Food Stamps Buy Less; Families Are Hit Hard

[bijou]

And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.

Whoa, madam.

I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.

Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.

But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.

I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.

I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.

This is a European problem too. Food prices here in the UK are going up sharply and also on mainland Europe. I posted this 'elsewhere' but it got no interest: http://s.wsj.net/article/SB121243244206838679.html

ROME -- The United Nations hosts a global summit in Rome today to discuss a food-price crisis that has triggered riots in poor countries and toppled Haiti's government. But the land of saltimbocca alla romana has food troubles of its own.

And they are hitting Ernesta Santirocco in the form of soaring pasta prices, which her $678 pension can't cover, she complains. Leaving one of the German Lidl discount grocery stores packed with cheaper, processed foods, she notes -- not very proudly -- that her shopping bags contain "schifezze," Italian for disgusting things.


 They are also unhealthy. The soaring costs of pasta, bread, fruit and vegetables are making Italy's famed Mediterranean diet harder to afford in a country that prides itself on its healthy cuisine. Italians, in turn, are dining more on cheap processed foods high in fat, sugar and salt. The consumption of those foods may be accelerating a trend toward higher levels of diabetes and heart disease, while starkly clarifying the supersized cost of good health.

Some, noting that obesity rates among low-income families have soared in the U.S. and Europe, fret that fewer people can afford the fruits and vegetables that lead to better health. Such fresh foods are more susceptible to rises in commodity prices, such as energy, which make up a smaller percentage of costs in processed foods.

...

  It is a complex issue and I suspect part of the variations you find in the US (as in taking Europe as a whole) is simply that of what is produced in the local  economy added in to the biofuel caused shortage of grain, in that a sharp increase in demand can't be instantly met causing higher prices for some goods.

[DixieBelle]

I've changed some of my shopping habits. But nothing I wasn't willing to do already. I've just started paying attention to the store sales, going to multiple locations, clipping more coupons, watching the "buy one, get one free" sales, grabbing the loss leaders, stocking up and freezing more, etc..I have seen an inscrease in the food expenses but nothing we can't handle by doing the things above. The positive to this issue is that it's forced me to economize consistently. Something I had not been doing for a while because food prices were at consistent low levels for years. I didn't menu plan extensively, I would just go shopping with a handful of coupons and buy what we wanted. I still do that but now I also pay more attention to the discounts and plan a little further. It's all evening out so far.

[Lord Undies]

And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.

Whoa, madam.

I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.

Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.

But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.

I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.

I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.

Liberals see the glass as completely empty, and they want everyone else to see it empty too.  It isn't a kneejerk reaction.  It's telling lies to promote a socialist agenda.

Normal people see a situation for what it is and are usually able to keep it in prospective.  Are food prices going up?  You bet'chur Wheaties.  Energy prices effect everything.  Is it "out of control"?  No.  Do normal people have to fight the  liberal agenda at every turn?  Yes.  Normal people responding to manufactured liberal hysteria is not kneejerk either.  It is the necessary antedote to their madness. 

 

[Uhhuh35]

I'm all for gardens, organic, non-processed food, etc. too, but the barriers to poor/low-income households eating well are mostly systemic, and I find such advice not only ludicrous but condescending.

Umm, can someone explain that one to me? How is that "systemic"?

[Lacarnut]

A couple months ago I watched this TV reporter do a story on these poor kids that only get one hot meal a day at school. All of the 10 black kids that they showed in the classroom were porkers; not a slim, trim one in the bunch. These kids could miss a bunch of meals and live off their fat.

[Chris_]

I'm all for gardens, organic, non-processed food, etc. too, but the barriers to poor/low-income households eating well are mostly systemic, and I find such advice not only ludicrous but condescending.

Umm, can someone explain that one to me? How is that "systemic"?

Translation: "It tough to grow stuff in asphalt"

doc

[Wineslob]

DUmmies, I'm truly sorry, but I can't swallow this much B.S. in one sitting.
 Here's why. The first year I moved to my present location, for employment reasons, I had to live on approx $30 a MONTH food-wise (my cost of living went up alot). I  learned to shop at the Grocery Outlet, and live on spagetti sauce and cheap bread.
Many times, while waiting in line to check out, there was always a "welfare momma". Usually 300lbs +, with 3-4 kids, yelling, screaming, and generally being obnoxious. They would have an entire cart FILLED with food, usually junk food. Cakes, ice cream, snack foods. You name it, they had it. They would then whip out the food stamps, and usually the bill would be $150+, in 1990 dollars.
Meanwhile I'm working, and trying to figure out how to survive the month. All I could think of was "these pigs live better than I do off my taxes".
It forever made me a Conservative, so that everytime I hear/read this BULLSHIT, I know it for what it is.   

[jtyangel]

A couple months ago I watched this TV reporter do a story on these poor kids that only get one hot meal a day at school. All of the 10 black kids that they showed in the classroom were porkers; not a slim, trim one in the bunch. These kids could miss a bunch of meals and live off their fat.

Well, what they were saying is that they got one REAL meal a day at school. The parents stuffed them otherwise on food stamp bought junk at home or the kids were left to eat what they want. You ALWAYS have to read between the lines in these stories, particularly when you have picture evidence to go on. I've made the argument before that food stamp $$ should actually be REDUCED during the school year if the child is getting free breakfast and lunch too. What does the family need the extra money for if the child is getting fed for free at the school on weekdays?

[jtyangel]

And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.

Whoa, madam.

I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.

Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.

But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.

I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.

I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.

Liberals see the glass as completely empty, and they want everyone else to see it empty too.  It isn't a kneejerk reaction.  It's telling lies to promote a socialist agenda.

Normal people see a situation for what it is and are usually able to keep it in prospective.  Are food prices going up?  You bet'chur Wheaties.  Energy prices effect everything.  Is it "out of control"?  No.  Do normal people have to fight the  liberal agenda at every turn?  Yes.  Normal people responding to manufactured liberal hysteria is not kneejerk either.  It is the necessary antedote to their madness. 

 

I agree Undies and this is the attitude I take, however I also acknowledge we have peeps on our side that like to put their head in the sand. Problems never get worked on if all we are is countering hysterical liberal arguments with the conservative equivalent of pretending there is not some truth in there and offering it. I wish I felt comfortable enough to post my speech I made on healthcare to give an idea what I mean. I'm against a socialized system, of course, but I did not dismiss the problems inherent in the current system to dismiss socialized system. I showed the flaws inherent in that system as well and left it to individuals to decide if they preferred a flawed system with options or a flawed system where they had none under socialized medicine. BTW, it was a successful speech and that came from many of the liberals who supported it.

There is a way to counteract their hysterical nonsense without throwing the issue out entirely. You brought up one way--to put the increases in perspective. I do that by discussing the reasons behind the gas increases...the bubble that exists among the futures and how that works. Most people are open to hearing the reasons so they can understand it and know there is hope and that waiting it out and riding the cycle and conserving where they can is a far better option then coming up with ridiculous nonsensical laws meant to protect politicians from poor policies. Hope this made sense, getting ready to take my decreasing hiney to the gym in a minute so I'm putting on socks and debating all at the same time.  I is talented like that.

[Flame]

DUmmies, I'm truly sorry, but I can't swallow this much B.S. in one sitting.
 Here's why. The first year I moved to my present location, for employment reasons, I had to live on approx $30 a MONTH food-wise (my cost of living went up alot). I  learned to shop at the Grocery Outlet, and live on spagetti sauce and cheap bread.
Many times, while waiting in line to check out, there was always a "welfare momma". Usually 300lbs +, with 3-4 kids, yelling, screaming, and generally being obnoxious. They would have an entire cart FILLED with food, usually junk food. Cakes, ice cream, snack foods. You name it, they had it. They would then whip out the food stamps, and usually the bill would be $150+, in 1990 dollars.
Meanwhile I'm working, and trying to figure out how to survive the month. All I could think of was "these pigs live better than I do off my taxes".
It forever made me a Conservative, so that everytime I hear/read this BULLSHIT, I know it for what it is.   

I've seen that more than I care to remember....working at a convenience store, the same families come in day after day and buy 12 pk of soda, etc, and  (back when fodd stamps were paper bills) would send their kids in one at a time, each with a $1 FS to buy a 10cent candy, then they would take the change from those transactions and buy beer or cigarettes.  The only  time I ever got in trouble working there (by the district people, not my manager) is because I wouldn't give out more than 90 cents in change if I knew it was the same family.

Meantime, I was surviving on write-off burritos and hotdogs from work.

[Atomic Lib Smasher]

A couple months ago I watched this TV reporter do a story on these poor kids that only get one hot meal a day at school. All of the 10 black kids that they showed in the classroom were porkers; not a slim, trim one in the bunch. These kids could miss a bunch of meals and live off their fat.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. A lot of the "poor" people on food stamps, WIC, etc. are pretty damn overweight. Spending it all on Twinkies I suppose?

And yes, Wineslob, people used to do that before they issued out "debit cards" for food stamps. Buy a pack of gum for 25 cents with a 5 dollar food stamp, go in the liquor store next door and buy a couple "fawties". Pathetic.

[franksolich]

You know, when the food stamps program was first devised during the administration of Lyndon Johnson, it was intended to help two groups--the farmers (and hence the program was administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, not by welfare agencies) and the poor, the idea being that food stamps would help the poor buy more of the farmers' goods.

Now it's a case where it helps two groups--the poor, and the food processors (as opposed to the food producers).

Originally, food stamps could be used for only the basic elementary essentials--milk, butter, eggs, bread, flour, sugar, coffee, tea, cheese, salt, pepper, beef, chicken, pork, fish, somesuch.

Nowadays people can buy candy and soda with food stamps.

I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.

And it is becoming evident that people who prepare their own meals from scratch are healthier, less fat, than people who buy already-made stuff.

[Flame]

I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.

I said as much to a food stamp recipeint once, and they got all indignant and said who was I to tell them what they can buy to eat?   I figured, hell, since I'm paying for it, I can limit what you buy, same as I do with my kids!

[Chris_]

I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.

I said as much to a food stamp recipeint once, and they got all indignant and said who was I to tell them what they can buy to eat?   I figured, hell, since I'm paying for it, I can limit what you buy, same as I do with my kids!

Exactly -- use my money, follow my rules.

[jtyangel]

I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.

I said as much to a food stamp recipeint once, and they got all indignant and said who was I to tell them what they can buy to eat?   I figured, hell, since I'm paying for it, I can limit what you buy, same as I do with my kids!

I agree with you, Flame. The person taking this has put themselves in the position of a child getting doled out an allowance. I've never seen the problem with having restrictions on these things as part of the agreement for someone getting 'free money'. Well, they had restrictions but every few years they seem to loosen them up more. As a clerk in a little drug mart when I was a teen in the 80's, I seem to recall these things could not be used for pop or candy, but now they can be used for either in addition to prepared food at the grocery store(which was also disallowed once).

I also have an issue with someone using it to supplement their organic food bill. I had a couple come in once who used it for all organic food which made me think they could afford food that was not organic all on their own most likely so we were basically subsidizing their organic food selections and allowing them to live a lifestyle that most average families in this country could not afford on a regular basis. I'm assuming this was the usual shack up situation with the mother not reporting the live in boyfriends income which would have disqualified her from receiving food stamps. Seen that one happen a lot too and I believe it is fraud if the gov. cared to follow through on enforcement of the rules they have set.

[DixieBelle]

^exactly. The govt is complicit in their fraud IMO. There is little accountability. And let's be honest, they simply don't have the manpower to check up on every single person and every single purchase. The system is rigged so that only certain items can be purchased and only at certain times when the person's account has funds in it. But there are loopholes. I believe that a person can use cash out options or get change from purchases at the point of sale to circumvent the rules and put a little money in their pockets which can later be used for non-essentials. I think I remember reading an article (the author worked in food retail) and she said that food stamp/welfare recipients would buy the smallest item and get up to $25 back and they would do it over and over.

Or, they have a baby-daddy tagging along/living in the home. *Eyeroll*

[Rebel]

So, before the liberals started this bullshit, Kids went hungry? What'd they all do, starve?

NO! Their f'n families provided for them by either working to make their food purchases, or growing their own food. Libs have taken this responsibility out of their hands and turned people like this into a bunch of ****ing leeches. This has especially hit the black family unit hard. Libs have enslaved them once again. This time, it's considered to be for the sake of morality. Give me a ****ing break.

[DumbAss Tanker]

You know, when the food stamps program was first devised during the administration of Lyndon Johnson, it was intended to help two groups--the farmers (and hence the program was administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, not by welfare agencies) and the poor, the idea being that food stamps would help the poor buy more of the farmers' goods.

Now it's a case where it helps two groups--the poor, and the food processors (as opposed to the food producers).

Originally, food stamps could be used for only the basic elementary essentials--milk, butter, eggs, bread, flour, sugar, coffee, tea, cheese, salt, pepper, beef, chicken, pork, fish, somesuch.

Nowadays people can buy candy and soda with food stamps.

I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.

And it is becoming evident that people who prepare their own meals from scratch are healthier, less fat, than people who buy already-made stuff.

Even back then, a Hell of a lot of the food stamps were just discounted in the 'hood at $.50 to the dollar.  Before the food stamps, there were the "government cheese" days, but that went away for one good reason (inherent inefficiency of distributing large quantities of diverse things 'in kind' throughout the country) and one bad one (undignified to line up for the handouts).