The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gina on May 16, 2011, 08:58:08 PM
-
This is a topic on a mother's forum. I wanted to see how this group would respond to the question. The majority on the board are furious only about the gloves/tape. No one thinks the kid should be sent home. They say it's the schools responsibility to take care of the child whacking off.
Here's a situation that was presented to me by a friend of mine. She gave me permission to ask around for ideas.
10 year old boy with autism but not an intellectual disability has started masturbating at school, openly and frequently. He has an individual assitant at school, plus the family has hired outside help to assist the school in coming up with a program to try to stop this behavior. The latest problem is that when he's redirected to stop masturbating, he lashes out by pinching the person closest to him.
School calls mom at work and says that he's masturbating and pinching and would she like to come pick him up. Mom says that she's at work and that the school should continue managing his behavior since they're staffed for it, school accepts that answer. School also calls dad at work to let him know that it's a difficult day for the child's behavior but does not ask dad if he can pick up the child.
Boy gets home from school and he has gardening gloves taped to his arms with packing tape. The school sent a note home saying they did that because he would not stop pinching them. Removing the tape is painful and leaves red welts on his arms since he was wearing a tshirt.
Thoughts? What should happen next?
-
I don't see a problem with it. It's not permanent damage and something had to be done.
KC
-
That's the problem with today's society. Schools seem to be little more than babysitters that try to teach kids. In my day, a kid would have gotten their ass busted. If it continued, they would have been expelled. Simple as that. Of course, we didn't have kids with autism, cerebral palsy or mental illnesses attending a public school. ADHD wasn't even heard of back then.
-
Is this boy integrated into regular classrooms?
I remember the first year they started integrating mildly retarded students, and others with mental disorders in my regular elementary classroom. Once, it took 40 minutes to get the retarded student we had in our class to open his book to the right page. He knew what he was doing, (being disruptive), and used his mental disorder to his advantage.
I wouldn't have any problem with the means they used to alleviate the situation. If you send your children to public schools with disruptive problems that other adults will have to deal with, you are leaving the solution to these problems to their discretion, at least for the amount of time they are responsible for your child.
-
I don't know. The kid should have been removed from the classroom to the dean's office until his behavior for the day was brought under control. I know autistic kids are a real challenge, but he can not be allowed to interfere with the education of his fellow students.
-
He should have been removed from class immediately. It would really bother me if I found out a classmate of Carleigh's was masturbating in class. Is this a class for only autistic children or is this a regular classroom setting? The school should have informed mom and dad both that their son would be removed from class and will be waiting in the office for one of them to pick him up.
I didn't go to school with autistic children, at least none that I knew of anyway. I wouldn't really know how to handle this, but I'm not okay with anyone masturbating in a classroom. Mental illness or not. It's just unacceptable.
-
It's tough for both teachers and parents to have to deal with children who are mentally or emotionally challenged. They don't want to ship them off to special schools only to be forgotten, yet streamlining them in public schools may be harmful to the child to himself and other children. It's a tough decision all around...
When the other children go home with pinchmarks from this partcular child or makes a comment on how this child is "playing with his weinie in class". That would be alarming to a parent. The teachers are between a rock and a hard place. Trying to teach all the children in her class, yet have to deal with a disruptive child who takes all the attention
-
When I was a student, our system had one student with profound problems, though I was never told what they were. All I knew is that she wore huge, thick glasses, hearing aids, and was always loud and disruptive. She was in a few of the normal classes, but mostly in separate classes with instruction aimed at her alone. Her main teacher was...her mother. Yep. Her mother worked for the school system, and taught Remedial Reading classes for 2 or 3 hours a day, and her own child along with any other "difficult" kids the rest of the day. I personally don't know how many other kids were in the special class, or if she had assistants, though. I do know that the normal classes the child attended were PE/Gym, study hall, music, etc., NOT the classes like English, Math or History.
-
I have no problem with the way they "solved" the issue. While he may have had welts from the tape I am sure the people he pinched also had visible skin damage.
-
This is a topic on a mother's forum. I wanted to see how this group would respond to the question. The majority on the board are furious only about the gloves/tape. No one thinks the kid should be sent home. They say it's the schools responsibility to take care of the child whacking off.
The parents need to get the boy into his pdoc or neurologist to address the stimulating behaviour. Some autistic kids unfortunately can't be mainstreamed.We have "sensory rooms" here for when the autsies start stimming...rooms where there are physical things for them to do to stop or alleviate the destructive stimming!
-
.....No one thinks the kid should be sent home......
They are wrong. The school has to think of ALL the kids. You can't subject an entire school of kids to watching a kid masturbate just in order to cater to one kid. That is sensitivity run amok.
Unfortunately, in such situations, there is no perfect solution. But the welfare of all the kids has to be taken into account.
-
Taser the little bastard 'til he stops both behaviors.
-
Taser the little bastard 'til he stops both behaviors.
Spot on.
You know, if a "normal" kid behaved like that, the cops would be called and the kid would at least expelled from school. They want little Johnny treated like any other kid don't they? Well, expell his ass and let mom and dad worry about getting him educated after that.
-
Taser the little bastard 'til he stops both behaviors.
Well that will never happen obviously :whatever: Corporal punishment does not work with autistic children or people for that matter as they don't process the reason for it like you and i do. Also many autistic people have an extremely high pain threshold and they don't process pain like you or i do either.
-
Tell his parents the next time he whips out his love sausage in class, he'll be handed a sheet of 50 grit sandpaper and told to wear it down to a nub.
Seriously....
The kid needs to be removed from the "normal" population and put somewhere -- like a rubber room -- where the only person watching him whip his love stick is himself.
Forget education. He needs specific training in self-control.
-
Tell his parents the next time he whips out his love sausage in class, he'll be handed a sheet of 50 grit sandpaper and told to wear it down to a nub.
Seriously....
The kid needs to be removed from the "normal" population and put somewhere -- like a rubber room -- where the only person watching him whip his love stick is himself.
Forget education. He needs specific training in self-control.
A good definiton to explain the above Euph!"Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior.Autism affects information processing in the brain by altering how nerve cells and their synapses connect and organize; how this occurs is not well understood"
-
Well that will never happen obviously :whatever: Corporal punishment does not work with autistic children or people for that matter as they don't process the reason for it like you and i do. Also many autistic people have an extremely high pain threshold and they don't process pain like you or i do either.
Someone having a label is no reason to throw up your hands on dealing with them, either. If the kid can't be convinced or behaviorally conditioned to stop it, he just flat isn't close enough to the norm to be in with the regular students.
-
Someone having a label is no reason to throw up your hands on dealing with them, either. If the kid can't be convinced or behaviorally conditioned to stop it, he just flat isn't close enough to the norm to be in with the regular students.
To be fair toasted's response was addressing your extreme solution to dealing with the 'little bastard'. Perhaps the district should willingly seperate itself from the ample funds attached for the schooling of that child so he can b more adequately placed. I have some experience with a stellar district as well as autism and will comment more whem i'm home from my drs office and can use an actual keyboard instead of the phone.
-
I have no problem with how this was handled. i don't think it was ever answered what type of school/other students were involved. But once again thought they did the right thing.
-
I have no problem with how this was handled.
*giggle*
-
Someone having a label is no reason to throw up your hands on dealing with them, either. If the kid can't be convinced or behaviorally conditioned to stop it, he just flat isn't close enough to the norm to be in with the regular students.
It's not a label Tanker...Autism actually exists and what i told you is in fact..fact! I work with Autistic kids everyday. I see how they are handled by the Spc-ed teachers and the principal. I never said throw up your hands and give up did I? They do need to be removed from the presence of other children when they are doing or saying innapropriate things and they are. Sounds like the school in question was not equipped to handle Autism/PDD.
Here they have two classrooms devoted to about 24 autsies of varying severity on the PDD scale, when they start to stim they are separated from the other kids so as not to infringe on their learning.
-
Spot on.
You know, if a "normal" kid behaved like that, the cops would be called and the kid would at least expelled from school. They want little Johnny treated like any other kid don't they? Well, expell his ass and let mom and dad worry about getting him educated after that.
The daycare my daughter attends kicks children out after too many incidents. Our daughter is in the 1-2 year old room, so they only have problems with biters. I believe after three biting incidents, the director makes the decision to either "suspend" the child or kick them out completely.
Is it so much to ask to have a public school do the same?
-
To be fair toasted's response was addressing your extreme solution to dealing with the 'little bastard'. Perhaps the district should willingly seperate itself from the ample funds attached for the schooling of that child so he can b more adequately placed. I have some experience with a stellar district as well as autism and will comment more whem i'm home from my drs office and can use an actual keyboard instead of the phone.
Actually what I described is just an extreme and illegal example of behavioral conditioning, and the response was much broader than than you apparently took it, but was about autism generally. However, in the context of my smartassed answer, that response would mean even the most extreme conditioning would be fruitless to reprogram someone afflicted with autism, though of course we don't really have any information on the severity of it in this case except for the negative behaviors. If this can't be curbed by (Legal) conditioning or persuasion, leaving this kid in class is totall unacceptable since it is sexual abuse of the other kids, and therefore also willful child endangerment of the rest of the kids by his parents and the school administration. I can't believe anyone is okay with exposing other kids to that, but apparently the autism advocates are out in force today.
-
Actually what I described is just an extreme and illegal example of behavioral conditioning, and the response was much broader than than you apparently took it, but was about autism generally. However, in the context of my smartassed answer, that response would mean even the most extreme conditioning would be fruitless to reprogram someone afflicted with autism, though of course we don't really have any information on the severity of it in this case except for the negative behaviors. If this can't be curbed by (Legal) conditioning or persuasion, leaving this kid in class is totall unacceptable since it is sexual abuse of the other kids, and therefore also willful child endangerment of the rest of the kids by his parents and the school administration. I can't believe anyone is okay with exposing other kids to that, but apparently the autism advocates are out in force today.
Nope just a rational,reasonable guy who doesn't feel the need to "tase" a handicapped child when said child does something innapropriate.See? I can make black and white assumptions too Tanker! :-)
-
Actually what I described is just an extreme and illegal example of behavioral conditioning, and the response was much broader than than you apparently took it, but was about autism generally. However, in the context of my smartassed answer, that response would mean even the most extreme conditioning would be fruitless to reprogram someone afflicted with autism, though of course we don't really have any information on the severity of it in this case except for the negative behaviors. If this can't be curbed by (Legal) conditioning or persuasion, leaving this kid in class is totall unacceptable since it is sexual abuse of the other kids, and therefore also willful child endangerment of the rest of the kids by his parents and the school administration. I can't believe anyone is okay with exposing other kids to that, but apparently the autism advocates are out in force today.
Actually sir, behavioral therapies are one of the primary component of developing appropriate behaviors in autistic individuals, however those associated with violence are not successful because of the inadequate ability to associate a context for the punishment---btw, the same lack of context also applies to disagreeable stimulation as well...their context is about the same as the one a 2 year old has when they start pulling on the wee-wee too...it doesn't have the sexual overtones that some here would seem to like to prescribe to it. That's probably the biggest differentiation. I don't see discussion from what was said either that this has been a long term problem and that behavioral therapies have yet been implemented...sounds like the team just gave up because they were in shock. That too is not an appropriate response. So an autistic kid cursed, touched his private, or yelled in the hallway--these people are trained and paid big taxpayer bucks I might add to know how to address those situations. If the child had not been removed after a pattern of behavior then that is the ADULTS fault, not the child's and much of what I saw in response was aimed at the disabled child for Pete's sake, including yours.
However, that said, the behavior indeed does need to be addressed and behavioral therapies employed to redirect the inappropriate stimulation(and for those not aware, stimulation in an autistic context is not the sexual variety--stimulation could mean flapping hands, jumping up and down, banging a head on a wall, repetative behaviors of any kind).
For the record, you have retreated on a totally unambiguous comment calling it now smart-assed and wanting to give context to it after the fact. I'm sorry, sir, but I don't pretend to read your intent, I merely addressed what I read right before me in black and white and that's it. I didn't have the benefit of your context since you didn't provide it at that time. That is your fault, not mine. That said, it is you have decided to assign some intent and unsaid meaning to those who are trying to explain issues associated with autism or positive suggestions to deal with this situation. Even though you were given plenty of context from those individuals you have decided to snidely call them 'advocates of exposing children to inappropriate things' and never once didany of those 'advocates of inappropriate things' say this was appropriate behavior so lets put away the false platitudes shall we.
As I said, this school MAY not be equipped to deal with a child with issues like this. Like all conservatives, you should be advocating for the $$ for his education to follow him and perhaps this child can be placed in a learning situation more appropriate for his issues. A good conservative probably would give more fault with the grown ups trained and paid to care for and teach this child, including the parents, not the child himself. Furthermore, and with that said, how they handled it was perfectly acceptable INCLUDING REMOVING HIM FROM THE GENERAL POPULATION PRESENTLY(and no, that doesn't necessarily mean totally removing him from the school grounds). I know of autistic children who have their hands covered so they don't scratch themselves up for example. Covering the hands is a perfectly acceptable tactile and visual reminder(something that autistic people often need) that the behavior is not acceptable.
I think the only reason for the overreaction is because this involves the child's sexual organs; apparently this puts him on par with a child rapist and he deserves to be tazed and given sandpaper to wack off too because the GROWN UP educators around him don't know how to adequately protect both the normal children from the site of a disabled child's winky or prepare themselves for the inappropriate behaviors of the autistic child.
-
Ok, this is a public school, a normal one.
I see these mothers with autistic children saying it's the responsiblity of the school system to bend over backwards for their children and it's law.
I personally like all of your answers and it's a good thing I know ya'll because I was thinking I was seriously in the Twilight Zone with everyone over there saying the one kid mattered over all the other's.
-
Ok, this is a public school, a normal one.
I see these mothers with autistic children saying it's the responsiblity of the school system to bend over backwards for their children and it's law.
I personally like all of your answers and it's a good thing I know ya'll because I was thinking I was seriously in the Twilight Zone with everyone over there saying the one kid mattered over all the other's.
I hate that sentiment. They use it in all kinds of ways. "If it only saves one ..." Is a load of crap. Entire schools can be affected by one kid having a peanut allergy.
The gun haters would lose the 2 Million PLUS who save themselves through the use of a firearm "if it only saves one child".
On and on it goes and if you disagree they will pounce on you. We ALL want to save kids but the cost must be weighed.
KC
-
Yeah, I was always under the impression that when you decide to have kids that becomes your responsibility not everyone else's. You aren't guaranteed a perfect child in life so you have to roll with the punches and make sure you have your bases covered with a good job and insurance. I thought everyone knew this.
-
Yeah, I was always under the impression that when you decide to have kids that becomes your responsibility not everyone else's. You aren't guaranteed a perfect child in life so you have to roll with the punches and make sure you have your bases covered with a good job and insurance. I thought everyone knew this.
When school districts accept per pupil funding along with special ed funding from tax dollars...they DO have a responsibility to educate ALL children no matter the disability.If they do not want that responsibility...then they need to surrender those per pupil funding dollars to the parents of said disabled child so that that child may get an education at a school equipped to handle said child....Good luck getting a school district to do that though.As we've seen in the news lately they do not like to give up anything.
-
Ok, this is a public school, a normal one.
I see these mothers with autistic children saying it's the responsiblity of the school system to bend over backwards for their children and it's law.
I personally like all of your answers and it's a good thing I know ya'll because I was thinking I was seriously in the Twilight Zone with everyone over there saying the one kid mattered over all the other's.
Well, let's be honest, you really didn't give a lot of background on what really happened. Was the child removed immediately? I think the parents have every right to put this back on a staff who is incompetent in this regard but claims to have expertise. Don't you get that these are not NORMAL teachers in that normal school? You get that right? They usually are paid quite a bit more for that expertise and when they can't provide it you don't see some problem with return on investment in those highly paid specialists?
As for the normal school scenario, my guess is its actually CHEAPER to the taxpayers to house disabled kids in special education areas of the normal school. Running an entire school strictly for disabled children is cost prohibitive for most districts.
I find it interesting that everyone here seems inclined to want to flip flop between treating this child "normal" with ridiculously abusive(not even normal) consequences yet when it suits purposes to argue another angle then they are not normal. So which is it? If these children are held to a different standard in their reading ability, then why would that not also translate to some exceptions on behavior. Nobody said indefinitely, obviously there is behavior that needs addressed, but some here seem shocked that people with deficiencies like this are going to do embarrassing things in public. My son also giggles out loud over nothing at all and likes to make noises in gyms because they echo. Oh he also starts crying terribly when he's in a very loud basketball arena because the noise is horrible for him with how his brain is wired. I'm only offering this so you can understand the deficiencies...the child was likely not malicious in what he did yet the comments here were totally malicious.
What's insane about this conversation is that child will probably never grow up to make the stupid mistakes young adults usually do and it will be that mother having to protect that child from the behavior those then 20 year olds have a CHOICE to display. Something tells me some of the same people here will be excusing perfectly normal 'children' then totally capable of exhibiting self-control over how they behave themselves. My point again being apples and oranges. My thought Gina is if you wanted a more thoughtful discussion on this, perhaps those talking ridiculous malicious consequences should have taken that down a notch. Every mother, especially those dealing with children with profound disabilities, are going to take umbrage to that kind of rhetoric, as well they should when it takes the kind of overtones it did.
-
Yeah, I was always under the impression that when you decide to have kids that becomes your responsibility not everyone else's. You aren't guaranteed a perfect child in life so you have to roll with the punches and make sure you have your bases covered with a good job and insurance. I thought everyone knew this.
Sister, people who have the absolute honor from God above to be entrusted with such a needing individual for a child roll with the punches in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. :lmao:
As for your sentiment, it's just a load of crap anyway. I don't believe for a second everyone on this board has their life planned for every eventuality. That is not humanly possible and the majority of us would be sitting without kids(probably including you I would guess) if that was the case.
As for insurance, I don't know about you, but it's changed in the years since I first had kids. Was I supposed to plan for the stupidity that is in the white house right now too? Should I anticipate every election for the next 40 years I'm alive and every legislation that could come up? I hope you practice what you preach. That's going to a be a lot of comp and overtime. Hopefully your agency with the feds allows that in the age of tightening up bootstraps with the feds :wink: Most we get is credit right now, but I digress..just sharing in some pain there :-)
My ex and I played by all the rules and the shit still hit the fan. I have no shame for asking for help for my son...he will always need it too and unless you all are going to throw him in the casket with us when we kick the bucket, someone's going to have to look out for him financially and otherwise. We have done and continue to do what we can. Of paramount importance to me is that he is safe and cared for. A few griping people stomping their feet don't really matter to me over that. :-)
anyway, you all have a good weekend. My youngest is having a birthday this weekend so between that, work, and then the holiday weekend after I'm not expecting to see this thread again for a good couple of weeks like is my norm anymore. Just a head's up for any replies. Enjoy the, hopefully, nice weather everyone. See ya:-)
-
Sister, people who have the absolute honor from God above to be entrusted with such a needing individual for a child roll with the punches in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. :lmao:
As for your sentiment, it's just a load of crap anyway. I don't believe for a second everyone on this board has their life planned for every eventuality. That is not humanly possible and the majority of us would be sitting without kids(probably including you I would guess) if that was the case.
As for insurance, I don't know about you, but it's changed in the years since I first had kids. Was I supposed to plan for the stupidity that is in the white house right now too? Should I anticipate every election for the next 40 years I'm alive and every legislation that could come up? I hope you practice what you preach. That's going to a be a lot of comp and overtime. Hopefully your agency with the feds allows that in the age of tightening up bootstraps with the feds :wink: Most we get is credit right now, but I digress..just sharing in some pain there :-)
My ex and I played by all the rules and the shit still hit the fan. I have no shame for asking for help for my son...he will always need it too and unless you all are going to throw him in the casket with us when we kick the bucket, someone's going to have to look out for him financially and otherwise. We have done and continue to do what we can. Of paramount importance to me is that he is safe and cared for. A few griping people stomping their feet don't really matter to me over that. :-)
anyway, you all have a good weekend. My youngest is having a birthday this weekend so between that, work, and then the holiday weekend after I'm not expecting to see this thread again for a good couple of weeks like is my norm anymore. Just a head's up for any replies. Enjoy the, hopefully, nice weather everyone. See ya:-)
Of course not ::) to the bolded. Who is stomping their feet btw? A few of us feel that one kid should not be the deciding factor as to how a classroom is run. Are you for the kid being able to whip it out in front of everyone else just because every kid deserves an education?