Author Topic: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule  (Read 17886 times)

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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2011, 04:15:55 PM »
I dont even know how you got 3.

FFS!...here we go again!

Junior, do your research on the Nazi "Waffengesetz" of 1938, the USSR's "Art. 182 Penal Code" of 1929 and China's "Art. 9 Security Law" of Oct. 22, 1957 during "The Great Leap Forward" and then get back to us.
"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

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Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2011, 04:17:06 PM »

Point out where ANY of the tenants are wrong, and why.
Ok.

Socialism according to the dictionary.
Quote
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Socialism according to a Socialist(Noam Chomsky)
Quote
control of production by the workers themselves, not owners and managers who rule them and control all decisions",

Socialism according to a Capitalist(Ayn Rand)
Quote
The essential characteristic of socialism is the denial of individual property rights; under socialism, the right to property (which is the right of use and disposal) is vested in 'society as a whole,'
Points 1 2 and 4 could perhaps be applied to socialism. Perhaps. But 3 5 and 6 have nothign to do with it except in your paranoid Glenn Beck fantasy.
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Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2011, 04:21:03 PM »
FFS!...here we go again!

Junior, do your research on the Nazi "Waffengesetz" of 1938, the USSR's "Art. 182 Penal Code" of 1929 and China's "Art. 9 Security Law" of Oct. 22, 1957 during "The Great Leap Forward" and then get back to us.


But there are lots of non-socialist nations that dont have guns(The UK), as well as socialist countries that do have guns(Switzerland) and there is no doctrine within the ideology of Socialism that I can find(mabye you can find it for me) that calls of disarming the populace.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2011, 04:27:17 PM »
But there are lots of non-socialist nations that dont have guns(The UK), as well as socialist countries that do have guns(Switzerland) and there is no doctrine within the ideology of Socialism that I can find(mabye you can find it for me) that calls of disarming the populace.

Bitchslapped for refusing to do your own homework.

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Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2011, 04:30:40 PM »
Bitchslapped for refusing to do your own homework.


I did do my homework.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

Now do you have anything to add that will support your case or criticize mine or are we just exchanging plesantries here?
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2011, 04:39:42 PM »
But there are lots of non-socialist nations that dont have guns(The UK), as well as socialist countries that do have guns(Switzerland) and there is no doctrine within the ideology of Socialism that I can find(mabye you can find it for me) that calls of disarming the populace.

So what you're saying is if I were a British or Swiss citizen that did not approve of the socialist system I could opt-out and still live my life as I saw fit within those nations.

Is that what you're saying?
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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2011, 04:45:26 PM »
But there are lots of non-socialist nations that dont have guns(The UK), as well as socialist countries that do have guns(Switzerland) and there is no doctrine within the ideology of Socialism that I can find(mabye you can find it for me) that calls of disarming the populace.

The U.K. isn't socialist? With marginal personal-income tax rates at 50%? WTF are you smoking?

To own a firearm in Switzerland you MUST be a member of the state militia. How's that for personal liberty?

It is never about disarming the ENTIRE populace. It is about disarming cultural segments of the society (Jews in Germany, political rivals of said faction, etc.) that are deemed undesirable by those with aspiration for politburo power.

Here's a couple of quotes from the most ardent practioners of socialism in history on their views on universal gun rights for individuals:

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." -Mao Zedong's Little Red Book

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead."~Adolf Hitler in his Chancelor's Speech in 1935

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. ... Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms." Vladimir Lenin's April Theses
"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

"Generally speaking, the "Way of the Warrior" is resolute acceptance of death."~ Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2011, 04:53:38 PM »
The U.K. isn't socialist? With marginal personal-income tax rates at 50%? WTF are you smoking?

To own a firearm in Switzerland you MUST be a member of the state militia. How's that for personal liberty?
It is never about disarming the ENTIRE populace. It is about disarming cultural segments of the society (Jews in Germany, political rivals of said faction, etc.) that are deemed undesirable by those with aspiration for politburo power.
Here's a couple of quotes from the most ardent practioners of socialismAuthoritarianism in history on their views on universal gun rights for individuals:

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." -Mao Zedong's Little Red Book

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead."~Adolf Hitler in his Chancelor's Speech in 1935

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. ... Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms." Vladimir Lenin's April Theses


Every man in Switzerland is a part of the Swiss militia you dolt. That means that EVERYONE HAS A GUN.

Who is it in America that the socialists plan on disarming? So far the only people being disarmed are known felons.

All those people you mentioned also had another thing in common, they were dictators. Could it perhaps be that this is the reason they disarmed people?
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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2011, 04:58:09 PM »
Every man in Switzerland is a part of the Swiss militia you dolt. That means that EVERYONE HAS A GUN.

Who is it in America that the socialists plan on disarming? So far the only people being disarmed are known felons.

All those people you mentioned also had another thing in common, they were dictators. Could it perhaps be that this is the reason they disarmed people?

Damn, you are dumb. The fact that they MUST be a member of the militia means they are part of the collective whims of the state's decrees and cannot own a firearms without being so. Personal liberty is cast aside to do so.

Who are they planning on disarming? The same people that tyrants always attempt to disarm...their political rivals.

Another unifying feature is that they (dictators) all used SOCIALISM as their mechanism and ideology for expanding and wielding control over the citizenry.
"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

"Generally speaking, the "Way of the Warrior" is resolute acceptance of death."~ Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2011, 05:07:21 PM »
Damn, you are dumb. The fact that they MUST be a member of the militia means they are part of the collective whims of the state's decrees and cannot own a firearms without being so. Personal liberty is cast aside to do so.

But everyone in every nation is already that, those "decrees" you are talking about are called laws. Just because they are "part of the collective" doesnt mean that they dont personally own guns and couldnt use them just as effectivly as a man not "part of the collective".

Quote
Who are they planning on disarming? The same people that tyrants always attempt to disarm...their political rivals.
In other words... you? Oh my, how self-important we are.

Quote
Another unifying feature is that they (dictators) all used SOCIALISM as their mechanism and ideology for expanding and wielding control over the citizenry.
If there was an Olympic medal for missing points youd win the Gold.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_equal_causation

Please start making an argument or go home.
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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2011, 05:17:58 PM »
But everyone in every nation is already that, those "decrees" you are talking about are called laws. Just because they are "part of the collective" doesnt mean that they dont personally own guns and couldnt use them just as effectivly as a man not "part of the collective".

And "Laws" can conflict with personal values. To be forced to comply with a "law" against one's personal moral code and therefore be held as treasonous just to "own arms" is about as collective (socialist) as you can get. Effectivity is irrelevant.

Quote
In other words... you? Oh my, how self-important we are.

Sure, me...or anyone like me across the globe.

Quote
If there was an Olympic medal for missing points youd win the Gold.http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_equal_causation

Please start making an argument or go home.

The reduction of opposition is essential to gaining power. Disarming the strength of an opponent to inflict violence upon you or your followers is "the cause". The most tyrannical individuals in the history of the planet all share this same doctrine of socialism as the means. That is a cold, hard fact a smarmy ***** like you will never be able to distort.
"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

"Generally speaking, the "Way of the Warrior" is resolute acceptance of death."~ Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2011, 06:05:14 PM »
And "Laws" can conflict with personal values. To be forced to comply with a "law" against one's personal moral code... is about as collective (socialist) as you can get. Effectivity is irrelevant.

Laws within themselves are socialist. You heard it here folks!

Quote
Sure, me...or anyone like me across the globe.

So its a GLOBAL socialist conspiracy now. Me thinks you need to stop watching so much Glenn Beck.

Quote
The reduction of opposition is essential to gaining power. Disarming the strength of an opponent to inflict violence upon you or your followers is "the cause". The most tyrannical individuals in the history of the planet all share this same doctrine of socialism as the means. That is a cold, hard fact a smarmy ***** like you will never be able to distort.


There have been lots of Dictators in the history of the world, even before Marx. You still havent shown me
any sort of causation.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2011, 06:11:31 PM »
Nazis Germany
Soviet Union
Maoist China
Khmer Rouge Cambodia
North Korea
Burma/Myanmar
Mengistu Ethiopia
Baathist Iraq
Baathist Syria

Hmmmmmmm. What they have in common? They are all socialists!
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Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2011, 06:15:01 PM »
Nazis Germany
Soviet Union
Maoist China
Khmer Rouge Cambodia
North Korea
Burma/Myanmar
Mengistu Ethiopia
Baathist Iraq
Baathist Syria

Hmmmmmmm. What they have in common? They are all socialists!

No one is arguing that Socialism isnt a stupid system. Just dont start spouting stupid shit about centralized national police and taking away guns.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2011, 06:34:36 PM »
I did do my homework.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

Now do you have anything to add that will support your case or criticize mine or are we just exchanging plesantries here?

You are a complete moron, evidently. And apparently you have to be shown just how stupid you are.

No problem, I have a few minutes to oblige. First, you said this:

Quote
But there are lots of non-socialist nations that dont have guns(The UK), as well as socialist countries that do have guns(Switzerland) and there is no doctrine within the ideology of Socialism that I can find(mabye you can find it for me) that calls of disarming the populace.

The bolded part is why you got bitchslapped. And that's why you're getting bitchslapped again.

I'd engage in your conversation, but since you're having your ass handed to you so easily by Odin's Hand, I'll just observe.  :popcorn:

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Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2011, 06:35:33 PM »
You are a complete moron, evidently. And apparently you have to be shown just how stupid you are.

No problem, I have a few minutes to oblige. First, you said this:

The bolded part is why you got bitchslapped. And that's why you're getting bitchslapped again.

I'd engage in your conversation, but since you're having your ass handed to you so easily by Odin's Hand, I'll just observe.  :popcorn:

How do you figure that?
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Offline Eupher

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2011, 07:05:56 PM »
How do you figure that?

 :rotf:

I rest my case.

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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2011, 09:31:24 PM »
Laws within themselves are socialist. You heard it here folks!

Laws are a social contract. They exist to the end that the suppression of liberty by ALL within their national scope must be adhered to. In Switzerland, to adhere to this law is the suppression of an individual's liberty to own a firearm without a blessing by the state government unless the citizen is a resource of the state (militiaman) and executes the commands of the government fully.

Quote
So its a GLOBAL socialist conspiracy now. Me thinks you need to stop watching so much Glenn Beck.

Yep...ever hear of the U.N? You know, that "governing" entity liberals like yourself worship? You know, UNODA and their Arms Trade/Small Arms Treaty? Yeah, that's what you call "global".

Recently, we even had Washington D.C. try to ban arms from citizen's ownership, outside of government officials security details, etc. until it was struck down in Heller vs. the District of Columbia

Quote
There have been lots of Dictators in the history of the world, even before Marx. You still havent shown me
any sort of causation.

Yet, every single socialist that rises to nationalistic power seems to be vehemenant in installing weapon limitations on undesirables. That was the premise of your first smart-assed comment. You stated that no "socialist documents advocated taking away firearms from citizens". I provided quotes and historical examples of where they did and you still disregard them. It's simple, if the ownership of arms doesn't serve these dictator's desires, they remove the weapons by force (Waffen-SS, NKVD/KGB Directorates, Stasi, Red Guard, etc.)

To end, I'll quote Marx himself when he said in his "10 Planks of Communism" from the Communist Manifesto..."Confiscation of the property (weaponry especially) of all emigrants and rebels."

and also Thomas Jefferson's quote of "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"~Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, pg. 334


"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

"Generally speaking, the "Way of the Warrior" is resolute acceptance of death."~ Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2011, 09:47:18 PM »

Yet, every single socialist that rises to nationalistic power seems to be vehemenant in installing weapon limitations on undesirables. That was the premise of your first smart-assed comment. You stated that no "socialist documents advocated taking away firearms from citizens". I provided quotes and historical examples of where they did and you still disregard them. It's simple, if the ownership of arms doesn't serve these dictator's desires, they remove the weapons by force (Waffen-SS, NKVD/KGB Directorates, Stasi, Red Guard, etc.)

To end, I'll quote Marx himself when he said in his "10 Planks of Communism" from the Communist Manifesto..."Confiscation of the property (weaponry especially) of all emigrants and rebels."

But they were not exclusively socialists. They were also authoritarians and dictators. I gave you an example of a non-authoritarian socialist state which allowed gun ownership. What I am arguing is that the confiscation of Firearms is not something inherent in Socialism.

You added the "(weaponry especially)" to that. If you look at the other "planks" youll find things like the abolishment of inheritance and abolishing the distinction between city and country and other things I dont think most socialists in the west seriously advocate.
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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2011, 09:21:55 AM »
But they were not exclusively socialists. They were also authoritarians and dictators. I gave you an example of a non-authoritarian socialist state which allowed gun ownership. What I am arguing is that the confiscation of Firearms is not something inherent in Socialism.

You added the "(weaponry especially)" to that. If you look at the other "planks" youll find things like the abolishment of inheritance and abolishing the distinction between city and country and other things I dont think most socialists in the west seriously advocate.

BS, Switzerland is not a "socialist government". They hold free elections regularly, have a MULTI-party legislature (a violation of Marxism's "one people, one party"), and their personal, marginal tax rates are below 50%.


Remember this do ya? When the government tried to disarm the nation? It was shot down in a national referendum by the citizens of the nation.

http://militaryarms.blogspot.com/2011/02/swiss-to-lose-their-rifles.html

Let's see what a "Western Socialist" like Hugo Chavez has to say on these issues.

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/17/venezuela-congress-grants-hugo-chavez-decree-powers/

"Rule by decree". Don't like it? You can rot in prison then.

http://www.hispanicprwire.com/News/in/14012/10/venezuelan-president-hugo-chavez-confronted-on-political-prisoners-at-summit-of

This is socialism in practice today as it has been since it's inception. You may live in a fantasy land of words and not actions, but this the actions of the modern, Western socialist.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 09:31:15 AM by Odin's Hand »
"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

"Generally speaking, the "Way of the Warrior" is resolute acceptance of death."~ Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2011, 11:33:16 AM »
But they were not exclusively socialists. They were also authoritarians and dictators. I gave you an example of a non-authoritarian socialist state which allowed gun ownership. What I am arguing is that the confiscation of Firearms is not something inherent in Socialism.

You added the "(weaponry especially)" to that. If you look at the other "planks" youll find things like the abolishment of inheritance and abolishing the distinction between city and country and other things I dont think most socialists in the west seriously advocate.

Socialism is collectivism. All collectivist governments end up at the authoritarian end of the political spectrum no matter how well intentioned they begin, and authoritarianism requires that the citizenry have a disadvantage in firepower versus the police and/or military. Under collectivism, only the group (nation/race/religion/ideology/majority) has rights. Not individuals.

The National Firearms Act of stripped the citizenry of the right to possess class-three weapons manufactured after 1986. After hurricane Katrina, our semi-socialized government disarmed the residents of New Orleans their firearms. Those who think it cannot happen here are blind.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 11:40:44 AM by Attero Dominatus »
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Offline Hella Jeff

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2011, 12:38:26 PM »
Id like to just restate that Im not at all for Gun Control or Socialism. I just think its stupid that people keep drawing that conclusion. There ARE gun control advocates and there ARE socialists who want to implement their agenda. But this kind of paranoid wacking off isnt the way to stop them, in fact it HELPS them by making those on the Right look like nutjobs(I still to this day think Glenn Beck is a liberal plant. No one is that stupid on accident).

We have to argue with them on their own terms, we have to argue against the actual arguments they are making(No socialist in the western world is arguing for a national police force to round up dissidents). The reason we do that is if we go "WELL THATS WHAT HE SAYS BUT WHAT HE REALLY MEANS IS______" then the debate is pointless. Then they can pull the same thing on us "THEYRE REALLY JUST RACISTS" "THEY JUST HATE POOR PEOPLE" and then the discussion goes nowhere, its not a discussion at all its just name calling.
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Offline Bertram

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2011, 08:12:18 AM »
Socialism seems pretty cool until you meet actual party affiliated socialists. Those ****ers are crazy.

Offline cattlebaron

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2012, 05:26:23 AM »
It's humorous how liberals always attempt to distance themselves from their like-minded ilk in the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei simply because their ethos was of white racial purity and the context of the day is to enslave those of other races outside of Caucasian in the U.S. to the modern Democrats' party banner.

I love reminding liberals of this. They always stand in shock after hearing the Nazis were socialists. It's true and political spin and the media has warped peoples minds so that they'll forget. Professors in colleges have something to do with the spin as well of course.

Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: A MUST READ: Why Socialism Always Results in Tyrannical Rule
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2013, 04:33:30 AM »
Very interesting to read this thread since the coronation of Emperor Obinga.  All that stuff that the banned liberals posting here, were screaming would never happen?

Guess what?  Like it was put in overdrive.

 
:ownit:
You stupid bastards


Quote
 The basic tenants of socialism are:
1. Seduce the populace into accepting the government as the arbitrator of all problems; government from cradle-to-grave
2. Begin delivering on those services to make the citizens dependent
3. Take away the citizens' guns
4. Increase taxes on all services while destroying any free market alternative services
5. Blame the chosen scapegoat for the inability to meet demand for services
6. Have the centralized national police force round up any dissidents
  

1.  Went to plaid starting in '09.

2.  ObingaCare.  Own it.

3.  Boy, are you little assholes trying.

4.  ObingaCare.  Own it.  It's whole purpose is to destroy the private insurance industry.

5.  Blame the Tea Party.  For everything.

6.  This is happening.  Disbelieve it, at your peril.

Nice list.  Very prescient.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 04:35:38 AM by 98ZJUSMC »
              

Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

"Accuse others of what you do." - Karl Marx