The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on February 02, 2010, 10:43:58 AM
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whattheidonot (59 posts) Fri Jan-08-10 12:29 PM
Original message
no jobs, war, voluntary army?
There are not a lot of jobs, the government publicizes war all the the time and the army is voluntary and hiring. Should a democracy ,particularly one with wide global interest have a volunteer army? A drafted army means the sons of people in power might get killed or sent off too some little understood war. a drafted army creates more scrutiny, more accountability, less blanket support of the support our troops slogan. We all support the troops, they are doing their job. That does not mean we have to be taken in by this to the point of no investigation.
Anything to destroy the country- that should be the slogan of the left.
elocs (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-08-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. A drafted army would mean hundreds of thousands of troops available for combat
since females would now be required to be conscripted if there were a draft. At one point in Vietnam we had 500,000 troops there. Could you imagine what a president like Bush could have done if he had that many troops at his disposal?
Anyone who chooses to join the service now, who volunteers, must know that unless they possess some great skill that they will likely be sent into combat. If you choose to become a cop you have to know that at some point you might be faced with having to shoot someone, maybe even a kid, but you did make a choice to become a cop.
The rich will always have a vocational advantage over poor and less advantaged in this country. They will never have to go and work down a coal mine or labor in the farm fields. That's simply a part of life that is not easily changed.
When countries have large standing armies, they use them. If they know they can get large numbers of troops in a draft they will find the occasion to get them. We don't need to be involved in wars all over the globe, 2 are bad enough.
Not just females, but gays, lesbians (arn't they the same thing?), transexuals, underground panthers...
PacerLJ35 (541 posts) Sun Jan-10-10 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think requiring 2 years of national service would be a good idea
Those "drafted" would not be required to fill combat roles unless they volunteered...it could help out with all those other missions that we've contracted out to corporations, like record-keeping, maintenance and a bunch of other things.
Me? Trolling DU? Nah...... :hi5: <----(joint masterbation exersice- JMASEX)
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What a wonderful idea!
Because no one EVER thought of a draft during the previous 8 years.
:whatever:
I guess this idiot didn't hear how well this went for Charlie Rangel when he tried it.
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Yeah, because I want the person watching my son's back to be someone who doesn't even want to be there.
Cindie
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Yeah, because I want the person watching my son's back to be someone who doesn't even want to be there.
Cindie
he'll be watching your son's ass here in a bit...
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Personally, I think a draft would be great for the USA. Most kids today have ZERO self-discipline and the military sure gives you that. It would give these whiney losers a reason to really whine. However, I think if you take welfare than you should be doing work. Picking up trash, cleaning the neighborhood and a myriad of now public sector union jobs. Oh and be drug tested.
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I've got it! Every damned kid that gets busted while commiting gang violence, is imediately drafted into combat! They want to be a in a gang? How about one that actually fights crimes against humanity instead of preying on the innocent?
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Personally, I think a draft would be great for the USA. Most kids today have ZERO self-discipline and the military sure gives you that. It would give these whiney losers a reason to really whine. However, I think if you take welfare than you should be doing work. Picking up trash, cleaning the neighborhood and a myriad of now public sector union jobs. Oh and be drug tested.
Sounds like state slavery to me. I would hope people would take up and march on DC by the millions if it happened.
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Rangel had no serious intention of passing it, that was just a cynical ploy to screw with Bush. What these idiots don't know about a functional and effective military, is, well, anything and everything.
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Sounds like state slavery to me. I would hope people would take up and march on DC by the millions if it happened.
Me too! Seriously, there's plenty of things people can do to make retribution, or be of service (maybe in admin they seem relatively incompetent anyway) without being in a combat zone they don't want to be in. It puts everyone around them at risk. It's simply wrong to expect those who understand they have a job to do and take it seriously to have to be tripping over some incompetent boob who's only there because he got in trouble or being forced to because of some mandatory requirement. While it works for other countries, America is the world's 911 and that requires a level of dedication other countries don't have to have.
Cindie
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Me too! Seriously, there's plenty of things people can do to make retribution, or be of service (maybe in admin they seem relatively incompetent anyway) without being in a combat zone they don't want to be in. It puts everyone around them at risk. It's simply wrong to expect those who understand they have a job to do and take it seriously to have to be tripping over some incompetent boob who's only there because he got in trouble or being forced to because of some mandatory requirement. While it works for other countries, America is the world's 911 and that requires a level of dedication other countries don't have to have.
Cindie
Any form of National Servitude to the government should lead to deposing the government violently.
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Personally, I think a draft would be great for the USA. Most kids today have ZERO self-discipline and the military sure gives you that. It would give these whiney losers a reason to really whine. However, I think if you take welfare than you should be doing work. Picking up trash, cleaning the neighborhood and a myriad of now public sector union jobs. Oh and be drug tested.
No, actually, it doesn't. You discover it within.
elocs (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-08-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. A drafted army would mean hundreds of thousands of troops available for combat
since females would now be required to be conscripted if there were a draft.
Uh, nope--whole boatload of stupid in that statement right there.
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a drafted army creates more scrutiny, more accountability, less blanket support of the support our troops slogan.
It does?
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It does?
It may come to the draft you know, 8 out of 10 girls 17 or over will be pregnant in this country, unmarried you know. [ Can't draft a pregnant woman who is sole support of a child.]
Rounding up the men and boys for the draft will be interesting, no kid in a gang wants to go into the heavy duty stuff so they smoke a J before the blood test.
Our country is so heavy into drugs that it is a wonder we can find the men and woman fit for service.
Al tho on the other hand an army akin to the Hessian's who were hopped up on hashies, sending 500 people stoned on PCP just might scare the heck out of the enemy.
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Al tho on the other hand an army akin to the Hessian's who were hopped up on hashies, sending 500 people stoned on PCP just might scare the heck out of the enemy.
Newsflash, Vesta--the insurgents in Iraq and the 'stan are all sorts of hopped up on crystal meth and other assorted goodies. Doesn't keep them from getting sent to Allah by the bushel.
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Newsflash, Vesta--the insurgents in Iraq and the 'stan are all sorts of hopped up on crystal meth and other assorted goodies. Doesn't keep them from getting sent to Allah by the bushel.
If you say so Sparky, all I know for sure is they are not drunk.
Back to the draft---how can they pull this off in today's world.?
At one time we had the ROTC in schools, we still have the Sea Cadets but not a huge amount of kids like to march and drill except for school bands and the cheerleaders.
Will we draft the illegals, convicted gang bangers, how will we handle the 5 times a day the Muslims must stop and pray.?
So we find that 6 out of every 10 persons drafted is not fit for duty, what do we do with them.? We can give them comunity service, sure and take away jobs from those too old to be drafted.? Where is the money coming from to get paint and brushes. shovels and what not for these guys to do their job.
How much comunity service is needed in your town Sparky, most of down town is clean, only thing is a few areas that private homes and apartment buildings really need to be fixed up---But that would be service free not the public but to the private sector. Say 15 young draftees cannot cut the mustard and come home to your town and to a 4 year contract for comunity service.
Besides working in the homeless shelters, there is little for 15 men/woman can do in your town to be of service. The courts are overloaded with people given a comunity service sentence all ready.
I read that in Russia, those depending on the government for money had to do community service. Sweep streets or shovel snow, tend to the ill. All this sounds good but human nature being what it is with no incentive to go up the ladder, it did not matter if they worked or not.
It got to the point that people worked only when they were not drunk.
It is no wonder the country fell apart.
I remember my Dad in 1958 or 59 looking at his short timers chain. " The military has changed, young kids off the streets of New York are coming in now and they have dope and switch blades, they have never slept in a hammock aboard a boat, or been awaken by being dumped on the deck."
Some of you guys remind me of him, the short timers and how much has changed in the military in the last 20 years.
Sparky, those 2 submariners that were either on drugs of drunk from the Sub in for overhaul that went nuts and beat a townie in his 60's half to death is just a sign of the times. The education they had, their IQ, their passing 500 mental tests for that duty meant nothing. They were thugs passing as well adjusted, calm, and someone to depend on.
I'm all for trying the draft, why not, but I do not think the military can handle these new age draftees. Unless the military goes back to the old time boot camps, Cuss and swearing every 3 words, turning these children into men and woman. It all starts there you know at the beginning of boot camp.
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If you say so Sparky, all I know for sure is they are not drunk.
And again you'd be tragically wrong. But hey what do I know...I was in Iraq and saw the insurgents we captured drunk off their ass.
And Sparky is right about the drugs too.
But hey...don't take MY eye wittness accounts of it as fact.
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HAHAHA!
vega,vesta you DUmbass. There was so much booze in Iraq you wouldn't believe it. (oh, wait...you don't).
As was explained to me by an Iraqi Brigade General, "Allah is all knowing and powerful, and he understands that man is weak. I ask his forgiveness for my weakness, and he forgives me." While we were drinking scotch.
You could go down into the Green Zone and by cheeseburgers in the front of this little store, and beer and boose in the back. The worst I ever had was canned gin.
You think they don't need a little courage before they come after us? Even if they believe in heaven, they are scared shitless of us. They are scared worse of being turned over the Iraqis.
It was worse in Afghanistan. There they have a tradition of drug use.
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HAHAHA! vega,vesta you DUmbass. There was so much booze in Iraq you wouldn't believe it. (oh, wait...you don't).
As was explained to me by an Iraqi Brigade General, "Allah is all knowing and powerful, and he understands that man is weak. I ask his forgiveness for my weakness, and he forgives me." While we were drinking scotch.
You could go down into the Green Zone and by cheeseburgers in the front of this little store, and beer and boose in the back. The worst I ever had was canned gin.
You think they don't need a little courage before they come after us? Even if they believe in heaven, they are scared shitless of us. They are scared worse of being turned over the Iraqis.
It was worse in Afghanistan. There they have a tradition of drug use.
Vesta thinks all the heroin they process in AfG is immediately exported.
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Vesta thinks all the heroin they process in AfG is immediately exported.
hell...they chew the leaves while on patrol.
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hell...they chew the leaves while on patrol.
Chewing the leaves of the Coca plant would give you a rush, poppies, not so much. It's the sap in the poppie bud before it flowers that has the "good" stuff. I've had to take classes on drug manufact in order to recognize labs.
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For vestanumbers, microcephaly would represent a learning curve.
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If you say so Sparky, all I know for sure is they are not drunk.
Back to the draft---how can they pull this off in today's world.?
Well, in today's world they have to register with selective service so they could probably use that.
At one time we had the ROTC in schools, we still have the Sea Cadets but not a huge amount of kids like to march and drill except for school bands and the cheerleaders.
ROTC has what to do with a draft? Scouts is a good preparation for military service. My son was in Civil Air Patrol from the time he was 12. There's a lot of drill but there's also O-flights (kids actually get to fly planes and gliders), search and rescues, space and aviation education, and review boards that teach young people tremendous leadership skills. By the time my son finished the cadet program he was the highest ranking cadet in the state and loved it so much he was a senior member while he was in the DEP program and finishing college.
Will we draft the illegals, convicted gang bangers, how will we handle the 5 times a day the Muslims must stop and pray.?
Why the hell would we draft illegals? Supposedly they don't even register with selective service because no one is supposed to know they're here. The key word here is ILLEGAL. In the case of gang bangers, I'd guess that would depend on the individual and how well they were able to clean up their act. One of my sons good friends (they met at boot) is from inner city Chicago and he's a damn fine Marine. As far as "the Muslims" are concerned...you DO realize there are Muslims in the service today, right? I don't think the ONLY Muslim left was the guy that just went on a rampage at Fort Hood. My guess is they could continue to handle it the way they're handling it now.
So we find that 6 out of every 10 persons drafted is not fit for duty, what do we do with them.? We can give them comunity service, sure and take away jobs from those too old to be drafted.? Where is the money coming from to get paint and brushes. shovels and what not for these guys to do their job.
Okay, I admit you've got me here! I suggest if we don't have a draft we don't have to worry about what to do with the ones that don't measure up. But I guess if they can find money for TARP, shovel-ready projects, and propping up auto workers' union jobs, they can find the money for paint, brushes, and shovels...maybe even a hammer and a wrench or two.
How much comunity service is needed in your town Sparky, most of down town is clean, only thing is a few areas that private homes and apartment buildings really need to be fixed up---But that would be service free not the public but to the private sector. Say 15 young draftees cannot cut the mustard and come home to your town and to a 4 year contract for comunity service.
Well, you must live an idyllic life because even in my VERY small town groups can find plenty of ways to be of service. Boy Scouts beautify parks, pick up trash, act as greeters at community meetings and events. Public buildings need sprucing, library books need to be put back on the shelves, fund raising drives abound to pay for summer concerts and other community events, etc. I bet there's a ton more things in bigger towns and cities.
Besides working in the homeless shelters, there is little for 15 men/woman can do in your town to be of service. The courts are overloaded with people given a comunity service sentence all ready.
Okay, let's see what we can come up with, assuming we let the criminals continue to pick up trash: I don't know a school that couldn't use more volunteers, nor a community event that doesn't need more help. How about those who don't qualify for military service can find ways to help in their own neighborhoods. I bet there's plenty of inner city housing that could use a bit of sprucing. Take some of the billions of subsidies given to slum lords and buy paints, brushes, trash bags, etc.
I read that in Russia, those depending on the government for money had to do community service. Sweep streets or shovel snow, tend to the ill. All this sounds good but human nature being what it is with no incentive to go up the ladder, it did not matter if they worked or not.
Well, see, you've solved part of the problem already! For incentive how about, no work, no welfare.
It got to the point that people worked only when they were not drunk.
It is no wonder the country fell apart.
Alcohol was a symptom, not a cause.
I remember my Dad in 1958 or 59 looking at his short timers chain. " The military has changed, young kids off the streets of New York are coming in now and they have dope and switch blades, they have never slept in a hammock aboard a boat, or been awaken by being dumped on the deck."
Well tell your dad everything is okay. To my knowledge all civilian gear (including dope and switchblades) are taken away just after they put their feet on those yellow foot prints. And I'm quite sure the military is well equipped to to teach new recruits to sleep in barracks or on a SHIP (a boat is something you fish from and ski behind). As for being dumped on a deck, I'm pretty sure only the Coast Guard, Navy, and Marines generally have to worry about a deck dump. The Army and Air Force, not so much. Still, I'm pretty sure if they made it through boot camp, they could probably handle standing on the deck of a ship.
Some of you guys remind me of him, the short timers and how much has changed in the military in the last 20 years.
Huh?
Sparky, those 2 submariners that were either on drugs of drunk from the Sub in for overhaul that went nuts and beat a townie in his 60's half to death is just a sign of the times. The education they had, their IQ, their passing 500 mental tests for that duty meant nothing. They were thugs passing as well adjusted, calm, and someone to depend on.
Huh? (But I repeat myself).
I'm all for trying the draft, why not, but I do not think the military can handle these new age draftees. Unless the military goes back to the old time boot camps, Cuss and swearing every 3 words, turning these children into men and woman. It all starts there you know at the beginning of boot camp.
We tried a draft. Didn't work. The military doesn't want them. As for the "new age" draftees, as long as they go into the Air Force Academy they should be okay since they now have a rock circle to worship around. How does cussing and swearing turn someone into a man? Granted, I've heard some pretty foul things come out of the mouths of Marines (usually followed by "sorry mom") but they're already men.
I think I'm dumber now because I think I lost a few brain cells reading this.
Cindie
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A draft is a stupid idea for the kind of military we have, the money we have available to spend on it, and the kind of threats we face. Set up civilian labor battalions or any other stupid Socialist bullshit you want to, but don't try to mail the bill for it to DOD, because it doesn't do a damned thing for national defense.