DU on the verge of mutiny?

[dandi]

The primitives are getting restless. Banging on the war drums, painting their faces, warbling angrily at one another, sending up burnt offerings to Gaia, crapping all over the place. In other words, just like a Saturday night in Zuccotti park.

loudsue  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 10:48 AM
Original message
I'm sure the DU admins have done a cost/benefit analysis of small donors $$
 It's the same type of cost/benefit analysis the rest of the economy in the USA has done. If you can't pay, you can't play -- at least not BY THE SAME RULES as your wealthier counterparts.

I guess there aren't that many $10, $15 and $20 donations among us on DU, because those who have been contributing the smaller amounts will probably not be contributing anything now that the minimum price for a star will be $42. I'm sure the rise in price will make up for all the smaller donations. I've bought a star for a fellow DUer a time or two, but at $42 a pop, I sure won't be able to do that again.

After all, it's all about the numbers. But once again, the numbers will leave me behind. It may not be anything personal on the part of DU, but it sure feels personal to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2303898

Octafish  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. With you, loudsue. 
 Pay to play isn't my game. Can't afford it, currently or in the foreseeable future.

If I was rich? I'd give and support those who contribute.

One thing's for sure: Rich or poor, I still wouldn't be a Republican.

PS: K&R and it stayed at "zero."

RC  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Hopefuly the Admin can see who rec'd and unrec'd and maybe kick out those who
 have high unrec'd for any and all OP, without posting why, regardless of content.

Temper, temper.

loudsue  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. That would be nice, Capitalocracy, but incentives to lure the poorest
 among us is probably not a priority.

SidDithers  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Sorry. I guess I read the "if you can't pay, you can't play" part ...
 as saying that your ability to "play" at DU3 will be limited by your ability to "pay"

Sid

EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. "by the same rules". nt

Beth had better call her buddy Hugo before he takes the dirt nap, and find out how to handle this outrage.

lbrtbell  (1000+ posts)       Mon Nov-14-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. You're locked out of the donors-only groups
 We're also exposed to flash-based ads that really slow you down if you're on dial-up.

That definitely affects how we can post.

SidDithers  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Groups will be open to all DU'ers on DU3...nt
 Sid

They don't care. They want all the goodies...for free. It's just not fair that someone else might be able to afford more.

loudsue  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Well hello Desertrose!!!
 Doin' fine! Getting all those Senior discounts while they last, before the rest of the world decides to raise prices on everyone!! I'm more & more convinced that everyone is raising prices because they see the whole globe is going broke, and everyone wants to get theirs while there is still someone to milk.

  So good to see you!

hlthe2b  (1000+ posts)       Mon Nov-14-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yes... loudsue
 I wonder if the changes to the community itself have been considered. I understand and respect Skinner's attempts to change for what he believes the "better." Yet, I can't help but find it dismaying that some of the same DUers who have lauded OccupyWallStreet movements across the country and a call for more fairness, a more equitable society are now berating those who express concern with inadvertently converting DU to a "have" and "have not" community. Those who were able to make small contributions still had pride in feeling they were supporting DU--no more. Those who were more flush had the ability to help out those who were struggling, no more.

Again, I respect what Skinner is trying to do and feel certain he will take those concerns to heart, in terms of trying to find some additional solutions. For those who would deride the concern for the disenfranchised members, I say, grow a damned heart and find some compassion. The hypocrisy is astounding.

It's a web site, idiot, not a soup kitchen. These people definitely need to get out more.

loudsue  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. It may be an error in that it disenfranchises those of us who felt like we were part of a community
 only to be put in our proper economic place. But it will probably not be an economic error on the part of the admins, as more an more of the "elite" democrats will find a home here, and us more liberal riff raff will be downsized. It's just more of a shift to the right that has overtaken the entire world. There's really no use in trying to fight it anymore. Money rules. Everything. Values, not so much.

boston bean  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. They make more $$ if you have to see the ads. It is a financial calculation.
 lower donors aren't carrying their weight and DU can make more if people have to look at the ads.

Their measley contributions and the small donation needed to buy another a star was less $$ for DU. They can make more off the ads.

Then add on top of that, they want to make it even more expensive for people with less money to be able to avoid them, or enjoy DU for the same price as a wealthier donor who can afford $42/year upfront.

All you people who can't afford it, can go on a payment plan of $5/month, but your cost for the same access will be $60/year.

It's regressive, and not in any way progressive.

It's capitalistic. It's the American way!!! It's pathetic.

boston bean  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. There are still other features and bells and whistles that people who cannot afford a star
 will not be able to use.

And to top it off, they have made it more difficult for people to buy STARS for others, by making it $60/year.

Can you not see that this is a huge change?

boston bean  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. yes, while the better off pay less and the one's who can't afford a lump sum pay more.
 Edited on Mon Nov-14-11 11:21 AM by boston bean
And no, you do not know for what access will be limited.

However, I do know for sure this will price some people out, and will make others unable to buy them a "subscription" so they can experience the full DU like a more wealthy or a better off DUer could.

Class warfare comes to the Hive. Oh, this is getting good.

JanMichael  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Weird part about these posts
 is how that meme "it's just a little less, suck it up" has made it's way into the discourse of this board.

frazzled  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. Yes, it is truly the American way: pay to play
 You can pay for the privilege of not having to wait in line to get through TSA at the airport. Hey, the rest of you--you can stand like pathetic refugees in line for 45 minutes and still make your plane. What are you complaining about?

You can pay thousands of dollars a plate for a dinner to have access to a political candidate and push your agenda. Or you can be a volunteer schlub and get no hearing at all. You still get to vote!

You can buy platinum insurance and get everything from breast implants to open heart surgery, no questions asked. Or you can wait in line, suffering, for twelve hours at the emergency room before someone determines you had a stroke. Hey, a doctor will eventually see you!

I think it's laughable that this discussion board, which rails against corporate greed and the capitalistic way morning, noon, and night is suddenly "wha, me worry" about instituting a full-fledged two-tiered class system (yes, it's always been that way here, but much less dramatically so.) We all questioned why BofA needed to charge people $5 a month for using their debit cards when they were already making handsome profits. But nobody has asked why there should suddenly be an approximate eightfold hike in access to this board during a time of economic difficulty and high unemployment. We don't even stop to ask what the money is needed for. There are 177,366 user registrations on this board. If 10% of those registered users pay the minimum $42 yearly fee, that is $750,000--three-quarters of a million dollars. And we're not even talking advertising revenues. Is that a reasonable amount of money to run this web site? I don't know. Maybe someone else does. But nobody even asks.

-snipped for excessive ranting-

jeff47 (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Bullshit, and you know it.
 The required fee to post in DU3: $0.
The required fee to use groups in DU3: $0.

The only difference that has been announced so far is no ads if you pay. That's it.

If you're so sure that they'll introduce some critical "pay only" feature in the future, then why the hell are you still here supporting such evil people?

frazzled  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Oh, the old bullshit response.
 How terribly clever.

This sort of thing is why I don't want to pay $42 for the privilege of not having obnoxious ads flashing in my face. Why would I pay to be abused by stupid people?

You know really, I don't even notice most of the ads here or at DU. They seem incredibly distracted by shiny objects.

JanMichael  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. for many people, this is an important community in their lives...IE:
 Redstone died recently...one of the first things I did was a search on his posts to see if he had been sick, if I had missed something, etc.

Many people read him for years...without the search function, finding his lasts posts on DU would not have been possible. So, no...you cannot get the "full DU experience" without a star beside your name.

"The full DU experience".    You can go to the day room of any local psych ward and get that.

YankeyMCC (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
21. For DU - a web service the new system may be
 necessary - I'll leave that to Skinner and his team to decide. It would be nice to keep it more open as it is today, or easier to be a donor. Perhaps at some point they'll find a feasible way to allow the small donater's to participate equally, maybe a subsidy or something.

But your point is very apt when it comes to a society. Ability to pay should not determine you're worth as a human being when it comes to being able to live a life with dignity and reasonable amount of security in all aspects, shelter, food, health...

Shelter, food, health, full access to DUmmyland, all those basic needs of Humankind.

msongs  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. so, who on this thread turns off their TV set everytime ads come on? nt

tkmorris (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. I DVR everything, primarily for that purpose
 On the rare occasion that I want to watch a broadcast as it happens, I pause it as it starts. 8 minutes for a half hour program and 16 for an hour. So no, I don't turn the TV off, but I don't watch the ads either.

And you pay for that DVR, right? Or does your cable provider give it to you free?

tcaudilllg  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-14-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm looking forward to the decline of this place.
 The sites which demand least will always prevail over those who demand more.

Oooooo, them's fightin' words right there. If I were $kimmer, I'd march through there with my ass-kicking boots on and tell all the whiny little bitches to hit the road.
 
 

 
 
 
 





 


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

[Celtic Rose]

My question is, how was the amount settled on.  Is that how much the admins expect to get from ads for those that don't donate, or are they just going to be hosed ridiculously. 

PS  Wouldn't internet add-ons that block ads work just as well, for free?

[Gina]

I LOVE THIS ONE

lower donors aren't carrying their weight

 

Yeh, that sounds like all the people that aren't paying taxes 

[jukin]

OCCUPY DU!!!!!!!11111!!!eleventy

[Mike220]

Whoa. I thought we would have to see the rollout of DU3 before the bitching and complaining started. Looks like they decided to go Lord of the Flies before they even got to the island.

Not that I expected "a better show..."

[Rebel]

Hey DUmmies, you're paying 3 SALARIES to people who pawn their responsibilities off to you loons and then call it an "honor" to serve. What do you expect? Skinner to work for free? 

[beefeater]

How many DUmmies will move their accounts to one of those small community websites with no fees and stick it to the man?


MOVE YOUR ACCOUNT DAY!!  DUAC DUAC

[Karin]

find a feasible way to allow the small donater's to participate equally, maybe a subsidy or something.

She wants a subsidy?      Everybody send in your tax return to $kinner, and he'll make the evaluation of how much more to charge to certain people; then turn around and credit others' accounts.  Is that how you picture it, DUmmie?  I think she probably does.  Some people will have to pay $100, some $75, so that others will be charged $5. 

Or maybe everybody has to write to $kinner their own personal sob story, just how poor they are.  The most pathetic essays get the $5 deal, with other people who have normal lives having to pay out the nose. 

Either way, it all sounds like an administrative nightmare and a pile of work.  Forget about that new baby, there's redistribution to be done!   

[dandi]

This is how out of touch with reality they are. In the minds of many over there, DU is an actual, tangible, physical world where Socialism and Leftist idealism take form. It is a reality separate from the rest of the world that operates, frankly, as a "heaven" for liberals. No conservatives allowed. No capitalism. No conservative thought. Both individuals and outcomes are perfectly equal. Everything is pure, crystalline, dogmatic. They are still miserable, of course, and filled with hate, but it is like the bittersweet piercing of the vein by a junkie's needle -the loathing coexists with happiness because it's the only thing they know.

I'm beginning to see why they are so jarred and panicked when a conservative shows up to troll, and why they are so gleeful when they get banned. I used to think they were just spoiled, immature and stupid. But it's now becoming clear, with this latest turn of events, just how deep the mental illness runs there. They hate themselves, their lives, and everyone in them so badly that they've dissociated themselves from what you and I consider the real world and have wrapped themselves in the false one. Now that world is cracking as Skinner plans to demand more compensation and that "pay for play" they so abhor. No more freebies. No more pure Socialism. Reality is rapping on the door. Skinner is not one of them and does not live in their world, he simply watches over it like an ant farm, and they're beginning to realize it. Sad.

But hey, then again, a lot of them are just assholes.

[tanstaafl]

Whoa. I thought we would have to see the rollout of DU3 before the bitching and complaining started. Looks like they decided to go Lord of the Flies before they even got to the island.

Not that I expected "a better show..."

Whatchya wanna bet that a petition shows up on the DUmp before Thanksgiving?

Heck, by the end of this week?

And I thought I would have to wait until Christmas for this present!

[TVDOC]

This is how out of touch with reality they are. In the minds of many over there, DU is an actual, tangible, physical world where Socialism and Leftist idealism take form. It is a reality separate from the rest of the world that operates, frankly, as a "heaven" for liberals. No conservatives allowed. No capitalism. No conservative thought. Both individuals and outcomes are perfectly equal. Everything is pure, crystalline, dogmatic. They are still miserable, of course, and filled with hate, but it is like the bittersweet piercing of the vein by a junkie's needle -the loathing coexists with happiness because it's the only thing they know.

I'm beginning to see why they are so jarred and panicked when a conservative shows up to troll, and why they are so gleeful when they get banned. I used to think they were just spoiled, immature and stupid. But it's now becoming clear, with this latest turn of events, just how deep the mental illness runs there. They hate themselves, their lives, and everyone in them so badly that they've dissociated themselves from what you and I consider the real world and have wrapped themselves in the false one. Now that world is cracking as Skinner plans to demand more compensation and that "pay for play" they so abhor. No more freebies. No more pure Socialism. Reality is rapping on the door. Skinner is not one of them and does not live in their world, he simply watches over it like an ant farm, and they're beginning to realize it. Sad.

But hey, then again, a lot of them are just assholes.

Possibly the most insightful analysis of DU I've read lately......

doc

[FreeBorn]

Cheetos Jumbo Puffed Original Cheese Snacks, 9.75oz Bags (Pack of 10)
by Frito Lay
Be the first to review this item | Like (0)
Price:   $42.41
In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Cheapees.
2 new from $42.41

Decisions, decisions !!! Buy groceries or support DU???!!! 

[Ballygrl]

Occupy DU?

[Ballygrl]

And why do they care so much about having a star? it's like when they get all upset when a thread is unrec'd.

[Freeper]

And why do they care so much about having a star? it's like when they get all upset when a thread is unrec'd.

They are mentally children is why.

[diesel driver]

frazzled  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-14-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. Yes, it is truly the American way: pay to play
 You can pay for the privilege of not having to wait in line to get through TSA at the airport. Hey, the rest of you--you can stand like pathetic refugees in line for 45 minutes and still make your plane. What are you complaining about?

You can pay thousands of dollars a plate for a dinner to have access to a political candidate and push your agenda. Or you can be a volunteer schlub and get no hearing at all. You still get to vote!

You can buy platinum insurance and get everything from breast implants to open heart surgery, no questions asked. Or you can wait in line, suffering, for twelve hours at the emergency room before someone determines you had a stroke. Hey, a doctor will eventually see you!

I think it's laughable that this discussion board, which rails against corporate greed and the capitalistic way morning, noon, and night is suddenly "wha, me worry" about instituting a full-fledged two-tiered class system (yes, it's always been that way here, but much less dramatically so.) We all questioned why BofA needed to charge people $5 a month for using their debit cards when they were already making handsome profits. But nobody has asked why there should suddenly be an approximate eightfold hike in access to this board during a time of economic difficulty and high unemployment. We don't even stop to ask what the money is needed for. There are 177,366 user registrations on this board. If 10% of those registered users pay the minimum $42 yearly fee, that is $750,000--three-quarters of a million dollars. And we're not even talking advertising revenues. Is that a reasonable amount of money to run this web site? I don't know. Maybe someone else does. But nobody even asks.

                                                                                     
                                                                                                  

Maybe you should get Lord Zero to appoint a "czar" to oversee administrator greed at DU.  

This is just too damned funny!          

[GOBUCKS]

I don't know why the DUmp deadbeats are so worried.

At the rate it's going, DU3 won't be rolled out until most of them are dead anyway.

[diesel driver]

And why do they care so much about having a star? it's like when they get all upset when a thread is unrec'd.

To make up for all those gold stars they didn't get in kindergarden.

Mentally, they are still there.    

[Ballygrl]

They are mentally children is why.

LOL, as I was reading the thread someone complained that the thread was unrec'd. It really is like they're kids and wanting a gold star from the Teacher.

[Freeper]

LOL, as I was reading the thread someone complained that the thread was unrec'd. It really is like they're kids and wanting a gold star from the Teacher. n

It's sad really, that all one has to do to ruin their whole day is unrec a stupid thread.

[Ballygrl]

To make up for all those gold stars they didn't get in kindergarden.

Mentally, they are still there.    

Isn't that the truth!

[Celtic Rose]

<----- I have 5 stars, and they were all free 

Just some perspective for the DUmmies from an evil Rethuglican

[Duke Nukum]

It's sad really, that all one has to do to ruin their whole day is unrec a stupid thread.

Actually, that almost makes it worth becoming a mole.

[Evil_Conservative]

Not sure if someone here has mentioned this or not yet... but why doesn't the DUmmy just install Adblock (Free app on Firefox & Chrome) to avoid the ads for.... FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE????

[thundley4]

Not sure if someone here has mentioned this or not yet... but why doesn't the DUmmy just install Adblock (Free app on Firefox & Chrome) to avoid the ads for.... FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE????

The only problem with that is missing out on the wisdom of the DU Adbot.