Dayum! A.J. Foyt and Recursion are begging for a TS at this rate.

[dandi]

Making waaaaay too much sense for DU. Only their five-figure post counts are saving them:

Dawgs (10,809 posts)

Here's my problem. Can someone explain why Martin would attack Z if Z was doing nothing wrong?
That always seem to be the argument when people defend Zimmerman - that Martin jumped out from the bushes and started pummeling Zimmerman. And they never give a reason, just that Martin started the confrontation and was the aggressor.

But why? IMO, it doesn't make any sense.

Martin was on his way back to his Dad's house, after buying snacks at the local store, to watch the second half of a basketball game. Certainly doesn't sound like the type of thing you would be doing before jumping a person and smashing their head into the concrete.

Doesn't it make sense that he would need a very good reason for fighting. And considering the man he attacked had profiled him as someone that always 'gets away with it', doesn't it make sense that he probably did have a good reason?

In this case, it seems like the logic is pretty clear.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023129516

Recursion (27,014 posts)
4. Maybe similar reasons to why Zimmerman may have?

Martin: "I'm tired of all these old white guys acting like I don't have a right to be here; I'll show him"

My own guess is both were trying to intimidate the other.

Dawgs (10,809 posts)
8. Guilty with no proof then?

Recursion (27,014 posts)
11. If hordes of DUers were claiming they "knew" that, I would argue with them, too

I don't see what's so difficult about this.

Just Saying (649 posts)
9. Except there's no evidence whatsoever

That Trayvon felt that way but we have Z on tape voicing his attitude.

In fact, there's testimony that Trayvon was just trying to get away from Z and was talking to a friend up until the confrontation.

hfojvt (31,554 posts)
23. except why was he unable to get away?

Zimmerman was on the phone and said "shit he's running" and then continued to talk with dispatch for a minute - a full minute before they hung up. A minute where Zimmerman said "I don't know where he is".

So Trayvon was trying to get away and could not manage it with a one minute head start of a guy who doesn't even know which direction he has gone?

That makes no sense, considering how close Trayvon was to his home. If he wanted to get away, he should have been able to. Unless Zimmerman is bionic or a vampire who can move like greased lightning.

Trayvon had the option of "flight or fight" and he did not choose flight.

I think he chose fight.

Why? Because, like I said, it is pretty clear he did not choose flight. He was not scared enough to just run home. Why not? Who knows? I would again speculate that he was not scared because he sized up Zimmerman and decided to himself "I can kick this guy's a$$". And with that, he decided to confront him because he was annoyed at being followed. He had told that girl he was being followed. Maybe he wanted to have a good story for her the next day. A story that would show how tough and brave he is. "That guy who was following me? I pounded his a$$." Some girls are impressed by stuff like that, or some guys think girls are impressed by that.

Dawgs (10,809 posts)
28. Still not a reason to be gunned down. n/t

hfojvt (31,554 posts)
54. I would say that a person has a right to defend himself from an assault

even with lethal force

but they don't have the same right to defend themself from a following.

Bjorn Against (8,368 posts)
31. Nice story, there may be no evidence to back it up but I am sure racist murder supporters love it

hfojvt (31,554 posts)
45. is there evidence to back up the racism?

you asked for a reason. Is that not a reason that fits the facts?

1. Trayvon could have run home but didn't
2. Zimmerman did sustain some injuries

If, however, you are just gonna start with an a priori assumption

1. a black person is dead, therefore whoever killed that person is a racist

then clearly no reason is gonna seem plausible.

And I guess that all those black people who kill other black people are racists too. And if Zimmerman was black, and he was on his back getting hit, and yelling for help, he still would be a racist murderer if he shot the guy who was hitting him.

Seems to me that the story of "racist a$$hole guns down a child for no reason" is also one based on very flimsy evidence, but it is believed so fervently that its adherents want to attack any heretic who doubts it.

That's it! Now work the body! Work the body!

Bjorn Against (8,368 posts)
60. Our country has a long ugly history of racism

I have never heard of anyone defending an armed black man who murdered an unarmed white child. Considering all the racist comments made by Zimmerman supporters I feel quite justified in believing that those who justify the murder of black kids are racist scum.

Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #60)
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 04:20 PM
hfojvt (31,554 posts)
67. Here you go then

Last edited Sun Jun 30, 2013, 05:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3120582

Read the excuses made for the black kid who killed the white kid

1. it was only gang related violence so it doesn't count
2. he didn't mean to kill him, he only meant to beat him up
3. the killer was just a kid himself

Uh, there are not a huge number of cases like this.

and yes, hate. By all means "do it in the name of heaven, justify it in the end"

remember all the outrage this case created at DU?

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2012/mar/28/seneca-police-referring-assault-case-to-federal/

Neither do I. Or this one?

http://www.today.com/id/43561261/ns/today-today_news/t/teen-victim-mob-beating-i-dont-know-about-forgiveness/

Sure nobody defended the perps, but it seems like nobody also paid too much attention to the victim. What do you think would happen if the races of victim and perpetrators were reversed?

edit: dang, if only I could type - or see.

Just Saying (649 posts)
41. Evidence proves most of your story wrong.

Zimmerman himself said Trayvon was running. The friend who was on the phone with Trayvon said he knew he was being followed and tried to get away. She also said he told her he stopped because he was close to home and had lost the guy.

hfojvt (31,554 posts)
52. the friend on the phone is not really evidence

not in the same way that the tape is evidence.

She said vs. the tape said.

Tapes don't misremember things. Tapes cannot make things up.

But take her at her word. Trayvon "lost the guy" and then what? Just started sauntering home very nonchalant. Didn't keep looking behind to see if the guy was back on his tail? That does not sound very frightened. If you are frightened you take more care for your safety. Put even more distance between yourself and your pursuer. Do not relax until you are safely home.

But Trayvon is confident, just now walking along, chatting on the phone and Zimmerman sneaks up on him. Finds him, and closes the 100 yard gap somehow without making a sound. Walks really fast? Or runs? If he walks, how does he close that gap? If he runs, how does he do so without making the sound of feet slapping the pavement (he runs in the grass, he's clever, that one) and/or heavy breathing? Trayvon, who is supposedly afraid, just walks along chatting on the phone and does not hear Zimmerman catching up to him, and never thinks to look over his shoulder.

That story seems like a stretch to me. And even if Zimmerman does find and catch up to Trayvon somehow, Trayvon could just as easily be annoyed as scared. Like what the fudge is this guy's problem? I am gonna pound his a$$. And at that point chooses to hit him rather than try to outrun him.

I would like some facts though. At least a couple facts that never seem to be told. Simple distances which should be easy to measure.
1. distance between Zimmerman's car and Trayvon's house
2. distance between Zimmerman's car and where Trayvon died
3. distance between where Trayvon died and his house.

As Somerby often says though "facts play almost no part in our discourse" Our discourse is about narrative.

The A.J. Foyt DUmmy just destroyed 17 months worth of moonbat bullshit in one thread. 

He'll be ignored for the most part, though. The myth has already been established.
 
 



 
 
 




 

 

[jukin]

racist murder supporters

How long before we see that spewed by some lesbian looking person on MSNBC?

Or has it already happened?

[dandi]

The hits just keep coming:

hfojvt (31,555 posts)
72. there sure is a ton of time for this one

Again, I will ask, and hopefully type it right this time.

How much attention would those two crimes have gotten if the races had been reversed. If a gang of white kids beat the crap out of a black kid - in two separate incidents, I think there would be lots of attention paid to it. They would be waved around to show how racist this damned country is.

The death of Trayvon Martin is a big deal because we have a racist that we can lynch. The deaths of Ranisha Jones and Jalisa Reid, young black girls who were killed and who were not beating anybody up when they were shot, is a non-event. Nobody mourns them. Nobody demands justice for them. Nobody even knows their names. Even Al Sharpton does not care.

Yeah, the whole point of the Trayvon story isn't about justice, it is about a chance for some people to stir up HATE towards "racist scum".

"Wabasha, Wacouta, myself and others still talked for peace, but nobody would listen to us, and soon the cry was "Kill the whites and kill all these cut-hairs who will not join us." "

Anybody not spreading or applauding the hate, needs to be hated too.

The A.J. Foyt DUmmy is on fire!   

[98ZJUSMC]

The A.J. Foyt DUmmy is on fire!   

Yeah, but he's still an idiot:

They would be waved around to show how racist this damned country is.

As we've said before, anyone who has actually globe-trotted a bit can confirm that the US is perhaps the least racist country on this planet.   That includes you sheep up in Canada and Australia.  All the hype is manufactured by the DNC RaceMachine®.

[Delmar]

Response to Dawgs (Original post)Sun Jun 30, 2013, 11:30 AM
 graham4anything (11,047 posts)
34. Wake up. Get gun. Load gun. Go hunting. See prey. Shoot to kill. End of story. 1st degree murder

wish it were a 1st degree murder case, because it was premeditated 1st degree murder.

and the defense knows it too. You can tell.

imho

Response to graham4anything (Reply #34)Sun Jun 30, 2013, 11:56 AM
B2G (1,691 posts)
37. Which is why he called the police, gave them his exact location,

his name and stayed on the line answering questions before he tracked him down and killed him in cold blood.

Put down the crack pipe graham.

This is a magical thread.

[Ptarmigan]

How often does a long time DU member(s) get banned?

[miskie]

How often does a long time DU member(s) get banned?

Its rare - but its coming for hfojvt if he keeps that crap up.

The creepy ass cracka killed sweet baby Tray. That's Obama's 'truth', so its the primitive's 'truth' as well.

[Rebel]

Holy ****!!!! That was good!

[jukin]

Unleash the bouncies!!!

bravenak (409 posts)
115. That happened to me before.

I made fun of his guy who wanted me to hook home up with my best friend but he was unfortunate looking. So I said no but he got to pressuring me and made fun of my ponytail ( it was fake, I was trying a new look) so I told him, something dumb about " I can fix my hair but you can't fix our face".
I was like boom! He slapped me and pulled me ponytail off. So I beat him up.
I was19 he was 22. He went and got his mama and later on when I was coming back from work a big crowd jumped me and my best friend.
I got a scratched cornea, knocked his baby mama out and had to beat up some kids to get away.
When I called the police and went to the station, they refused to arrest anyone because the perpetrators were more injured than me.
There is no justice.

IOW, 95 pound DUche beats up crowd headed up yo momma. I give this tale 2.5 bongs just because of the momma.

[hillneck]

Everyone knows there is no room for common sense on Skin's Island.

[AllosaursRus]

You know how long you'd last if it were raining and you were ducking under the eves of a gated community around here to get outa the rain? Who the **** does that? Find a tree, wait it out. Ya don't trespass on someone's property up against their house and not get challenged! I guarandamnteeya! Not unless ya like buck shot underwear!