LiberalFighter
I disagree with Rachel tonite on the issue of a ticker parade for Iraq Vets
Especially and mostly the part that those that didn't go over there need the parade.
But even on the parade it is imo a waste of time. The vets need to be assimilated back into their old jobs if they want or find good jobs for them. They need to be healed as needed both physically and mentally. Rather than spend all that expense on parades put it into programs to help them. NYC won't be the only place that wants to put on a parade. A parade is for only one day. It needs to be long term and effective instead of just show.
Luminous Animal
12. I won't celebrate useful idiots.
denbot
13. Just to let you know, it was me who alerted on your post.
Idiots for service to our country? Really?
Please note that, despite denbot's alert, > 50% of a randomly selected jury voted that the post remains.
Luminous Animal
16. No."Useful idiots". A political and historical term.
Those that are used by the 1% to sacrifice for the interests of the 1%.
A Grade-A asshole and historical revisionist (read: liar) too!
denbot
17. Bullshit, it was a blanket insult to veterans. You should be ashamed.
Why don't you drop by your nearest V.A. hospital and inform them on the political, and historical meaning of their service. If you lack the guts for that, drop by the Veterans Group and enlighten us. Your just an anonymous keyboard commando, so it should be safe enough for you.
BTW, I am familiar with the original reference.
Luminous Animal
21. Well, no it wasn't and I am not ashamed.
Why don't you drop by your nearest Veterans for Peace office and get a schooling from them.
The next VFP meeting will be held at the PX...where they will be getting the Ranger and SF tabs.
Muskypundit
18. And "useless idiot" is what we veterans call internet posters
Who think themselves better than us.
Acquaint yourself to that historical meaning.
pinboy3niner
14. I feel sorry for you
To generalize to that extent and write off a very large group of people as not worth you interest or understanding or empathy is just sad.
People who, whatever you may think of them, subordinated their self-interest to serve what they saw as a larger cause, hazarding their own life and limb.
You may judge them as mistaken. A lot of them joined up at 18 or 19, when they couldn't be accused of having such experienced and mature views as yours. But they put their lives on the line to serve something other than themselves. You can't take that away from them.
I've been there and done that. Does that make me, too, one of your "useful idiots"?
Luminous Animal
19. I won't celebrate that they put their lives on the line so that
the military industrial corporations can continue to slaughter people all over the world.
I have a mature view and thank me that I raised my daughter with a mature view so that she didn't get sucked into being a useful idiot for the greatest imperial state this world has ever known.
In the 22 years that she has been alive she has had the "privilege" of living in a country that has slaughtered and displaced million of people. Millions.. She live in a country that has destroyed cities, towns, and villages. That has driven millions into refugee camps. That has contributed to starving parentless children.
You know what I celebrate? I celebrate that when she was 11 years old, she was willing to be arrested when protesting the this war.
Elektra loves daddy.
pinboy3niner
27. No. They put their lives on the line for each other.
I served because I listened to JFK. When he said, "Ask not what you country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country," I was young and I took it to heart.
I volunteered for the draft, for infantry, for OCS, for Vietnam, and for combat duty.
I turned 21 on a hill in the A Shau Valley on a night when I was sure I was going to die.
I led an Infantry platon that at one point volunteered unanimously--all 36 guys--for a suicidal mission to rappel into a heavy firefight only because we had a man down with a sucking chest wound and they were willing to risk their lives to try to save him--even though he was an officer.
Those good, good men were the "useful idiots" I was proud to serve with.
Later, I got hit with AK fire and was medevac'd to the States. For 18 months I lived on the hospital floor that had all the facial casualties and the amputees.
I guess you never heard the kinds of stories I heard from those guys. About struggling to survive, and to save others. Not a word about military industrial corporations.
Like one friend of mine who jumped on a grenade to save his squad. They gave that "useful idiot" the Medal of Honor.
Another friend and roommate was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously. I recently got a Christmas card from his parents. To you, a "useful idiot." Would you tell them that? The men he saved by his sacrifice will always remember him.
To generalize and dismiss so many human beings as nothing but "useful idiots" is far more narrow-minded and ignorant than the ignorance you ascribe to them.
Luminous Animal
28. Glad you are alive. Sorry you think risking your life was worth it.
I don't.
What did your friend who jumped on a grenade win? Cheap slave labor for U.S. corporations in Viet Nam?
Yep.
pinboy3niner
34. "Sorry you think risking your life was worth it."
So, out of all that I wrote, all you got was something I didn't say.
You don't have a ****ing clue about how I or any of us reflect on that experience. It happened. We lived it. We still live with it. When you put people in a pigeonhole as "clueless idots" and don't listen to them, you'll never understand.
My friend? He saved a lot of lives. In real life. But because he WENT to war, you dismiss him, and what he did when he got there and forever after means nothing to you. That's snap-judgmental and myopic and utterly clueless.
Drahthaardogs
36. You are over the top.
I may have been a "useful idiot" but you are a repugnant hypocrite. Do you really think that your wonderful 11-year old daughter could have ever had the opportunity for being arrested without men and women like myself? That she could exercise that right speak volumes of the sacrifice of our servicemen and women. That right, was paid for in blood and has been protected in blood. Don't cuss a farmer with a mouthful of food.
Luminous Animal
44. Men and women like yourself did nothing to ensure the that
my daughter would be free to protest imperialist wars. She fought against one. You fought for one.
LA hides behinds little girls.
Drahthaardogs
47. And people like you have nothing to ensure ANYONE's freedom.
You do not even have the sense to not cuss a farmer with a mouthful of food. You are the worst kind of creature, one who takes with zeal yet begrudges those who gave them the opportunity.
alphafemale
32. You let your 11 year old get arrested?
Yeah. That's splendid parenting. Remarkable actually.
Luminous Animal
45. It was her choice to protest. It was my job to facilitate her safety.
Which, both her father and I did. Eleven year olds are not stupid and many have strong social justice impulses. I could have exercised authoritarian control and squelched her. Or I could let her express herself under the wing of safety from both her parents.
And yes, the threat of arrest was a possibility but, in San Francisco, we worked with the cops and all minors arrested were taken to Valencia St. Station and processed without charges.
I am proud of my daughter for taking that leap.
I bet she has a pocketful of condoms too.
He must facilitate her safety after all.
appleannie1
4. Vets of the war are simply asking for recognition. They earned it. So why not give it to them?
Luminous Animal
25. Recognition for destroying a country making it safe
for western oil contracts?
**** that.
And yet Iraq isn't destroyed and we don't have any of its oil.
Motown_Johnny
6. I think that our vets have enough emotional issues without
confusing them by throwing them a welcome home parade three or four months before sending them back into a war zone.
I almost always agree with Rachel, but not this time.
denbot
10. I don't think our little veteran brains will get too "confused".
But thank you for your concern..
YOHABLO
9. No Parades Please
This was not a Victory for the U.S. .. we didn't win anything. We left a country in shambles and men, women and children homeless, maimed or dead. The men and women service members returning home should be given education, health care and a job.
denbot
11. We are not talking about a victory parade, just a veterans parade.
Read pinboy3niner's post, up stream.
Luminous Animal
24. I'd attend that "parade" if the veterans were required to carry signs
of the names of the hundreds of thousands of the people we killed in Iraq.
And I'll guaran-goddam-tee you 95% of those were killed by the Baathists and jihadists you were rooting for and the other 5% were killed in the crossfire while we were trying to get rid of your wife-beating, baby-killing, clit-slitting Islamist buddies.
And then there's this...
Nuclear Unicorn
43. Please don't talk about vets as if they're quivering invalids
Even those with admitted problems prefer to find their strengths rather than dwell on their setbacks.
And "waste of time" or not it's still a good idea.
Well done, lass. Well done.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002287130#post12
