DUmmy Scared Of RW Militias

[Dori]

Ah, Dummy projection at it's finest. But I like the idea that some are a least concerned about pushing too far.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024848368

Star Member Savannahmann (2,522 posts)

Why are you people trying to start a war that no one will win?

I ask this in all honesty. I've been thinking about it for a week now. You people are out of your ****ing minds. Let's begin with the Bundy Ranch shall we? What we were dealing with was not a Tea Party nut, nor a RW Tool, but a Sovereign Citizen. But so many here were foolish, and so many more in the media, and even Harry Reid was an idiot just a couple days ago.

The handful of nuts of the Sovereign Citizen movement have been praying for this day, when their fringe beliefs were associated in the mainstream media and especially by the Political Elite with RW idealism.

I've read several people on this site who suggested that these RW types would crap their pants if the shooting started. Some even put forth the story that Bundy was planning on using women as a human shield. Guys, you have no idea what you are dealing with. You have no ****ing idea what you're up against, and you were clamoring for a bloodbath in the hopes it would teach the world a lesson and be rid of a few RW Gun nuts.

Look at the pictures again. Look at the video again. The "militia" types were wearing the same kind of body armor that the Agents wear. Some were even wearing better armor.

See the guy with the cowboy hat? His vest can be found here. http://www.ar500armor.com/operator-ii-plate-carrier-w-armor-and-pouches-coyote.html#.U1QRtMjD-M8

That vest will stop any rifle round short of a .50 Cal BMG round. That by the way tends to be much better than the class 3A armor worn by police. Those vests will stop only pistol rounds.

But so many of you were clamoring for a show of force, to show them who was boss. But what if the Federal Agents would have lost? Have you considered that? No, you all figured that at the first round the RW types would crap their pants and surrender.

The thing is this, a bunch of those militia guys are Veterans. That means the Government trained them to fight too. With more than a decade of Afghanistan and Iraq we have hundreds of thousands, even millions of Vets with combat experience. You have to assume that some of them were there, and they know how to fight, and they've done it in the past.

But either way the "war" turned out it would be a win for the RW. If the Federal Agents did win, they would have martyrs and video of the fighting for weeks of watching on You Tube. The Sovereign Citizen's would see a boost in their membership, and that's the last thing any of us need. Democrats would take an even bigger hit in the polls because it's our side out there demanding that the Federal Government get tough with a rancher.

But let's say for the sake of argument that you got your massacre. Then what? Every nut who knew someone there would be looking for revenge. They don't need the internet to organize, they are already organized gang. We'd have a civil war as we're going into an election season. Oh you could cancel the election, if you really wanted to throw fuel on the fire.

I don't know who at the BLM made the decision. Whoever it was, has my respect. Because they were smarter than just about all of you here. They recognized that if they continued they would be lucky to pull out a Pyhrric victory, and if they were unlucky, they would have lost the first battle of the second civil war.

Because either way it turned out, the population would be even more upset at the Federal Government. One of our users here posted a thread that we didn't have the forces to fight in the Ukraine against Russia. How many troops would we have for a domestic war? As soon as President Obama declared martial law, the war would be on and it would be one where everyone lost. By the time the dust settled, there wouldn't be a United States any more. There wouldn't be any group strong enough to maintain control over the entire nation, and if you think the Military or National Guard is plenty strong enough, think again. There are more than 300 million people in this nation. I doubt that you could field ten million including law enforcement and military organizations. So entire swaths of the nation would be lost, and what then? Ask for help from Foreign Militaries? Drive a few more into the ranks of the rebels why don't you?

I'm starting to wonder what planet you people live on, because you have no idea what is going on here on Earth. There is a movement called the 3%. These people are of the opinion that the Revolutionary War was won when 3% of the population was involved. Now many of you will decide that this is a real fringe movement.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=3+percenter&_frs=1 Yep, pretty fringe gang. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=iii#/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=3+percenter&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A3+percenter

So the next time you people are out there clamoring for the authorities to teach someone a lesson. Try and figure out what you're talking about, so the ones learning the lesson isn't us. Because this crap with the Bundy Ranch could blow up in our faces very quickly, and most of you are utterly clueless about what is going on because all you do is read other Liberals sites where you fantasize about how popular Democrats are and how fringe the RW is.

Limbaugh isn't failing in the radio business because he's too radical. He's failing because he's not radical enough for the RW today. They can get much more rhetoric from a number or sites on the web than they can from Limbaugh. Republicans are about to take the Senate Back, and besides denouncing those who warn you that the polling is showing this disastrous outcome, you all are just bouncing up and down because with Obamacare we're popular again. I read History, a lot of history. Do you want to know why the Pearl Harbor attack was successful? It wasn't because of a failure of intelligence to share information. Nor the failures of the commanders. It was ego plain and simple. We couldn't imagine the Japanese who we considered to be backward and buck toothed glasses wearing imbeciles being able to pull off such an attack. Even after the Battleships were sunk and burning we spent years pretending that the only way that the Japanese could pull it off was with help from the Nazi Germans.

I see the same mentality today, the idea that "they" wouldn't dare, and if they did, so much the better for us. The last thing we need is for anything to unite these people. So stop thinking that it's going to be easy to teach them a lesson. These folks are dangerous, and we need to keep them separate where the threat is one from various individuals, that we can deal with carefully and quietly. But a shootout in Nevada would have sparked a civil war, and nobody would have won that.

 

[Carl]

Stupid Savannahmann,you should know that logic,sense and reality are poisonous at the DUmp.

[ExGeeEye]

 

[dutch508]

arcane1 (22,620 posts)
4. I'm not afraid of traitors too stupid to know the law, or the Constitution.

You're playing into their hands by trying to make us afraid.

I am pretty sure those 'crazy RW nutz' know the law one hell of a lot better than you.

NADIN GETS IT!!!!!!!! ... BECAUSE...... **** YOU, THATS WHY!!!!!

nadinbrzezinski (132,893 posts)
27. Look, I get it

I do not read the other side, I get unfiltered, 100% directly from folks in the field ok. So yes, I have been regaled with stories and how they are going to defeat the US Government and how they do not pay taxes... I could go on.

That said, they see this backing down as a victory, as the shot around the world, as their 4th of July and as a way to wake up the masses.

They are dangerous, but you do not back down from yes, terrorists. And I give Harry Reid credit, he deals with these asshats regularly.

Now let me tell you a real story. We covered a meet your pol on Saturday, because of these asshats we actually had a talk on exit strategies and how to survive. Guess what? It was one of those where GIffords was shot.

What you are asking all is to curl up and surrender, essentially.

Now what you said about media, mostly true, but that is because media in the race to get the scoop, rarely does any of the background anymore. I did a lot of that way back and continue these days due to these ass hats. So yes I know the differences between the sovereign, the militias, (they are not necessary the same) the oath-keepers, and a few others.

And they got wings, and they will now go on and do more damage. The Turner Diaries presupposed an attack on a Federal building. Why McVeign, a member of the sovereign movement, went after OKC. I do not expect the second american revolution to emerge from these guys. On the other hand, I expect a lot of violence, and something more like the infitadah and not the formations of the civil war.

And no, asking people to back down because the scary people have better body armor than the beat cops is like asking people to back down because the beat cops had 38s and the bad guys had automatics. You and I know how PDs responded to that. 

 

notadmblnd (18,150 posts)
13. Excuse me? Seems to me the only people that were itching for a showdown are you rightwing types

And the ones that said they were going to put the women and children out front are the asswipes that joined Bundy at his ranch.

nadinbrzezinski (132,893 posts)
15. I know who the sovereign types are

tell me, ultimately, did Timothy McVeigh win? I did not know OKC started that civil war either. Or that they arrested every fed in sight.

The problem with this logic is that sooner or later that confrontation will happen. You prefer people just fall and turn into the fetal position?

Yes, they are well equipped, we go back into why we should not allow MIlSpec gear into the hands of civies. That said, thanks for the link, I need to find one that says press, for the inevitable day when all this, but, but but, leads to an actual shooting war.

 

Response to Savannahmann (Original post)
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
 Bigmack (7,077 posts)
33. That's the problem with Liberals...

... they can generally see more than one side of a situation. The knee-jerk Right doesn't have any of that complicated-thought-process thing going on, so things are simpler for them.

I see:

1) A terrible situation if the Feds back off in any way. It encourages the nuts. They're slow, but they can learn. If the Feds backed down (in their eyes) because of a show of force, they'll use that tactic again and again until something big blows.

Speaking of "sovereign"... if the Federal government is not sovereign... that is... if it doesn't enforce the laws and control the fringe...well, it's not "sovereign".

In the Whiskey Rebellion, Washington rode at the head of the troops putting the rebellion down. With overwhelming force, the rebels disbursed.

2) A terrible situation if the Feds go in with force. Somebody is gonna get killed. The nutjobs will have their martyrs...and we lose some good officers.

So... this is a real shit sandwich. ****ed either way.

A possible way out..? I have an imperfect plan. Arrest everybody connected with this shit quietly. Send them to Fed detention centers spread across the country. The "plaid shirt" guy set up on the overpass has his name all over his picture on the web. Him first. 4AM...overwhelming force.

IRS them to death. Pressure employers. Child protective service them to death... kids are in danger with all that firepower. Any deadbeat dads? Traffic tickets? License tabs up to date? Anybody here want to assure me that shit like that doesn't already happen?

Weak...? Yup. Chickenshit...? Yup. Go ahead and tell me I'm ****ed up. But. Have a realistic plan to put forward on how the government is supposed to act in dealing with armed thugs when you do.

Waiting for the "sovereign citizens" to get older and slower and more moderate just ain't gonna work. This is their hour... they think. The Feds are on the run!

nadinbrzezinski (132,893 posts)
50. Do not forget about the other April 20th, that matters to some of these asshats

Hitler's Birthday

GODDWIN!!!!

nadinbrzezinski (132,893 posts)
52. Oh for frak's face, Bundy IS a Sovereign Citizen

and all this fracas comes from refusing to pay land use fees for 20+ years. And yes, he used the terms where he refused to admit the sovereignty of the Federal Government. He said that his family had been on that land before the feds, which is classic sovereign crap.

As to the rest, you seriously believe there are even close parallels to the Ukraine here? REALLY? Here is a square peg, try to fit it in the round hole.

 

 Frak Yeah!

[I_B_Perky]

Response to Savannahmann (Original post)
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
 Bigmack (7,077 posts)
33. That's the problem with Liberals...

... they can generally see more than one side of a situation. The knee-jerk Right doesn't have any of that complicated-thought-process thing going on, so things are simpler for them.

 

OK dummie... let us play a little game. This game is called who knows more: Dummie libs or Conservatives.

1. Who runs to an internet forum whenever they have the least little household problem like a leaky faucet?
2. Who cannot seem to hold a job?
3. Who cannot seem to keep a place of residence?
4. Who depends on the government for their sustenance?
5. Who goes off the deep end whenever anyone says something you don't agree it and bans same?
6. Who cannot seem to keep a vehicle operating?
7. Who pays absolutely no taxes?
8. Who has more mentally ill folks?

If you answered dummies, you are a winner!!!! Seems to me that folks here at that CC can survive on our own, so what does that tell us dummie? That we got more brains than you. Lots more brains than you.

[Skul]

Wordy little twerp, isn't s/h/it?
Industrial strength Depends, won't keep that wet in.

[Zathras]

DUmbass bigmac shows once again how idiots on the left are in love with repressive government.

[USA4ME]

Bigmack

That's the problem with Liberals they can generally see more than one side of a situation. The knee-jerk Right doesn't have any of that complicated-thought-process thing going on, so things are simpler for them.

A possible way out..? I have an imperfect plan. Arrest everybody connected with this shit quietly. Send them to Fed detention centers spread across the country. The "plaid shirt" guy set up on the overpass has his name all over his picture on the web. Him first. 4AM...overwhelming force.

IRS them to death. Pressure employers. Child protective service them to death... kids are in danger with all that firepower. Any deadbeat dads? Traffic tickets? License tabs up to date?

Remember, this is the plan from someone who views themself as having "that complicated-thought-process thing going on."

 

.

[NHSparky]

Ask yourself, DUmmies: Who do you fear more?

1--Government and supporters of same who want to take away individual freedom?

2--People who want to keep it?

[obumazombie]

frak's face is certainly crunchy for frak's sake.
Word salad anyone ?

[DumbAss Tanker]

nadinbrzezinski (132,893 posts)
27. ...

That said, they see this backing down as a victory, as the shot around the world, as their 4th of July and as a way to wake up the masses.

...yammer, yammer, yammer...

What does Yuri Gagarin have to do with this?

 

[Airwolf]

Dumbasses talking about things they know nothing about once again. Especially El Guapo, She talked enough shit to fertilize a whole state. The Feds Lost because they and Dingy Harry were getting bad press and it was going to get worse.

[HawkHogan]

Blah blah blah, when is Nadin going to discuss Mcveigh's connections with Muslims?

[98ZJUSMC]

Response to Savannahmann (Original post)
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
 Bigmack (7,077 posts)
33. That's the problem with Liberals...

... they can generally see more than one side of a situation. The knee-jerk Right doesn't have any of that complicated-thought-process thing going on, so things are simpler for them.

   

OK dummie... let us play a little game. This game is called who knows more: Dummie libs or Conservatives.

1. Who runs to an internet forum whenever they have the least little household problem like a leaky faucet?
2. Who cannot seem to hold a job?
3. Who cannot seem to keep a place of residence?
4. Who depends on the government for their sustenance?
5. Who goes off the deep end whenever anyone says something you don't agree it and bans same?
6. Who cannot seem to keep a vehicle operating?
7. Who pays absolutely no taxes?
8. Who has more mentally ill folks?

If you answered dummies, you are a winner!!!! Seems to me that folks here at that CC can survive on our own, so what does that tell us dummie? That we got more brains than you. Lots more brains than you.

*long sigh*  I do love it when the half-wits try to defer to some higher plane of intellect they have been told they inhabit and, by all empirical observation and experience, in no way possess.

Wordy little twerp, isn't s/h/it?
Industrial strength Depends, won't keep that wet in.

If you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance, baffle them with a word gumbo full of bullshit that goes off in three different directions with randomly placed non-sequiturs thrown in for multi-cultural diversity, ....or some shit.   

[98ZJUSMC]

Ask yourself, DUmmies: Who do you fear more?

1--Government and supporters of same who want to take away individual freedom?

2--People who want to keep it?

The problem is, the do not and likely never will, ever understand the question.

[GOBUCKS]

What does Yuri Gagarin have to do with this?

Who's Yuri Gagarin?

Bobby Thomson hit the shot heard round the world.

[diesel driver]

Who's Yuri Gagarin?

Bobby Thomson hit the shot heard round the world.

Yuri was a Russian cosmonaut and the first human into space. 

Leave it to a DUmmie to list a commie accomplishment over an American one. 

[wasp69]

Poor Savannahmann, tried to inject a little common sense into the cesspool and got kicked in his ass...    

Response to Savannahmann (Original post)
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
 Bigmack (7,077 posts)
33. That's the problem with Liberals...

... they can generally see more than one side of a situation. The knee-jerk Right doesn't have any of that complicated-thought-process thing going on, so things are simpler for them.

A glittering example of why the self esteem curriculum was such a failure.

In the Whiskey Rebellion, Washington rode at the head of the troops putting the rebellion down. With overwhelming force, the rebels disbursed.

Oh yeah, absolute genius, this one.   

According to this DUmbass, when Washington and the militiamen showed up, the protesting farmers paid them.  Or, at least, that's what this Einstein is trying to tell us with its choice of words...

I see:

1) A terrible situation if the Feds back off in any way. It encourages the nuts. They're slow, but they can learn. If the Feds backed down (in their eyes) because of a show of force, they'll use that tactic again and again until something big blows.

2) A terrible situation if the Feds go in with force. Somebody is gonna get killed. The nutjobs will have their martyrs...and we lose some good officers.

So... this is a real shit sandwich. ****ed either way.

Well now, that is a bit of a pickle for the democratics in such a crucial election year.  I think a smart idea would be to negotiate a bit of a more fair deal with a rancher who has been grazing his cattle on "federal land" and recover the past due fees without looking like a bunch of fascists, but I'm a bit old fashioned in my "government by the people, of the people, for the people" line of thinking.

What solution did this Jonas Salk come up with?

A possible way out..? I have an imperfect plan. Arrest everybody connected with this shit quietly. Send them to Fed detention centers spread across the country. The "plaid shirt" guy set up on the overpass has his name all over his picture on the web. Him first. 4AM...overwhelming force.

And if the raid doesn't go so well?  If a standoff ensues?  What then, stupid? 

Not a good plan if you're trying to keep from making martyrs, DUmbass...

IRS them to death. Pressure employers. Child protective service them to death... kids are in danger with all that firepower. Any deadbeat dads? Traffic tickets? License tabs up to date? Anybody here want to assure me that shit like that doesn't already happen?

Tell me how that's working out for obinga right now?  Going good?  Keeping it nice and quiet, out of the media and all that?

 

For such a "complicated thinker", your straight line logic sure does need some work.  Simple cause and effect should put the brakes on any stupid idea like that, but, you're a DUmmie, soooo....

Our government was never intended to be wielded against We, The People, at the whim of a politician.  In fact, there are laws in place that prevent that very thing from happening.  That you support such corruption is not surprising.

Weak...? Yup. Chickenshit...? Yup. Go ahead and tell me I'm ****ed up. But. Have a realistic plan to put forward on how the government is supposed to act in dealing with armed thugs when you do.

And what happens on the day your fascist heroes no longer control the government?  What happens when all of the machinations you helped put into place are turned against you?

Then what, stupid?

I would personally never see this type of behavior from the government so no one gets to do it, but I'm not a flaming moron that was told by mommy one too many times it was "so smart" and "special".

Waiting for the "sovereign citizens" to get older and slower and more moderate just ain't gonna work.

You could always try to get them to kill their unborn children and shorten their lives with copious amounts of illegal drugs - that's what you "complicated thinkers" know how to do.

This is their hour... they think. The Feds are on the run!

No, DUmbass, they don't.  They're not as short sighted as you mental cripples, they know better.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Who's Yuri Gagarin?

Bobby Thomson hit the shot heard round the world.

Bobby who?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Oh yeah, absolute genius, this one.   

According to this DUmbass, when Washington and the militiamen showed up, the protesting farmers paid them.  Or, at least, that's what this Einstein is trying to tell us with its choice of words...

Nads studied history under Professor Irwin Corey.

[obumazombie]

Bobby who?

Of course I've heard of Yuri. Bobby...no. I'm not going to even try to look it up.

[SVPete]

Like the old liberal anthem says,

Paranoia strikes deep

Into your life it will creep

It starts when you're always afraid

The man com and take you away

At least Stephen Stills, et al, recognized this potential (and sometimes real) problem among those of their POV.

[Wineslob]

That's the problem with Liberals...

Yes

[Delmar]

Response to Savannahmann (Original post)Mon Apr 21, 2014, 01:01 PM
MicaelS (5,443 posts)
132. Superb post.

I really do think some here want a war. They want to punish the Right Wing at any cost.

Of course given how many here absolutely loathe guns and the "gun culture", they of course, would never pick up a gun and use it to defend the country. They also hate cops, and would never become one.

Rather than put on the uniform and risk their life, limb, health, safety, sully their soul, karma and hands with blood, they would rather tell some poor bastard, just trying to make a living, to go and do their fighting and dying for them, while oh so piously remaining in the background and resting on their idealism.

In short, they resemble the Chickenhawks on the Right who claim their patriotism at every opportunity, but avoid serving in the military because "they're too valuable". So I guess that makes them Chickenhawks of the Left.

         Barack Hussein O'Chickenhawk

[Airwolf]

I seemed to have overlooked that part of EL guapos post saying no one should own mil spec gear. Well if that's the case then her ever widening ass needs to unload her scanner, her bowie knife and nomex monkey suit because she has no use for that type of equipment as a freelance writer for a free weekly bird cage liner