Author Topic: What would be your opinion?  (Read 3918 times)

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Offline Gina

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What would be your opinion?
« on: May 16, 2011, 08:58:08 PM »
This is a topic on a mother's forum.  I wanted to see how this group would respond to the question.  The majority on the board are furious only about the gloves/tape.  No one thinks the kid should be sent home.  They say it's the schools responsibility to take care of the child whacking off.

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Here's a situation that was presented to me by a friend of mine. She gave me permission to ask around for ideas.

10 year old boy with autism but not an intellectual disability has started masturbating at school, openly and frequently. He has an individual assitant at school, plus the family has hired outside help to assist the school in coming up with a program to try to stop this behavior. The latest problem is that when he's redirected to stop masturbating, he lashes out by pinching the person closest to him.

School calls mom at work and says that he's masturbating and pinching and would she like to come pick him up. Mom says that she's at work and that the school should continue managing his behavior since they're staffed for it, school accepts that answer. School also calls dad at work to let him know that it's a difficult day for the child's behavior but does not ask dad if he can pick up the child.

Boy gets home from school and he has gardening gloves taped to his arms with packing tape. The school sent a note home saying they did that because he would not stop pinching them. Removing the tape is painful and leaves red welts on his arms since he was wearing a tshirt.

Thoughts? What should happen next?






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Offline Texacon

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 09:11:09 PM »
I don't see a problem with it.  It's not permanent damage and something had to be done.

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Offline Thor

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 09:17:28 PM »
That's the problem  with today's society. Schools seem to be little more than babysitters that try to teach kids. In my day, a kid would have gotten their ass busted. If it continued, they would have been expelled. Simple as that. Of course, we didn't have kids with autism, cerebral palsy or mental illnesses attending a public school. ADHD wasn't even heard of back then.
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Offline BattleHymn

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 09:37:35 PM »
Is this boy integrated into regular classrooms?

I remember the first year they started integrating mildly retarded students, and others with mental disorders in my regular elementary classroom. Once, it took 40 minutes to get the retarded student we had in our class to open his book to the right page.  He knew what he was doing, (being disruptive), and used his mental disorder to his advantage. 

I wouldn't have any problem with the means they used to alleviate the situation.  If you send your children to public schools with disruptive problems that other adults will have to deal with, you are leaving the solution to these problems to their discretion, at least for the amount of time they are responsible for your child.     


Offline Vagabond

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 10:27:03 PM »
I don't know.  The kid should have been removed from the classroom to the dean's office until his behavior for the day was brought under control.  I know autistic kids are a real challenge, but he can not be allowed to interfere with the education of his fellow students.
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Offline Evil_Conservative

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 11:03:45 PM »
He should have been removed from class immediately.  It would really bother me if I found out a classmate of Carleigh's was masturbating in class.  Is this a class for only autistic children or is this a regular classroom setting?  The school should have informed mom and dad both that their son would be removed from class and will be waiting in the office for one of them to pick him up.

I didn't go to school with autistic children, at least none that I knew of anyway.  I wouldn't really know how to handle this, but I'm not okay with anyone masturbating in a classroom.  Mental illness or not.  It's just unacceptable.
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Offline seahorse513

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 11:37:06 PM »
It's tough for both teachers and parents to have to deal with children who are mentally or emotionally challenged. They don't want to ship them off to special schools only to be forgotten, yet streamlining them in public schools may be harmful to the child to himself and other children. It's a tough decision all around...

When the other children go home with pinchmarks from this partcular child or makes a comment on how this child is "playing with his weinie in class". That would be alarming to a parent. The teachers are between a rock and a hard place. Trying to teach all the children in her class, yet have to deal with a disruptive child who takes all the attention
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 05:35:35 AM »
When I was a student, our system had one student with profound problems, though I was never told what they were.  All I knew is that she wore huge, thick glasses, hearing aids, and was always loud and disruptive.  She was in a few of the normal classes, but mostly in separate classes with instruction aimed at her alone.  Her main teacher was...her mother.  Yep.  Her mother worked for the school system, and taught Remedial Reading classes for 2 or 3 hours a day, and her own child along with any other "difficult" kids the rest of the day.  I personally don't know how many other kids were in the special class, or if she had assistants, though.  I do know that the normal classes the child attended were PE/Gym, study hall, music, etc., NOT the classes like English, Math or History.
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Offline mamacags

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 06:47:41 AM »
I have no problem with the way they "solved" the issue.  While he may have had welts from the tape I am sure the people he pinched also had visible skin damage.
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 06:57:41 AM »
This is a topic on a mother's forum.  I wanted to see how this group would respond to the question.  The majority on the board are furious only about the gloves/tape.  No one thinks the kid should be sent home.  They say it's the schools responsibility to take care of the child whacking off.

The parents need to get the boy into his pdoc or neurologist to address the stimulating behaviour. Some autistic kids unfortunately can't be mainstreamed.We have "sensory rooms" here for when the autsies start stimming...rooms where there are physical things for them to do to stop or alleviate the destructive stimming!
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Offline CatholicCrusader

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 07:15:16 AM »
.....No one thinks the kid should be sent home......

They are wrong. The school has to think of ALL the kids. You can't subject an entire school of kids to watching a kid masturbate just in order to cater to one kid. That is sensitivity run amok.

Unfortunately, in such situations, there is no perfect solution. But the welfare of all the kids has to be taken into account.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 08:48:23 AM »
Taser the little bastard 'til he stops both behaviors.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 09:00:44 AM »
Taser the little bastard 'til he stops both behaviors.

Spot on.

You know, if a "normal" kid behaved like that, the cops would be called and the kid would at least expelled from school. They want little Johnny treated like any other kid don't they? Well, expell his ass and let mom and dad worry about getting him educated after that.
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 10:14:08 AM »
Taser the little bastard 'til he stops both behaviors.
Well that will never happen obviously :whatever: Corporal punishment does not work with autistic children or people for that matter as they don't process the reason for it like you and i do. Also many autistic people have an extremely high pain threshold and they don't process pain like you or i do either.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2011, 10:24:38 AM »
Tell his parents the next time he whips out his love sausage in class, he'll be handed a sheet of 50 grit sandpaper and told to wear it down to a nub.

Seriously....

The kid needs to be removed from the "normal" population and put somewhere -- like a rubber room -- where the only person watching him whip his love stick is himself.

Forget education. He needs specific training in self-control.
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 10:53:17 AM »
Tell his parents the next time he whips out his love sausage in class, he'll be handed a sheet of 50 grit sandpaper and told to wear it down to a nub.

Seriously....

The kid needs to be removed from the "normal" population and put somewhere -- like a rubber room -- where the only person watching him whip his love stick is himself.

Forget education. He needs specific training in self-control.
A good definiton to explain the above Euph!"Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior.Autism affects information processing in the brain by altering how nerve cells and their synapses connect and organize; how this occurs is not well understood"
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »
Well that will never happen obviously :whatever: Corporal punishment does not work with autistic children or people for that matter as they don't process the reason for it like you and i do. Also many autistic people have an extremely high pain threshold and they don't process pain like you or i do either.

Someone having a label is no reason to throw up your hands on dealing with them, either.  If the kid can't be convinced or behaviorally conditioned to stop it, he just flat isn't close enough to the norm to be in with the regular students.
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 12:03:54 PM »
Someone having a label is no reason to throw up your hands on dealing with them, either.  If the kid can't be convinced or behaviorally conditioned to stop it, he just flat isn't close enough to the norm to be in with the regular students.

To be fair toasted's response was addressing your extreme solution to dealing with the 'little bastard'. Perhaps the district should willingly seperate itself from the ample funds attached for the schooling of that child so he can b more adequately placed. I have some experience with a stellar district as well as autism and will comment more whem i'm home from my drs office and can use an actual keyboard instead of the phone.

Offline Intelligento

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2011, 12:09:10 PM »
I have no problem with how this was handled.  i don't think it was ever answered what type of school/other students were involved.  But once again thought they did the right thing.

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 12:13:27 PM »
I have no problem with how this was handled.

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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2011, 12:31:07 PM »
Someone having a label is no reason to throw up your hands on dealing with them, either.  If the kid can't be convinced or behaviorally conditioned to stop it, he just flat isn't close enough to the norm to be in with the regular students.
It's not a label Tanker...Autism actually exists and what i told you is in fact..fact! I work with Autistic kids everyday. I see how they are handled by the Spc-ed teachers and the principal. I never said throw up your hands and give up did I? They do need to be removed from the presence of other children when they are doing or saying innapropriate things and they are. Sounds like the school in question was not equipped to handle Autism/PDD.
Here they have two classrooms devoted to about 24 autsies of varying severity on the PDD scale, when they start to stim they are separated from the other kids so as not to infringe on their learning.
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Offline Evil_Conservative

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2011, 12:39:44 PM »
Spot on.

You know, if a "normal" kid behaved like that, the cops would be called and the kid would at least expelled from school. They want little Johnny treated like any other kid don't they? Well, expell his ass and let mom and dad worry about getting him educated after that.

The daycare my daughter attends kicks children out after too many incidents.  Our daughter is in the 1-2 year old room, so they only have problems with biters.  I believe after three biting incidents, the director makes the decision to either "suspend" the child or kick them out completely.

Is it so much to ask to have a public school do the same?
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2011, 12:39:51 PM »
To be fair toasted's response was addressing your extreme solution to dealing with the 'little bastard'. Perhaps the district should willingly seperate itself from the ample funds attached for the schooling of that child so he can b more adequately placed. I have some experience with a stellar district as well as autism and will comment more whem i'm home from my drs office and can use an actual keyboard instead of the phone.

Actually what I described is just an extreme and illegal example of behavioral conditioning, and the response was much broader than than you apparently took it, but was about autism generally.  However, in the context of my smartassed answer, that response would mean even the most extreme conditioning would be fruitless to reprogram someone afflicted with autism, though of course we don't really have any information on the severity of it in this case except for the negative behaviors.  If this can't be curbed by (Legal) conditioning or persuasion, leaving this kid in class is totall unacceptable since it is sexual abuse of the other kids, and therefore also willful child endangerment of the rest of the kids by his parents and the school administration.  I can't believe anyone is okay with exposing other kids to that, but apparently the autism advocates are out in force today.
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2011, 01:02:29 PM »
Actually what I described is just an extreme and illegal example of behavioral conditioning, and the response was much broader than than you apparently took it, but was about autism generally.  However, in the context of my smartassed answer, that response would mean even the most extreme conditioning would be fruitless to reprogram someone afflicted with autism, though of course we don't really have any information on the severity of it in this case except for the negative behaviors.  If this can't be curbed by (Legal) conditioning or persuasion, leaving this kid in class is totall unacceptable since it is sexual abuse of the other kids, and therefore also willful child endangerment of the rest of the kids by his parents and the school administration.  I can't believe anyone is okay with exposing other kids to that, but apparently the autism advocates are out in force today.
Nope just a rational,reasonable guy who doesn't feel the need to "tase" a handicapped child when said child does something innapropriate.See? I can make  black and white assumptions too Tanker! :-)
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: What would be your opinion?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2011, 04:01:02 PM »
Actually what I described is just an extreme and illegal example of behavioral conditioning, and the response was much broader than than you apparently took it, but was about autism generally.  However, in the context of my smartassed answer, that response would mean even the most extreme conditioning would be fruitless to reprogram someone afflicted with autism, though of course we don't really have any information on the severity of it in this case except for the negative behaviors.  If this can't be curbed by (Legal) conditioning or persuasion, leaving this kid in class is totall unacceptable since it is sexual abuse of the other kids, and therefore also willful child endangerment of the rest of the kids by his parents and the school administration.  I can't believe anyone is okay with exposing other kids to that, but apparently the autism advocates are out in force today.

Actually sir, behavioral therapies are one of the primary component of developing appropriate behaviors in autistic individuals, however those associated with violence are not successful because of the inadequate ability to associate a context for the punishment---btw, the same lack of context also applies to disagreeable stimulation as well...their context is about the same as the one a 2 year old has when they start pulling on the wee-wee too...it doesn't have the sexual overtones that some here would seem to like to prescribe to it. That's probably the biggest differentiation. I don't see discussion from what was said either that this has been a long term problem and that behavioral therapies have yet been implemented...sounds like the team just gave up because they were in shock. That too is not an appropriate response. So an autistic kid cursed, touched his private, or yelled in the hallway--these people are trained and paid big taxpayer bucks I might add to know how to address those situations. If the child had not been removed after a pattern of behavior then that is the ADULTS fault, not the child's and much of what I saw in response was aimed at the disabled child for Pete's sake, including yours. 

However, that said, the behavior indeed does need to be addressed and behavioral therapies employed to redirect the inappropriate stimulation(and for those not aware, stimulation in an autistic context is not the sexual variety--stimulation could mean flapping hands, jumping up and down, banging a head on a wall, repetative behaviors of any kind).

For the record, you have retreated on a totally unambiguous comment calling it now smart-assed and wanting to give context to it after the fact. I'm sorry, sir, but I don't pretend to read your intent, I merely addressed what I read right before me in black and white and that's it. I didn't have the benefit of your context since you didn't provide it at that time. That is your fault, not mine. That said, it is you have decided to assign some intent and unsaid meaning to those who are trying to explain issues associated with autism or positive suggestions to deal with this situation. Even though you were given plenty of context from those individuals you have decided to snidely call them 'advocates of exposing children to inappropriate things' and never once didany of those 'advocates of inappropriate things' say this was appropriate behavior so lets put away the false platitudes shall we.

As I said, this school MAY not be equipped to deal with a child with issues like this. Like all conservatives, you should be advocating for the $$ for his education to follow him and perhaps this child can be placed in a learning situation more appropriate for his issues. A good conservative probably would give more fault with the grown ups trained and paid to care for and teach this child, including the parents, not the child himself. Furthermore, and with that said, how they handled it was perfectly acceptable INCLUDING REMOVING HIM FROM THE GENERAL POPULATION PRESENTLY(and no, that doesn't necessarily mean totally removing him from the school grounds). I know of autistic children who have their hands covered so they don't scratch themselves up for example. Covering the hands is a perfectly acceptable tactile and visual reminder(something that autistic people often need) that the behavior is not acceptable.
 

I think the only reason for the overreaction is because this involves the child's sexual organs; apparently this puts him on par with a child rapist and he deserves to be tazed and given sandpaper to wack off too because the GROWN UP educators around him don't know how to adequately protect both the normal children from the site of a disabled child's winky or prepare themselves for the inappropriate behaviors of the autistic child.