The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Attero Dominatus on May 04, 2010, 02:22:02 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8267093
subsuelo (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 06:37 PM
Original message
It's time to start nationalizing shit - Chavez style.
Actually, it's way past time.
The government - OUR government (you know, the government of the people, for the people) needs to start nationalizing some of these fascist corporations. They clearly are NOT taking care of the environment, they're wrecking the economy, they're screwing over working people and robbing us for bailouts when THEY need it. Clearly, they do NOT have our best interests in mind, or *anyone else's*.
When profits are prioritized over people, disaster simply has to follow.
So it is really way past time to start nationalizing these corporations. **** 'em and **** the blind ideologues that cry "no but it's communism!" or some ignorant bullshit. It's time to take over the corporations that are ****ing all of us over, and let the people decide what's best.
Start with the ones that provide basic services.
Actually, start with Exxon-Mobil. That would be not in just our interests, but the environment and the interest of the rest of the world.
Cause honestly, we all (Americans) really should be held responsible at some point if we don't.
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Communism worked so well in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea and Socialism worked so well in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. Only one hundred million people died. Sure, nice idea, NOT!
lxlxlxl (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. oh god no...
never going to happen, and this country is incapable of even reading your headline. your going to have to win at least a midterm before i trust this country to nationalize anything
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree that businesses and industries that are vital to national security
ought to be owned and operated by the government, not by a company looking to profit.
Utilities, energy (including mining and drilling), pharmaceutical manufacturing, defense manufacturing, large-scale grain agriculture--all of these things are absolutely vital to our security, and should NOT be in private hands. Let the private market provide non-essential things like furniture, clothes, toys, cosmetics, whatever. The stuff we need to SURVIVE should not be floating around on the whims of a profit-driven, corner-cutting, shortcut-taking private producer.
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The problem with socialism is that governments run out of other people's money. What then, idiot?
AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. Well put Lyric, and corporations have ZERO loyalty to countries... Updated at 2:19 PM
Corporations, especially multinational corporations, are more powerful than governments. They have no borders. And they have the resources to purchase governments to do whatever they want them to do. Look at the oil disaster for example of how a paltry $500k switch could have prevented it if we had regulations.
Corporations couldn't care less if any country goes bankrupt or is destroyed. They will continue to operate with their mission driven by greed.
I agree with you 10000000%. We should nationalize everything that is crucial to our defense and our survival. A lot of people forget, but we the people ARE the government. WE need to own the resources of our nation. It belongs to ALL OF US, not just a handful of opportunistic criminals.
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And governments can't be greedy? After all, they do get an influx of other people's money and the stimulus packages were full of funds directed toward the pet projects of various politicians. Idiot.
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The DUmmies would change their tune once they were paying $8.00 for gas and got a $3,000 electric bill. Ya know, I tolerate the DUmmies simply for the comic relief; however, once they're determined to be this stupid, they should be shot at the base of the neck with a small caliber pistol.
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Somewhere in what's left of Zimbabwe, Mugabe is reading this post with a huge grin of his face.
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The DUmmies would change their tune once they were paying $8.00 for gas and got a $3,000 electric bill. Ya know, I tolerate the DUmmies simply for the comic relief; however, once they're determined to be this stupid, they should be shot at the base of the neck with a small caliber pistol.
Naah, they'd be better off beheaded. It would save ammo.
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Government owned enterprises invariably lose money, and if all companies are government owned whose going to be paying taxes?
They WANT us to become an impoverished 3rd world country.
BTW- Hugo Chavez took over the coffee industry and now they are a net importer of coffee. See how well that worked? lol
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Attero ...
Don't I know you from somewhere?
:hyper:
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. Well put Lyric, and corporations have ZERO loyalty to countries...
But they are loyal to customers.
And they are loyal to countries that protect and defend their rights.
This may come as a shock to you liberals but government is chartered by the people to defend their interests from force and fraud and those rights do NOT evaporate just because people come together to form a business concern.
If the government ceases to protect and begins to consume then it has slipped its bonds and must be remediated.
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Nationalized by whom? And what's the point? Sarah Palin will reverse "nationalization" just like she's going to dismantle the rest of this leftist crap.
:fuelfire:
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Try it. I f'n DARE you. It would be a golden ticket for the GOP.
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Somewhere in what's left of Zimbabwe, Mugabe is reading this post with a huge grin of his face.
That brought tears to my eyes..from laughing.
I wouldn't come within 350 yards near my shit if you want to take it.
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jdp349 (185 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue May-04-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
90. This never would have happened if big oil had been nationalized
If big oil was state run there would obviously be far more stringent saftey and precautionary standards in place to prevent any and all environmental disasters. Corporations always lack perfect information when it comes to assessing risk on top of that they obviously willingly subject themselves to catastrophe, disaster and absolute PR nightmares because they pursue profits above all else no matter how much money it costs them. Government on the other hand, particularly democratic governments always have perfect information and never let popular sentiments and politics interfer in the management of state run institutions. Additionally, because governments have the benefit of hindsight due to perfect information, any blunder privately run industry makes, we can be assured that publically run industry will never make those mistakes. For example, look at the track record of fully nationalized no existent state run big oil in the United States, it's perfect compared to private industry. Therefore you can be sure that I'm not simply contorting this environmental disaster to fit and promote my intellectually bankrupt and absurd ideology. From this it logically follows that we should nationalize Wall St. With nationalized industry nothing bad will happen ever.
see what I did there? :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
I swear to ****ing god I think a good part of DU is convinced these are the people that run BP
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Government is MORE likely to cut corners and compromise safety you dolt. Chernobyl (where the soviets deliberately endangered a faulty reactor design to run a test) is a fine example of government control of energy.
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Government is MORE likely to cut corners and compromise safety you dolt. Chernobyl (where the soviets deliberately endangered a faulty reactor design to run a test) is a fine example of government control of energy.
That is exactly right.
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The government - OUR government (you know, the government of the people, for the people) needs to start nationalizing some of these fascist corporations.
Hey lurking DUmmies....explain how exactly corporations are fascist? Oh that's right, you can't.
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Nationalize DUmmies....I can go for that. Yep, we put them on a collective farm and let them work it all with a hoe and a shovel....easy on the environment, no profits, very little production equals small carbon footprint....they should be delirious with joy.
And best of all, we don't have to put up with their asses.
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Hey lurking DUmmies....explain how exactly corporations are fascist? Oh that's right, you can't.
Facist being a GOVERNMENT thing.
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Government is MORE likely to cut corners and compromise safety you dolt. Chernobyl (where the soviets deliberately endangered a faulty reactor design to run a test) is a fine example of government control of energy.
Government by default f*cks everything up anyway. :)
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Government by default f*cks everything up anyway. :)
LOL yep.
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LOL yep.
Venezuela nationalized the oil industry and are now begging the companies to come back and help them.
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Venezuela nationalized the oil industry and are now begging the companies to come back and help them.
I have read about that. It is not surprising.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree that businesses and industries that are vital to national security
ought to be owned and operated by the government, not by a company looking to profit.
Utilities, energy (including mining and drilling), pharmaceutical manufacturing, defense manufacturing, large-scale grain agriculture--all of these things are absolutely vital to our security, and should NOT be in private hands.
Conrade Stalin likes the way you think! And he also thinks those unproductive small farmers, in it for their own profit, should be rolled up into State collectives for national security reasons...and woe betide any wreckers and Kulaks who resist!
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That is exactly the kind of government they would give us. Millions of Americans would die in the famines to come.
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Naah, they'd be better off beheaded. It would save ammo.
Can we toy with the idea of gougingout their eyes afterwards and skull-****ing their eye sockets?
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Can we toy with the idea of gougingout their eyes afterwards and skull-****ing their eye sockets?
Only the non-hot chicks. I'm assuming that we'd want to keep any hotties alive for . . . "stress relief."
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Only the non-hot chicks.
That sounds like a far-fetch assumption has been made.
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That sounds like a far-fetch assumption has been made.
A couple of things here, sir--
1) I didn't give a quantity of "non-hot chicks." One could assume that the number is quite high; even all of them fall in that category to some of us.
2) The degree of "hotness" varies from person to person. What I consider hot, you may not. And vice versa. And tucker or Airwolf or whomever have their own criteria.
(Besides, that's what ball gags are made for.)
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Once again, one of them is essentially saying that socialism can work, with the right people in charge. Every country its been tried in, it has failed or is in the process of failing. Even Venezuela -beloved by some there, such as stupid Beth- is simply running out of money, even though they are flush with natural resources.
Do we need to even mention Greece ?
The end sum is Socialism works only as long as there are some who still earn money through capitalism to pay the bills. Once the size of the bills socialism generates can no longer be paid by 'the wealthy', the whole thing becomes unsustainable as more former business owners end up part of the government supported masses.
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A couple guys over there start a squabble.
onenote (1000+ posts) Tue May-04-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #97
116. I've seen some gold plated government offices
My point is that anyone who thinks that putting the government in charge of a particular line of business is going to eliminate waste and fraud is deluding themselves.
William Z. Foster (163 posts) Tue May-04-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. I don't know what you are saying
The point of government is to put the people in charge, to represent the working people's interests. The wealthy people don't need government, they could just priuvati9ze everything and run the country as a plantation and hire their own police and military. blah blah blah
Drink much, do we?
This guy wants to sound intellectual:
provis99 (1000+ posts) Mon May-03-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
69. if a government does it, externalities are borne by the owners of government
private industry does not internalize the cost of externalities. So yes, government deals with pollution better than private industry.
:mental: Of course privates "internalize" the "externalities." It's called "booking the cost." If this oil spill causes gas prices to go up, companies will have a larger expense line for gas, you DUmbshit.
I'm going to edit this heavily because there was so much blah blah blah, for paragraphs, on and on.
William Z. Foster (163 posts) Tue May-04-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. that makes no sense
At one time "schools, roads, defense, justice, food safety, environmental regulation" were "inherently commercial enterprises." To say that everything that is now private should remain so because it already is private is illogical, and is an argument against public services, public welfare, and the concept of government itself. That is an extreme right wing view politically,.....
There is no way to "run out of money to fund all those social programs." That is an illogical argument, and a favorite of the right wing. The working people benefit from the social programs, and the working people are the source of all wealth - all funds.
"We can't afford" to provide various things for the working people always means "we the wealthy do not want any of the money we took from the workers given back to them, because we are enjoying our luxury and power thank you very much."
Forget it, I threw most of it away. He's a rabid communist.
D23MIURG23 (1000+ posts) Tue May-04-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
86. Unrec. Don't use Chavez in a positive context.
That man is an anti-democratic statist, and as far as I can see he is hated by his own people.
fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Tue May-04-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. and that would be a lie
NM_hemilover (284 posts) Tue May-04-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #95
104. Keep your "American meathead" comments to yourself,
I'm not impressed with insulting the American population. Chavez is a monumental blowhard, who's inflammatory, shock value comments get him praise from people all over the world, that love to hear the US ridiculed. Look past the window dressing that has your attention, and see that Chavez is an idiot, and an idiot who doesn't care what happens to his country.
Blah blah blah
Your self righteous tone, ironic user name, and "splatter" method of accusatory conversational skills doesn't leave much to the imagination. I can almost HEAR your hand on your hip waving your little finger in the air, but still not impressed.
:lmao:
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We should nationalize everything that is crucial to our defense and our survival. A lot of people forget, but we the people ARE the government. WE need to own the resources of our nation. It belongs to ALL OF US, not just a handful of opportunistic criminals.
Wow, they think that a massive centralised government would actually allow them to speak out. One peep about WE THE PEOPLE and they will be inside looking out. A bit more lip and they are face down in the ditch. The one thing that keeps governments in check is a larger private sector that it has to answer to. Take that away and all bets are off.
They don't really understand what they are asking for and woe to all of us if they get it.
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The DUmmies would change their tune once they were paying $8.00 for gas and got a $3,000 electric bill. Ya know, I tolerate the DUmmies simply for the comic relief; however, once they're determined to be this stupid, they should be shot at the base of the neck with a small caliber pistol.
Want to borrow my .22 mag? I'll even pay for the shells!
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Wow, they think that a massive centralised government would actually allow them to speak out. One peep about WE THE PEOPLE and they will be inside looking out. A bit more lip and they are face down in the ditch. The one thing that keeps governments in check is a larger private sector that it has to answer to. Take that away and all bets are off.
They don't really understand what they are asking for and woe to all of us if they get it.
The Killing Fields come to mind! It worked so well in Cambodia!
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subsuelo (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-03-10 06:37 PM
Original message
It's time to start nationalizing shit - Chavez style.
Actually, it's way past time.
Blah blah DUmmie stupidity filler blah blah...... OUR government (you know, the government of the people, for the people) then more DUmmie blathering
The fact that they consistently forget BY the people is the root of all their flawed thinking.
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Naah, they'd be better off beheaded. It would save ammo.
Baseball bat. I'd rather watch these pieces of crap suffer.
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Baseball bat. I'd rather watch these pieces of crap suffer.
The big question is can single cell organisms suffer? :-)
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The fact that they consistently forget BY the people is the root of all their flawed thinking.
So true lastparker
Here is the quote from Abe...
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth".
Sure it says "for the people" but after it says "by the people", hence Abe was saying that the people truly run the show and make a society function and that a government of the people stays out of the way for the most part.
Just try to tell that to a DUmmie or any far left lib though and wait for the shit storm of insults
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So true lastparker
Here is the quote from Abe...
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth".
Sure it says "for the people" but after it says "by the people", hence Abe was saying that the people truly run the show and make a society function and that a government of the people stays out of the way for the most part.
Just try to tell that to a DUmmie or any far left lib though and wait for the shit storm of insults
There you go talking logic about something the DUmies have no clue about. Their ignorance is strapped down by their idiocy and that is being propelled at warp speed by their hatered for everything the US stands for.