The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ballygrl on May 28, 2010, 07:43:03 PM
-
I hope this is in the right forum, it's not a call-out thread, I just wanted to ask soleil some questions about her views because she comes across as honest to me and I'm curious about her views on some issues and those of her fellow Democrats, because I find some Democrats unwilling to criticize Obama or their party. I freely admit that I protected Bush at times except when it came to his spending, I did criticize him publicly about that and a few other issues. So since you're the only Democrat I've seen here so far I just wanted your perspective on some issues. I swear, I'm not going to jump on you if I disagree.
OK, I just wanted to know if you're happy so far with Obama? if not which Democrat would you like to of seen become the nominee in 2008?
According to polls about 19% of the population see themselves as progressives, not sure if you see yourself that way, if not then how do mainstream Democrats feel as though they have a voice within their party? I'm curious about how they feel because I come from bi-political parents LOL, my Mother was a Democrat and my Father was a Republican, I always took after my Father politically, my Mother stumped for Stevenson, JFK, Johnson, RFK, McGovern, Carter etc. she despised Nixon at the time, but she felt that things changed for her during the 1980's, she's a very Religious woman and she felt the Democratic party was driving people like her out, about 6 years ago she changed her party to Republican, something she never thought she would do. So I'm just curious how regular Democrats feel about the progressives in their party, and why they don't speak up if they do disagree with them.
I think that's it for my questions now.
-
I actually prefer a more moderate democrat for president because I feel more things will get accomplished. The same goes for a republican president. I think most people are somewhat in the middle of many issues. For the most part, I am a "middle of the road" gal. Where I am not middle of the road is gay rights. I know that makes me extremely unpopular here, and many question how I can be a Christian and feel that way. Laugh all y'all want to, but Bill Clinton was who I would consider a "moderate democrat". He obviously can't be pres again, nor do I want him to. There are limits for very good reasons. I also like it to be switched up from time to time. Although I would never vote republican, I feel that having both sides represented keeps our country balanced. Extreme right and left people don't like that, but most people are not extreme.
No, I haven't been pleased with Obama. I don't think he is terrible though. I also don't think he will have a second term. That is just my prediction. Unless something major happens in his favor, I really think he will be a one term president.
I am also beyond ready to get this war wrapped up in Iraq. I would have much rather focused on Afghanistan, Iran, and North Korea over Iraq. That doesn't mean I approve of anything Saddam ever did. I certainly don't. I think he was a horrible horrible man. I wish we would have focused our troops in other places instead of sending them to Iraq. North Korea will need to be dealt with at some point in time. I don't want to go to war with them, but sanctions don't really do the trick, and I think they pose a greater threat than Iraq ever did.
Now, I know I will get lambasted here for stating these beliefs. I would love to discuss this as long as it is kept civil, and doesn't turn into me being an evil person who should FOAD.
-
I actually prefer a more moderate democrat for president because I feel more things will get accomplished. The same goes for a republican president. I think most people are somewhat in the middle of many issues. For the most part, I am a "middle of the road" gal. Where I am not middle of the road is gay rights. I know that makes me extremely unpopular here, and many question how I can be a Christian and feel that way. Laugh all y'all want to, but Bill Clinton was who I would consider a "moderate democrat". He obviously can't be pres again, nor do I want him to. There are limits for very good reasons. I also like it to be switched up from time to time. Although I would never vote republican, I feel that having both sides represented keeps our country balanced. Extreme right and left people don't like that, but most people are not extreme.
No, I haven't been pleased with Obama. I don't think he is terrible though. I also don't think he will have a second term. That is just my prediction. Unless something major happens in his favor, I really think he will be a one term president.
I am also beyond ready to get this war wrapped up in Iraq. I would have much rather focused on Afghanistan, Iran, and North Korea over Iraq. That doesn't mean I approve of anything Saddam ever did. I certainly don't. I think he was a horrible horrible man. I wish we would have focused our troops in other places instead of sending them to Iraq. North Korea will need to be dealt with at some point in time. I don't want to go to war with them, but sanctions don't really do the trick, and I think they pose a greater threat than Iraq ever did.
Now, I know I will get lambasted here for stating these beliefs. I would love to discuss this as long as it is kept civil, and doesn't turn into me being an evil person who should FOAD.
Actually I could give a damn about Gay rights Soleil, I for one will not lambaste you, even if you make me uncomfortable by pointing out both sides of a problem.
You present your side in a reasonable and non reactionary fashion. Matter of fact you make us think---good going.
-
I actually prefer a more moderate democrat for president because I feel more things will get accomplished. The same goes for a republican president. I think most people are somewhat in the middle of many issues. For the most part, I am a "middle of the road" gal. Where I am not middle of the road is gay rights. I know that makes me extremely unpopular here, and many question how I can be a Christian and feel that way. Laugh all y'all want to, but Bill Clinton was who I would consider a "moderate democrat". He obviously can't be pres again, nor do I want him to. There are limits for very good reasons. I also like it to be switched up from time to time. Although I would never vote republican, I feel that having both sides represented keeps our country balanced. Extreme right and left people don't like that, but most people are not extreme.
No, I haven't been pleased with Obama. I don't think he is terrible though. I also don't think he will have a second term. That is just my prediction. Unless something major happens in his favor, I really think he will be a one term president.
I am also beyond ready to get this war wrapped up in Iraq. I would have much rather focused on Afghanistan, Iran, and North Korea over Iraq. That doesn't mean I approve of anything Saddam ever did. I certainly don't. I think he was a horrible horrible man. I wish we would have focused our troops in other places instead of sending them to Iraq. North Korea will need to be dealt with at some point in time. I don't want to go to war with them, but sanctions don't really do the trick, and I think they pose a greater threat than Iraq ever did.
Now, I know I will get lambasted here for stating these beliefs. I would love to discuss this as long as it is kept civil, and doesn't turn into me being an evil person who should FOAD.
I hope it stays civil too LOL because that was my intent starting thread.
As far as things you said, I think most Republicans/Conservatives don't really care if someone is gay or not, I think the line gets drawn at the issue of marriage. On this issue I have no problem with civil unions to protect gay couples, my childhood friend is "married" his words not mine to a man, I prefer the term partner, but I think that's what ticks me off about progressives when it comes to this issue, if you're against the term marriage you're homophobic, and I just feel that's wrong, my friend doesn't consider me homophobic yet a large segment of the left does.
As far as Religion goes, I'm pretty private about that, I don't force my beliefs on others, and I have to say most conservatives don't either. I think Bill Clinton was a moderate too but I think we might differ in the fact that he had no choice but to become a moderate especially after the Republicans took control during his Presidency, though I'm sure he did have some moderate positions, but I think he was mostly a liberal until he had no choice but to conform.
A lot of people prefer divided Governments, I can understand that because of what we've seen. Republicans should've stood up to Bush more when it came to issues such as education, spending, but they didn't and they paid the price. Seems like the same thing is happening now with Obama, although I think Obama will always get a pass because he's black, which is wrong, how are we ever going to get past race and judge someone fairly? Republicans are even playing the game and holding back on criticism.
For the Presidency I could never vote Democrat, so we're similar in how we feel when it comes to the Presidency, just different on how we'd vote, I also couldn't vote for a Democrat for Congress or Senate, and even locally I can't see myself crossing over, I just feel a lot of bitterness on how Bush was treated.
As far as Obama goes? not sure if he would even have the desire to run, or if there's a chance he'll lose will the party force him out? but if the Republicans don't run a good candidate? then he could get in again.
I go back and forth on Iraq, I do believe though there were WMD's there and they were either buried or moved to Syria (per Israeli intelligence) and after 9/11 I think Bush said we have to nip this crap in the bud, so he went in. It just seems as though under Clinton the US buried it's head in the sand when it came to terrorism, and Bush was stuck cleaning it up.
I do appreciate your answering the questions.
-
Actually I could give a damn about Gay rights Soleil, I for one will not lambaste you, even if you make me uncomfortable by pointing out both sides of a problem.
You present your side in a reasonable and non reactionary fashion. Matter of fact you make us think---good going.
That's how I think most Conservatives feel about people being gay, they really don't care.
-
Gays have rights.
They can vote.
They can buy a home.
They can ride anywhere on the bus they want to.
etc... etc... etc...
Nuff said.
-
I hope it stays civil too LOL because that was my intent starting thread.
As far as things you said, I think most Republicans/Conservatives don't really care if someone is gay or not, I think the line gets drawn at the issue of marriage. On this issue I have no problem with civil unions to protect gay couples, my childhood friend is "married" his words not mine to a man, I prefer the term partner, but I think that's what ticks me off about progressives when it comes to this issue, if you're against the term marriage you're homophobic, and I just feel that's wrong, my friend doesn't consider me homophobic yet a large segment of the left does.
As far as Religion goes, I'm pretty private about that, I don't force my beliefs on others, and I have to say most conservatives don't either. I think Bill Clinton was a moderate too but I think we might differ in the fact that he had no choice but to become a moderate especially after the Republicans took control during his Presidency, though I'm sure he did have some moderate positions, but I think he was mostly a liberal until he had no choice but to conform.
A lot of people prefer divided Governments, I can understand that because of what we've seen. Republicans should've stood up to Bush more when it came to issues such as education, spending, but they didn't and they paid the price. Seems like the same thing is happening now with Obama, although I think Obama will always get a pass because he's black, which is wrong, how are we ever going to get past race and judge someone fairly? Republicans are even playing the game and holding back on criticism.
For the Presidency I could never vote Democrat, so we're similar in how we feel when it comes to the Presidency, just different on how we'd vote, I also couldn't vote for a Democrat for Congress or Senate, and even locally I can't see myself crossing over, I just feel a lot of bitterness on how Bush was treated.
As far as Obama goes? not sure if he would even have the desire to run, or if there's a chance he'll lose will the party force him out? but if the Republicans don't run a good candidate? then he could get in again.
I go back and forth on Iraq, I do believe though there were WMD's there and they were either buried or moved to Syria (per Israeli intelligence) and after 9/11 I think Bush said we have to nip this crap in the bud, so he went in. It just seems as though under Clinton the US buried it's head in the sand when it came to terrorism, and Bush was stuck cleaning it up.
I do appreciate your answering the questions.
I appreciate you answering honestly also. Do you think Iraq was the bigger threat? I always had a problem with that decision, and at the time that was decided, I had no clue about politics. I was 23-ish, and I didn't care. I was getting married, and that was my focus, but when we went to war with Iraq, I was perplexed. I really was hating on Saddam, but I didn't think that was where we should be focused. And hindsight, I still feel that way. If we are going to take down dictators and their weapons, we should have started elsewhere.
-
I appreciate you answering honestly also. Do you think Iraq was the bigger threat? I always had a problem with that decision, and at the time that was decided, I had no clue about politics. I was 23-ish, and I didn't care. I was getting married, and that was my focus, but when we went to war with Iraq, I was perplexed. I really was hating on Saddam, but I didn't think that was where we should be focused. And hindsight, I still feel that way. If we are going to take down dictators and their weapons, we should have started elsewhere.
I don't think Iraq was a bigger threat, but I do think something had to be done about the region as a whole. With 9/11 I think Bush had to do something, and if Saddam ever got nuclear weapons I have no doubt he would've given them to the wrong people, so I think Bush felt as though he had to take out as many threats as possible.
-
I don't think Iraq was a bigger threat, but I do think something had to be done about the region as a whole. With 9/11 I think Bush had to do something, and if Saddam ever got nuclear weapons I have no doubt he would've given them to the wrong people, so I think Bush felt as though he had to take out as many threats as possible.
So where does that leave us with North Korea? (non-Muslim but HUGE threat)
-
Where I differ from both soleil and ballygirl is that I will vote for the person that I feel that will best represent me and my views regardless of what political party they belong to.
I've meet some southern democrats that are a LOT more conservitive than a lot of northern republicans.
I have voted for republicans, democrats and independants in my time.
One of the biggest problems this country has is folks that vote for the party and not the person.
-
So where does that leave us with North Korea? (non-Muslim but HUGE threat)
My personal opinion? I'd love to bomb the heck out of it if only to free a large number of North Koreans from the miserable lives they're forced to live. To compare the lives of people in the North to the South, it's infuriating to me.
-
Where I differ from both soleil and ballygirl is that I will vote for the person that I feel that will best represent me and my views regardless of what political party they belong to.
I've meet some southern democrats that are a LOT more conservitive than a lot of northern republicans.
I have voted for republicans, democrats and independants in my time.
One of the biggest problems this country has is folks that vote for the party and not the person.
Are the southern Democrats though beholden to their constituents? or the progressives of the Democratic party? Seems like some of them are afraid to go against the party higher ups. At 1 time yes, but it doesn't seem like it lately.
-
Where I differ from both soleil and ballygirl is that I will vote for the person that I feel that will best represent me and my views regardless of what political party they belong to.
I've meet some southern democrats that are a LOT more conservitive than a lot of northern republicans.
I have voted for republicans, democrats and independants in my time.
One of the biggest problems this country has is folks that vote for the party and not the person.
You know that actually isn't true. I consider it all. I am southern ('bout as southern as you can get), and I know many dems here would be considered republicans in a national election. I vote on the issues that mean a lot to me.
-
I don't think Iraq was a bigger threat, but I do think something had to be done about the region as a whole. With 9/11 I think Bush had to do something, and if Saddam ever got nuclear weapons I have no doubt he would've given them to the wrong people, so I think Bush felt as though he had to take out as many threats as possible.
Actually when you think about the region geopolitically, Iraq was the sensible move. We already were committed in Afghanistan, and I truly believe that Saddam had a WMD program of some type that would have, in short order, destabilized the entire region.
Lets not forget that Saddam invaded his neighbor Kuwait once, and we had to intervene, and he at the same time threatened Saudi Arabia. In short, he was a loose cannon that was aimed at about 60% of the oil production for the world......not a viable option to let that continue.
Were he to unleash some form of effective attack on Kuwait and Saudi again, he could bring the entire world economy to its knees within a few months.
North Korea has no resources, and can barely feed its own people......they are a threat to their neighbors, but it is in the strategic interest of the US to continue to just keep a lid on that situation.
doc
-
Oh, how about immigration?
I personally think employers should be penalized for hiring them, we need to dry up the jobs market and they'll go home. I'm for a guest worker program for professions that really need the help, but Mexico also needs to contribute if we're taking care of their health needs, free oil would work. English should be mandatory, no ballots in every language imaginable.
-
Actually when you think about the region geopolitically, Iraq was the sensible move. We already were committed in Afghanistan, and I truly believe that Saddam had a WMD program of some type that would have, in short order, destabilized the entire region.
Lets not forget that Saddam invaded his neighbor Kuwait once, and we had to intervene, and he at the same time threatened Saudi Arabia. In short, he was a loose cannon that was aimed at about 60% of the oil production for the world......not a viable option to let that continue.
Were he to unleash some form of effective attack on Kuwait and Saudi again, he could bring the entire world economy to its knees within a few months.
North Korea has no resources, and can barely feed its own people......they are a threat to their neighbors, but it is in the strategic interest of the US to continue to just keep a lid on that situation.
doc
Ok,then we shouldn't say we did it for the people of Iraq then. They are freed from an evil man, but if we are going to "save the world" from evil people, that wasn't the place to start.
-
Actually when you think about the region geopolitically, Iraq was the sensible move. We already were committed in Afghanistan, and I truly believe that Saddam had a WMD program of some type that would have, in short order, destabilized the entire region.
Lets not forget that Saddam invaded his neighbor Kuwait once, and we had to intervene, and he at the same time threatened Saudi Arabia. In short, he was a loose cannon that was aimed at about 60% of the oil production for the world......not a viable option to let that continue.
Were he to unleash some form of effective attack on Kuwait and Saudi again, he could bring the entire world economy to its knees within a few months.
North Korea has no resources, and can barely feed its own people......they are a threat to their neighbors, but it is in the strategic interest of the US to continue to just keep a lid on that situation.
doc
I agree.
-
I appreciate you answering honestly also. Do you think Iraq was the bigger threat? I always had a problem with that decision, and at the time that was decided, I had no clue about politics. I was 23-ish, and I didn't care. I was getting married, and that was my focus, but when we went to war with Iraq, I was perplexed. I really was hating on Saddam, but I didn't think that was where we should be focused. And hindsight, I still feel that way. If we are going to take down dictators and their weapons, we should have started elsewhere.
There are lots of military folks here that can answer things better then I probably can but understand one almost always fact of life...
It takes as long to undo a problem as it did to create it in the first place and a Iraq logistically and militarily is a starting point.
It wasn`t a home for militant islam but would be very willing to side with jihadists as its power hungry interests saw fit.
Like many in the far left here,Saddam saw islamists as a controllable ends to a means that he could control.
For him it was absolute domination of the region,for the far left here it is the end of capitalism.
Iraq was the only logical choice to try to turn to a popularly elected republic and eventually impact the region.
-
Ok,then we shouldn't say we did it for the people of Iraq then. They are freed from an evil man, but if we are going to "save the world" from evil people, that wasn't the place to start.
I agree with that too, we should've been honest about why we invaded, I never thought it was because we wanted to free the Iraqi people, if we were going to go to war to free people then there are places like North Korea and Countries in Africa we could've started with.
-
Oh, how about immigration?
I personally think employers should be penalized for hiring them, we need to dry up the jobs market and they'll go home. I'm for a guest worker program for professions that really need the help, but Mexico also needs to contribute if we're taking care of their health needs, free oil would work. English should be mandatory, no ballots in every language imaginable.
I want people to be here legally. But I want people to feel free to come here for better opportunities. That is also what this country was built on. I have no problem with us learning other languages of this world. I think it could only enhance our children. English is our language and should be the main priority for our kids to learn, but learning other languages can only help our children. Should it be mandatory? No. But it should be encouraged.
-
I want people to be here legally. But I want people to feel free to come here for better opportunities. That is also what this country was built on. I have no problem with us learning other languages of this world. I think it could only enhance our children. English is our language and should be the main priority for our kids to learn, but learning other languages can only help our children. Should it be mandatory? No. But it should be encouraged.
See, I want people to come here to become Americans, I don't get into the hyphenated American thing the progressives like, to me that was done to divide for their own personal gain.
-
I agree with that too, we should've been honest about why we invaded, I never thought it was because we wanted to free the Iraqi people, if we were going to go to war to free people then there are places like North Korea and Countries in Africa we could've started with.
I don't believe that GWB was dishonest about his motives for invading Iraq.......I believe that he only told part of the story, intentionally. Were I in his pposition I would have likely done the same thing, for two reasons.....first, many Americans are simply too stupid or disengaged to take a logical look at a complex geopolitical issue and come away with an understanding. Second, he had to listen to enough of that "No war for oil" crap as it ended up, can you imagine what it would have sounded like were he to declare that a part of his motives were preserving free access to oil reserves for the rest of the free world........
Regarding NK and Africa......first Africa is a waste of resources.......it is a largely ungovernable region that will need to evolve out of the bronze age before democracy will ever be possible, and in both countries the US has no strategic interest worth preserving there that cannot be sourced elsewhere.
doc
-
I don't believe that GWB was dishonest about his motives for invading Iraq.......I believe that he only told part of the story, intentionally. Were I in his pposition I would have likely done the same thing, for two reasons.....first, many Americans are simply too stupid or disengaged to take a logical look at a complex geopolitical issue and come away with an understanding. Second, he had to listen to enough of that "No war for oil" crap as it ended up, can you imagine what it would have sounded like were he to declare that a part of his motives were preserving free access to oil reserves for the rest of the free world........
Regarding NK and Africa......first Africa is a waste of resources.......it is a largely ungovernable region that will need to evolve out of the bronze age before democracy will ever be possible, and in both countries the US has no strategic interest worth preserving there that cannot be sourced elsewhere.
doc
So you think Americans would be more accepting of freeing people in Iraq as a reason because they could understand that more then the real reason? if so I can agree with that too, Americans at time can be so short-sighted that they can't see the over-all picture of what could happen down the road if Saddam was left unchecked.
-
My personal opinion? I'd love to bomb the heck out of it if only to free a large number of North Koreans from the miserable lives they're forced to live. To compare the lives of people in the North to the South, it's infuriating to me.
Sort of like what happened in Iraq?
Do you recall the purple fingers, and the pride of those that had one after Saddam was disposed of?
-
See, I want people to come here to become Americans, I don't get into the hyphenated American thing the progressives like, to me that was done to divide for their own personal gain.
Heritage maybe? Not sure since I was born and raised in this country, but if I were to go elsewhere, I'd always want to be referred to as an American in some way. My grandma always liked to call herself Irish-American even though it was her parents who came here and not her. She was born here. I have no answer to that question really. Maybe it is human nature to feel something about where you came from.
-
So you think Americans would be more accepting of freeing people in Iraq as a reason because they could understand that more then the real reason? if so I can agree with that too, Americans at time can be so short-sighted that they can't see the over-all picture of what could happen down the road if Saddam was left unchecked.
The short answer is .....yes......I also believe that freeing 25 million intelligent, and reasonably well educated people was part of the motive, but the entire decision was far more complex........
I further believe that fifty years from now, the decision will be looked upon far more favorably than it is now, when Iraq is stable and free, and a participating member of the world's economies. GWB was a visionary......he saw things as they "need to be"......unlike the present administration, which has no vision at all.
doc
-
You know that actually isn't true. I consider it all. I am southern ('bout as southern as you can get), and I know many dems here would be considered republicans in a national election. I vote on the issues that mean a lot to me.
Whoa...
Did you or did you not post
Although I would never vote republican,
?????
-
Are the southern Democrats though beholden to their constituents? or the progressives of the Democratic party? Seems like some of them are afraid to go against the party higher ups. At 1 time yes, but it doesn't seem like it lately.
I was speaking of the voters, not those running for office. I should have clarified that in my initial post.
-
So you think Americans would be more accepting of freeing people in Iraq as a reason because they could understand that more then the real reason? if so I can agree with that too, Americans at time can be so short-sighted that they can't see the over-all picture of what could happen down the road if Saddam was left unchecked.
Not addressed to me but the answer in a nutshell is yes,most people don`t grasp how far reaching the impact of oil production is to not just ours but the global way of life.
A tire is more oil then rubber for example and since we have shut down virtually all means of energy production here outside of oil it is in our national as well as a global interest.
This is the big regional threat of islam but not the only one.
The islamists fascist desires of religious rule are a threat which is embodied by wanton killing of innocents simply because they don`t believe.
The WOT has many faces but despite 9/11 a certain segment of the population here refuses to acknowledge what they are very open about.
The reason for that always seems to boil down to the same...they think that the resources used to fight oppression should instead be spent giving them what they think is a happier life for today.
Sorry to Soleil if it isn`t pleasant to hear but there is no greater greed and selfishness in the world then that held by the far left.
-
Sort of like what happened in Iraq?
Do you recall the purple fingers, and the pride of those that had one after Saddam was disposed of?
Yes, I admit that was exciting to see.
-
I still confused about this homosexuals not having equal rights thingy. I am to understand that if a homosexual male attempts to apply for a marriage license with his female friend, someone in government will deny the license?
For gawd's sake, don't tell Liza Minnelli!
-
Heritage maybe? Not sure since I was born and raised in this country, but if I were to go elsewhere, I'd always want to be referred to as an American in some way. My grandma always liked to call herself Irish-American even though it was her parents who came here and not her. She was born here. I have no answer to that question really. Maybe it is human nature to feel something about where you came from.
You do understand that to immigrate to another country means that you are intentionally leaving your old country behind you right?
-
The short answer is .....yes......I also believe that freeing 25 million intelligent, and reasonably well educated people was part of the motive, but the entire decision was far more complex........
I further believe that fifty years from now, the decision will be looked upon far more favorably than it is now, when Iraq is stable and free, and a participating member of the world's economies. GWB was a visionary......he saw things as they "need to be"......unlike the present administration, which has no vision at all.
doc
I also think history will treat Bush kindly. I think Bush's major problem throughout his Presidency was the lefts
constant Bush was selected not elected mantra that didn't end even when he was re-elected in 2004.
-
Not addressed to me but the answer in a nutshell is yes,most people don`t grasp how far reaching the impact of oil production is to not just ours but the global way of life.
A tire is more oil then rubber for example and since we have shut down virtually all means of energy production here outside of oil it is in our national as well as a global interest.
This is the big regional threat of islam but not the only one.
The islamists fascist desires of religious rule are a threat which is embodied by wanton killing of innocents simply because they don`t believe.
The WOT has many faces but despite 9/11 a certain segment of the population here refuses to acknowledge what they are very open about.
The reason for that always seems to boil down to the same...they think that the resources used to fight oppression should instead be spent giving them what they think is a happier life for today.
Sorry to Soleil if it isn`t pleasant to hear but there is no greater greed and selfishness in the world then that held by the far left.
I agree with your post too.
-
Whoa...
Did you or did you not post
?????
And I meant that. I happen to have always agreed with the dem side, and so unless things the parties stand for change, I will always vote dem. I obviously can't see the future, but I don't ever see myself voting Republican.
-
You do understand that to immigrate to another country means that you are intentionally leaving your old country behind you right?
Intentionally for various reasons. Doesn't mean you can't take the parts you did like with you. I am sure there is something about the culture you were raised in that could make you nostalgic for parts of the country.
-
And I meant that. I happen to have always agreed with the dem side, and so unless things the parties stand for change, I will always vote dem. I obiously can't see the future, but I don't ever see myself voting Republican.
Thanks for proving my point.
You are more about voting for the party than a person.
-
Thanks for proving my point.
You are more about voting for the party than a person.
How is that? I just told you I voted on the issues that meant something to me. It has always happened to be the dem side.
-
Intentionally for various reasons. Doesn't mean you can't take the parts you did like with you.
[/quote
Such as?
-
Intentionally for various reasons. Doesn't mean you can't take the parts you did like with you.
That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about what some radical homosexual's-head-cutting-off muslim guy may bring with him. Maybe we can applaud when some assimilating radical muslim brings the parts he liked about his old country to the City By The Bay. Can you imagine all those heads floating around in the water under the Golden Gate Bridge?
-
Intentionally for various reasons. Doesn't mean you can't take the parts you did like with you.
[/quote
Such as?
The neighborhood you grew up in. The family get togethers you had in this area. The food you ate. The different ways of culture. A lot of stuff. Not everyone remembers the political things. America's culture is different than that of other countries. So the country means one thing on a political level and another on a cultural level.
-
Thanks for proving my point.
You are more about voting for the party than a person.
I think for offices such as the Presidency, Senate and Congress I can never see myself voting Democrat at all, I'm in NJ, I'm stuck with Menendez and Lautenberg, I can't envision a Democrat ever coming along that I agree with on issues even a small percentage of the time.
-
That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about what some radical homosexual's-head-cutting-off muslim guy may bring with him. Maybe we can applaud when some assimilating radical muslim brings the parts he liked about his old country to the City By The Bay. Can you imagine all those heads floating around in the water under the Golden Gate Bridge?
Whoah, you totally took this into crazy land. Please tell me how that equates to anything I said.
-
How is that? I just told you I voted on the issues that meant something to me. It has always happened to be the dem side.
No... What you posted was:
unless things the parties stand for change, I will always vote dem.
Note your use of the word "parties".
I assume that to mean you mean politcal party, and that goes dircetly back to your comment that you would always vote dem.
After all these are your own words.
-
Whoah, you totally took this into crazy land. Please tell me how that equates to anything I said.
How does it not, lady? Religion is cultural, not political - or so we have to pretend. Muslims kill homosexuals. That's part of their culture. I can produce photos if you need them.
How do you pick and choose what can be brought to corrupt America's unique culture. Are you the arbitrator?
You are Crazyland. Leftism is a mental disorder. Even those like you who appear rational are not immune.
Do you hate muslims for hating homosexuals?
-
No... What you posted was:
Note your use of the word "parties".
I assume that to mean you mean politcal party, and that goes dircetly back to your comment that you would always vote dem.
After all these are your own words.
Yes, those are my words. I vote on the issues. I don't know how many other ways to say that. There are certain issues dems are for/against and certain ones repubs are for/against. That is kinda what makes them separate parties. I usually agree with the dems side, therefore, I vote that way.
-
Yes, those are my words. I vote on the issues. I don't know how many other ways to say that. There are certain issues dems are for/against and certain ones repubs are for/against. That is kinda what makes them separate parties. I usually agree with the dems side, therefore, I vote that way.
Just for curiosity sake, would you list a few items you disagree with Republican's on (besides the gay marriage and abortion issue, we know where you stand on those).
-
Do you hate muslims for hating homosexuals?
Are you asking why progressives are selective in who they condemn?
-
Are you asking why progressives are selective in who they condemn?
Their hypocrisy comes naturally.
-
Are you asking why progressives are selective in who they condemn?
I'm just trying to get one of them, even a plebe like that one, to face the obvious hypocrisy of his/her purposefully obtuse worldview.
I am quite aware their mental illness gets in the way of clarity -- but it was worth a shot.
-
How does it not, lady? Religion is cultural, not political - or so we have to pretend. Muslims kill homosexuals. That's part of their culture. I can produce photos if you need them.
How do you pick and choose what can be brought to corrupt America's unique culture. Are you the arbitrator?
You are Crazyland. Leftism is a mental disorder. Even those like you who appear rational are not immune.
Do you hate muslims for hating homosexuals?
I honestly can't even respond to that because that has nothing at all to do with anything that I am saying. Mexicans are predominantly Catholic. That is part of their culture. I wasn't even really talking about the Middle East. There are many different cultures and religions in this world, and unlike many other countries, we have freedom of religion here. But you brought up religion. I didn't. I was talking other cultural aspects.
-
Their hypocrisy comes naturally.
1 of my favorite Ann Coulter's quotes is this:
"We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it. They would, except it would put them on the same side as the United States."
-
I honestly can't even respond to that because that has nothing at all to do with anything at all that I am saying. Mexicans are predominantly Catholic. That is part of their culture. I wasn't even really talking about the Middle East. There are many different cultures and religions in this world, and unlike many other countries, we have freedom of religion here. But you brought up religion. I didn't. I was talking other cultural aspects.
Yes, friends, this is the traffic circles of an obtuse mind that worships failure. We call them DUmmies.
-
gee....only took 3 pages before it turned ugly.
what a surprise.
-
Yes, friends, this is the traffic circles of an obtuse mind that worships failure. We call them DUmmies.
So you won't address what I wrote, just put me down?
-
gee....only took 3 pages before it turned ugly.
what a surprise.
Look, I am not trying to turn this ugly. I am sure it will turn on me because I am the lone one here who agrees with me, duh. But really, I am trying to keep it civil like I wanted it to be.
-
1 of my favorite Ann Coulter's quotes is this:
"We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it. They would, except it would put them on the same side as the United States."
That is one of my favorite Ann quotes too. So true. So honest. So un-debate-able.
All a mentally wigged-out leftist can say in response is "Shut up". It's GOLDEN!
-
soleil I appreciate your sticking the thread out, though I may not agree with much of what you say you do have the right to feel whatever way you feel. People do change though, I remember Dennis Miller when he was a leftist, it's amazing how he turned around and went the polar opposite, same for David Zucker.
-
Look, I am not trying to turn this ugly. I am sure it will turn on me because I am the lone one here who agrees with me, duh. But really, I am trying to keep it civil like I wanted it to be.
For what it's worth, I don't see you being ugly Soleil.
-
Look, I am not trying to turn this ugly. I am sure it will turn on me because I am the lone one here who agrees with me, duh. But really, I am trying to keep it civil like I wanted it to be.
I think you've been very civil and it's not easy being the only 1 with a different POV.
-
So you won't address what I wrote, just put me down?
You need to be put down. Or at least brought to reality. What did you say that deserved an address. You qualify things after the fact to fit your needs. "I was talking other cultural aspects", you say. You didn't specify, now did you? So, when I go down some avenue you do not wish to travel, I am being mean to you?
Sweetie, that tactic is on page two of the Liberal's Handbook. I know you. You are not fooling me.
-
I did specify.
-
For what it's worth, I don't see you being ugly Soleil.
I am trying my best not to be. I do realize I am at the conservative cave. However, it can be kept civil. I would like for it to.
-
You need to be put down. Or at least brought to reality. What did you say that deserved an address. You qualify things after the fact to fit your needs. "I was talking other cultural aspects", you say. You didn't specify, now did you? So, when I go down some avenue you do not wish to travel, I am being mean to you?
Sweetie, that tactic is on page two of the Liberal's Handbook. I know you. You are not fooling me.
Undies, you know I love you but that went too far.
-
Undies, you know I love you but that went too far.
I didn't mean "killed". I meant in the context it was originally used by the lib.
I love you too, and I am extremely surprised you would be confused by that.
(BTW, I past your old neighborhood twice today! :) )
-
Heritage maybe? Not sure since I was born and raised in this country, but if I were to go elsewhere, I'd always want to be referred to as an American in some way. My grandma always liked to call herself Irish-American even though it was her parents who came here and not her. She was born here. I have no answer to that question really. Maybe it is human nature to feel something about where you came from.
I'm not sure about your age, but I think you are near my childrens' age, so your grandmother would be my parents age. I think....
The difference between the immigrants of today, and those of my grandparents age...was that prior to the WWII ....people who immigrated to the United States, wanted to be Americans.
Yes, many of them retained lots of their homelands, holiday customs, foods, feast days, etc....but they learned to speak English, they worked to become legal citizens. They assimilated into the American culture ....the American culture and mores were not expected to adapt to the immigrants' culture. While they might still refer to themselves as Irish-American, or Swedish, Italian, Polish, Greek -American...they learned to speak English and were PROUD of it! They enlisted in the US Military...and were PROUD of it! They managed to keep their heritage, yet they became Americans. And they were PROUD of it!!!
Today, we Americans our losing our Americana culture because we are being forced by our own government and those "Political Correctness must reign supreme" advocates...to adapt to the multi-cultural population that is becoming more prevalent in our society every day.
What the powers that be are forgetting in forcing this change .....is that for 500 YEARS, people have been coming to this country...to America....to get away from their homelands!!
And what our we doing? We are going along with it, and in the process are losing the United States of America.
This is NOT the United States of the World.
This is America!!!
When are our politicians, and those who are enforcing the political correctness of making every culture in the world more important than being American, going to wake up and realize what they are doing?
It's cheaper to allow all the illegal immigrants to go through as extensive as possible background checks, make them learn English, make them get a real job that pays taxes and Social Security, then give them citizenship and stop paying them under the table and perpetuating the illegality of the situation.
Those that want to continue to do illegal activities will move on to another place...they don't want to be legal...so go after the much lower number and either return them to their country of origin or shoot 'em! (not literally ::) )
They want to live here....then fine....become Americans!!! Do not ask Americans to become Mexican, Indian, Pakastani, whatever.
A perfect example of a particular nationality that has immigrated here and assimilated into Americans are the Vietnamese. Go into any nail salon that is owned by a Vietnam born individual. They speak English...some better than others, they have taken "American" names that are easier to pronounce, they work hard, they pay taxes, many are working on their education, and they are working on becoming American citizens if they aren't already. These people want to become "American" ....while retaining their heritage, and not asking Americans to become more Vietnamese.
-
Look, I am not trying to turn this ugly. I am sure it will turn on me because I am the lone one here who agrees with me, duh. But really, I am trying to keep it civil like I wanted it to be.
I don't think you've been ugly at all.
-
I'm not sure about your age, but I think you are near my childrens' age, so your grandmother would be my parents age. I think....
The difference between the immigrants of today, and those of my grandparents age...was that prior to the WWII ....people who immigrated to the United States, wanted to be Americans.
Yes, many of them retained lots of their homelands, holiday customs, foods, feast days, etc....but they learned to speak English, they worked to become legal citizens. They assimilated into the American culture ....the American culture and mores were not expected to adapt to the immigrants' culture. While they might still refer to themselves as Irish-American, or Swedish, Italian, Polish, Greek -American...they learned to speak English and were PROUD of it! They enlisted in the US Military...and were PROUD of it! They managed to keep their heritage, yet they became Americans. And they were PROUD of it!!!
Today, we Americans our losing our Americana culture because we are being forced by our own government and those "Political Correctness must reign supreme" advocates...to adapt to the multi-cultural population that is becoming more prevalent in our society every day.
What the powers that be are forgetting in forcing this change .....is that for 500 YEARS, people have been coming to this country...to America....to get away from their homelands!!
And what our we doing? We are going along with it, and in the process are losing the United States of America.
This is NOT the United States of the World.
This is America!!!
When are our politicians, and those who are enforcing the political correctness of making every culture in the world more important than being American, going to wake up and realize what they are doing?
It's cheaper to allow all the illegal immigrants to go through as extensive as possible background checks, make them learn English, make them get a real job that pays taxes and Social Security, then give them citizenship and stop paying them under the table and perpetuating the illegality of the situation.
Those that want to continue to do illegal activities will move on to another place...they don't want to be legal...so go after the much lower number and either return them to their country of origin or shoot 'em! (not literally ::) )
They want to live here....then fine....become Americans!!! Do not ask Americans to become Mexican, Indian, Pakastani, whatever.
A perfect example of a particular nationality that has immigrated here and assimilated into Americans are the Vietnamese. Go into any nail salon that is owned by a Vietnam born individual. They speak English...some better than others, they have taken "American" names that are easier to pronounce, they work hard, they pay taxes, many are working on their education, and they are working on becoming American citizens if they aren't already. These people want to become "American" ....while retaining their heritage, and not asking Americans to become more Vietnamese.
You expressed how I feel much better then I did.
-
I'm not sure about your age, but I think you are near my childrens' age, so your grandmother would be my parents age. I think....
The difference between the immigrants of today, and those of my grandparents age...was that prior to the WWII ....people who immigrated to the United States, wanted to be Americans.
Yes, many of them retained lots of their homelands, holiday customs, foods, feast days, etc....but they learned to speak English, they worked to become legal citizens. They assimilated into the American culture ....the American culture and mores were not expected to adapt to the immigrants' culture. While they might still refer to themselves as Irish-American, or Swedish, Italian, Polish, Greek -American...they learned to speak English and were PROUD of it! They enlisted in the US Military...and were PROUD of it! They managed to keep their heritage, yet they became Americans. And they were PROUD of it!!!
Today, we Americans our losing our Americana culture because we are being forced by our own government and those "Political Correctness must reign supreme" advocates...to adapt to the multi-cultural population that is becoming more prevalent in our society every day.
What the powers that be are forgetting in forcing this change .....is that for 500 YEARS, people have been coming to this country...to America....to get away from their homelands!!
And what our we doing? We are going along with it, and in the process are losing the United States of America.
This is NOT the United States of the World.
This is America!!!
When are our politicians, and those who are enforcing the political correctness of making every culture in the world more important than being American, going to wake up and realize what they are doing?
It's cheaper to allow all the illegal immigrants to go through as extensive as possible background checks, make them learn English, make them get a real job that pays taxes and Social Security, then give them citizenship and stop paying them under the table and perpetuating the illegality of the situation.
Those that want to continue to do illegal activities will move on to another place...they don't want to be legal...so go after the much lower number and either return them to their country of origin or shoot 'em! (not literally ::) )
They want to live here....then fine....become Americans!!! Do not ask Americans to become Mexican, Indian, Pakastani, whatever.
A perfect example of a particular nationality that has immigrated here and assimilated into Americans are the Vietnamese. Go into any nail salon that is owned by a Vietnam born individual. They speak English...some better than others, they have taken "American" names that are easier to pronounce, they work hard, they pay taxes, many are working on their education, and they are working on becoming American citizens if they aren't already. These people want to become "American" ....while retaining their heritage, and not asking Americans to become more Vietnamese.
I am all for people wanting to become citizens here being expected to learn and know English. I also know that his country has been evolving from the get go. The question is are people willing to evolve with it. Some are, some aren't, some are to a certain extent.
-
You expressed how I feel much better then I did.
Thanks.
My dad's parents came here in 1921 from Great Britain, they went to northen Ohio.
My mother's came here in the early 1900's from England, they went to central Illinois.
My step-mother's came here about the same time from Denmark, they went to Western Iowa.
My ex's paternal great-grandparents came here from Holland, they went to Chicago.
All of them came through Ellis Island, and all eventually became American citizens.
It's easier to understand when you grow up hearing the stories of why your family came to this country...and it really wasn't all that long ago. Plus, growing up in the midwest....many of my friends had grandparents, some parents that were born in another country.
-
I am all for people wanting to become citizens here being expected to learn and know English. I also know that his country has been evolving from the get go. The question is are people willing to evolve with it. Some are, some aren't, some are to a certain extent.
I don't think it's "evolving"....I think it is "you must change and stop being who you are" being forced upon those that are American born.
There is a huge difference between acceptance and having something shoved down one's throat.
We Americans are not being asked to accept immigrants...we are being forced to adapt to their cultures and mores.
I have no problem with accepting an immigrant who comes to America with the intent of becoming an American and assimilating into our society.
We celebrate St Patrick's Day with the Irish, we recognize Yom Kippur, Hanakah, we go to the Greek Festivals, or any number of "heritage" events. That's not it.
It's those who are not willing to become "American" and to do it legally, that I have a problem with.
A hyphenated American....is just that....a hyphen.
-
I didn't mean "killed". I meant in the context it was originally used by the lib.
I love you too, and I am extremely surprised you would be confused by that.
(BTW, I past your old neighborhood twice today! :) )
Sorry I misunderstood you.
Damn you, I want to go home. :(
-
You need to be put down. Or at least brought to reality. What did you say that deserved an address. You qualify things after the fact to fit your needs. "I was talking other cultural aspects", you say. You didn't specify, now did you? So, when I go down some avenue you do not wish to travel, I am being mean to you?
Sweetie, that tactic is on page two of the Liberal's Handbook. I know you. You are not fooling me.
Did someone die and leave you as the final arbiter of all that is correct in the world? I must have missed that memo.........
So far you've tried unsuccessfully to derail what was a simple, civil discussion between a couple of members into homosexuality (you failed at that), now you are attempting a different form of veiled attack.
Undies......you and perhaps to a lesser degree, a couple of others are singularly responsible for most of the threads that this member participates in being either locked, or tossed into "Fight Club"........I think that by now we are all aware of your opinions (which, I'm told are like assholes.....everybody has one, and yours appears to smell worse than most). By now, anyone with an IQ that is higher than room temperature has pretty much figured you out, so I think that you've made your point.......all that is happening now is that you are making yourself look like an idiot.....
If you can't participate in a rather benign thread without disrupting it, I'm going to request that the Admins get involved.
doc
-
Did someone die and leave you as the final arbiter of all that is correct in the world? I must have missed that memo.........
So far you've tried unsuccessfully to derail what was a simple, civil discussion between a couple of members into homosexuality (you failed at that), now you are attempting a different form of veiled attack.
Undies......you and perhaps to a lesser degree, a couple of others are singularly responsible for most of the threads that this member participates in being either locked, or tossed into "Fight Club"........I think that by now we are all aware of your opinions (which, I'm told are like assholes.....everybody has one, and yours appears to smell worse than most). By now, anyone with an IQ that is higher than room temperature has pretty much figured you out, so I think that you've made your point.......all that is happening now is that you are making yourself look like an idiot.....
If you can't participate in a rather benign thread without disrupting it, I'm going to request that the Admins get involved.
doc
My, you are a cry baby these days.
This would have a lot more impact if I cared about anything you have to say.
-
My, you are a cry baby these days.
This would have a lot more impact if I cared about anything you have to say.
Perhaps you'd like to tale this discussion "behind closed doors" in the Mod Shop........where we can discuss it privately?
If you have the gonads........
doc
-
Perhaps you'd like to tale this discussion "behind closed doors" in the Mod Shop........where we can discuss it privately?
If you have the gonads........
doc
I've already said exactly what I mean. There is nothing to add. But thank you for your interest.
-
I've already said exactly what I mean. There is nothing to add. But thank you for your interest.
Well....there is a thread waiting, whenever you gather the courage.......
doc
-
Well....there is a thread waiting, whenever you gather the courage.......
doc
"You gather the courage" implies you have some sort of superiority in the matter. That is to laugh.
dock
-
Well this went another direction. Kinda had a feeling it would.
However, I do not see why this discussion can not be kept civil. It can be. There doesn't have to be attacks. Lord Undies, you have totally made it clear that you can't tolerate me. Fine with me. That goes the same for me towards you. I have tried to keep it civil with you. I even wished you well with whatever issue you had recently. I meant that.
You hate what I stand for. Even though you don't know all that I stand for. What you do know disgusts you, you've made that clear. But at this point, if you are clicking on a thread you know is somewhat about me or has to do with me, and you feel the need to respond,remember that there is no need to reiterate what you've said a 1,000 times by now. I get it. Let it go. I ain't changing your mind and vice versa. Quit being a broken record.