Gravitycollapse (5,729 posts)
I think we need to reframe this entire Hobby Lobby issue...
I think it's everyone's right to believe in whatever they want. Even if what they believe is definitionally the opposite of reason. Most religious belief falls under this opposition to reason as faith exists outside of the bounds of what can and cannot be proven logically.
Thusly, I think it is about time we stop giving credence to the "religious freedom" argument denying women contraception coverage. Instead, we should sit down the leadership for these companies and ask them a simple question:
"Do you possess any observable evidence that your religious beliefs are objectively true?"
When they answer no, and they will have to in order to be correct, we should dismiss the entirety of their claims on the grounds that the observable health needs and rights of women, being real, trump mythology.
I'm tired of the endless jockeying to validate religious faith.
Uh, that's why they call it faith you freaking idiot! I and other Christians could tell you about answered prayers and small miracles we've received. Or that since we've been tithing regularly, we seem to have more ourselves. I could tell you about how the symmetry, the perfect mathematics in nature is one reason I see God's hand instead of randomness. However, the difference between conservative nonbelievers and you, on this side of the aisle they respect the 1st Amendment and the sacredness of letting people live according to their deeply held beliefs. Never once have I been ridiculed by a conservative athiest or agnostic.
But why don't you morons ever bother to look beyond your selfish, myopic views? You consider everyone (except Muslims and those who believe in wood elves or whatever) who don't think like you or share your (non) beliefs to be closed minded bigots. Even an athiest should be able to understand that you need to "first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." In other words, don't judge someone else (or their beliefs) without first considering whether yours examination. You're more closed minded than anyone you've judged, else you would be able to understand there are very reasonable compromises.
Hobby Lobby was started by religious, conservative people. They were like this before they were a large business providing employment for 100's of people. Suddenly because you've decided everyone should have to live by YOUR values (or lack of values), they should be forced to pay for what they know is murder. Are you so completely dense you can't understand THE RELIGIOUS VALUES THAT SHAPED THEIR COMPANY HAVE BEEN KNOWN BY EVERYONE FOR AS LONG AS THEY'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS? This is NOT about denying women "health care" (it's actually health INSURANCE but you guys are incapable of understanding the difference). It's about you thinking you have the right to force everyone to do what you want. The way you act is much like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum because he can't have that cookie until after dinner. Should you suddenly develop a brain with enough logic and compassion to see more than one side, here are some options for women who do find themselves pregnant. Seriously, whether you're 15 or 50, you do know that there's a possibility that having sex sometimes results in a mass of tissue growing in your womb.
1. Hobby Lobby will provide birth control options as part of their insurance package. Yes, accidents happen but the majority of the time it's because of human error. Employees could avail themselves of several effective options to prevent pregnancy in the first place.
2. Go to planned parenthood should you not want to burden yourself for 9 months. As the largest provider of abortions in the country they could easily offer free abortions to those women facing extreme prejudice because the choose to work at Hobby Lobby. They're thrilled to help you so you don't suffer the insane cruelty of being "punished because of a mistake".
3. Avail yourself of one of the 0bamacare exchanges. As Nancy Pelosi has said many, many times, one of the advantages of the OFA cluster****: it allows you to pursue your dreams and still have health care. Surely working at Hobby Lobby could be squeezed in there somewhere if it's your dream to work at that particular craft store despite their racist, anti woman views. Besides, your party loves creating victims. It's your bread and butter. Without them, you'd cease to exist. What better way to increase those ranks than by offering a handout that makes it possible for those women to never take responsibility for their actions?
4. Find another job. Since employees and future employees know what Hobby Lobby's beliefs are, this should be obvious. There are plenty of employers who are quite happy to pay for you to suck a baby out of your womb limb by limb and stab it in the head with a fork. Or, worse case scenario, if the "tissue mass" manages to continue breathing after it comes out, it can be thrown in the trash to die without a second thought (hopefully before it finds itself in an incinerator). Because we all know providing care for a living human (even by your definition) is less important than second guessing a woman's choice. It has yet to occur to you that the live baby could be whisked from the room before any of you Abortion Barbies are aware of what's going on. It's not like it would matter to you, you wanted to kill it anyway.
5. If you choose to work at Hobby Lobby and do get pregnant you can actually take responsibility for your actions. Unless you ****ed a turkey baster that loaded itself with sperm without your knowing it, you had a partner. There's no reason he can't share the responsibility. The rape victim and mother's health issues you constantly throw out are so absurdly rare, they're not valid arguments. Besides, it's statistically true that women who keep their baby born of rape are happier and find it easier to put the trauma behind them. Most say having a little someone they love with their full heart was and is cathartic. Those who chose abortion, well those with a conscience, not only have to deal with the trauma of rape, but the guilt of having an abortion.
6. You could actually have the same compassion for a living "fetus" as you do for a smelt and realize it's not at fault for existing any more than the smelt is responsible for swimming around in the only source of water those farmers had. I guess that's kinda hard to do since you'd rather make family farms an endangered species instead of a stupid fish found in every western river I've ever been to. Since people who have currently managed to survive outside the womb don't receive the slightest bit of compassion from you, I guess it's too much to expect that you'd care about the least among us (unless they're a rare mosquito or something). Survival of the fittest only matters when you say it does. It's too much to ask that you understand the twisted irony of killing someone because you don't want to subject them to this cold, cruel world while those on death row who helped create the darkness should be treated with compassion and allowed to live out their lives. However, given your insane preference for fish and adult rapists and murderers, I can see why it makes sense to you.
However, should you have a sudden bout of conscience but you don't want to be "punished" for your choice (spreading your legs is a choice), you could take 9 months out of your life and carry the baby to term. Heck, there are wonderful couples who would pay you (above and beyond prenatal costs) who are aching to provide a loving home for your "mistake". Considering how utterly self centered you guys are, I don't recommend you raise the child yourself. Anyone who condones killing that same child shouldn't be a mother. Maybe the guy who shared your bed has more compassion than you and would love to raise the child you both made.
The problem is, it's simply impossible for you to live and let live when it comes to someone's religious beliefs (correction: unless we're talking about Muslims or the chem trail goddess). Instead of understanding there are plenty of choices that don't include violating someone's 1st Amendment rights, you want to force them to bend to YOUR will. Just who the hell are you to make such personal decisions for others? Pro life people aren't ever supposed to infringe on your rights but you think it's just peachy to stomp all over theirs. Some of you actually believe they should sell a business they've built from the ground up simply because they DO believe it's a living human baby and not just some random mass that somehow parasitically attached itself to your womb. Do you seriously not see how completely irrational and absurd that is, given there are other easier and more practical options? They do require women to take responsibility for their actions, which is hard, so there's that. Evidently, being responsible for yourself wasn't part of that whole women's liberation thing.
Let me leave you with a thought that will scare the shit out of you: When Republicans take control of both branches of congress (and everyone knows you guys have ****ed things up so bad it's inevitable), they're quite capable of passing an iron clad law protecting a right so important that the founders made it #1. The individual's right (even if they own a big mean old company) to live according the tenets (or tenants as the WH says) of their faith is fundamental. And if you think the "there's too many people" argument is valid, by all means start with those on death row and yourselves. Live your own beliefs but don't push them on others.
Cindie
