Author Topic: Social Security  (Read 4928 times)

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Social Security
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2012, 12:24:22 PM »
As far as the retirement component of it goes, it's a red herring as our fiscal problems go, changing it is a philosophical or policy issue, not a fiscal imperative.  Withholding rates, start ages, and benefit levels can be adjusted to keep it solvent as long as the electorate favors keeping more than not, so the entire topic is just a beartrap for Conservative speakers when it isn't actually what's going to break us.

What IS a problem are the unearned entitlements like SSDI, WIC/foodstamps, direct or indirect effects of social welfare programs generally including Obamacare, institutionalized corruption like green energy contracts, rebates, and credits for campaign bundlers, and failed 'Stimulus' moves that end up costing the taxpayers a million dollars for each $50K job created in the real economy.

There are several problems with means-testing SS retirement, the biggest one I can see is that since it's a contributory system, you would be taking money away from people many years after they put it into the system under specific legal conditions that were supposed to eventually return it to them, which could make it an unconstitutional ex post facto law, since one party is suddenly changing the rules and seizing property of the other many years after the deal was done.  It would avoid this problem to some extent if you were to cap the benefits at the total of a beneficiary's contributions (employer and employee) plus accumulated interest at the annual rates applicable to general government obligations over the beneficiary's history, but while not insurmountable in an accounting sense, I pity the fool that would have to explain that one.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Social Security
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2012, 12:31:43 PM »
As far as the retirement component of it goes, it's a red herring as our fiscal problems go, changing it is a philosophical or policy issue, not a fiscal imperative.  Withholding rates, start ages, and benefit levels can be adjusted to keep it solvent as long as the electorate favors keeping more than not, so the entire topic is just a beartrap for Conservative speakers when it isn't actually what's going to break us.

What IS a problem are the unearned entitlements like SSDI, WIC/foodstamps, direct or indirect effects of social welfare programs generally including Obamacare, institutionalized corruption like green energy contracts, rebates, and credits for campaign bundlers, and failed 'Stimulus' moves that end up costing the taxpayers a million dollars for each $50K job created in the real economy.

There are several problems with means-testing SS retirement, the biggest one I can see is that since it's a contributory system, you would be taking money away from people many years after they put it into the system under specific legal conditions that were supposed to eventually return it to them, which could make it an unconstitutional ex post facto law, since one party is suddenly changing the rules and seizing property of the other many years after the deal was done.  It would avoid this problem to some extent if you were to cap the benefits at the total of a beneficiary's contributions (employer and employee) plus accumulated interest at the annual rates applicable to general government obligations over the beneficiary's history, but while not insurmountable in an accounting sense, I pity the fool that would have to explain that one.

Aw shut up  :tongue:
It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Social Security
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2012, 01:10:20 PM »
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Zeus

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Re: Social Security
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2012, 01:32:19 PM »
:tumbleweed:

As with most things involving government doesn't matter what is done someones going to feel they got shafted. A lot of times someone does.
It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline Zeus

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Re: Social Security
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 02:21:08 AM »
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PLTfOAYfbao[/youtube]
It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline 5412

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Re: Social Security
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2012, 09:28:36 PM »
Hi,

The real argument is capitalism versus socialism.  The quicker you get the government out of the retirement insurance business the better. 

How about a law that phases out social security as we know it over a period of time.  At the same time, each employer will withhold and match a certain amount of your salary which goes into your personal account like a 401-K.  The government has already proved they cannot manage your money and I don't need to hear the garbage that the public needs to protected from themselves.

In Malaysia, at one time 10% of your salary went into a private fund for your retirement.  If you did not work, then it was your problem. 

Bush wanted to privatize part of social security and expand breaks for 401-K's and the libs fought him tooth an nail because that would make the population less dependent on the government.  That is the crux of the problem and will not be solved until the conservatives totally cause a revolt in the majority of the population.

regards,
5412