primitives discuss price-controls on medical care

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022753431

Oh my.

TimberValley (292 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:55 PM

What would be wrong with putting fixed price limits on healthcare?

Such as a hypothetical limit: "No hospital can charge more than $5,000 for an appendectomy, $500 for an MRI, etc.?"
 
If some hospital is really going to claim, "We can't possibly do an appendectomy for less than $8,000" or something like that, then the way that hospital operates (in terms of costs or expenses) really needs to be examined, doesn't it?

cynatnite (27,078 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:58 PM

1. Because of the enormous expense that goes along with these procedures...

Physicians, techs, paperwork, power, surgical tools, nurses, their own insurance and licenses, etc. There is a lot that needs to be figured into the costs. It's very complex.

TimberValley (292 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:02 PM

3. Then all of those costs ought to be kept in check as well.

I still think it's unreasonable - even with all of those salaries, technology, medication, other overhead costs you mentioned - for a surgical procedure to cost thousands and thousands of dollars.
 
We should aim to be such an advanced enough society that excellent health care can be provided for just a few thousands or even few hundreds of dollars, even without insurance.

cynatnite (27,078 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:04 PM

4. I'm not disagreeing with you...

I just think it's too complex to attempt to reign them in individually. I do think the best way to begin to get a handle on the costs is a Medicare for all type of system. Giving everyone equal access to health care will help to begin to lower costs across the board, IMO.

zaireeka (27 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:01 PM

2. What is the product?

Health care is ever changing and evolving, with R&D costs scaled in through the (theoretical) life of the product/service. Tomorrow there will (possibly) be a new procedure for appendectomies that may eliminate the need for general anesthetic, thereby greatly reducing the need for (mandatory) malpractice insurance for anesthesiology (just an example).
 
A fixed cost would necessarily demand a fixed product.

PoliticAverse (5,519 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:05 PM

5. That's essentially what many countries around the world do...

By having a single payer system that provides for fixed payouts for certain procedures.
 
If the fixed price is below the 'market clearing price', shortages (or extremely long waiting times) occur.

TimberValley (292 posts)   Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:10 PM

7. Then we need to put a stop to the shortages too.

[jukin]

Because some do not have the services that they cannot pay for the DUmbasses would have all of us not have those services.

You know because it would level the field and be fair.

Have yet to see anything wrong in this great man's succinct description of what socialism/fascism/progresivvism/Liberalism.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Winston Churchill

[Chris_]

TimberValley (292 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:55 PM

What would be wrong with putting fixed price limits on healthcare?

Such as a hypothetical limit: "No hospital can charge more than $5,000 for an appendectomy, $500 for an MRI, etc.?"
 
If some hospital is really going to claim, "We can't possibly do an appendectomy for less than $8,000" or something like that, then the way that hospital operates (in terms of costs or expenses) really needs to be examined, doesn't it?

Why can't the government live under the same rules?  Who needs four trillion dollars a year?

[thundley4]

TimberValley (292 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:02 PM

3. Then all of those costs ought to be kept in check as well.

I still think it's unreasonable - even with all of those salaries, technology, medication, other overhead costs you mentioned - for a surgical procedure to cost thousands and thousands of dollars.

We can start with pay cuts for all the union members involved and work from there.

[Undies]

I was asked a while back, "Why should there be any profit in healthcare?"

My pat answer: "So 'health care' will be innovative, plentiful, and available."

Why are otherwise intelligent people struck so stupid by the subject of this nation's medical industry?  That is my question.

[JohnnyReb]

DUmmies should be given a sledge hammer and put to work in a rock quarry at $1 an hour because that's really all gravel is worth.

[I_B_Perky]

TimberValley (292 posts)   Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:10 PM

7. Then we need to put a stop to the shortages too.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Man alive this dummie is freakin stupid!!!!! Just when I think the dummies could not go any lower on the Perky Stupidity Scale (PSS) they freaking get heavy equipment and start digging.

[Celtic Rose]

To do that we would need to eliminate people's ability to sue to malpractice, just as a first step.  If a patient reacts poorly to anesthesia, that would have to be a separate charge.  How severe is the appendicitis, can the surgery be done laparoscopically?  That laparoscopic surgical equipment costs money, so maybe there will be the "discount" 5 inch incision surgery, with the associated longer recovery time and the premium small incision surgery.  Do you want the good, expensive drugs, or the pain meds that only mostly work? 

[Chris_]

To do that we would need to eliminate people's ability to sue to malpractice, just as a first step.  If a patient reacts poorly to anesthesia, that would have to be a separate charge.  How severe is the appendicitis, can the surgery be done laparoscopically?  That laparoscopic surgical equipment costs money, so maybe there will be the "discount" 5 inch incision surgery, with the associated longer recovery time and the premium small incision surgery.  Do you want the good, expensive drugs, or the pain meds that only mostly work? 

ObamaCare is what happens when people who know nothing about the medical industry try to impose rules and regulations on that industry.

[jukin]

ObamaCare is what happens when people who know nothing about the medical industry try to impose rules and regulations on that industry.

FIXORD!!

[marv]

The ultimate price control for medical practice is called RATIONING. Let the irrationals complain about that.

Hint: That's why so many Canadians and other foreigners come to the US for treatment/surgery.

[98ZJUSMC]

TimberValley (292 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:55 PM

What would be wrong with putting fixed price limits on healthcare?

Such as a hypothetical limit: "No hospital can charge more than $5,000 for an appendectomy, $500 for an MRI, etc.?"
 
If some hospital is really going to claim, "We can't possibly do an appendectomy for less than $8,000" or something like that, then the way that hospital operates (in terms of costs or expenses) really needs to be examined, doesn't it?

And finally, a succinct and accurate answer from a (D)Ummy:

Quote
cynatnite (27,078 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:58 PM

1. Because of the enormous expense that goes along with these procedures...

Physicians, techs, paperwork, power, surgical tools, nurses, their own insurance and licenses, etc. There is a lot that needs to be figured into the costs. It's very complex.

Very good.  Everyone carries hugely expensive liability insurance since the progressives thought instant lotto lawfare is so wonderful.

I was asked a while back, "Why should there be any profit in healthcare?"

My pat answer: "So 'health care' will be innovative, plentiful, and available."

Why are otherwise intelligent people struck so stupid by the subject of this nation's medical industry?  That is my question.

Also, where are the overwhelming majority of medical advances originated in the last 60 years.  It ain't Europe.

EDIT:  You did kinda cover that with "innovative".    

TimberValley (292 posts)    Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:02 PM

3. Then all of those costs ought to be kept in check as well.

I still think it's unreasonable - even with all of those salaries, technology, medication, other overhead costs you mentioned - for a surgical procedure to cost thousands and thousands of dollars.

Don't bother to mention six figure John Edwards fees, (D)Ullard.

[JohnnyReb]

Don't bother to mention six figure John Edwards fees, (D)Ullard.

Haven't heard anything out of him lately.....has he been run over by an ambulance or something?

[Firekrakka]

Haven't heard anything out of him lately.....has he been run over by an ambulance or something?

Wonder if he's still feeling pretty?

[youtube=425,350]http://youtu.be/lJpNSJSab04[/youtube]

[JohnnyReb]

Wonder if he's still feeling pretty?

[youtube=425,350]http://youtu.be/lJpNSJSab04[/youtube]

Mother nature will eventually take care of that....just give her time.

[I_B_Perky]

Haven't heard anything out of him lately.....has he been run over by an ambulance or something?

One can only wish!!!!