The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on September 22, 2009, 04:48:23 PM
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Nuclear Unicorn (183 posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:17 PM
Original message
Gen. McChrystal Threatening to Resign Over Afghanistan
In Kabul, some members of McChrystal's staff said they don't understand why Obama called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" but still hasn't given them the resources they need to turn things around quickly.
Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy.
"Yes, he'll be a good soldier, but he will only go so far," a senior official in Kabul said. "He'll hold his ground. He's not going to bend to political pressure."
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/v-print/story/75702.html
If we're leaving we need to do it fast before this man can try to embarrass the president.
Orwellian_Ghost (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. I say
put the McPistol on the front line. Let him fight it out.
He's SpecOps...far superior to anything your shitbags have accomplished.
rubberducky (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is this like a temper tantrem General style?
"If men had to have babies, abortion would be a sacrament" Gloria Steinem
bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't take news leaks seriously
Unrec.
It's about getting those pooh bellied middle aged white guys at NASACR races voting Democratic.
Forkboy (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yeah, those Pentagon Papers were rubbish in the 70's.
And Plame's name being leaked to the press? Nothing to see there. Best not to even think about such things.
How do you hide from something you have found?
KansDem (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:22 PM
Original message
Hey, McChrystal! We've been in a meatgrinder before...
Remember Vietnam? You all thought you had a infinite number of American draftees to run through the oligarchy's meatgrinder. Turns out that wasn't so...
So, STF up and do your job!
GOP - "Grand Obstructionist Party"
sendero (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good...
..... maybe then we can get out of there
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. no he's not
Media Matters points out that the RW blogs are spinning it the way you're spinning it (coincidentally i'm sure), but in fact McChrystal never said anything about resigning.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909220030
Nuclear Unicorn (183 posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually I pulled my quote from McClatchy...
...and it is exactly as MMFA reports it.
Still, it's serious thing to consider it can't all be bluff.
Maybe Obama should fire him for allowing the report to leak that would certainly keep the general from pulling any stunts, bluffed or otherwise.
I don't have fun, I AM FUN. People have me.
sandnsea (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Could you get the quote please
Because I don't see it in that article.
In lieu of flowers, the Kennedy family requests you consider a contribution for educational programming at the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate
Nuclear Unicorn (183 posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Of course, here goes:
The section I pasted in the OP said:
Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy.
Original link in the OP.
The MMFA article linked above (thank-you! ) also shows the same:
The problem is, as noted by Mudville Gazette, what McClatchy actually wrote is this:
Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy .
So, MMFA has the correct quote but I'm wondering if 3 people in Afghanistan and DC saying the same thing isn't a whispering campaign designed to nudge (extort?) President Obama. I think leaking classified documents is a firing offense and would pre-empt any effort by rogues to embarrass the President.
I don't have fun, I AM FUN. People have me.
FiveGoodMen (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. What sort of victory are we supposedly working toward in Afghanistan?
They say we need more troops to get it done, but what is it?
Will we kill everyone in Afghanistan?
Will we kill just enough so that no one there hates Americans?
Will we ...
I give up; what are we supposed to accomplish?
We've been had.
sandnsea (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. You don't run a war on gossip
I do not even know why anybody would give this shit credence - except to help embarrass the President. With a capital P.
In lieu of flowers, the Kennedy family requests you consider a contribution for educational programming at the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate
karynnj (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. The fact is the US assigns the role of deciding policy to the CIVILIAN leadership
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 09:39 PM by karynnj
There are different strategies and each has serious adherents that argue that that strategy gives the greatest chance of success. McChrystal is a strong adherent of a counterinsurgency strategy. There are others who warn that an outside country can not be successful with this type of strategy if there is a corrupt unpopular government (as in both Afghanistan and Vietnam).
McChrystal is either arrogant or deliberately trying to deceive in stating ONLY his approach could win. Given the stated goals, a counter terrorism approach - or a counter terrorism approach coupled with aid and help (maybe provided by the allies) to develop infrastructure and institutions are alternative solutions.
Here is a link to an excellent SFRC hearing last week on three strategies. Click on the title to get the video or read the statements by the experts and Kerry and Lugar. http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2009/hrg090916p.html
As to getting out, even Feingold denied that was a reasonable idea.
Although this is not a direct quote, there is likely some truth to the troop request - the person most alligned to that strtegy at the SFRC hearing spoke of 400,000 to 600,000 troops - some Afghan or allies, not all American.
The strange thing with teh right's comments is they did not see a problem with Bush overruling Shinseki.
"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Sign up now to support a deadline to get out of Iraq setadeadline.com
Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe they'll replace him with Westmoreland..or Abrams...to find the light at the end of the tunnel.
Maybe this idiot "leaked" the memo so he'd get shitcanned before the lost war is pronounced lost.
"Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead." - Arundhati Roy
BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is Cheney's work.
Obama appointed him, dolt.
kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. McCrystal needs to STFU and do as he's told. He has been given
orders by his CIC which he has no business questioning. If he doesn't like said orders, the only thing we should hear next is that he has in fact resigned. Not crap like this in the MSM.
I thought you people hated Bush for supposedly not listening to the generals who told him to "go heavy" into Iraq?
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This sums up the military knowhow of the DUmp . . .
(http://craigpages3.100megsfree5.com/GIFFile/FrenchSpecialForces.jpg)
Ever since TiT was tombstoned, that is . . .
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This sums up the military knowhow of the DUmp . . .
(http://craigpages3.100megsfree5.com/GIFFile/FrenchSpecialForces.jpg)
Ever since TiT was tombstoned, that is . . .
Actually, I think that photo sums up TiTtyboy's military knowhow.
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Amazing how their opinion of how General Officers should behave when the President is concerned has changed since January.
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They hate everyone, most especially their own self.
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I know it is only about 4,800 but just think how much better the world would be without them. Bet it would make a noticeable dent in the deficit too.
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See, I'm MISSING TiT's unique perspective on these types of threads. He'd always be great for some entertainment here.
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See, I'm MISSING TiT's unique perspective on these types of threads. He'd always be great for some entertainment here.
I thought that's what we had Lleu and his sock puppet for?
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I thought that's what we had Lleu and his sock puppet for?
I think Lleu has left the building.
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I think Lleu has left the building.
He's probably printing every scrap he can grab from HuffBlo for use when he links up with BadCat this weekend.
Either that, or coming up with a reason excuse to chicken out of meeting up with BC.
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You know what??
How about we bring the troops home before Obama gets them all killed?
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This puts the military in an ugly place. McCrystal's predecessor was relieved because the Oministration wanted a more aggressive counterinsurgency strategy rather than losing slowly, now they telling McCrystal to shut up and lose slowly. The militarily-clueless politicians involved don't understand the accelerating effect dooming the mission has on failure, either. It heartens the enemy because it is an acknowledgement that they are winning and only have to hang on and avoid catastrophic defeat. At the same time it saps the will to fight of the Blue forces, because nobody who cares about his Soldiers more than his career wants to take risk their lives in an already-written-off lost cause.
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KansDem (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:22 PM
Original message
Hey, McChrystal! We've been in a meatgrinder before...
Remember Vietnam? You all thought you had a infinite number of American draftees to run through the oligarchy's meatgrinder. Turns out that wasn't so...
So, STF up and do your job!
GOP - "Grand Obstructionist Party"
Which Party got us into Viet-Nam again? :whatever:
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Which Party got us into Viet-Nam again? :whatever:
The CIA, the neocons and the Jews, of course.
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Which Party got us into Viet-Nam again? :whatever:
Actually, I think it was Ike and the republicans that got our foot caught in the door but it was democrats that flung the door open.
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DUmmies, maybe you could consider that the Military has a much closer view of what is actually going on on the ground, so they have a more complete perspective of what is required to win the war than you do behind your computer screen.
FiveGoodMen (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-22-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. What sort of victory are we supposedly working toward in Afghanistan?
They say we need more troops to get it done, but what is it?
Will we kill everyone in Afghanistan?
Will we kill just enough so that no one there hates Americans?
Will we ...
I give up; what are we supposed to accomplish?
We've been had.
Five Good Men, victory in Afghanistan would be helping the Afghanis create a true democracy that is strong enough to stand up to the Taliban and the like. You know, so that women can be allow to work outside the home, girls can be allowed to attend school, women can actually see a doctor, those sorts of things. Our soldiers are making it save for schools and hospitals to be built, in fact, they are actively working on those sorts of projects. What have you done for the people of Afghanistan lately?
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DUmmies, maybe you could consider that the Military has a much closer view of what is actually going on on the ground, so they have a more complete perspective of what is required to win the war than you do behind your computer screen.
Five Good Men, victory in Afghanistan would be helping the Afghanis create a true democracy that is strong enough to stand up to the Taliban and the like. You know, so that women can be allow to work outside the home, girls can be allowed to attend school, women can actually see a doctor, those sorts of things. Our soldiers are making it save for schools and hospitals to be built, in fact, they are actively working on those sorts of projects. What have you done for the people of Afghanistan lately?
All this is well and good but it is pointless.
We are dealing with a culture than cannot accomodate what we are attempting to accomplish. We either change their culture--forcibly--or we concede that they cannot be "saved". Even the former will be difficult and probably impermenant as their culture arose from their physical environment.
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Actually, I think it was Ike and the republicans that got our foot caught in the door but it was democrats that flung the door open.
We had a nowhere military assistance mission there, as we did pretty much everywhere else in the area, but it wasn't until the Kennedy-Johnson administration that there was even a first KIA and we pulled the dependents out.
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All this is well and good but it is pointless.
We are dealing with a culture than cannot accomodate what we are attempting to accomplish. We either change their culture--forcibly--or we concede that they cannot be "saved". Even the former will be difficult and probably impermenant as their culture arose from their physical environment.
Personally, I believe that culture can change eventually, but choice, but that may be because I'm young and naive. :tongue: Afghanistan used to have educated women, even women doctors, but the Taliban put an end to that. It may not reach Western standards, but it can improve. Democracy was dead overall for a large part of World History, and it will take longer for some areas to adapt to it, but I believe it can be done.
Out of curiosity, do you believe that we still have a purpose in Afghanistan, and what do you think we should be trying to accomplish?
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The CIA, the neocons and the Jews, of course.
I know you mean that as a joke, but I've been made aware of a very disturbing and suspicious fact:
When the first American forces arrived in Viet Nam, they found hardly a single Jew in the entire country.
That's right. Immediately prior to the start of combat, they had all disappeared.
You can take that for what it's worth.
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Personally, I believe that culture can change eventually, but choice, but that may be because I'm young and naive. :tongue: Afghanistan used to have educated women, even women doctors, but the Taliban put an end to that. It may not reach Western standards, but it can improve. Democracy was dead overall for a large part of World History, and it will take longer for some areas to adapt to it, but I believe it can be done.
Out of curiosity, do you believe that we still have a purpose in Afghanistan, and what do you think we should be trying to accomplish?
A purpose in Afghanistan? Yes
Keep in mind: It took the British more than 200 years to pacify Wales. The welsh were conducting a guerrilla campaign that the Brits couldn't end in a stand-up fight. They won by building a successive series of castles and establishing trade communities around them to entice the welsh into more civilized norms. Once an area settled down the brits built the next line of fortresses inward on an ever-shrinking ring. (The Art of War in the Western World, --Archer Jones)
Alas, the brits were a monarchy, not a constitutional republic, nor did they have to contend with an enemy that was being supported by and ha safe haven in regional superpowers as the Taliban enjoy with Iran and Pakistan. We don't have 200 years and we don't have the stones to do to them what we did to Japan after WW2.
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Actually, I think it was Ike and the republicans that got our foot caught in the door but it was democrats that flung the door open.
WRONG! It was George W. Bush that did it.
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WRONG! It was George W. Bush that did it.[/quote
I think not.
Again, it was the Jews.
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Too bad Afghanistan wasn't populated with Jews and Christians...we'd be carpet bombing them while the DUmmies celebrated like it was a gay freedom day parade.
Cindie
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We had a nowhere military assistance mission there, as we did pretty much everywhere else in the area, but it wasn't until the Kennedy-Johnson administration that there was even a first KIA and we pulled the dependents out.
Too bad I wasn't in charge of VietNam... I would have lined the troops up on the border with tanks and flame throwers and then followed the carpet bombers in. We would go from the border as far North as possible without messing with Chinese soil. North Viet Nam would have been turned into a wasteland. WHich is a good thing.
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Do these DUmmies realize that Obama put this guy in there, and tasked him with reporting back on the situation? If anyone needs to STFU and do his job, it's the Commander in Chief.
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WRONG! It was George W. Bush that did it.
The subject was the Viet Nam war.
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The subject was the Viet Nam war.
One of the DUmb**** Precepts, it seems, is that George W. Bush is responsible for anything bad that has happened since the Civil War.
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One of the DUmb**** Precepts, it seems, is that George W. Bush is responsible for anything bad that has happened since the Civil War.
[/quote
I believe the Atlanta and Austin DUmmies do still blame him for "The War of BFEE Aggression."
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I believe the Atlanta and Austin DUmmies do still blame him for "The War of BFEE Aggression."
:thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright:
My bad.
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Me and George Bush have a lot in common....we both get blamed for everything that goes wrong.