The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on October 13, 2015, 10:24:28 AM
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brewens (4,210 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027255830
2. We always knew the Dan Rather story was true, they just got suckered by fake
documents. They just happen to "lose" the real proof. Coulda happened to anyone, especially the CIA chief's kid!
The new truther movement is screaming their pathetic heads off over rather's new fictional movie.
Turbineguy (20,622 posts)
6. The original documents went missing. Pinched from the file. The ones used were reconstructed by the Secretary based on her memory. This was never in question
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::)
wait for the money shot:
trof (46,590 posts)
I was in the same Air National Guard program as George W. Bush.
Here's how it worked:
Although I was a few years ahead of him, Bush and I joined the ANG under the exact same program. It was available only to those who wanted to become pilots.
Requirements:
1. 2 years of college, minimum
2. Pass 8 hours of written tests (Air Force Officer Qualification Test and Flight Aptitude Test)
3. Pass flight physical exam
4. Pass background security check by FBI for 'Secret' clearance.
If you managed all that, you would be sworn in as a 2nd Lt. (Temporary).
No basic training, no boot camp, no nothing.
BOOM! You're an officer.
Your temporary commission was in effect until you successfully completed the 55 week USAF Pilot Training Program, at which time you got your wings and it became a permanent (reserve) commission.
After the year+ of training at a regular air force base, you returned to your local guard base and got checked out in whatever aircraft they were flying.
In return for this, when you signed on the dotted line and took the oath back at the beginning, you committed to six years of service following pilot training.
You agreed to maintain your flying proficiency, logging the required hours of flight time each month, and fulfilling all training requirements.
Oh yeah, you'd also go off to war if the president decided he needed you.
Promotions:
If you kept your nose clean, you made 1st Lt. after three years.
Two years after that you pinned on Captain's bars.
All you had to do was not screw up.
Bush did NOT fulfill his service requirement and was, in effect, AWOL.
It's glaring.
His highest rank was 1st Lt.
He admittedly did not maintain flying proficiency, so he was utterly useless to his guard unit, and in direct violation of the contract he had signed.
Oooo...
where is the proof? where were you in 2004 to support this 'story?'
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Turbineguy (20,622 posts)
6. The original documents went missing. Pinched from the file. The ones used were reconstructed by the Secretary based on her memory. This was never in question
Every court of law would accept that. ::)
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I'll give "trof" about 65% credit. He left out - and may be ignorant of - some salient facts that, ummmmm, complicate his conclusions.
trof omits the fact that GWB volunteered for a program in which F-102 pilots from TANG did a tour in Vietnam. he was turned down for two reasons: insufficient flying hours (i.e. he was relatively new); the F-102s weren't suitable for the air war in Vietnam.
trof omits the fact that, toward the end of GWB's time in the ANG, TANG transitioned from F-102s to F-101s, a different bird from a different manufacturer. Between GWB being near the end of his stint and there being many pilots coming home from Vietnam with far greater experience, TANG was not going to train GWB on a different bird.
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Once a popular lie gets into the DUmmie mind it becomes truth and that truth becomes reality.
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I'll give "trof" about 65% credit. He left out - and may be ignorant of - some salient facts that, ummmmm, complicate his conclusions.
trof omits the fact that GWB volunteered for a program in which F-102 pilots from TANG did a tour in Vietnam. he was turned down for two reasons: insufficient flying hours (i.e. he was relatively new); the F-102s weren't suitable for the air war in Vietnam.
trof omits the fact that, toward the end of GWB's time in the ANG, TANG transitioned from F-102s to F-101s, a different bird from a different manufacturer. Between GWB being near the end of his stint and there being many pilots coming home from Vietnam with far greater experience, TANG was not going to train GWB on a different bird.
According to Wiki's (yeah, I know) entry on the F-102, 14 were lost in the Vietnam War. It appears that 4 were destroyed due to ground attacks on their bases; 4 were due to engine failure; one collided with an RF-4 Phantom II on the ground; one on a ferry mision (TF-102); one during a night landing; one shot down just after takeoff by enemy small-arms fire; one shot down while providing CAS; and the last one by a missile fired from a MiG-21. They were rotated back to the US in 1968.
I had heard that the Delta Dagger, or "Deuce," was a notoriously difficult aircraft to fly. The delta control surfaces had a lot to do with this, no doubt.
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That reminds me -- remember when President Bush landed that plane (I think on a carrier)?
I do remember thinking how cool that was.
Sadly for me, I love milcraft but am afraid of heights AND nearsighted.
Maybe after I retire I can take flying lessons -- I have 3+ million air miles and I have been able to overcome my fear a few times to take helicopter rides in Hawaii.
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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 01:07 PM
Star Member lark (4,449 posts)
47. His grandfather was convicted of treason and kept his senate spot.
Bushes know no rules, they do what they want and the msm and the rest of the RW pols cover up for them.
Funny how actual history seems to have missed this.
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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #1)
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 01:07 PM
Star Member lark (4,449 posts)
47. His grandfather was convicted of treason and kept his senate spot.
Bushes know no rules, they do what they want and the msm and the rest of the RW pols cover up for them.
Funny how actual history seems to have missed this.
Must have sourced it from Prison Planet.
Per the Anti-Defamation League, hardly a fan of Nazis:
Rumors about the alleged Nazi "ties" of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated.
Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/cyber-safety/c/internet-rumors/prescott-bushs-alleged-nazi.html
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According to Wiki's (yeah, I know) entry on the F-102, 14 were lost in the Vietnam War. It appears that 4 were destroyed due to ground attacks on their bases; 4 were due to engine failure; one collided with an RF-4 Phantom II on the ground; one on a ferry mision (TF-102); one during a night landing; one shot down just after takeoff by enemy small-arms fire; one shot down while providing CAS; and the last one by a missile fired from a MiG-21. They were rotated back to the US in 1968.
I had heard that the Delta Dagger, or "Deuce," was a notoriously difficult aircraft to fly. The delta control surfaces had a lot to do with this, no doubt.
I do remember seeing some in pics from an airbase there, probably Da Nang. But the deltas, F102 and the improved F106, were built as dedicated interceptors, the ones in Viet Nam were really only there for defense of SVN airspace from northern intrusions, which never materialized. Their hard points were intended for drop tanks and missile rails. The entire philosophy of both plane designs was to get as far out and as far up as possible to intercept manned bombers, exhaust their ordnance, and then run like hell for home.
They had a glide ratio about like a triangular piece of tile, so maintaining control of them at low speed (I.e. landing) was as best I recall more dependent on maintaining and managing engine thrust, and less responsive to aerodynamic control surfaces, and so at higher speed, compared to other aircraft in the inventory.
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Turbineguy (20,622 posts)
6. The original documents went missing. Pinched from the file. The ones used were reconstructed by the Secretary based on her memory. This was never in question
Hadn't heard this bit of ludicrosity before. before moving onto it's most glaring points of stupidity, I would point out that it bears some analogy to the so-called Downing Street Memo. As I understand/remember the story, somehow some reporter got ahold of this secret memo about a conference in which British officials agreed to go along with Bush's exaggeration of then current intel. The reporter then ... re-typed the memo and destroyed the original, and then released its purported text. As in, "Trust me, this is genuine! I didn't pull it out of my arse!"
Anyway, back to the story at hand ...
So, decades after the fact a secretary noticed that a document she had typed was missing. Rather the typing a dated memo concerning the discovery and a summary of the original document's contents, the secretary forged a new document, recalled perfectly the original contents despite the passage of decades, using a modern word processing program, made multiple errors in the formatting, made photocopies of photocopies of photocopies of ... of photocopies to make the forgery look old, and passed off the forgery as real? To a known gadfly known to be a hater of the Bush family (I know, "What's his DU name?" If he's still alive, of course)?
That's so stupid that Tg's computer should have refused to post it!
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Per the Anti-Defamation League, hardly a fan of Nazis:http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/cyber-safety/c/internet-rumors/prescott-bushs-alleged-nazi.html
Joe Kennedy, however...
Kennedy rejected the warnings of the prominent Member of Parliament Winston Churchill that any compromise with Nazi Germany was impossible. Instead, Kennedy supported Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's apparent policy of appeasement. Throughout 1938, while the Nazi persecution of the Jews in Germany and Austria intensified, Kennedy attempted to arrange a meeting with Adolf Hitler.[39] Shortly before the Nazi aerial bombing of British cities began in September 1940, Kennedy once again sought a personal meeting with Hitler, again without the approval of the Department of State, "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany".[40] It has been surmised that Kennedy also had personal reasons for wanting to avoid war; "He feared for the lives of his three eldest sons, Joe, Jack, and Bobby, all of whom were or soon would be eligible to serve."[41]
Kennedy also argued strongly against giving military and economic aid to the United Kingdom. "Democracy is finished in England. It may be here," he stated in the Boston Sunday Globe of November 10, 1940. With Nazi German troops having overrun Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and France, and with bombs falling daily on Great Britain, Kennedy unambiguously and repeatedly stated his belief that this war was not about saving democracy from National Socialism (Nazism) or from Fascism. In an interview with two newspaper journalists, Louis M. Lyons, of The Boston Globe, and Ralph Coghlan, of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Kennedy said:
It's all a question of what we do with the next six months. The whole reason for aiding England is to give us time ... As long as she is in there, we have time to prepare. It isn't that [Britain is] fighting for democracy. That's the bunk. She's fighting for self-preservation, just as we will if it comes to us..... I know more about the European situation than anybody else, and it's up to me to see that the country gets it.[6]
His views were becoming inconsistent and increasingly isolationist; British MP Josiah Wedgwood, 1st Baron Wedgwood, who had himself opposed the British Government's earlier appeasement policy, said of Kennedy:
We have a rich man, untrained in diplomacy, unlearned in history and politics, who is a great publicity seeker and who apparently is ambitious to be the first Catholic president of the U.S.[42]
In British government circles during the Blitz, Kennedy was widely disparaged as a defeatist. He retreated to the countryside during the bombings of London by German aircraft, at a time when the British Royal Family, Prime Minister, government ministers, and other ambassadors chose to stay in London. (This prompted a member of Britain's Foreign Office to say, "I thought my daffodils were yellow until I met Joe Kennedy.")
When the American public and Roosevelt Administration officials read his quotes on democracy being "finished", and his belief that the Battle of Britain was not about "fighting for democracy", all of it being just "bunk", they realized that Kennedy could not be trusted to represent the United States. In the face of national public outcry, and pressure from the Roosevelt Department of State, which no longer wanted him, Kennedy submitted his resignation late in November 1940.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy,_Sr.#Reduced_influence
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Oh happy day! The Duers have finally been thrown another Bush bone.
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But yet obama's records can not be found
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I guess the DUmmies messed the news flash about Pres. Bush no being the president anymore. Then again they still blame Reagan for their miserable life. :loser:
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I wandered back over and the half wits end up debunking their own crazy CTs but still all hold to the "it still was true" dogma.
That is religious craziness you could make a college course over.
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I do remember seeing some in pics from an airbase there, probably Da Nang. But the deltas, F102 and the improved F106, were built as dedicated interceptors, the ones in Viet Nam were really only there for defense of SVN airspace from northern intrusions, which never materialized. Their hard points were intended for drop tanks and missile rails. The entire philosophy of both plane designs was to get as far out and as far up as possible to intercept manned bombers, exhaust their ordnance, and then run like hell for home.
They had a glide ratio about like a triangular piece of tile, so maintaining control of them at low speed (I.e. landing) was as best I recall more dependent on maintaining and managing engine thrust, and less responsive to aerodynamic control surfaces, and so at higher speed, compared to other aircraft in the inventory.
:II: :II: :hi5:
Yep! God help me, I LOVE slamming the (D)Ullards' faux military acumen.
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trof (46,590 posts)
I was in the same Air National Guard program as George W. Bush.
Here's how it worked:
Although I was a few years ahead of him, Bush and I joined the ANG under the exact same program. It was available only to those who wanted to become pilots.
Requirements:
1. 2 years of college, minimum
2. Pass 8 hours of written tests (Air Force Officer Qualification Test and Flight Aptitude Test)
3. Pass flight physical exam
4. Pass background security check by FBI for 'Secret' clearance.
If you managed all that, you would be sworn in as a 2nd Lt. (Temporary).
No basic training, no boot camp, no nothing.
BOOM! You're an officer.
Your temporary commission was in effect until you successfully completed the 55 week USAF Pilot Training Program, at which time you got your wings and it became a permanent (reserve) commission.
After the year+ of training at a regular air force base, you returned to your local guard base and got checked out in whatever aircraft they were flying.
In return for this, when you signed on the dotted line and took the oath back at the beginning, you committed to six years of service following pilot training.
You agreed to maintain your flying proficiency, logging the required hours of flight time each month, and fulfilling all training requirements.
Oh yeah, you'd also go off to war if the president decided he needed you.
Promotions:
If you kept your nose clean, you made 1st Lt. after three years.
Two years after that you pinned on Captain's bars.
All you had to do was not screw up.
Bush did NOT fulfill his service requirement and was, in effect, AWOL.
It's glaring.
His highest rank was 1st Lt.
He admittedly did not maintain flying proficiency, so he was utterly useless to his guard unit, and in direct violation of the contract he had signed.
You're an idiot. ::)
...and yes, (D)ipshit, I know the Guard very well.
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Response to blm (Reply #91)
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 03:39 PM
grasswire (43,699 posts)
94. YES
We also could review it on imdb.com.
And post about it on facebook.
And, and, and....
LTTE
I keep waiting to get overwhelmed by irrefutable DUmmy logic at the IMDB forums, but the DUmmies seem to be afraid to leave the herd.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3859076/board/?ref_=tt_ql_5
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But yet obama's records can not be found
For a half black man, his Muslim and Kenyan roots have sure been white washed. Guess for him, that's the part of his whiteness he embraces. Surely wasn't his grandmama. ::)
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‘Bush and I were lieutenants’ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/feb/10/20040210-082910-8424r/?page=all)
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‘Bush and I were lieutenants’ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/feb/10/20040210-082910-8424r/?page=all)
Great read. Thank you, Pete.
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You're an idiot. ::)
...and yes, (D)ipshit, I know the Guard very well.
The DUmmtard apparently wasn't 'In it' enough to ever find out that you can't be AWOL from IADT, just marked down for unsat participation if not excused, you have to be in an active duty status like AT, ADT, or ADSW to be AWOL.
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Great read. Thank you, Pete.
Back when Rathers' & Mapes' fates hung in the balance I was on GoldTalk, a discussion board that had a couple of sneering Libs/Progs who thought, for a little while, that they had been handed the Hate-Bush Holy Grail. Col. Campenni's letter, along with several other pieces persuaded the sneerers to move on to the next chimeric gotcha. I'll have to look over some other articles' urls I have from that time period to see how many are still "live" links.
Some people never seem to get the insight in the old saying that if it seems to good to be true, it probably isn't.
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The DUmmtard apparently wasn't 'In it' enough to ever find out that you can't be AWOL from IADT, just marked down for unsat participation if not excused, you have to be in an active duty status like AT, ADT, or ADSW to be AWOL.
:cheersmate: Exactly. Gawd, I remember that old, hand-entered 1379 roster.
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Back when Rathers' & Mapes' fates hung in the balance I was on GoldTalk, a discussion board that had a couple of sneering Libs/Progs who thought, for a little while, that they had been handed the Hate-Bush Holy Grail. Col. Campenni's letter, along with several other pieces persuaded the sneerers to move on to the next chimeric gotcha. I'll have to look over some other articles' urls I have from that time period to see how many are still "live" links.
Some people never seem to get the insight in the old saying that if it seems to good to be true, it probably isn't.
True. I was hanging (mostly lurking) around Little Green Footballs at that time. It was so obvious what was going on and he did some yeoman work exposing it. Then, he had a high speed come apart and has been in a straight jacket ever since. Meh, no loss. He was a fruit fruit loop anyway.
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So let me get this straight...we're supposed to care about a smear campaign by the left that was exposed as a fraud...but ignore as "no big thing" a very real scandal happening now with the former SecState who wants to be President?
DUmmies your hypocrisy is so over the top when it comes to matters like this it borders on a mental condition.
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So let me get this straight...we're supposed to care about a smear campaign by the left that was exposed as a fraud...
The truthiness of Rather's & Mapes' story transcend facts. As does Tsaritsa CHILL's Progressivity.
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The old fallacy of appealing to authority. Yep I was this or that and I can tell you the truth. Reminds me of a story awhile back about someone who claimed he saw something although he was a 100 miles away.
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#authority
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Bush did NOT fulfill his service requirement and was, in effect, AWOL.
Bush hasn't been President for over 7 years....
(http://www.madaboutmemes.com/uploads/memes/219.png)
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trof (46,590 posts)
trof = stolen valor
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trof = stolen valor
Oh really? Do tell.
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Prog AWOLers remind me of a dude who posted on Anthony Tully's naval history forum (http://propnturret.com/tully/). The dude stated that he wouldn't believe G. W. Bush ever stepped into the cockpit of an F-102 if logbooks, reports, and pictures were revealed; he would assume they were fauxny.
So AWOLers should be encouraged to spew their hate-filled nonsense.