Author Topic: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’  (Read 2543 times)

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Offline Ptarmigan

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David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« on: December 14, 2014, 08:48:37 PM »
David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/12/14/david-koch-im-basically-a-libertarian/

Quote
In an exclusive interview clip aired Sunday morning on ABC’s "This Week," reclusive billionaire and campaign mega-donor David Koch said he cares much more about fiscal issues and the economy than about social issues — on which he described himself as “a social liberal.”

Koch, who along with his brother Charles donates millions of dollars each year to the political campaigns of conservatives and political action committees, rarely grants interviews and spoke with ABC’s Barbara Walters as part of a year-long special that will air Sunday night.

The left really hates David Koch and he is a social liberal. I wonder how they will take this.  :lmao:
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 01:44:39 AM »
This whole social lib fiscal conservative is a red herring.
if you take a principled stand on one it completely negates the other.
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Offline docstew

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 04:00:37 AM »
This whole social lib fiscal conservative is a red herring.
if you take a principled stand on one it completely negates the other.

I would have to disagree. If our argument is that the left shouldn't be able to tell us how to live our lives and spend taxpayer (aka our) money as they want, then the same argument applies to us. We shouldn't be able to tell them how to live their lives. We SHOULD be able to install consequences for bad decisions (i.e. You don't want to get a job? Fine, but we're only giving you welfare for two years total in your lifetime OR You want to smoke pot? Fine, but businesses don't have to hire you). I don't see how one negates the other.

My view is "Don't tell me how to live or spend my money, I won't tell you how to live or spend your money. Government is just there to provide the playing field, not pick the winners."

Offline obumazombie

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 08:33:04 AM »
Socially liberal would be a whole basket of issues that you would support
Vote buying
Abortion
In your face homosexuality including gay marriage
Income redistribution
Socialized medicine
Separation of church and state
Affirmative action
Property usurpation
Gun control
Drug decriminalization
Open borders
Social justice elevated over criminal justice
Sharply curtailed if not complete elimination of military

These are a few just off the top of my head.
Now how would you go about separating being in favor of those issues without allowing any tax money to be spent to support them ?
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Offline Eupher

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2014, 10:03:52 AM »
I would have to disagree. If our argument is that the left shouldn't be able to tell us how to live our lives and spend taxpayer (aka our) money as they want, then the same argument applies to us. We shouldn't be able to tell them how to live their lives. We SHOULD be able to install consequences for bad decisions (i.e. You don't want to get a job? Fine, but we're only giving you welfare for two years total in your lifetime OR You want to smoke pot? Fine, but businesses don't have to hire you). I don't see how one negates the other.

My view is "Don't tell me how to live or spend my money, I won't tell you how to live or spend your money. Government is just there to provide the playing field, not pick the winners."

Government shouldn't be in the morals business. After all, my morals and sense of ethics probably differ from somebody else's, at least in certain areas. They're also difficult to quantify and define. And yet the government is in the morals business, rather selectively:

•   Abortion – permitted. Reprehensible by any measure, the government does not prohibit a woman from killing the baby inside her. Pro-lifers are outraged that the government permits this, even demanding that the government have an obligation to protect the unborn. Pro-choicers are outraged that the government interferes at all with their bodily functions. Choicers believe that having a baby is a bodily function whereas Lifers believe that the gift of pregnancy is a blessing from God.

•   Marriage – morally defined as a union between a man and woman, the definition has been altered by social liberals who don’t think that two men “marrying” each other doesn’t drag down society at large. Ultimately, I believe that practice does. Government in many states now permits same-sex “marriage.” Apparently civil unions aren’t enough – same-sex “marriage” advocates have to invade the sanctity of marriage, that social and religious contract historically made between a man and woman.

•   Drug use – notwithstanding the fact that alcohol, a legal drug, has much more of a negative impact on our society than does recreational drug use, government prohibits certain substances that alter reality. That brake helps provide at least a measure of a moral compass. Decisions to violate the law currently have consequences beyond employment and our prisons are filled with examples of violators. So what went wrong? A demand exists, despite the law, and a market will meet that demand, irrespective of consequences. Should a society cave into a “demand” made by those who use illicit drugs? Purely for a tax benefit? Should a society turn a blind eye to illicit drug use, preferring to have business leaders prohibit a practice that, if that prohibition is violated, leads to the end of employment?

•   Safety and food purity - about 100 years ago, Upton Sinclair wrote a book called “The Jungle” which spotlighted the Chicago meatpacking industry. Horrific, incredibly unsafe work practices and filthy food processing centers were common. Government decided to have a role in protecting the public health when it enacted federal laws and agencies.

All of these comments above are jumbled and less than coherent, for the simple reason that there is no magic answer to this very sticky issue and difference between social liberals and social conservatives.

Bottom line: I don’t need government to provide me my moral compass. But I’d be less than honest if I said that a practice that has been determined as illegal does not affect my participation in that practice. It does. I avoid illegal behavior because I don't want the ramifications of that illegal behavior. That transcends a decision made by an employer, a doctor, or any other single person. The law speaks loudly to me.

Young people in particular need some help in this area. They don’t get all that they need from their parents, clergy, other adults. There is a role for government to play. We differ in how pervasive that role is.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 11:05:15 AM »
Any governing body has to make judgement calls about what is allowed and what isn't.
That judgement is based on the culture and human morality.
Morality doesn't come from man, and it never changes.
Libs don't believe a lot of what they assert, they just declare it.
Libs are deviously dishonest with themselves and others.
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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 12:29:20 PM »
Quote
  “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

– John Adams
 

I agree with this quote.

Look what is happening in DC at this moment. Constitution is being ignored by liars, and criminals.
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Offline docstew

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 11:48:01 PM »
I agree with this quote.

Look what is happening in DC at this moment. Constitution is being ignored by liars, and criminals.
.

But in the process of the Constitution being ignored, there are now enough laws on the books to reasonably be able to charge everyone with a felony or serious misdemeanor. We are now free not by virtue of being upright American citizens, but because the government hasdeclined to prosecute.

Offline Big Dog

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 08:45:14 AM »
But in the process of the Constitution being ignored, there are now enough laws on the books to reasonably be able to charge everyone with a felony or serious misdemeanor. We are now free not by virtue of being upright American citizens, but because the government has declined to prosecute.

How right you are, brother. Gibson Guitars can attest to that.

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Offline obumazombie

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 10:09:14 AM »
The more I become familiar with Ayn Rand, the more I realize why the libs hate her.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2014, 01:26:47 PM »
Government shouldn't be in the morals business. After all, my morals and sense of ethics probably differ from somebody else's, at least in certain areas. They're also difficult to quantify and define. And yet the government is in the morals business, rather selectively:

•   Abortion – permitted. Reprehensible by any measure, the government does not prohibit a woman from killing the baby inside her. Pro-lifers are outraged that the government permits this, even demanding that the government have an obligation to protect the unborn. Pro-choicers are outraged that the government interferes at all with their bodily functions. Choicers believe that having a baby is a bodily function whereas Lifers believe that the gift of pregnancy is a blessing from God.

•   Marriage – morally defined as a union between a man and woman, the definition has been altered by social liberals who don’t think that two men “marrying” each other doesn’t drag down society at large. Ultimately, I believe that practice does. Government in many states now permits same-sex “marriage.” Apparently civil unions aren’t enough – same-sex “marriage” advocates have to invade the sanctity of marriage, that social and religious contract historically made between a man and woman.

•   Drug use – notwithstanding the fact that alcohol, a legal drug, has much more of a negative impact on our society than does recreational drug use, government prohibits certain substances that alter reality. That brake helps provide at least a measure of a moral compass. Decisions to violate the law currently have consequences beyond employment and our prisons are filled with examples of violators. So what went wrong? A demand exists, despite the law, and a market will meet that demand, irrespective of consequences. Should a society cave into a “demand” made by those who use illicit drugs? Purely for a tax benefit? Should a society turn a blind eye to illicit drug use, preferring to have business leaders prohibit a practice that, if that prohibition is violated, leads to the end of employment?

•   Safety and food purity - about 100 years ago, Upton Sinclair wrote a book called “The Jungle” which spotlighted the Chicago meatpacking industry. Horrific, incredibly unsafe work practices and filthy food processing centers were common. Government decided to have a role in protecting the public health when it enacted federal laws and agencies.

All of these comments above are jumbled and less than coherent, for the simple reason that there is no magic answer to this very sticky issue and difference between social liberals and social conservatives.

Bottom line: I don’t need government to provide me my moral compass. But I’d be less than honest if I said that a practice that has been determined as illegal does not affect my participation in that practice. It does. I avoid illegal behavior because I don't want the ramifications of that illegal behavior. That transcends a decision made by an employer, a doctor, or any other single person. The law speaks loudly to me.

Young people in particular need some help in this area. They don’t get all that they need from their parents, clergy, other adults. There is a role for government to play. We differ in how pervasive that role is.


I agree what you say. The left just gets all bent out of shape with Koch brothers. Of course, why would they change. They will still get all riled up as they like big government.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: David Koch: ‘I’m basically a libertarian’
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2014, 01:39:21 PM »
I probably need to read that book by Upton Sinclair.
His name sounds familiar.
I may have written something else he has written.
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.