primitive has problem with cat

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018319954

Oh my.

Samantha (5,676 posts)    Fri Mar 1, 2013, 10:51 PM

I need some advice from people who are cat savvy

I know quite a bit about dogs, had at least one most of my life, bred dogs for awhile, but I have never owned a cat. I am ignorant about cats.
 
A strange thing happened about a week ago. A cat started staying on my front porch stoop. I opened the door, and there she was. She immediately started whining at me. I was very startled -- I couldn't imagine why a cat would choose to come to my place.
 
This cat is small but beautiful. I asked someone that day what does that cat want from me (yes, I am that stupid). The answer was food. Also added in was do not feed the cat or she will never leave.
 
I am not barbaric. I can't know that an animal is hungry and not feed it. I went out and got some canned cat food, hoping it was okay. I brought it home and put the bowl down on the stoop. She came right up and ate it right away, even though I was standing nearby. I had been told by then that this was an "outdoor" cat, not an "indoor" cat.
 
Then I was advised not to give the cat wet cat food - feed her the dry cat food. I bought a big bag of that. I also have been giving her clean water everyday. I asked at the pet store what kind of treats do cats eat, and I was told I could give her the treats I was buying for my dog - sweet potato fries. I was not too sure of that, so I have not done it. Any thoughts on that? Any recommendations?
 
So everyday the cat is there and everyday I feed her. I have a dog that is almost blind. She has lived here for almost twelve years, and she means everything to me. Outside, the cat puts her nose up to the screen door, and inside my dog puts her nose up to it as well. She must sense the animal is there, but I know she cannot see it. It seems like they could tolerate each other.
 
It is really cold outside tonight. My neighbors have told me the cat will be okay, but I am not too sure about that. And guess what, even though she is not yet 1 year old, she is probably pregnant. I noticed she was looking bigger after a few days, and I asked someone from PAWS to give me some advice. That was her observation. She believes the cat is pregnant.
 
I need to ask anyone reading this post is that cat okay outside for tonight. It seems to be pretty cold to me, I think it is about 38, but I can't quit worrying about her. I also need to figure out what to do to get ready for the "big event." I can't understand how a cat can have kittens outside and newborn kittens will not be adversely impacted by the elements. I have found a website which shows different shelters that can be improvised, but they require materials and tools and a little know-how.
 
So tomorrow I am going to start making some changes, but please let me know what you suggest. This is really upsetting me. I want to protect the cat but I am at a loss to figure out what to do. I have put a blanket out there which she is lying on, but that seems pretty lame.
 
I think the problem is I am getting conflicting advice. Additionally, I have been told that an outside cat cannot become an inside cat. Is that true? This cat, although not there yet, allows me now to pet her. She walks between my legs and brushes herself on my pants. The night before last when she knew I was coming inside, she put her paw on my shoe as if to get me to stay. I think she is starting to feel trusting of me and eventually could be very comfortable if I keep working at it, slowly but consistently. Is that true or false? Could she be trained to live inside and use a litter box?
 
Sam

PS I am really starting to love this cat and want to do the right thing by her, but I need some expert advice for that.

Curmudgeoness (9,777 posts)   Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:06 PM

1. That cat is not necessarily an outdoor cat.

It may well be, but I have had several cats that were indoor cats....but they were found outdoors. This cat may have been an indoor cat at one time, and since it is not afraid of you, this cat has been a pet at some time. You can definitely have in be an indoor cat if that is something you want.
 
You have so many questions, I am not sure what all to say. Feed cats food for cats. If she is not very pregnant, she could be fixed and aborted.....but not if she is too far along because it would not be safe for her, but you could talk to a vet about it.
 
She probably has fleas, so you would want to make sure she is isolated if you do bring her in until you can get her to a vet. It sounds as if your dog would be tolerant, and so would the cat.
 
If you are worried about her being outside when it is so cold, do you have a cardboard box? We put cardboard boxes stuffed with blankets/towels and with blankets over them so the wild cats have a place to curl up. We have gotten more creative in my neighborhood, but this was what we did at first. The cats did use them, so they were better than nothing.

^^^the primitive with the sensitive bottom.

Samantha (5,676 posts)   Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:11 PM

2. I have been asking myself that question - how does one know?

But I asked someone else tonight who has a ton of cats, and he said it was an outdoor cat. If no one knows the cat's history, how can one tell. And also the cat seems like she wants to come thru the door into the living room.
 
Thank you for responding. I am going to go look for a box. If you think of anything else, please post it and I will come back to check. Thanks for caring about the cat. I am going to name her Nikita, but I am not sure how that name is spelled.
 
Sam

Honeycombe8 (16,656 posts)    Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:35 PM   

7. I'll tell you what I know.

I'm no cat expert, but I did find and adopt a stray cat once, who became my beloved Puddin'head. I later adopted a rescue cat. And I late bought a purebred Himalayan.
 
The cat I found outside as a stray was not an "outside" cat as your neighbor is calling it. He means "feral." Feral cats are wild and would never rub up against your leg or put your paw on your foot. People dump or lose their pet cats all the time.
 
When I found and adopted my stray, I coralled him, got him into a carrier somehow & took him to the vet for an exam. Altho he scratched the vet and was kinda wild, the vet told me he'd be a good pet. He wasn't acting "feral."
 
As long as it's above freezing, the cat should be fine, except I'd put something out there for comfort and warmth.
 
What I made for a rabbit in my yard one cold winter:

I found a box, turned it upside down, cut a round "door" on one end.

To make it moisture proof, I fir duct taped some of that pink fluffy thick insulation that has paper on one side, and on top of that, duct taped some sheet silver insulation all around it. I had some of that stuff already. I put something plastic on top - I think it was the bottom of a one of those drains you use by the side of the sink in the kitchen to drain dishes. I also put something plastic in the bottom, for a floor, with a lightweight blankie on top.
 
I put the box-house under a thick bush, for protection from critters and moisture.
 
On top the box-house I draped something so that it would partly cover the door I'd carved out in the box, for protection from wind and from other critters finding their way into it so easily.
 
It looked pretty comfy cozy to me. I saw signs that the rabbit used the house.

If you could put the house under covering on your porch, that'd be great.

I wouldn't put a flea collar on her, since she's pregnant. After she has the kittens, and whenever it's safe for the kittens, you can give them to a shelter - kittens will get adopted fairly quickly, I think. Then you can get her into a carrier and take her to the vet to get an exam and get her fixed.
 
If it were me, and if I decided to keep her, I'd probably get her into a carrier and get her to a vet now, though. And possibly get her an abortion (and fixed at the same time, if possible and safe). But she'd need a safe, secure place to recuperate (a garage?), free from possible encounters with racoons or other critters (or are you in a city?).
 
Cats take to litter boxes naturally, if you decide to bring her in (after she's examined by a vet and free from fleas). She might have a couple of accidents at first because it's a new place and a new system, but should be fine.
 
I have a friend who is involved in rescuing cats and has dealt with ferals quite a bit. I can ask her info, if you want.
 
I am a dog person and have had mainly dogs. But I will say that I absolutely loved Puddin'head, the stray I found. He was my pal and a wonderful, loving, and funny cat. Cats need less attention and tending than dogs. Cats and dogs CAN get along; it depends on the cat and the dog. One of my cats hated my dog, but they just avoided each other, so it was no problem. My other cat liked the dog just fine. I didn't have a dog when I had Puddin'head.
 
Female cats can act a little weirder than male cats. It's the opposite of dogs. With dogs, the males are the independent, more aggressive ones. With cats, it's the females.
 
As for her staying around if you feed her, is that a problem? That wouldn't be a problem for me. I'd probably have her pregnancy aborted, though, if it were safe, just to avoid more unwanted cats in teh world.

Samantha (5,676 posts)    Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:53 PM

11. Wow, thanks for all the information

I don't know how far along she is, but I am going to let her have the kittens and try to get them adopted out. Someone told me today that she probably won't have more than 3 or 4 since it is her first. I hope that is correct.
 
From reading your post, I think the best thing to do would be just take her to the vet, but we are not at the stage yet where I can pick her up. I unfortunately am still a little nervous around her, and I startle her sometimes, so we need more time.
 
Since my dog is nearly blind, I wonder if I brought Nikita in eventually when I had to leave I just don't know if Cheyenne bumped into her accidentally, if Nikita would react badly. I wonder if she can sense my dog is blind and would make allowances, but I am really, really worried about that. Cheyenne has the roam of the house, and she knows her way around because she has lived her all her life. I also don't know if at this stage of the game, if Cheyenne could accept another animal competing for her owner's attention. In short, I am worrying myself to death over these questions. But I can't afford to make a mistake when it comes to either animal's health or well-being.
 
But I will re-read your post tomorrow again and see what I can take from it. I think having a place for her stay on the stoop and an another shelter, like one of the igloo ones I have seen on the net, might be good for in front of the house under the bushes. This might be where she could have her kittens. I know they have to stay with her a few weeks, but I am not sure how many that might be and if they would be save outside. To answer your question, I live in the city, College Park, MD, and there are a lot of houses on this street.
 
Thanks again.

Sam

PS the last three days when I have taken Cheyenne walking, Nikita follows behind. It is extremely funny. She knows the route now, and when I get to the end, she automatically turns around and heads back to the house, assuming we will follow her. And so of course we do!

Honeycombe8 (16,656 posts)    Sat Mar 2, 2013, 12:22 AM

18. You're welcome! That's a good sign that Nikita follows you on your walks.

If you bring her inside, you can close her off in a room, while you're gone. I wouldn't leave them alone together, w/o you there, at first.
 
Nikita may scratch your dog, if he gets too close. When I adopted a cat from rescue, after I had a dog, I left htem alone together. I figured she could stay on top of furniture, to get away from the dog (that was the cat that didn't like dogs). When I got home, I saw my dog had a bloody scratch on his nose! He learned his lesson right away...don't get too close to the cat!
 
I have two dogs. I keep them separated during the day, while I'm away. There is such a thing as too much closeness. They were together 24/7 and were getting irritated with each other. They seem to appreciate having their own space and their own time to be free from others. When I get home, it's a big welcoming for me AND for each other, as they wait for the other to be let out of his/her room. They have all evening and all night (they sleep with me) to be together.
 
When I found Puddin'head as a stray, he didn't come inside right away. And I wasn't sure I wanted him to. I started feeding him outside my door. He'd wait for me to leave, then cautiously approach to eat. He started coming to the food bowl, when I was still there. He finally let me touch his head briefly. I brought the food bowl closer and closer to the door. Then I finally left the door open one evening and put the food bowl inside the door. He came inside to eat, and left. Another time I left the door open when he was outside. He came in and walked around a bit and checked things out. Then he came up to me and purred and let me pet him. And pick him up. Then he urinated on my door (spraying, they call it, when a male does it). He was marking his territory.
 
So it was gradual. But it didn't take many days, all told. You do need a carrier to take him to the vet. But if she's never been in a carrier, that will REALLY scare her, to be confined in that small space. It was a job for me to get Puddin' to the vet. But it had to be done. In fact, I'm not sure if I succeeded, even. Or if I risked taking him in teh car w/o a carrier (dangerous). I just don't remember. But he ran all over the vet's office in a panic. Still, the vet said he was just scared and he could tell Puddin' wasn't wild or mean, just scared.

Samantha (5,676 posts)    Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:29 AM

48. This is another great post and you actually addressed what I have been worrying about

You walked me through step by step the process you used to slowly move the cat inside. I have to take steps slowly in order to avoid making a mistake. A mistake is defined as having Cheyenne harmed. On this morning's walk, Nikita came closer to Cheyenne, and she actually allowed me to pet her when I was holding Cheyenne in my arms.
 
I think today I need to give some thought to the shelter on the stoop and keeping her warm, but I am also going to price kitty litter boxes and actual litter types. In case of an emergency (such as great big storm), I am going to try to bring her in and put her in the small bedroom. I might use that method you used with the food to get her in. But I know absolutely nothing about litter boxes and didn't know pets "bury" the poop until I read it here. How often does the litter get emptied, where does one empty it, and then how does one clean it before refilling it?
 
Over the long-haul I am going to try to enclose the porch and provide some heat and air conditioning out there for when I have to be away for the day. That would be her other room. But I will put a cat door there so she can get out. Another friend has advised me not to do this, either make the cat an indoor cat or an outdoor cat. He said he could not stand the thoughts of his cat roaming outside and getting hit by a car.
 
But it did occur to me today on the walk that Nikita heard me give Cheyenne commands, and I think she is picking up on that process. She went out into the road and I authoritatively said "Nikita, no road" (she had heard me say no road to Cheyenne) and she came back upon the grass.
 
This morning again I am looking at that ear and still trying to decide if it has been tipped. It is hard to tell because the tip of the ear is white, but it does look slanted. So if she has been neutered, she can't be pregnant. The fact she is getting bigger means I am feeding her too much or she has the worms. How many times a day should I feed her and how much? I am currently feeding her twice a day (once a cup and one-half of dry dog food and second a can of dog food (small one)?
 
I am having the PAWS lady took a look at her this weekend (if Nikita will allow her to get close). She thinks as I mentioned above she is pregnant. But she was not close enough to truly see that ear.
 
Thanks for all your help and time.

Sam

Now, this is a big, a really big, campfire; primitives seem to like to talk a lot about cats.

So I'll stop here, as it takes forever to scroll down to the bottom of the page.

But first, this:

grasswire (36,293 posts)    Sat Mar 2, 2013, 01:11 AM

31. if she does have kittens...

....it is important, as someone said above, for you to handle those kittens and teach them the human touch. That will make them more adoptable.

It looks as if the addled grasswire primitive's guardians were out on a date last night, leaving the pie-and-jam primitive at home all alone.....and unwatched.

She knows they don't want her being on the computer.

Samantha (5,676 posts)    Sat Mar 2, 2013, 01:31 AM

32. Now that would be the least of my problems

I love animals and probably would be spending most of my day with them. And then I would start wondering if I could keep them all. And then I would have to start a thread on DU asking if it would be a bad idea ... oh well.
 
Sam

grasswire (36,293 posts)    Sat Mar 2, 2013, 01:53 AM

34. oh it's really hard to give kittens away!

Just remember that they will procreate amongst themselves if left to their own devices. And then eventually the Hoarder TV show will be calling on you.....

Samantha (5,676 posts)   Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:37 AM

53. Well if you see me featured on cable on Hoarder you can always yell at the screen, I told you so.

I think I can manage to get the kittens adopted. My daughter has a ton of friends who are single. People like this often have pets. I also have some friends who will help me try to get them adopted out, and they will be the most well behaved, beautifully socialized kittens ever seen. From what my doggie groomer told me yesterday, since she is so young and this is her first time, she probably will not have more than 3 or 4.
 
So grasswire, which one do you want. I can send you pics!!

Sam

grasswire (36,293 posts)    Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:59 AM

59. I would be tempted for a certain kind of orange kitty.

But I've got enough trouble right now with a 23 pound brown tabby, another tabby, and my border collie in a small apartment. Ha!

[BattleHymn]

And guess what, even though she is not yet 1 year old, she is probably pregnant..

Well, that settles it.  The cat is obviously a descendant of the grasswipe primitive. 

[FlippyDoo]

It's a dull Saturday night. Not much good on the TV. I read Samantha's post and the first few sentences seemed like they would be fun to do a sort of Mad-Lib type of thing with them. So here they are. The word 'cat' had been replaced by the word 'brain'.

I need some advice from people who are brain savvy

I know quite a bit about dogs, had at least one most of my life, bred dogs for awhile, but I have never owned a brain. I am ignorant about brains.
 
A strange thing happened about a week ago. A brain started staying on my front porch stoop. I opened the door, and there she was. She immediately started whining at me. I was very startled -- I couldn't imagine why a brain would choose to come to my place.

[franksolich]

It's a dull Saturday night. Not much good on the TV. I read Samantha's post and the first few sentences seemed like they would be fun to do a sort of Mad-Lib type of thing with them. So here they are. The word 'cat' had been replaced by the word 'brain'.

Good one!

[BattleHymn]

As for her staying around if you feed her, is that a problem? That wouldn't be a problem for me. I'd probably have her pregnancy aborted, though, if it were safe, just to avoid more unwanted cats in teh world.

Well, now that's a surprise. 

[Dori]

It's a dull Saturday night. Not much good on the TV. I read Samantha's post and the first few sentences seemed like they would be fun to do a sort of Mad-Lib type of thing with them. So here they are. The word 'cat' had been replaced by the word 'brain'.

I need some advice from people who are brain savvy

I know quite a bit about dogs, had at least one most of my life, bred dogs for awhile, but I have never owned a brain. I am ignorant about brains.
 
A strange thing happened about a week ago. A brain started staying on my front porch stoop. I opened the door, and there she was. She immediately started whining at me. I was very startled -- I couldn't imagine why a brain would choose to come to my place.

 

This brain is small. I asked someone that day what does that brain want from me (yes, I am that stupid).

[I_B_Perky]

Samantha (5,676 posts)    Fri Mar 1, 2013, 10:51 PM

I need some advice from people who are cat savvy

I know quite a bit about dogs, had at least one most of my life, bred dogs for awhile, but I have never owned a cat. I am ignorant about cats.

Asians eat them. Supposedly they taste like chicken.   

True story. About 2 years ago I went to a clients office downtown and they were on the 10th floor. So I get on the elevator and 3 guys get on with me, one  black and the other two were white. All wore suits. I hit 10 and they hit 9. The black guy starts telling the other two about how this Asian family moved in next door to him. His words:

"When they moved in their kids were skinny. Looked liked they hadn't eaten for a while. Now we had all kinds of cats in the neighborhood. 100's of them! Black ones. white ones, gray ones, multicolored ones, all kinds. Had hundreds of them. I'd called the city complaining but they never did anything. They'd get in the trash, under the house, on the porch, on the car, pissed me off. Then these asians moved in next door, and the cats started disappearing. After about three weeks, all the cats were gone. Then I saw the kids and man they looked really well fed!!!!"

Was all I could do to keep from laughing. The other two were cracking up.

Then they got off on the 9th floor, so I didn't get to hear the rest of the story.

[BattleHymn]

Asians eat them. Supposedly they taste like chicken.   

[I_B_Perky]

No it ain't!!!. A black, hispanic, jew told me that.   

[Chris_]

No it ain't!!!. A black, hispanic, jew told me that.   

Sammy Davis Jr.?

[GOBUCKS]

I've never heard of DUmmy Samantha before, but the DUmp sure has a new candidate for DUmbest of the DUmb.

Her brain dead cat thread is an instant DUmp classic.

Samantha is to cats as stevenumbers is to women.

[I_B_Perky]

Sammy Davis Jr.?

Now that made me laugh, Chris!!!!  H5!!!!

[vesta111]

Asians eat them. Supposedly they taste like chicken.   

True story. About 2 years ago I went to a clients office downtown and they were on the 10th floor. So I get on the elevator and 3 guys get on with me, one  black and the other two were white. All wore suits. I hit 10 and they hit 9. The black guy starts telling the other two about how this Asian family moved in next door to him. His words:

"When they moved in their kids were skinny. Looked liked they hadn't eaten for a while. Now we had all kinds of cats in the neighborhood. 100's of them! Black ones. white ones, gray ones, multicolored ones, all kinds. Had hundreds of them. I'd called the city complaining but they never did anything. They'd get in the trash, under the house, on the porch, on the car, pissed me off. Then these asians moved in next door, and the cats started disappearing. After about three weeks, all the cats were gone. Then I saw the kids and man they looked really well fed!!!!"

Was all I could do to keep from laughing. The other two were cracking up.

Then they got off on the 9th floor, so I didn't get to hear the rest of the story.

Unfortunately people will when hungry, except for Hindu's, Muslims and Jews eat what is available.

My story and why one fears what comes out of mouth of a child.

I took my 5 year old grand child food shopping, stopped  on way home from the chain store into a small Asian market.   Only place in the area that stocked raw peanuts at that time. 

I was known to the worker behind the desk.  This male worker could hardly speak English and it was a PITA for me to communicate with him.

As I was checking out my grand daughter came to the desk and opened her mouth.   She asked the checker if he had eaten Fat Head.   This male looked down at this small little girl and asked what she was talking about.   " My daddy said you people ate my cat, Fat Head ".   

Oh Boy, all pretense slipped and in perfect English this male explained that there was no reason to eat cats in this country.  Quite a shock for me, for over a year this man had been playing me as a fool. Every frigging week I had stopped in to his store for supplies as we were on a weight loss kick, it worked, and my coworkers gave me recipes for some ingredient I could not find in the supermarkets.

Never had another problem with him after that, a good man that just had a warped sense of humor.

[I_B_Perky]

Unfortunately people will when hungry, except for Hindu's, Muslims and Jews eat what is available.

My story and why one fears what comes out of mouth of a child.

I took my 5 year old grand child food shopping, stopped  on way home from the chain store into a small Asian market.   Only place in the area that stocked raw peanuts at that time. 

I was known to the worker behind the desk.  This male worker could hardly speak English and it was a PITA for me to communicate with him.

As I was checking out my grand daughter came to the desk and opened her mouth.   She asked the checker if he had eaten Fat Head.   This male looked down at this small little girl and asked what she was talking about.   " My daddy said you people ate my cat, Fat Head ".   

Oh Boy, all pretense slipped and in perfect English this male explained that there was no reason to eat cats in this country.  Quite a shock for me, for over a year this man had been playing me as a fool. Every frigging week I had stopped in to his store for supplies as we were on a weight loss kick, it worked, and my coworkers gave me recipes for some ingredient I could not find in the supermarkets.

Never had another problem with him after that, a good man that just had a warped sense of humor.

 

[Airwolf]

We all know that if a Dummy gets a cat who the smarter of the two really is.