hang em high on the branch, for all the people to see" :-)Wille Nelson
I maintain the world would be a better place if we still adhered to that particular practice.
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Obama wants congress to pass a law that would enforce the UN treaty. WTF? Wouldn't this fall under the heading of Ex Post Facto?
Yes, in my opinion.
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No internet link that I could find the last time I checked. I'm sure this must be copyrighted, but I can't locate anything. This was one of my favorite Mike Royko columns. I saved it in Word.
Mike Royko, Chicago TRIBUNE, August 18, 1993
Exclamation points in judge’s sentence
I’m often surprised at how restrained and unemotional most judges are when sentencing some two-legged beast to prison.
It’s seldom that a judge blows off steam for himself and society in general.
Most of them deliver lectures that are less harsh than some of my old principals gave us when we were caught sneaking a smoke in the boy’s washroom.
That’s probably because some bar groups would start screaming that the judge was not displaying proper judicial decorum.
It’s the position of the American Bar Association that judges should start tossing some fire and brimstone into their sentencing speeches.
They might look to Judge W/ Wyatt McKay for inspiration.
<SNIP>
Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-08-18/news/9308180038_1_sentence-after-long-sentence-zaps-children-proper-judicial-decorum)
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No internet link that I could find the last time I checked. I'm sure this must be copyrighted, but I can't locate anything. This was one of my favorite Mike Royko columns. I saved it in Word.
Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-08-18/news/9308180038_1_sentence-after-long-sentence-zaps-children-proper-judicial-decorum)
Outstanding!
I like the way that judge thinks. And the way Roy Bean thought as well.....
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I think when there is zero doubt the person committed the crime then all this BS about not having a Miranda warning or not being allowed to talk to your Consulate should just be thrown to the winds. What the hell difference does it make?
If you absolutely, 100% committed the crime then why should it matter if you were told you have a right to remain silent? You have a right to talk to someone from your own country?
All that does is make the process to get your sorry ass dead take longer and cost me money. If you did it and it was a heinous crime then you go straight out behind the court house, get on your knees, spend what little time you have left to talk to God then someone puts a bullet behind your ear. I don't even want to spend money on a last meal, you don't deserve it.
KC
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Whoever found the link, thank you. For years I looked for the article, but I didn't look this time since all my years of previous research turned up nothing. It was in one of Royko's books.
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Obama wants congress to pass a law that would enforce the UN treaty. WTF? Wouldn't this fall under the heading of Ex Post Facto?
No, treaties are law on the same footing as statutes already, IF they were properly signed and ratified, on which I don't believe there is any dispute as far as the Vienna Protocol goes, which is at the root of this legally, not the ICJ request. Texas did fail to follow the Vienna Protocol, but the question in our legal system is whether that amounts to error per se, or whether it will be analyzed on a 'Harmful error' basis. In the latter case he is probably still toast, since the right under the Protocol is mainly a right to contact the home country's consulate, and does not give the foreign government any rights to intervene in the trial.
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Never asked for access to consular, and it wouldn't have changed the outcome anyway. Same tired-assed "I'm the real victim" defense.
Like Ron White says: "If you kill somebody in Texas, we'll kill you back."
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Outstanding!
I like the way that judge thinks. And the way Roy Bean thought as well.....
Judge McKay is still on the bench, and still handing down logical conclusions.
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No, treaties are law on the same footing as statutes already, IF they were properly signed and ratified, on which I don't believe there is any dispute as far as the Vienna Protocol goes, which is at the root of this legally, not the ICJ request. Texas did fail to follow the Vienna Protocol, but the question in our legal system is whether that amounts to error per se, or whether it will be analyzed on a 'Harmful error' basis. In the latter case he is probably still toast, since the right under the Protocol is mainly a right to contact the home country's consulate, and does not give the foreign government any rights to intervene in the trial.
From what I understand, though, is that states are not bound by treaties pertaining to civil law unless congress has passed a law that makes it so. That is why Obama wants congress to pass a law regarding this case. That is why it seems like Ex Post Facto comes into play. Texas has tried and convicted this scum, and now Obama wants a law passed that would basically invalidate that conviction.
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From what I understand, though, is that states are not bound by treaties pertaining to civil law unless congress has passed a law that makes it so. That is why Obama wants congress to pass a law regarding this case. That is why it seems like Ex Post Facto comes into play. Texas has tried and convicted this scum, and now Obama wants a law passed that would basically invalidate that conviction.
That's also my understanding.
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I agree with Texan Ron White's take on capital punishment. "While some states are moving away from capital punishment my state's putting in an express lane"... :-)
Fry his ass. If Mexico wants the carcass back let them pay for the shipping.
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From what I understand, though, is that states are not bound by treaties pertaining to civil law unless congress has passed a law that makes it so. That is why Obama wants congress to pass a law regarding this case. That is why it seems like Ex Post Facto comes into play. Texas has tried and convicted this scum, and now Obama wants a law passed that would basically invalidate that conviction.
Well, the Supreme Court isn't going to do jack based on a law that hasn't been passed yet, even Eric Holder could figure that one out, so the ex post facto issue you're talking about really can't be involved here at all.
I would not bet the rent on that part about a treaty being unable to affect State criminal law proceedings ("Civil law" means at least three different and unrelated things, so it is a great term to steer away from) since Treaties are Federal law, and a Federal law that affords a civil right to someone subject to US jurisdiction is enforceable as a due process/equal protection issue under the 14th Amendment and Federal supremacy against a State proceeding under 18 USC 1983 and related statutes, which goes back long before this dirtbag was originally convicted.
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Well, the Supreme Court isn't going to do jack based on a law that hasn't been passed yet, even Eric Holder could figure that one out, so the ex post facto issue you're talking about really can't be involved here at all.
I would not bet the rent on that part about a treaty being unable to affect State criminal law proceedings ("Civil law" means at least three different and unrelated things, so it is a great term to steer away from) since Treaties are Federal law, and a Federal law that affords a civil right to someone subject to US jurisdiction is enforceable as a due process/equal protection issue under the 14th Amendment and Federal supremacy against a State proceeding under 18 USC 1983 and related statutes, which goes back long before this dirtbag was originally convicted.
Yet Obama and his cronies must believe that Texas is within their rights to carry out the execution, or they wouldn't be requesting anything, they would be ordering Texas to stay the execution.
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Would the fact that said dirtbag has been charged with/convicted of a state versus federal capital crime have any bearing (or lack thereof) in regards to the treaty under discussion?
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Based on the OP, it appears that SCOTUS has already made a decision on this:
The court said that their convictions should be reviewed because they were denied consular access. President George W Bush told Texas officials they should comply with the ICJ order but the Supreme Court ruled that he had overstepped his authority.
Obama, if he's so concerned about this HAS the power to pardon the offender.......problem solved......it wouldn't do his reelection chances any good however.....
doc
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Based on the OP, it appears that SCOTUS has already made a decision on this:
Obama, if he's so concerned about this HAS the power to pardon the offender.......problem solved......it wouldn't do his reelection chances any good however.....
doc
Heh, heh. I'd love to see Obama issue that pardon.
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Texas has tried and convicted this scum, and now Obama wants a law passed that would basically invalidate that conviction.
yeah, yet again going against the will of the people and butting into something that he should STFU and leave alone.
We can take care of our own down here in Texas, Mr. Asshat. :censored: :bird: :mad:
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If he is guilty, hang him high!!!
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Yet Obama and his cronies must believe that Texas is within their rights to carry out the execution, or they wouldn't be requesting anything, they would be ordering Texas to stay the execution.
Yeah, I think the bottom line is that the issue isn't entirely clear where a federal republic with sovereign lower constituents is a signatory to the Protocol, but if the court decides it does apply, then it will come down to whether it was error per se, which would keep the scum alive for retrial, or harmless error, meaning it wouldn't have affected the outcome anyway.
Without digging through it to be sure, I am not 100% sure the Vienna Protocol even applies to illegals, as opposed to people legally in a foreign country on honest-to-God properly-issued visas.
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Yeah, I think the bottom line is that the issue isn't entirely clear where a federal republic with sovereign lower constituents is a signatory to the Protocol, but if the court decides it does apply, then it will come down to whether it was error per se, which would keep the scum alive for retrial, or harmless error, meaning it wouldn't have affected the outcome anyway.
Without digging through it to be sure, I am not 100% sure the Vienna Protocol even applies to illegals, as opposed to people legally in a foreign country on honest-to-God properly-issued visas.
To be safe, let him get the needle, then the lawyers can argue about it.
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To be safe, let him get the needle, then the lawyers can argue about it.
Works for me!
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Mexican national and convicted murderer Humberto Leal Garcia Jr. has been executed by lethal injection in Texas.
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Adios cucaracha! :fuelfire: :tongue: :loser: :-)
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Mexican national and convicted murderer Humberto Leal Garcia Jr. has been executed by lethal injection in Texas.
GOOD! :yahoo: One less piece of trash breathing the air we breathe.
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His last words were "Viva La Mexico". He said it twice. The UN got Perry punked.
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I started to drive into town last night to take pictures of any protestors that may show up for the execution but I didn't feel like it. I should have done it anyway.
KC