The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: cavegal on October 07, 2010, 12:53:41 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/06/wendy-murphy-mexico-texas-tiffany-hartley-pirates-lake-jet-ski-shot-head-god/
Twenty-nine year-old Tiffany Hartley says her husband was shot in the head by Mexican pirates earlier this week while the couple was riding jet skis on Falcon Lake at the Texas-Mexico border.
Claiming her husband fell face fi
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/06/wendy-murphy-mexico-texas-tiffany-hartley-pirates-lake-jet-ski-shot-head-god/
If she is lying she should be shot. We have enough troubles trying to get our borders safe without that kind of crap.
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I have a problem with this too, guess it's they shot the husband and not her, a witness? Her 9-11 call seemed very rehearsed, too calm after witnessing her husband murdered??? Then goes on national t.v.......
So, it was:
~a drug deal gone bad (nobody goes that far across the border except for the good stuff)
~an insurance scam (well, until a body or jet ski is found), he's really fine and waiting for her and the cash out of the country somewhere
~she had him "offed" (insurance, lover)
~she shot him (again, insurance? a lover?)
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/06/wendy-murphy-mexico-texas-tiffany-hartley-pirates-lake-jet-ski-shot-head-god/
Thank You Cavegal, I have put you on my Christmass card list.
Everytime the wife opens her mouth to the media I get warning bells, as I was very surprised to watch her and her mother on Fox this am and I was watching her body language as I do watch Court TV and they bring in the body language experts to give their openion on the truthfullness of those testifying.
As far as I could tell she remained quite expressionless until she stated that the men in the boat got to with in 10 feet of her pointing guns at her. Then she stated she could not describe the boat or the occupants as she only saw the barrel of the gun that may have killed her husband.
Her expression then turned to roll her eyes up ward to her right, very clear as she did this slowly and it was not just a glance at her mother.
I would expect most every police officer in the country is watching this closely, the cops are trained in body language and are not stupid. They can tell when they are being lied to in a heart beat, tone of voice mannerisms and body language.
I will have to go back in her statements because I have a feeling that she may have mentioned she and husband were thinking of moving south to open a business.
Cavegal we have this happen up here, people take their boats out to fish, lobster or just for a day to be alone with the themselves. When their boats are found, the keys are in the ignition the drivers wallet money and credit cards in plain sight, only thing missing is the driver themselves..
Coast guard searches for 3 days and down the line have to give up.
15-20 years later someone on vacation runs into the man and his family somewhere out of the country or on the far side of the country, they are doing quite well as the family received double indemnity for his so called death.
For us in this area who have lived in the sea ports for generations, we were raised on the tales of our ancestors that in most cases were a Scurvy Lott. Some of our forfathers would cut a throat for a nickle or a dime. They ran rum, slaves and anything they could make a living on.
Today it is drugs that fill the pockets of people with money. Those that live on the river or in small towns have Marine radios that we listen to as when a tanker is anchored off shore waiting for the coast guard to inspect them we just sit back as the Jet boats and everything from commercial fishing boats to row boats get a yen to meet up with the ship at night. Not to say that they are bringing in drugs under the nose of the coast guard but it makes one wonder.
This was a lake the couple were on, no tide to ebb and flow, The direction of the wind at that time would be a deciding factor of where the body and the Jet were blown or drifted to.
I question this as I have lived on both Fresh water lakes and the rivers and sea all my life.
Then there is the fact that the men in a boat had caught her let her go riding an 6-8 thousand dollar jet ski, We paid 12,000 bucks for our two jet ski's 10 years ago but that included the tandem trailer.
To give the wife the benefit of a doubt, she and husband were riding their jet ski's and they over the sound of the engines heard gun shots,??? They speeded up to get the heck out of there when the husband was shot in the head and landed in the water with the jet ski circling him.
The wife stops and jumps off her ski to try to drag him back onto her Jet but he is to heavy to hoist up. Next thing she remembers is bullets smacking the water around her, remember her Jet is also 10-15 feet from her. She leaves her husband in the water, swims and climbs aboard her ski only to find that 10 feet from her a boat full of armed men have snuck up on her. With both jets engines tempered down she does not hear the engine of the boat chasing her getting closer.So she just looks at the barrel of a gun one is holding, ignores their boat or the people inside.
She does not know if these are the killers or the police, has no idea if they are to help or harm her.
They just sit there in their boat rocking back and forth and she hears God telling her to get the Hell out of there.
First she recalls them killing her husband, then trying to kill her and then they 10 feet from her, lets her go on a Jet ski that that is very expensive and a perfect boat to run drugs.
That sheriff that believes her story, funny thing about that, he needs the story to be true to push for more federal money to combat the drug lords. The more horror storeys he can relate the better his chances of getting money, power, to protect his area.
Much involved here, this woman can cause us much problems if a smart lawyer trips us up, or if not finally get Obama off his Presidential Throne, the one with the flush valve to do something to protect us.
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Did they find his jet ski?
He was wearing a life jacket. But they've found no body.
The witness said a boat of men was following closely behind her,
when Hartley asked him for help.
Who were the men in the boat? Why were they following her?
A lot doesn't add up -- most of all the fact that there is no body.
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Eyewitness in Alleged Mexican Pirate Attack Case Comes Forward
http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-tiffany-hartley-joins-search-husband-allegedly-killed/story?id=11820806
An eyewitness has come forward in the case of the American who was allegedly attacked by Mexican pirates to claim he saw the man's panicked wife as she fled to the American side of the lake.
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Eyewitness in Alleged Mexican Pirate Attack Case Comes Forward
http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-tiffany-hartley-joins-search-husband-allegedly-killed/story?id=11820806
Gotta wonder if the witness is :mental:
Really, as an avid consumer of true crime literature, this woman's story reeks to high heaven. It sounds like :bs:
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Gotta wonder if the witness is :mental:
Really, as an avid consumer of true crime literature, this woman's story reeks to high heaven. It sounds like :bs:
Maybe the guy is her lover/boyfriend? It sure sounds fishy to me also. The BS meter goes off.
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The spouse is always the first suspect in my mind (and usually in the detectives minds), but I am reserving judgment on this until I hear more. It is weird, but stranger things have happened. We'll see. I hope they find his body though. For his family's sake and his.
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She's lying.
If there was a "hail" of gun fire, she would have been hit. How many supposed shooters were there again? They would have hit her as well.
Who in their right mind even wants to go on television shows after their loved one gets murdered? Definitely an egotistical person.
Here is her Facebook. For a grieving wife, she sure is accepting a lot of new friends.
Tiffany Hartley Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Tiffany+Hartley&o=2048&init=ffs&s=10#!/profile.php?id=643032226&v=wall)
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I have a problem with this too, guess it's they shot the husband and not her, a witness? Her 9-11 call seemed very rehearsed, too calm after witnessing her husband murdered??? Then goes on national t.v.......
So, it was:
~a drug deal gone bad (nobody goes that far across the border except for the good stuff)
~an insurance scam (well, until a body or jet ski is found), he's really fine and waiting for her and the cash out of the country somewhere
~she had him "offed" (insurance, lover)
~she shot him (again, insurance? a lover?)
Sounds like an insurance scam to me. Also, could involve adultery. That is what I would suspect. I am surprised there are Mexican pirates. They need to find David Hartley first.
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It's not that easy to shoot at a moving target let alone one on water. If you haven't trained in doing it your hit probablity is close to zero. The one head shot might have been a luck hit. Till the body is recovered we can't say for certain whats happen and have to wait and see.
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Investigators have found blood matching her husband's on her life jacket. Which supports her claim that she tried to pull his body onot her jetski.
Or so I heard on the news this morning.........
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Who knows? Maybe it did happen the way she says.
However, I seem to remember an observation about a Susan Smith, in NC, about 17 years ago. She's the one who said that she had been carjacked with her two young boys strapped into their car seats, then it was revealled that there was a lover who wanted nothing to do with a woman with kids, so she killed the kids. A lot of people noticed that, even though Smith was crying, there were no tears. This Hartley girl (related to Nina Hartley, perhaps?) doesn't seen to be shedding tears, either, though she's crying. That could be from a variety of things, but erhe's no tracks of those tears, either . . .
Something doesn't add up.
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Who knows? Maybe it did happen the way she says.
However, I seem to remember an observation about a Susan Smith, in NC, about 17 years ago. She's the one who said that she had been carjacked with her two young boys strapped into their car seats, then it was revealled that there was a lover who wanted nothing to do with a woman with kids, so she killed the kids. A lot of people noticed that, even though Smith was crying, there were no tears. This Hartley girl (related to Nina Hartley, perhaps?) doesn't seen to be shedding tears, either, though she's crying. That could be from a variety of things, but erhe's no tracks of those tears, either . . .
Something doesn't add up.
That happened over in Union county S.C.....NC has had their share of mean women without being held responsible for ours.
My dady always told me, "There's nothing better than a good woman.....and nothing worse than a bad one."
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She's lying.
If there was a "hail" of gun fire, she would have been hit. How many supposed shooters were there again? They would have hit her as well.
Who in their right mind even wants to go on television shows after their loved one gets murdered? Definitely an egotistical person.
Here is her Facebook. For a grieving wife, she sure is accepting a lot of new friends.
Tiffany Hartley Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Tiffany+Hartley&o=2048&init=ffs&s=10#!/profile.php?id=643032226&v=wall)
She lists her current city as Reynosa, Mexico ?
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That happened over in Union county S.C.....NC has had their share of mean women without being held responsible for ours.
My dady always told me, "There's nothing better than a good woman.....and nothing worse than a bad one."
:thatsright:
My bad. But, you know the rest of the story.
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Mexicans and water don't mix, hence the oxymoron "Mexican Pirates".
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She lists her current city as Reynosa, Mexico ?
Reynosa is right on the Tex/Mex border.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/08/earlyshow/main6938718.shtml
(CBS) Zapata County's sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez has told CBS News he has blood evidence from the lifevest of Tiffany Hartley, the wife of David Hartley, that supports her account
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/08/earlyshow/main6938718.shtml
She could have gotten blood on her by dragging the body into a hidden location as well. All is a possibility. I'd like to believe she didn't kill her husband, but there are a lot of crazy people out there.
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I don't believe she killed him. He was big. She's small. If she did kill him, she'd need help hiding the body,
or else the body would likely have been found by now. He was wearing a life vest.
There is nothing I've heard to indicate she had help. His body, life vest & his jet ski are apparently missing.
Right now - I believe her.
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And on many types of life vests, if the kapok is punctured (if that's the type he was wearing), they'll fill with water and quite literally become heavy as bricks.
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I don't believe she killed him. He was big. She's small. If she did kill him, she'd need help hiding the body,
or else the body would likely have been found by now. He was wearing a life vest.
There is nothing I've heard to indicate she had help. His body, life vest & his jet ski are apparently missing.
Right now - I believe her.
Don't let the size of this woman underestimate her strength.
Something doesn't seem right. I'll wait for more evidence. But right now, I'm sticking with murder on her part, not the "pirates".
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She could have gotten blood on her by dragging the body into a hidden location as well. All is a possibility. I'd like to believe she didn't kill her husband, but there are a lot of crazy people out there.
The sheriff may be referring to spray patterns. They can tell angle and distance based on the splatter. An oblique angle at a distance of a few yards will spray different from a straight shot just beyond arm's length and a bullet passing pulls droplets behind it differently than a bullet traveling away from the shooter, creating a back-splash.
If the wife shot her husband while wearing that vest the sheriff would have a reasonable amount of evidence to suspect her.
If she was dragging a body--pretty hard to imagine a woman dragging someone as big as the victim WHILE wearing a cumbersome life vest--the blood evidence would definitely betray her.
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What happened to the jet ski?
It's kind of hard to imagine the "pirates" were able to steal it while they were in a boat. How much do those weigh? I'd imagine it's pretty heavy and you would be unable to lift one up and put it into your boat.
Things just are not adding up.
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What happened to the jet ski?
It's kind of hard to imagine the "pirates" were able to steal it while they were in a boat. How much do those weigh? I'd imagine it's pretty heavy and you would be unable to lift one up and put it into your boat.
Things just are not adding up.
Maybe they rode/towed it back?
As improbable as certain aspects of the pirate story may sound there is strong evidence, i.e. blood patterns and witnesses, ruling-out the possibility of the wife killing her husband.
If not the wife or pirates, then who?
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Maybe they rode/towed it back?
As improbable as certain aspects of the pirate story may sound there is strong evidence, i.e. blood patterns and witnesses, ruling-out the possibility of the wife killing her husband.
If not the wife or pirates, then who?
Good points.
Who else? Not sure. Probably not a lover of the wife. I just do not see that in this situation.
But then again, I didn't see that in the Lacie Patterson (Peterson?) case.
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If there were pirates, they would steal the jet ski. One would ride it off.
But why not steal 2? Pirates steal stuff. But they don't necessarily kill people.
Pirates could have simply robbed them of their jet skis at gun point.
Still, my theory is she's telling the truth.
OK - even if she disposed of the body. Where's his jet ski?
If she killed him, either it's out there or she would have had to scuttle it somehow.
The one thing that baffles me is how did she get away?
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If there were pirates, they would steal the jet ski. One would ride it off.
But why not steal 2? Pirates steal stuff. But they don't necessarily kill people.
Pirates could have simply robbed them of their jet skis at gun point.
Still, my theory is she's telling the truth.
OK - even if she disposed of the body. Where's his jet ski?
If she killed him, either it's out there or she would have had to scuttle it somehow.
The one thing that baffles me is how did she get away?
The pirates wouldn't be able to ride away on the jet ski. The key pops out if you fall off of it. Not sure if that holds true today, but it did when I rode on one years back.
I really need to read all of the news stories on this... from all different perspectives.
I did that during the whole Caylee Anthony murder. It was a headache, but the things I learned from that case were astonishing.
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The pirates wouldn't be able to ride away on the jet ski. The key pops out if you fall off of it. Not sure if that holds true today, but it did when I rode on one years back.
I really need to read all of the news stories on this... from all different perspectives.
I did that during the whole Caylee Anthony murder. It was a headache, but the things I learned from that case were astonishing.
Speaking of Caylee.......what's up with that trial? I didn't miss it??? Why I hone in on Nancy Grace and Greta, the only ones I trust on Domestic Issues.
My personal jury is still out on the Jet Ski Wife....I'm still not convinced she's an innocent little butterfly :p
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Speaking of Caylee.......what's up with that trial? I didn't miss it??? Why I hone in on Nancy Grace and Greta, the only ones I trust on Domestic Issues.
My personal jury is still out on the Jet Ski Wife....I'm still not convinced she's an innocent little butterfly :p
The trail didn't even start yet. I believe it was scheduled to start soon... but Casey Anthony got a new lawyer a few weeks ago. I'm sure that right there sets the trail date back so the new lawyer can get his/her "evidence" and arguments together.
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Speaking of Caylee.......what's up with that trial? I didn't miss it??? Why I hone in on Nancy Grace and Greta, the only ones I trust on Domestic Issues.
My personal jury is still out on the Jet Ski Wife....I'm still not convinced she's an innocent little butterfly :p
Casey Anthony's trial is scheduled for May 2011. It may change.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/anthony_case/092710-anthony-status-hearing
I remember the Susan Smith case and I knew from the start, she was the one who killed her own children, Michael and Alexander, in 1994.
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(decided to update this thread than start a new one) Suspended search on Hartley's body.....
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/15/texas.missing.american/index.html
A snippet....
......A report issued by a Texas-based think tank suggested Thursday that Hartley's death may have stemmed from a case of mistaken identity in the ongoing war between two Mexican drug cartels.
The Stratfor report, which cites anonymous sources, noted that Hartley worked for an oil and gas company with operations in Reynosa, Mexico, and the couple had lived there for two years and had only moved to McAllen, Texas, within the past few months.
The truck they drove to Falcon Lake on September 30 still had a license plate from Mexico's Tamaulipas state.
The couple drove their personal watercraft to the Old Guerrero area of the lake, which the report said is a "known battleground in the ongoing war in the Los Zetas and Gulf cartels."
The comments are interesting, if these bad guys are so vicious why did they let the wife go......?
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She's lying.
If there was a "hail" of gun fire, she would have been hit. Tiffany Hartley Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Tiffany+Hartley&o=2048&init=ffs&s=10#!/profile.php?id=643032226&v=wall)
{snicker} Apparently, you've never been in a firefight.
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(decided to update this thread than start a new one) Suspended search on Hartley's body.....
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/15/texas.missing.american/index.html
A snippet....
The comments are interesting, if these bad guys are so vicious why did they let the wife go......?
They missed, they were also prolly a little upset when they realised their mistake, which supposedly cost thjem their lives.
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They missed, they were also prolly a little upset when they realised their mistake, which supposedly cost thjem their lives.
What ever happend, the publicity of this case is a gold mine for the anti-drug and inforcement officers in that area.
Even if they found photos of the wife with a gun in her hand I believe they would come up missing.
Give it a few months and you may find that the wife becomes the poster girl for sending in more men to guard the border.
This will become a stepping stone for those that cry out to the public that they need federal help.
The question on why home grown militias are not out there defending their property and citizens is a no brainer.
Our Americans even the worse of the worse can in no way become as violent as the Drug Cartels. The Cartels will without thought mow down men, woman and infants at the breast. ----Hard to imagine Americans, farmers and ranchers headed out to kill children or woman.
The only one that wins in a fight with a grizzly bear is another grizzly bear.
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What ever happend, the publicity of this case is a gold mine for the anti-drug and inforcement officers in that area.
Even if they found photos of the wife with a gun in her hand I believe they would come up missing.
Give it a few months and you may find that the wife becomes the poster girl for sending in more men to guard the border.
This will become a stepping stone for those that cry out to the public that they need federal help.
The question on why home grown militias are not out there defending their property and citizens is a no brainer.
Our Americans even the worse of the worse can in no way become as violent as the Drug Cartels. The Cartels will without thought mow down men, woman and infants at the breast. ----Hard to imagine Americans, farmers and ranchers headed out to kill children or woman.
The only one that wins in a fight with a grizzly bear is another grizzly bear.
If this happened to my husband, I'd be up the ass of the government, instead of on national TV right away. I would make the government look so bad. Worse than they already do.
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If this happened to my husband, I'd be up the ass of the government, instead of on national TV right away. I would make the government look so bad. Worse than they already do.
Nope, if this happend to my Hubby the first thing I would demand is a lie detector test.
Next thing would be to be placed under hypnosis to remember the things that I had blanked out of my mind.
She may remember just looking at a gun barrel but in her subconscious she saw the people, their faces, clothing and perhaps what was written on the side of the craft the men were on.
When we have a sudden life altering problem, an accident or a home invasion, we tend to get tunnel vision. We have 5 senses that are at work here, touch, smell, hearing, sight and taste.
For the wife her sight took over and may have been fighting with her other senses to shut down all of them.
The true story is all there some where in her mind, like a bunch of files that get lost on the PC. Like when we defragment our PC to pull everything together again.
I myself do not trust eye wittiness accounts, so much depends on memory that changes over time or by suggestion or even where one is standing at the time an event occurs.
Evil, I would be searching for the truth of a matter and never rely on my own memory's of an event. What I think happend could be much different from what happening especially when under stress.
All is stored in the mind and can be brought back by Doctors trained in retrieving lost or missing memory's.
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If the wife is lying, then did she also behead the investigator looking into it?
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Nope, if this happend to my Hubby the first thing I would demand is a lie detector test.
So the first thing you would think of after your husband was brutally murdered is a lie detector test?
I don't think so.
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So the first thing you would think of after your husband was brutally murdered is a lie detector test?
I don't think so.
Gawd, NO, of course not. Most of us would be screaming or catatonic messes. :bawl:
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So the first thing you would think of after your husband was brutally murdered is a lie detector test?
I don't think so.
A lie detector test would not be something I would think of first....however, if investigators would do one right away to eliminate a spouse from suspician...the bad guys might get caught sooner, or the spouse would be in custody sooner, and a lot of time and money would not be wasted on looking in the wrong direction.
Not just in this particular case, but any situation involving a spousal death when it can not be proved immediately.
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The person who said "maybe you've never been in a fire fight" hit the nail. Was in more than one and after several hundred rounds were fired someone was wounded. Likely the shot that hit him was a random lucky. Not everyone is Rambo; actually not anyone.
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Its very hard to hit anything while moving on water if you haven't trained to do it . There are videos on YouTube that show what you need to do when firing from a ship or boat to hit a target on the water. It would be in admissable as evidence in any court in the US to use a lie detector test . Its not that hard to fool one as it is.
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If it was drug cartelers, wouldn't they kill both Tiffany and David Hartley, not leave one to escape. I know drug cartelers are very violent and will kill anyone who gets in their way. They do not like anyone who survives.
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If it was drug cartelers, wouldn't they kill both Tiffany and David Hartley, not leave one to escape. I know drug cartelers are very violent and will kill anyone who gets in their way. They do not like anyone who survives.
They might want to, but haven't found her?