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Author Topic: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."  (Read 2885 times)

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Offline bijou

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"Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« on: June 17, 2008, 03:30:30 PM »
Quote
AspieGrrl  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-17-08 07:20 AM
Original message
"Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 07:25 AM by AspieGrrl
I found this blog post at http://www.angrybrownbutch.com


That’s right, folks: no camp here. No gender non-conformity, either. And definitely no guys in gowns.

Why? Because the marriage equality movement is largely predicated on the notion that us queers are just like “everyone else,” meaning mostly white, mostly middle-class or up, gender conforming monogamists. You know, the non-threatening queers. The rest of us should apparently find a nice closet to go hide in for a while, lest we threaten the rights that are apparently meant for the more upstanding, respectable members of the LGsomeotherlessimportantletters community.



...


Because that’s the way to push for equality - by privileging individuals and couples and relationships that are the most tame, the most palatable, the most marketable while shunning those who stray a bit too much from Middle America’s ideas of propriety. Has it ever occurred to these so-called movement leaders to say, “You know what? It doesn’t matter what the people are wearing, or how they define their gender, or whether they’re picket fence aspirants or not. We all deserve the same rights by virtue of being human beings.” Nah, because that would be too hard. Not only would all the nice, normal gays and lesbians need to wait around until the government and the rest of American society decided that the freaks were human, too, but those same nice, normal gays and lesbians might have to confront their own prejudice and acknowledge their own privilege. Gasp!

Of course, this is all par for the course when dealing with marriage equality, which has never been and can never be about true equality and justice for all people who fall within the LGBT spectrum. That’s because legal marriage is about sanctioning and rewarding certain kinds of relationships while disqualifying and demeaning others. And while I don’t begrudge Lyon and Martin or any of the other couples who have found relief and joy in finally being able to marry legally, I do begrudge a movement that has devoted so much time and attention and resources to a cause that does not serve the most crucial needs of the vast majority of queers and that further marginalizes the most marginalized and vulnerable members of the LGBT community, if you can call it a community.



http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/06/16/why-this-quee... /

You know, flame me all you want, but I do kind of agree with this article.

I think marriage is a hugely important right, but there are other issues in the queer/trans community - for example, about a third of street kids are queer or trans, despite only being 5-10% of the population. And a lot of the push for gay marriage has, as the article says, been focused on throwing the less-conforming members of the community under the bus. It drives me crazy to know it's people like me and the person I'm currently dating that people are referring to when they talk about the "freaky" gays. And it also privileges a nuclear family model - for example, people should be able to choose who sees them if they're in the hospital, whether that person is married to them or not.

So, I think marriage is important, but we should give time to other issues as well, and try not to marginalize queer/trans people who are less conforming.
 

First off the blocks with  the non conforming issue:

Quote
Chovexani  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-17-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have mixed feelings on this.
 Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 08:05 AM by Chovexani
I am elated for the couples who are finally enjoying some measure of equality with regards to their relationships. I expect to attend many weddings or at the very least spend a small fortune on gifts.

As one of those "freaks", though, it's definitely tempered by a bit of bitterness, because it's a privilege (yes, a privilege) I'll never enjoy, and one that even some of these smiling happy people would never want me to have. I firmly believe that I will never live to see any kind of legal recognition or protections for my relationship, despite the fact that its members are consenting adults who love each other very much. All because there is one more person in the picture than society and some people's religions think there should be.

I've had to bite my tongue knowing I'm fighting for equality for others but not for myself. I've sat by and listened to the slippery slope arguments reich wingers have trotted out against gay marriage. I've sat and listened to marriage equality advocates answer those arguments with cries of "of course THOSE people wouldn't be able to get married if we do! That's ridiculous, everyone knows they shouldn't. It'd be a legal headache and gawd we're not freaks like them anyway!" I listen to people, gay, straight and everything inbetween, lump all multi-partner relationships in with whatever skanky swingers they knew in the '70s, fundie nutcases in prairie garb. Or those geeks they knew in college who read too much Heinlein and just wanted an excuse to sleep with a lot of women. Or the one dysfunctional non-monogamous relationship they knew.

So, I will eventually get married in the eyes of my religion and faith community, and that's about it. Because I'm not choosing between my girlfriend and our boyfriend. They are both equally important to me, I cherish both of them with every fiber of my being and I love both of them beyond description. Choosing isn't an option, it's actually rather insulting (would you give up one of your children?). Except what happens when one of my girlfriend's many illnesses beats up on her, and she has no insurance, and our boyfriend can visit her but I can't, and neither of us can put her on our health plans?

I'm not saying the entire institution should conform to my little ideal family. Not even all (dare I say most) polys want marriage rights. I'm just saying it should be just a little bit easier to live a life with the people I love, is all. I agree with you on the nuclear family thing--gods, even most avowed monogamists aren't living in them anymore, why are all our laws based on something that basically doesn't exist anymore?

It's 5 am and I'm rambling. But I get where this article comes from. I hope no one feels like I'm pissing on their pride parade. I'm really not trying to. It just kind of feels like Moses watching the Israelites cross into the Promised Land without him, sometimes.
 
Quote
readmoreoften  (1000+ posts)       Tue Jun-17-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. hospital rights for polys will be worked on, but it can't be without same-sex first.
 If you're in a poly relationship, one line of that triangle is a homo-line. Personally I think people should be able to have a list available to them and hospitals should have no say whatsoever. Of course, possession of the list and cost of legalizing the list then become issues. 
After this the whole thread begins to sound like a Queer Studies college seminar.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x77748#77750
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Offline CactusCarlos

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2008, 03:59:48 PM »
Quote
Because I'm not choosing between my girlfriend and our boyfriend. They are both equally important to me, I cherish both of them with every fiber of my being and I love both of them beyond description. Choosing isn't an option, it's actually rather insulting (would you give up one of your children?). Except what happens when one of my girlfriend's many illnesses beats up on her, and she has no insurance, and our boyfriend can visit her but I can't, and neither of us can put her on our health plans?

Don't laugh.  Everyone reading my post will see this issue posed to the states in their lifetime.  By them, gay marriage will be commonplace and there will be no argument against one-woman-one-man marriage.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 04:06:49 PM »
Why can't you faggots just STFU and go back in the damn closet?
 

I'm seriously sick of this crap. WE THE PEOPLE of California said NO! WTF cant you people understand?
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 04:18:21 PM »
Quote from: Wineslob on June 17, 2008, 04:06:49 PM
WTF cant you people understand?

Simple:The word "NO".
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Offline Chris_

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2008, 04:18:53 PM »
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After this the whole thread begins to sound like a Queer Studies college seminar.


Also known as a criminal waste of taxpayers' money.
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Offline dandi

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 04:52:02 PM »
Yet they claimed there'd be no slippery slope after homosexual marriage, and wrote it off as hysteria among the "homophobes". :whatever:

Bullshit.

Every pervert in the world is now going to get in line to demand their own particular freak-marriage. Now you've got the poly marriage lobby piping up. How long before the incest crowd wants their marriage licenses? Or Little Bo Peep wants to marry her sheep?

Hell in a handbasket.

Thanks liberals, for another great contribution to our social fabric.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2008, 05:00:20 PM »
What is this crap about hospital visits?  Every time I read a post about fake queer marriages I read about "hospital rights".  It's like they are talking about federal law.  Only spouses can visit!  It's the LAW!

I've been visiting people in the hospital my entire life.  I have never been turned away.  All I had to do was follow the hospital rules. 

As for medical decisions when the infirmed cannot speak for himself, I can appoint my mailman my medical power of attorney if I want to and no one can do a thing about it.  It is such a stupid issue to be arguing why queers need to get "married". 
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Offline Tantal

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2008, 07:03:13 PM »
I saw two dudes making out after their California nuptials today. Call me intolerant, but it made my skin crawl.
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Offline VivisMom

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 05:50:09 AM »
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Because I'm not choosing between my girlfriend and our boyfriend. They are both equally important to me, I cherish both of them with every fiber of my being and I love both of them beyond description. Choosing isn't an option, it's actually rather insulting (would you give up one of your children?). Except what happens when one of my girlfriend's many illnesses beats up on her, and she has no insurance, and our boyfriend can visit her but I can't, and neither of us can put her on our health plans?

So...let me see if this is correct. He wants to bring back polygamy?? What's next? Furries demand inter-species breeding?  :whatever:
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Offline Chris_

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 07:09:13 AM »
Quote from: VivisMom on June 18, 2008, 05:50:09 AM
Quote
Because I'm not choosing between my girlfriend and our boyfriend. They are both equally important to me, I cherish both of them with every fiber of my being and I love both of them beyond description. Choosing isn't an option, it's actually rather insulting (would you give up one of your children?). Except what happens when one of my girlfriend's many illnesses beats up on her, and she has no insurance, and our boyfriend can visit her but I can't, and neither of us can put her on our health plans?

So...let me see if this is correct. He wants to bring back polygamy?? What's next? Furries demand inter-species breeding?  :whatever:

I knew this was coming.  Now that marriage is nothing more than a mere property- contract, it makes no sense to not allow it between any number of consenting adults of any sex, whether they are already related by blood or not.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2008, 10:14:15 AM »
Quote from: dandi on June 17, 2008, 04:52:02 PM
Yet they claimed there'd be no slippery slope after homosexual marriage, and wrote it off as hysteria among the "homophobes". :whatever:

Bullshit.

Every pervert in the world is now going to get in line to demand their own particular freak-marriage. Now you've got the poly marriage lobby piping up. How long before the incest crowd wants their marriage licenses? Or Little Bo Peep wants to marry her sheep?

Hell in a handbasket.

Thanks liberals, for another great contribution to our social fabric.

This is exactly the reason why over 60% of us voters said no to this garbage. Even the queers knew what a mess this would create.
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Offline Atomic Lib Smasher

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Re: "Gay Marriage: Why This Queer Isn't Celebrating."
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 10:34:13 AM »
The people said no, but Gavin "Marry Any Twosome" Newsome and the California SC said Yes.... it's almost like a ****in' dictatorship there.

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