The Conservative Cave

Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 04:15:03 AM

Title: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 04:15:03 AM
Ralliers against big government seem to have no problem with the enormous war machine that is half the world’s military and the biggest prison system on the planet. The “tyranny” label only pops up about public funds for education, healthcare, the environment, or unemployment insurance. The problem with a government is not its size, but whose interests it serves. Big government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth. Or it can wage grisly wars in three countries at the same time!
Now don't misunderstand, I love America, I am a Christian Republican. But hypocrisy, especially when it has become so apparent, so outright such as being displayed by many Conservatives today, is disgraceful, and the government is necessary for any free and secure society to exist in unity.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 26, 2015, 05:09:26 AM
Ralliers against big government seem to have no problem with the enormous war machine that is half the world’s military and the biggest prison system on the planet. The “tyranny” label only pops up about public funds for education, healthcare, the environment, or unemployment insurance. The problem with a government is not its size, but whose interests it serves. Big government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth. Or it can wage grisly wars in three countries at the same time!
Now don't misunderstand, I love America, I am a Christian Republican. But hypocrisy, especially when it has become so apparent, so outright such as being displayed by many Conservatives today, is disgraceful, and the government is necessary for any free and secure society to exist in unity.

What you write about is not founded in the Constitution.
Why don't you just say what you mean ?
Conservatives want to poison the air, water and land.
Conservatives want to keep everyone uneducated.
Conservatives want everyone to die from lack of health care insurance.
Conservatives want all participants in the employment market to be economic slaves to the 1%ers.
Conservatives suck because they don't worship your messiah...owebuma.


Oh, don't forget...Conservatives want to throw Granny off the cliff.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 05:15:23 AM
What you write about is not founded in the Constitution.
Why don't you just say what you mean ?
Conservatives want to poison the air, water and land.
Conservatives want to keep everyone uneducated.
Conservatives want everyone to die from lack of health care insurance.
Conservatives want all participants in the employment market to be economic slaves to the 1%ers.
Conservatives suck because they don't worship your messiah...owebuma.


Oh, don't forget...Conservatives want to throw Granny off the cliff.

Your blind and uneducated comments are a testament to how ignorant you are. I never said, nor do I believe any of the things which you stated. Please, once again I will ask you sir, do some research before posting.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 26, 2015, 05:25:35 AM
 :banghead:
Your blind and uneducated comments are a testament to how ignorant you are. I never said, nor do I believe any of the things which you stated. Please, once again I will ask you sir, do some research before posting.

You're right, I did forget one point that you really mean.
Conservatives want a military that projects US hegemony and imperialism all over the world.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 05:38:41 AM
:banghead:
You're right, I did forget one point that you really mean.
Conservatives want a military that projects US hegemony and imperialism all over the world.

Not quite, more along the lines of "stay consistent, don't cherrypick the things you say are tryanny." And "in order for the government to fulfill it's purpose of protecting the People's Natural Rights and ensuring the security and unity of the country, it must take up certain tasks, such as assisting in health care or improving our schools. That's not tyranny, it's necessary action."
Does that sound better?
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 26, 2015, 05:59:11 AM
Not quite, more along the lines of "stay consistent, don't cherrypick the things you say are tryanny." And "in order for the government to fulfill it's purpose of protecting the People's Natural Rights and ensuring the security and unity of the country, it must take up certain tasks, such as assisting in health care or improving our schools. That's not tyranny, it's necessary action."
Does that sound better?


Mark Levin wrote a book about Liberty and Tyranny.
It's part of the Big Dog Conservative Cave traveling library.
I was the last one to read it, so it is now available for other members in good standing of the cave to read.
If you want I can forward it to you, or you can check out the thread about the conservative cave traveling library...

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=91907.0 (http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=91907.0)

Why don't you educate yourself on what is and isn't Liberty and Tyranny ?
And while you're at it, why don't you educate yourself about rights and where they originate ?

Here's a hint, if a "right" is man made, it can easily be unmade.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 06:14:48 AM
why don't you educate yourself about rights and where they originate ?

Here's a hint, if a "right" is man made, it can easily be unmade.

John Locke devised the Natural Rights that all men have, the Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property. He stated that these were all given to every man by God, that no man should have the power to take away or control another's Rights, and that the Government's purpose was to preserve these Rights.
Without government there is no one to protect the People's Rights, and a government without power is just as useless as as a government that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 26, 2015, 06:22:50 AM
John Locke devised the Natural Rights that all men have, the Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property. He stated that these were all given to every man by God, that no man should have the power to take away or control another's Rights, and that the Government's purpose was to preserve these Rights.
Without government there is no one to protect the People's Rights, and a government without power is just as useless as as a government that doesn't exist.

You almost have the idea.
Until you ran into the bolds.
God protects the people's rights.
Each individual is endowed with the ability to protect their own rights.
Citizens can band together to protect their own rights.
A good and just government should protect rights, but should not invent rights.
If it does, it needs to be abolished in favor of a government that does protect God given rights.


Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 26, 2015, 07:03:52 AM
John Locke devised the Natural Rights that all men have, the Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property. He stated that these were all given to every man by God, that no man should have the power to take away or control another's Rights, and that the Government's purpose was to preserve these Rights.
Without government there is no one to protect the People's Rights, and a government without power is just as useless as as a government that doesn't exist.

Spoken like a typical totalitarian Progressive troll.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 07:19:07 AM
Spoken like a typical totalitarian Progressive troll.
Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 26, 2015, 07:37:29 AM
Ralliers against big government seem to have no problem with the enormous war machine that is half the world’s military and the biggest prison system on the planet. The “tyranny” label only pops up about public funds for education, healthcare, the environment, or unemployment insurance. The problem with a government is not its size, but whose interests it serves. Big government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth. Or it can wage grisly wars in three countries at the same time!

War machine?  What's your DU name?

We spend roughly 4% of U.S. GDP on defense and the Progressives like you are trying to make it smaller while at the same time you're increasing the amount of GDP spent on unfunded liabilities (welfare) which right now stads at around 16% and rising every year.

Spare me your stupid Liberal charts that show how we spend more than 10 other nations combined.  It's all been debunked here in the past about what that chart is such a bunch of BS.

If you want a big centralized government to control everything you do...move over here to Europe and never have to worry about a thing in your life again...including the freedom you traded for safety.

America wasn't founded to allow the kind of top down tyranny we see going on today.  It was founded and the Constitution outlined the LIMITED role the Federal government was supposed to have.

But that kind of "negative liberties" as you Progs like to refer to them...just drives you up the wall.



Quote
Now don't misunderstand, I love America, I am a Christian Republican. But hypocrisy, especially when it has become so apparent, so outright such as being displayed by many Conservatives today, is disgraceful, and the government is necessary for any free and secure society to exist in unity.

You're none of the above if you truly believe the first bit of bullshit I quoted form you.

The PEOPLE not the government are whats required to ensure freedom and society to exist.  Without the people there is no Government you dolt.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 26, 2015, 07:38:08 AM
Care to elaborate?

I just did below.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 08:00:47 AM
War machine?  What's your DU name?

We spend roughly 4% of U.S. GDP on defense and the Progressives like you are trying to make it smaller while at the same time you're increasing the amount of GDP spent on unfunded liabilities (welfare) which right now stads at around 16% and rising every year.

Spare me your stupid Liberal charts that show how we spend more than 10 other nations combined.  It's all been debunked here in the past about what that chart is such a bunch of BS.

By "war machine" I'm referring to having military bases in countless countries, the most powerful military in the world, and one of the largest nuclear arsenals. Not our defense spending.

Quote
If you want a big centralized government to control everything you do

I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference. Do NOT put words in my mouth.

Quote
The PEOPLE not the government are whats required to ensure freedom and society to exist.  Without the people there is no Government you dolt.

It's a two way street my friend, without the Government there is no People either, not unless you want an Anarchist society.

Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 26, 2015, 08:11:24 AM
By "war machine" I'm referring to having military bases in countless countries, the most powerful military in the world, and one of the largest nuclear arsenals. Not our defense spending.

Do you even know why we have those bases where we do?  And how they helped not only ensure that we won the cold war...but allwoed us to respond to the "ethnic clensing and genocide" issues you're bitching about in the other thread.

You really have no clue as to why the countries where we have fixed permanent bases want us there and why strategically we have them there do you?

And if you haven't been paying attention lately...we aren't the most powerful anymore.  And our nuclear arsenal is smaller than the Russians thanks to your fellow Progressives.

Quote
I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference. Do NOT put words in my mouth.

Your answer for the fixes you're complaining about is more Government.  And that is definattely NOT the right answer.  How many more trillions of dollars are we supposed to throw at the alleged "problems"?  The answer isn't more spending...the answer is less Federal intrusion into how the states handle these issues.

I'm not putting any words into your mouth that you aren't spitting out first.

Quote
It's a two way street my friend, without the Government there is no People either, not unless you want an Anarchist society.

Thank you for proving you have absolutely zero knowledge of the hows and whys of the founding of America.  You're totally clueless.

And I'm certainly NOT your friend.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: freedumb2003b on May 26, 2015, 08:39:52 AM
By "war machine" I'm referring to having military bases in countless countries, the most powerful military in the world, and one of the largest nuclear arsenals. Not our defense spending.

"All we are saying is give peace a chance."

You have no idea why we have nukes abd why they are important, eh ponytail?

Quote
I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference. Do NOT put words in my mouth.

What is failing is all the progressive crap we have loaded the government with -- 2/3 of the depart,ents in the Federal Government should not be there.


Quote
It's a two way street my friend, without the Government there is no People either, not unless you want an Anarchist society.

Arguably the stupidest thing ever said on all the interwebz ever.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Mr Mannn on May 26, 2015, 09:24:35 AM
Now don't misunderstand, I love America, I am a Christian Republican.
I do not believe you are either a Christian or a Republican.

You are a liberal atheist.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: RayRaytheSBS on May 26, 2015, 10:59:44 AM
I do not believe you are either a Christian or a Republican.

You are a liberal atheist.

Oooooooo.. That's gonna leave a mark.
Quote



By "war machine" I'm referring to having military bases in countless countries, the most powerful military in the world, and one of the largest nuclear arsenals. Not our defense spending.

So let me get this straight; America, which is on it's way to having the smallest Active-duty army since WW II has the most powerful military in the world? Well that's a pretty sad fact considering we can't handle a 'JV team' (your President's words)  like Daesh (also known as ISIS).

Liberals always say the military is evil, but in my experience, they use the military for more stupid stuff than conservatives.. And expect it done with less resources and people.

Its a mindset like that in a CinC that causes things like 'Task Force Smith' and Operation 'Gothic Serpent' to take place. Things that get American servicemen killed because liberals expect us to do war on the cheap.

And as for the military bases, most of those countries WANT us there. Europe enjoyed decades of prosperity and economic expansion of their social programs because they didn't have to pay as much for defense; we were there at the fulda gap to stop the red horde.

We have status of forces agreements with most of the countries that we have troops in. This protects our soldiers and serves the best interests of the country. A notable exception to that is Iraq, where we have no SOFA. Once again, thanks to your president.

If you haven't figured it out, your talk of American forces being imperial war-mongers isn't going to fly here. So how's about you take that over to Daily KOS, or whatever liberal echo chamber you want, and
 GFYS.  :bird:

ETC: 'Serpent'
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 26, 2015, 11:36:52 AM
Oooooooo.. That's gonna leave a mark.
So let me get this straight; America, which is on it's way to having the smallest Active-duty army since WW II has the most powerful military in the world? Well that's a pretty sad fact considering we can't handle a 'JV team' (your President's words)  like Daesh (also known as ISIS).

Liberals always say the military is evil, but in my experience, they use the military for more stupid stuff than conservatives.. And expect it done with less resources and people.

Its a mindset like that in a CinC that causes things like 'Task Force Smith' and Operation 'Gothic Serpant' to take place. Things that get American servicemen killed because liberals expect us to do war on the cheap.

And as for the military bases, most of those countries WANT us there. Europe enjoyed decades of prosperity and economic expansion of their social programs because they didn't have to pay as much for defense; we were there at the fulda gap to stop the red horde.

We have status of forces agreements with most of the countries that we have troops in. This protects our soldiers and serves the best interests of the country. A notable exception to that is Iraq, where we have no SOFA. Once again, thanks to your president.

If you haven't figured it out, your talk of American forces being imperial war-mongers isn't going to fly here. So how's about you take that over to Daily KOS, or whatever liberal echo chamber you want, and
 GFYS.  :bird:

(http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m1129_stryker_mortar.jpg)

EOM...target destroyed.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: FlaGator on May 26, 2015, 12:00:49 PM
It amuses me to no end how liberals focus on republican hypocrisy while completely ignoring their own hypocrisy. It seems to be we have a pot visiting who desires to label the kettle as black.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Bad Dog on May 26, 2015, 01:09:08 PM
It amuses me to no end who liberals focus on republican hypocrisy while completely ignoring their own hypocrisy. It seems to be we have a pot visiting who desires to label the kettle as black.

What amuses me are the initials in DMFnumbers name.....DUmmie Mother ???????
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Belle on May 26, 2015, 01:17:58 PM
dmf777:  "I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference...."

Historically, government has never been able to improve anything.  The progressives do indeed throw more money @ their big projects, but often it just makes it worse.

Want some proof?

- war on poverty:  http://www.floppingaces.net/2015/05/05/the-war-on-poverty-40-trillion-funding-failure-rather-than-facebook-or-fubu-or-ford/

- public education:  http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/09/does-spending-more-on-education-improve-academic-achievement

- socialized medicine:  http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/10-obamacare-horror-stories-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: JohnnyReb on May 26, 2015, 01:56:07 PM
What amuses me are the initials in DMFnumbers name.....DUmmie Mother ???????
:lmao:...those were my thoughts too...or a member of the Department of Mortor Forkers.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Big Dog on May 26, 2015, 02:15:52 PM
DUmb Mother ****er 777,

The great conservatives here have done an excellent job of slapping you like a bitch.

(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H39mqGa1qdY/U3tSLYCU9PI/AAAAAAAARCA/YJV3Nf_Q1l8/w426-h240/1398497776490.gif)

Now it's a libertarian's turn.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y462/staffpicks/Animated_GIFs/BitchSlap.gif)

The scariest thing about you is that you will be eligible to vote someday.

You said,
Quote
Big government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth.

Government doesn't provide anything. It takes wealth from productive people through force and the threat of force; creates money out of thin air; "borrows" from itself, businesses, and foreign government, without repaying that debt; spends the majority of that money on itself; and redistributes the rest to client groups in exchange for political support (i.e., buying votes).

Government self-perpetuation and redistribution of wealth already account for 2/3 of the budget, and have put us over the cliff. Look down, little coyote, before you suggest "universal" taxpayer-funded medicine, jobs, and education.

(http://www.statisticsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Wile_E_Coyote-Dont_Look_Down.jpg)

There is no road beneath your feet. Even if the military budget (which is mandated in the Constitution), was reduced to zero, the money to pay for "universal" healthcare, government employment, and education (which are not to be found in the Constitution) wouldn't exist.

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3874024/wile-e-coyote-1-o.gif)
Graphic depiction of dmf777's Utopia


Then you said,
Quote
John Locke devised the Natural Rights that all men have

Locke didn't devise natural rights, he described them. Look up the definition of "devise", and come back.

I'll wait.

Clearly, you haven't actually read Locke, as your other comments attest.

The exemplar of your ignorance was this little nugget:
Quote
I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference. Do NOT put words in my mouth.

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff18/billymade/Picture1.png)

If the government provides medical care, jobs, and education, then it controls medical care, jobs, and education. It can't be said any simpler than that, Super Genius.

In parting, here is a tip:
(https://img.fark.net/images/cache/orig/Q/Q9/fark_Q9PnhubrnZDrFeXumkGjJJ0V34Q.jpg?t=dBgESRN74rSh9pXtcMr9VA&f=1433131200)

School's out. You are dismissed.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Ptarmigan on May 26, 2015, 05:48:58 PM
What amuses me are the initials in DMFnumbers name.....DUmmie Mother ???????

Fitting name for him.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 27, 2015, 01:21:35 AM
I wonder if anything said to the lib sunk in.
I really shouldn't wonder from years of experiencing dense libs(birm) and seeing how evidence never does seem to sink in.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: SVPete on May 27, 2015, 08:21:19 AM
In response to the OP, Yes, I will have Brussels sprouts fries with my anchovy milkshake.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: SVPete on May 27, 2015, 08:25:35 AM
So was dmf#s a suicide-poster mole? Or just headed off to bed?
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 27, 2015, 08:33:27 AM
So was dmf#s a suicide-poster mole? Or just headed off to bed?

He got his ass handed to him here. He's still defending Muslims on the other thread however.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: SVPete on May 27, 2015, 09:00:22 AM
He got his ass handed to him here. He's still defending Muslims on the other thread however.

[Sarcasm] Obviously a MoveOn.org member practicing what (s)he preaches. [/Sarcasm]

How is "defending" Muslims as a class any better than "attacking" Muslims as a class? Both depersonalize individual Muslims (though downplaying the potential of some being hostile is certainly much more risky than overstating said risk).
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 27, 2015, 09:42:20 AM
[Sarcasm] Obviously a MoveOn.org member practicing what (s)he preaches. [/Sarcasm]

How is "defending" Muslims as a class any better than "attacking" Muslims as a class? Both depersonalize individual Muslims (though downplaying the potential of some being hostile is certainly much more risky than overstating said risk).

Well first he's playing the moral equivalency card comparing terrorist attacks by Jews and Christians...with a dash of McVeigh tossed in for fun.

Secondly he's broadbrushing our criticism of muslim terrorists and the radical practitioners of Islam into saying that we are accusing ALL Muslims of being terrorists.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Big Dog on May 27, 2015, 10:11:57 AM
Well first he's playing the moral equivalency card comparing terrorist attacks by Jews and Christians...with a dash of McVeigh tossed in for fun.

Secondly he's broadbrushing our criticism of muslim terrorists and the radical practitioners of Islam into saying that we are accusing ALL Muslims of being terrorists.

(http://thestockmasters.com/files/images/indiana_jones_grail_knight3[1].preview.jpg)
'He trolls... poorly.'
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Happy Fun Ball on May 27, 2015, 10:16:03 AM
Secondly he's broadbrushing our criticism of muslim terrorists and the radical practitioners of Islam into saying that we are accusing ALL Muslims of being terrorists.
Sure, all Muslims aren't terrorists, but if there's an act of terrorism, it's a safe bet to assume that a Muslim was responsible.

(http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/TROP.jpg)
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Zathras on May 27, 2015, 10:40:18 AM
dmf777:  "I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference...."

Historically, government has never been able to improve anything.  The progressives do indeed throw more money @ their big projects, but often it just makes it worse.

Want some proof?

- war on poverty:  http://www.floppingaces.net/2015/05/05/the-war-on-poverty-40-trillion-funding-failure-rather-than-facebook-or-fubu-or-ford/

- public education:  http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/09/does-spending-more-on-education-improve-academic-achievement

- socialized medicine:  http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/10-obamacare-horror-stories-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe

I can give you another example in just one word.....Detroit.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on May 28, 2015, 12:19:58 AM
It amuses me to no end how liberals focus on republican hypocrisy while completely ignoring their own hypocrisy. It seems to be we have a pot visiting who desires to label the kettle as black.

 :II:

30 posts and nothing about the absolute destruction wreaked by the (D)Marxist party.

I'm betting:  A Ronulan.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dutch508 on May 28, 2015, 12:23:08 AM
A true conservative.


*yawn*


wake me when we return to our normally scheduled program.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Chris_ on May 28, 2015, 12:28:50 AM
30 posts and nothing about the absolute destruction wreaked by the (D)Marxist party.
Where's that picture of Jeb Eddy when you need it? :whatever:
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on May 28, 2015, 01:28:17 AM
Where's that picture of Jeb Eddy when you need it? :whatever:

(http://wizbangblog.com/images/2005/09/jed_eddy_fake_republican.jpg)

 :-)
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on May 28, 2015, 01:38:33 AM
Quote
dmf777:  "I never said control anything, I said improve what is failing and assist those who need it. Enormous difference...."

No difference.  Why?  Because you haven't the slightest clue, or willfully refuse to recognize, the reasons for those "failures".
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 28, 2015, 01:45:08 AM
No difference.  Why?  Because you haven't the slightest clue, or willfully refuse to recognize, the reasons for those "failures".

Controlling would be saying government should create a standard curriculum and a national standardized test (like Common Core). I'm saying government should provide schools with better funding, and more resources. I don't know about the rest of America, but here in Florida our schools are grossly underfunded, my kids' books are typically used, ripped, torn and broken upon issuance, their computers are early 2,000's laptops with the first versions of XP still installed, and their lunches are a slice of pizza or another proportianately small, unhealthy meal.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 28, 2015, 02:21:53 AM
Controlling would be saying government should create a standard curriculum and a national standardized test (like Common Core). I'm saying government should provide schools with better funding, and more resources. I don't know about the rest of America, but here in Florida our schools are grossly underfunded, my kids' books are typically used, ripped, torn and broken upon issuance, their computers are early 2,000's laptops with the first versions of XP still installed, and their lunches are a slice of pizza or another proportianately small, unhealthy meal.
So why are resigned to believing that the only option for your child is public school?

You sound like you have no choice in your child's education options.

You whinge about the lack of money and say we need to spend more on all the welfare crap and less on the "war machine". Well let me tell you a little something g about that "war machine" money you so despise.

The budget cuts that have happened to the military to pay for the welfare programs you live  don't just affect the beans and bullets...they affect things like schools child development programs Commissary operations and after school programs.

Thanks to the need to pay for the universal health care that you seem to think is a "right" money has been taken from the defense budget....billions of dollars.

So now instead of the Class of 2015 graduating from a new high school. Which was the plan when my daughter was a Freshman...the next four classes will continue to use a 60 year old building that was originally a military hospital.

Our kids have the same computers your kids do in the schools....but because of the increases in spending on the social welfare shit you seem to think we need...when they break they can't be repaired.

Soldiers who once relied on a Commissary on the weekends to get stuff to eat in their Barracks rooms because there is no chow hall on the Kaserne now have to travel 20 kilometers to the nearest DFAC or Commissary. Most of them do not have cars. And those that do have to fill them with gas that costs us almost $2 more a gallon on post than what you're paying in the states.

So save me your girlie bitchi.g about not having enough money for this and that.

What you're too obtuse to realize is that the billions of dollars your state already throws at these bloated ineptly run agencies that you think we don't spend enough on...is the very reason your child's school is in the shape it's in.

But like a typical Progressive you think the fix is to just toss more money at the situation.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: dmf777 on May 28, 2015, 02:47:54 AM
So why are resigned to believing that the only option for your child is public school?

You sound like you have no choice in your child's education options.

You whinge about the lack of money and say we need to spend more on all the welfare crap and less on the "war machine". Well let me tell you a little something g about that "war machine" money you so despise.

The budget cuts that have happened to the military to pay for the welfare programs you live  don't just affect the beans and bullets...they affect things like schools child development programs Commissary operations and after school programs.

Thanks to the need to pay for the universal health care that you seem to think is a "right" money has been taken from the defense budget....billions of dollars.

So now instead of the Class of 2015 graduating from a new high school. Which was the plan when my daughter was a Freshman...the next four classes will continue to use a 60 year old building that was originally a military hospital.

Our kids have the same computers your kids do in the schools....but because of the increases in spending on the social welfare shit you seem to think we need...when they break they can't be repaired.

Soldiers who once relied on a Commissary on the weekends to get stuff to eat in their Barracks rooms because there is no chow hall on the Kaserne now have to travel 20 kilometers to the nearest DFAC or Commissary. Most of them do not have cars. And those that do have to fill them with gas that costs us almost $2 more a gallon on post than what you're paying in the states.

So save me your girlie bitchi.g about not having enough money for this and that.

What you're too obtuse to realize is that the billions of dollars your state already throws at these bloated ineptly run agencies that you think we don't spend enough on...is the very reason your child's school is in the shape it's in.

But like a typical Progressive you think the fix is to just toss more money at the situation.

If we could handle our finances none of the above would be an issue. Without the $18,000,000,000,000 debt, and with smart money management, we would be able to handle the things like defense, welfare, education, etc. with much less budget restriction and worry.
 
I think the government should assist in these things, but I also think that they should spend as little as possible until our debt is brought to a reasonable size. (I can hear the groans and rants of the readers already as I type this) but we need to (gasp) tighten budgets and (faint) raise taxes if we are going to deal with this efficiently.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 28, 2015, 04:32:06 AM
If we could handle our finances none of the above would be an issue. Without the $18,000,000,000,000 debt, and with smart money management, we would be able to handle the things like defense, welfare, education, etc. with much less budget restriction and worry.

We didn't get $18 trillion into debt because of military spending.  We got $18 trillion into debt...with almost half of that happening in the last 7 years...becaues of the very welfare issues you've lambasted us about not spending enough on.

It never wa the job of the Federal Government to handle education...it never was the Federal Government's job to handle programs to help homeless or poor....NEVER.  The specific and limited responsibilities of the government at the Federal level are very clearly outlined in the Constitution.

You want smart money management?  Give give control back to the states and get the Feds the hell out of what isn't their business in the first place.
 
Quote
I think the government should assist in these things,

Why?  Other than defense...where is it in the Constitution that they should assist in these things?


Quote
but I also think that they should spend as little as possible until our debt is brought to a reasonable size. (I can hear the groans and rants of the readers already as I type this) but we need to (gasp) tighten budgets and (faint) raise taxes if we are going to deal with this efficiently.

You're talking out of both sides of your face.  On one hand you rail about the lack of spending on things like free healthcare and programs for the poor and welfare etc....and on the other you say we need "better financial management of the budget" and tighten our betls and raise taxes.

Which is it?  Because as I said before you can't have it both ways.

Oh and an Conservative would go around spouting things like universial health care and tax increases.  Anyone with an 8th grade knowledge of econimics knows that tax inreases are economy killers and stunt growth.

You're no Conservative.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: txradioguy on May 28, 2015, 04:34:27 AM
Hey dmf#'s....do you realize that in the history of welfare or any of the Great Society programs...there has never been a real actual cut to the spending on any of the programs?

Never.  Their budgets rise continually without restraint every single budget cycle.

Also...do you know what the concept of baseline budgeting is?
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: libertybele on May 28, 2015, 09:24:34 AM
Liberalism and progressiveness was widely rejected by the majority in the midterms. Liberalism and progressiveness is what we are experiencing today under this administration.  Liberalism and progressiveness isn't working, won't work and hasn't worked.

Adhering to the Constitution and a return to conservatism is what WILL work and has worked.  :usflag: :usflag:
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Belle on May 28, 2015, 01:26:03 PM
Agree, txradioguy.:  "We didn't get $18 trillion into debt because of military spending."

Bush was a big spender, but Obama was even more so.
Debt under Bush:  from $5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion
Debt under O:       from #10.83 trillion to $18.15 trillion.

Of course the welfare programs are the largest driver of out debt.  But the other things, well, its enough to drive one crazy:  Bailouts, stimulus: a slush fund for public unions, solar pals & more, taxpayer funded agency vacations, making crappy star trek videos, O's royal vacations & use of air force 1 for campaigning, Sandy pork bill, advertising food stamps in Mexico...the list is endless.

http://www.capitolhilldaily.com/2013/06/taxpayers-irs-party/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/apr/09/rand-paul/rand-paul-debt-has-tripled-bush-took-office/
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Big Dog on May 28, 2015, 01:45:15 PM
Agree, txradioguy.:  "We didn't get $18 trillion into debt because of military spending."

Bush was a big spender, but Obama was even more so.
Debt under Bush:  from $5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion
Debt under O:       from #10.83 trillion to $18.15 trillion.

Of course the welfare programs are the largest driver of out debt.  But the other things, well, its enough to drive one crazy:  Bailouts, stimulus: a slush fund for public unions, solar pals & more, taxpayer funded agency vacations, making crappy star trek videos, O's royal vacations & use of air force 1 for campaigning, Sandy pork bill, advertising food stamps in Mexico...the list is endless.

http://www.capitolhilldaily.com/2013/06/taxpayers-irs-party/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/apr/09/rand-paul/rand-paul-debt-has-tripled-bush-took-office/


Obumazombie would call that 'wallet rape'.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Eupher on May 28, 2015, 02:03:45 PM
If we could handle our finances none of the above would be an issue. Without the $18,000,000,000,000 debt, and with smart money management, we would be able to handle the things like defense, welfare, education, etc. with much less budget restriction and worry.
 
I think the government should assist in these things, but I also think that they should spend as little as possible until our debt is brought to a reasonable size. (I can hear the groans and rants of the readers already as I type this) but we need to (gasp) tighten budgets and (faint) raise taxes if we are going to deal with this efficiently.

Who's "we", kemo sabe? I handle my own budget just fine, TYVM. The problem is a spineless Congress who not only doesn't want to stand up against an out-of-control Marxist in the White House, but actually colludes with him.

The second part of your post starts to make sense, but that doesn't square with your first-and-foremost assertion that "government" needs to allocate more of our resources and thus needs more power.

Others on this point are far more eloquent than I, but I'll just flat-out state that anybody who even remotely thinks that government can do anything without shitting all over itself needs to wipe that shitty ass that is the government and keep doing it until they get sick of the stink.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Belle on May 28, 2015, 02:57:42 PM
Eupher:  "The problem is a spineless Congress who not only doesn't want to stand up against an out-of-control Marxist in the White House, but actually colludes with him."

What a well said statement!  This is what's so wrong in Washington.  Michael Savage refers to liberalism as a mental disorder;  I think of it as an infectious malady.

I am so disgusted with the liberal republicans (& now they won in '14, so they're empowered) & not only their liberal complicity,  but consistently trashing the conservative wing of the electorate as well as our Constitution.

If they had any dignity left, these liberal R's would all line up & do the Arlen Spector thing.  Then, just maybe, we'd have a choice @ elections.

 
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Ptarmigan on May 29, 2015, 12:39:58 AM
(http://wizbangblog.com/images/2005/09/jed_eddy_fake_republican.jpg)

 :-)

The late and great Crockspot exposed him.  :yahoo:
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 29, 2015, 01:00:33 AM
Did someone say wallet rape ?
Usually it's Big Dog who is the predictable prognosticator.
I've never seen him be wrong yet.
Not only wallet rape but ration card rape !
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Chris_ on May 29, 2015, 01:08:14 AM
Did someone say wallet rape ?
Usually it's Big Dog who is the predictable prognosticator.
I've never seen him be wrong yet.
Not only wallet rape but ration card rape !
Wallet rape hurts everyone.  It's what liberals excel at.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: obumazombie on May 29, 2015, 01:13:40 AM
Wallet rape hurts everyone.  It's what liberals excel at.

Don't let a lib near a ration card either.
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: catsmtrods on May 29, 2015, 06:52:59 AM
Liberals always think they can manage money better if they just had more of it!
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: SVPete on May 29, 2015, 09:23:04 AM
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=102468.msg1289118#msg1289118

The late and great Crockspot exposed him.  :yahoo:

Was that the D operative that lives somewhere on the San Francisco Peninsula (maybe Palo Alto, Menlo Park or Redwood City?)?
Title: Re: A Statement on Hypocritical Conservatism and the Government
Post by: Belle on May 29, 2015, 12:23:47 PM
catsmtrods:  "Liberals always think they can manage money better if they just had more of it!"
How true.

But ya'll know we're in trouble.
Us last standing constitutional loving conservatives are now hated by 2 main factions:  the Democrats & the GOP.  I will never forget how they took a fine man, Allen West, re-districted him, & he lost the election to that awful, foul, Grayson.

Hey, here's a ticket to conquer the racial divide:  West/Carson  It would sure give Rove & Priebus palpitations!

http://shark-tank.com/2013/12/19/allen-west-getting-screwed-case-revisited-fl-gop-deletes-redistricting-records/#