The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: CC27 on November 24, 2009, 02:24:19 PM
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Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And for their trouble, three of the SEALs, members of the Navy's elite commando unit, are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.
The three have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral's mast — and requested a trial by court-martial.
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.
Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html
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I suppose we could just stop taking prisoners...
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I suppose we could just stop taking prisoners...
Or, better yet, we come home and deal with the bullshit in Washington.
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Or, better yet, we come home and deal with the bullshit in Washington.
Definitely, but I still don't want to take any prisoners... :cheersmate:
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I suppose we could just stop taking prisoners...
Probably less paper work and legal bullshit to put up with if they did.... :thatsright:
All lawyers and politicians are nothing but a bunch of worthless PC asswipes.... :mental:
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:censored:
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Amazing. Another attempt to hamstring our service men and women.
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Cases like this get an awful lot of servicepeople killed.
Punishing warriors for doing their jobs?
Wow.
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:censored: :censored: :censored: :bird: :bird: :bird:
Every day that this Oministration is in power equates to three or four that this country is going to have to recover from them.
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Probably less paper work and legal bullshit to put up with if they did.... :thatsright:
All lawyers and politicians are nothing but a bunch of worthless PC asswipes.... :mental:
Don't be a total dumbshit, the decision to take UCMJ action is purely the commander's and nobody else's, as much as they love to pole it off on the JAGs when they take heat for making stupid decisions. Lawyers in the military can only advise, the commander decides whether to take action or not. This is some damned admiral's stupid decision, trying to be too PC for anyone's good.
...And I'm all in favor of not trying real hard at all to take these targets alive, but to concentrate on taking them down hard and clean ('Clean' in the sense of not blowing up all the intel-value material along with them, that is). Their laptops, papers, and lower-level henchmen will provide all the intel value we need out of them without having to screw around with a bunch of 'Law and Order' police-style blessed-by-the-domestic-courts interrogation bullshit.
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If you don't think this is politics-driven, Tanker, I don't know what to tell you. This should NEVER happen. It's war, Damnit, and I know you know something about it. This is the environment the left has created. If this was "just this commander's discretion", which I don't agree with, he should be f'n relieved of duty. Personally, I think it's a damn CYA and he's leaving the SEALS on the proverbial battlefield to die alone.
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He was resisting being captured. I'd say the Seals showed great restrain in only punching him.
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I think we need to take up a collection to buy Saturday night specials, so our servicemen have a weapon to "drop" in order to plead self deffence! I mean c'mon, it works for the FBI!
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Good GOD! We used to shoot these mofuggas! Now we're punishing our own because they busted his lip?
This country is f'n DOOMED! You wanna make it a police action, send in the f'n Iraqi police. After a platoon of them are killed, and you figure out the only way to get the douchebag is with a military operation, don't f'n bitch about his appearance when he lands on the floor in front of you, hopefully head first. :censored:
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That the three are telling their chain of command to go **** themselves, that they'll take their chances with a court martial, is pretty telling. There's a principle at stake here and these three guys are not going to roll over and take the high hard one without a fight.
I'm betting it won't be a general court. It'll be either a summary or special court.
I can't recall all the niceties, but it involves a panel of members or to be tried by military judge alone. Something like that, anyway.
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UPDATE:
Obama has come out and stated, "I don't know all the details, but the SEALS acted stupidly"
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UPDATE:
Obama has come out and stated, "I don't know all the details, but the SEALS acted stupidly"
Does that mean a beer summit is pending?
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Does that mean a beer summit is pending?
Never can tell with this idiot.
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WTF has happened to the leadership in our Military? This is just icing on the cake after that asshole Hasan shot up Ft. Hood, and the powers that be knew all along he was a frikkin' terrorist!
WTF?
Maybe we ought to give 'em all a Bondsman License! We don't have to be "politically correct" when we hall assholes to jail! They take our word for it! Amazing that our Commanders don't believe our Elites! Just ****in' amazing!
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WTF has happened to the leadership in our Military? This is just icing on the cake after that asshole Hasan shot up Ft. Hood, and the powers that be knew all along he was a frikkin' terrorist!
WTF?
Maybe we ought to give 'em all a Bondsman License! We don't have to be "politically correct" when we hall assholes to jail! They take our word for it! Amazing that our Commanders don't believe our Elites! Just ****in' amazing!
As Euph often says, the military is not absent of social engineering and politics. It's f'ed up and will get troops killed.
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If you don't think this is politics-driven, Tanker, I don't know what to tell you. This should NEVER happen. It's war, Damnit, and I know you know something about it. This is the environment the left has created. If this was "just this commander's discretion", which I don't agree with, he should be f'n relieved of duty. Personally, I think it's a damn CYA and he's leaving the SEALS on the proverbial battlefield to die alone.
I couldn't agree more, and this is the time when GOOD military leadership should step up to the plate and back the SEALs. This looks a whole lot like some flag officer sucking Democrat Congressional ass to make sure he doesn't get sidelined on his next star. Whoever is calling the shots, he needs to grow a pair and stand up for his men, even if it means he kisses off the extra star doing it. No promotion is worth wiping your ass with your own integrity. But, it ain't the JAG driving the train, it is the COMMANDER who makes the call on UCMJ action, up or down, from NJP/Mast/Article 15 all the way to GCM.
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Prisoners can't whine about a fat lip if they have a cut throat, just sayin'.
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If you don't think this is politics-driven, Tanker, I don't know what to tell you. This should NEVER happen. It's war, Damnit, and I know you know something about it. This is the environment the left has created. If this was "just this commander's discretion", which I don't agree with, he should be f'n relieved of duty. Personally, I think it's a damn CYA and he's leaving the SEALS on the proverbial battlefield to die alone.
Amen.
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Good GOD! We used to shoot these mofuggas! Now we're punishing our own because they busted his lip?
This country is f'n DOOMED! You wanna make it a police action, send in the f'n Iraqi police. After a platoon of them are killed, and you figure out the only way to get the douchebag is with a military operation, don't f'n bitch about his appearance when he lands on the floor in front of you, hopefully head first. :censored:
Isn't PCism wonderful?
:banghead:
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CSUPQ7EpU_4/SKXWAoz1R-I/AAAAAAAAaZI/zYUCsqp-s2o/S1600-R/democrat-white-flag+oxy.jpg)
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A ****ing terrorist gets a split lip and complains about it? What a muzzy *****.
This is really just unfriggen believable. :censored:
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A ******* terrorist gets a split lip and complains about it? What a muzzy *****.
This is really just unfriggen believable. :censored:
It's gonna cause one of two things to happen. Soldiers are going to commit REAL war crimes by killing the terrorists they capture...or become so paralyzed by fear of getting courts martialed for any bomb throwing SOB that so much as stubs his toe...that the person they are trying to detain ends up killing THEM instead.
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that the person they are trying to detain ends up killing THEM instead.
That's the unintended consequence here...a blink or a hesitation can mean death.
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?????????????????????
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HFS. What the **** is going on here?
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Ity's enough to make you want to punch somebody and give'em a bloody lip.
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Starting with the officer/politician pushing this punishment in the first place.
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I think that once the enemy gets word of this they are going to get a great laugh and plan more attacks because they figure nothing is going tohappen to them anyway
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Y'know, in the old days, a commander might do something like this and then either acquit the Soldier at the 15 hearing or just never actually process the 2627 after the ass-chewing, which effectively shortstops anyone higher jumping in to take over and screw them. But these days, if I was in one of the SEAL's shoes, I would have no trust or confidence whatsoever that any flag officer was looking out for me or the good of the service in that kind of way.
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Article 15's refused by the SEALs. That the charges were brought on any level is insanity. The OFFICER IS A DUPE or a Martinet.We are at war' These jerkwaters need to re-read "The Art of War" every freeking morning before they are alowed to eat and to watch/listen to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQU
a few times too.
Better yet, Barry should face a firefight in Afganistan/Iraq , in which the hostile fire is close enough to "pop
' as it goes by.
bARRY AND CREW COULD F UP a wet dearm.
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This is what we get for electing someone who has NEVER been in the military, even more, been to war. Our country is under attack from the Progressives. Perhaps we need to fight back at the polls?? All we conservatives can do is put the blame where it belongs, on the rest of the country. Our military is being manipulated by our enemies through our politicians.November 2nd, 2010 can't come soon enough.
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Who brought up these charges....the attorney general, Holder??
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Who brought up these charges....the attorney general, Holder??
Not likely. The original story was incorrect in referring to an Article 15 as an Admiral's Mast--in VERY limited circumstances, officers can receive NJP via Admiral's Mast--typically enlisted are given Captain's Mast.
If I had to guess (and it's just a guess), this thing would likely have been dropped at XOI (Executive Officer's Inquiry--not necessarily an automatic either) had someone either at the Pentagon or thereabouts not said something. It's highly unlikely someone in DOJ said or did anything, and if they did, they need the white-hot light of day shone upon them.
Even if the court-martial proceedings are dropped, these guy's careers are over in the Navy.
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We should be giving these guys medals.
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We should be giving these guys medals.
Given the fact that SEALs being such a tight community, and a couple of these guys that were killed in Fallujah were ex-SEALs, the fact that this terrorist POS isn't at room temperature says a LOT for the discipline and restraint they have.
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True, indeed, I'd have shot the sob.
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What next? Reading Miranda rights to enemy combatants? Oh. I forgot. We already have to do that now at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
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To paraphrase a TV show "Just Shoot Them!" .
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That is such BULLSHIT! WTF is happening with our military? My husband was a corpsman in the Navy so this really chaps our asses when we see the Seals being treated like crap for doing their f***ing jobs!! So the savage got a busted lip. BFD! He is lucky that is all he got.
I never thought I would say this but I am becoming real disgusted with this country. I am sick of that jackass in the White House and I am done with the liberals destroying everything that makes America great.
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I never thought I would say this but I am becoming real disgusted with this country.
Go figure. It took something to make Michelle 0Bama proud of this country to disgust millions of other Americans.
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Not likely. The original story was incorrect in referring to an Article 15 as an Admiral's Mast--in VERY limited circumstances, officers can receive NJP via Admiral's Mast--typically enlisted are given Captain's Mast.
If I had to guess (and it's just a guess), this thing would likely have been dropped at XOI (Executive Officer's Inquiry--not necessarily an automatic either) had someone either at the Pentagon or thereabouts not said something. It's highly unlikely someone in DOJ said or did anything, and if they did, they need the white-hot light of day shone upon them.
Even if the court-martial proceedings are dropped, these guy's careers are over in the Navy.
I heard an interesting point of view from a person who called into the Mark Levin show....a person who is an ex Navy Seals...he stated he had inside information of the Maersk pirate confrontration a few months ago. According to him, the Seals did not follow the Rules of Engagement when they saved the captain from the ship. According to this source, the White House was pissed the Seals took their shot when they were told to stand down. After the incident, the President issued the statement that he gave the order...but in reality he never did.
He said many in the Navy think this is payback for not following the Rules of Engagement on that day. The caller didn't sound like he was f.o.s..but who knows.
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Sorry Hawk, but I need something a little more credible than a caller into a radio show claiming to be a SEAL. Lots of people claim to be SEALs when they really aren't.
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name, rank, and seriaL NUMBER WHEN GIVING UP CLASSIFIED INFO. ON THE RADIO? Don't think so. Accept or reject the info as you think likely.
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Sorry Hawk, but I need something a little more credible than a caller into a radio show claiming to be a SEAL. Lots of people claim to be SEALs when they really aren't.
I know, I took it with a grain of salt as well...but it sounded like a plausible theory.
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I know, I took it with a grain of salt as well...but it sounded like a plausible theory.
I received a fundamentally-similar version of 'the inside story' in email at the time. I can't and don't personally vouch for the source, all I can say is it came through a network of military acquaintances. According to that version, the White House was caught in a dither loop and sending a hostage negotiator when the SEALs pushed the rules on 'Imminent threat' to go ahead and execute, knowing they'd be told yet again to hold fire if they took the time to ask.
The 'real' Maersk story is quite plausible. That doesn't mean it's actually true, of course. Its relation to the current situation as 'Payback' is a lot less plausible, at least in any kind of direct way, though I cannot say it is absolutely impossible.
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Go figure. It took something to make Michelle 0Bama proud of this country to disgust millions of other Americans.
Well said. :II:
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According to him, the Seals did not follow the Rules of Engagement
that was on Fox- do not remember the show. So, I assume that it is true or Fox would not have it on.
As for our Seal's-- God Bless them and Bam could kiss my left big toe (tried to keep it clean :))
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From everything that's come out since they decided to take this to a Courts Martial...it sounds like the bloody lip could have come from the ANA soldiers they handed this turn over to first rather than from a SEAL.
Only a split lip doesn't seem like their style if you get my meaning.
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From everything that's come out since they decided to take this to a Courts Martial...it sounds like the bloody lip could have come from the ANA soldiers they handed this turn over to first rather than from a SEAL.
Only a split lip doesn't seem like their style if you get my meaning.
Yeah; if the Teams were gonna 'rough you up', you'd have to be made of granite to walk away from that encounter with ONLY a split lip.
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If what is now being said about the ROE is fact, take actual fire before engaging, break off engagement to protect "civilians" in the fire zone, then the source of these rules has lost sight of the nature of the enemy. The islamofascists are not civilians or orddinary criminals, they are WAR CRIMINALS.
Under the rules of war, nothing like that is required. In fact, those acting outside the rules of war are fully responsible for any and all consequences. WE DAMNED WELL SHOULD start reacting and responding to any and all incidents placing the blame where it legally is rather than leaving the propaganda to the islamofascists and the completely mad "anti-war" crowd.
Frankly, were it my decision for the ROE, any masked man under arms would be killed on sight. Anyone at all caring an area weapon (rpg, etc) not in full uniform would be shot on sight. Anyone using civilians as human shields would not be taken alive, surrendered they would face summery execution.
Turncoats, spies and voluntary surrenders would be well treated. They and their famlies transported out of harms way , and a very good wage, for the enviornment, paid to the family, plus sa life insurance payment should the "breadwinner" get zapped.
If we fail tto treat this as the war that it is, we face consequences that could dwarf 8-11.
I
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If what is now being said about the ROE is fact, take actual fire before engaging, break off engagement to protect "civilians" in the fire zone, then the source of these rules has lost sight of the nature of the enemy. The islamofascists are not civilians or orddinary criminals, they are WAR CRIMINALS.
Under the rules of war, nothing like that is required. In fact, those acting outside the rules of war are fully responsible for any and all consequences. WE DAMNED WELL SHOULD start reacting and responding to any and all incidents placing the blame where it legally is rather than leaving the propaganda to the islamofascists and the completely mad "anti-war" crowd.
Frankly, were it my decision for the ROE, any masked man under arms would be killed on sight. Anyone at all caring an area weapon (rpg, etc) not in full uniform would be shot on sight. Anyone using civilians as human shields would not be taken alive, surrendered they would face summery execution.
Turncoats, spies and voluntary surrenders would be well treated. They and their famlies transported out of harms way , and a very good wage, for the enviornment, paid to the family, plus sa life insurance payment should the "breadwinner" get zapped.
If we fail tto treat this as the war that it is, we face consequences that could dwarf
Yes, I just don't understand what is going on here.
When does this overflow into the civilian sector.?
Damn this country is getting really spooky.
We are in a war that sends our men/women into the line of fire and their family's have to put up a stink to get their kids the best in personal protection, the best arms and weapons.
We have seen how we treat our border patroll, if a drug dealer who is armed is caught crossing our border firing at our people, if we shoot them in the butt we go to jail for 10 years.
Say Guys I am just an old woman who worked at Oceania Base in VA. and saw with my own lying ideas the training SEALS must have. I do not know if qualifications for the Seals have been lowered but back then to be a Seal one had to know at the very least 2 languages. They were trained as spies and in filter a place and blend in as a local.
An episode like this one is so far out of believability I have a problem with computing what is going on.
Men are sent out by their Commander to find, capture, a mortal enemy to the USA. The men are trained to do this procedure using the LEAST force necessary.
They do the mission accomplished, and the Commander now has a problem. The prisoner has a split lip. WTF. are they going to blame the Seals for his hemorrhoids.?
Nope this bodes no good, not for our armed forces or our civilian police.
Creeper and really strange times we are going into.
Is all this crap by design, surely the Pentegon is outraged, or are they.?
I see it all now, Town police are confronted by a loony coming at them with a knife. They shoot him but he survived to sue the police for using unnecessary force, get the police that shot him fired and he walks off with a bank account. Society's thinking, there were 3 officers present, 2 could have tackled him, the 3 rd. had no reason to fire his weapon. SIGH--------I am sure this scenario has allready come to past.
Just what the Hell kind of society are we headed into.
My Prayers go out to the men that after all that work, training, education, who followed orders and delivered, that must now be so disillusioned with their Comanders that their lives will never be the same.
BTW, what is the name of the Comanders that have pushed this travesty of Justice.?
Just for an intellectual moment, what if George Washington had to deal with a country like ours today.?
Or had the mind set of Obama.
Damn we win wars with strength, blood and guts. Who ever heard of any country in the history of the world that did not back up its fighters.?
Where and what Army ever punished its troops for doing what they are told to.?
Thank God I am not 16 years old in to days society, I tell you the few years I have left on Earth are going to be hard enough.