Author Topic: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit  (Read 4299 times)

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Offline Ptarmigan

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Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« on: August 26, 2011, 10:15:46 PM »
Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
http://www.gazette.com/articles/jury-123946-burglar-lot.html#ixzz1WAJvzqf5

This is really stupid. Colorado has become leftist like California and Massachusetts.  :mental:
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Offline catsmtrods

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 04:17:32 AM »
I'm on the fence with this one.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 06:46:56 AM »
One less scumbag on the planet.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 07:00:24 AM »
Lots of hair-splitting on this one, to wit the right to defend your HOME against burglars and other scumbags, but not businesses.

But that's the law in Colorado, apparently.

If you have to shoot a scumbag in Colorado, you'd better make sure that all the criteria are in place:

1.  Scumbag on my property? Check.
2.  Scumbag in the process of stealing something of mine? Check.
3.  Scumbag armed with a weapon of some type? Check.
4.  Scumbag running away after I've got the drop on his ass? Check.

Put the weapon down, then. Can't shoot the scumbag since he's high-tailing it out of there, or is trying to hide someplace where he thinks I can't see him.

That's a lot of checking to do at 4 a.m.

Why not just say, "**** it," and just leave the doors and windows open? That way nobody gets hurt and while your stuff is stolen, the important thing is the scumbag is allowed to live to steal again.

All that said, civil lawsuits are apparently "easier" to prove in court -- in this case, that the scumbag's death was wrongful and that equates to $$ -- and that's why the judicial system is clogged full of them.

I wonder how much the attorneys are getting out of it? And whether or not the business owners are actually going to pay?

Remember the bullshit that OJ pulled to avoid paying when he lost HIS civil lawsuit for wrongful death?
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Offline Alpha Mare

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 07:02:18 AM »
I'm sure the meth-head was only thinking of his little girl the whole time.  ::)  
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 07:12:08 AM »
Siding w/ the jury on this based on the article, maybe there is more to the story but how are you going to shoot somebody through a door and claim that it was justified.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 08:17:18 AM »
Siding w/ the jury on this based on the article, maybe there is more to the story but how are you going to shoot somebody through a door and claim that it was justified.
On the other hand, when you fire a shot through a shed door, what are the odds you intended to kill the guy inside?  They didn't even wing the other guy, it sounds more like they were trying to scare the crap out of them, and actually hitting the one was an accident.  I feel for the little girl, but more because her dad was a messed up methhead thief than because he's gone...she's probably going to be better off without him.
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 09:59:25 AM »
On the other hand, when you fire a shot through a shed door, what are the odds you intended to kill the guy inside?  They didn't even wing the other guy, it sounds more like they were trying to scare the crap out of them, and actually hitting the one was an accident.  I feel for the little girl, but more because her dad was a messed up methhead thief than because he's gone...she's probably going to be better off without him.

Shoot = deadly force = intent to kill
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 10:04:43 AM »
On the other hand, when you fire a shot through a shed door, what are the odds you intended to kill the guy inside?  They didn't even wing the other guy, it sounds more like they were trying to scare the crap out of them, and actually hitting the one was an accident.  I feel for the little girl, but more because her dad was a messed up methhead thief than because he's gone...she's probably going to be better off without him.

Ditto what RC said.  You don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, and you don't shoot anything you don't intend to kill.

Bottom line, the tweekers are scumbags, but they didn't present an imminent threat.  Had the guy turned around and tried to go for his knife, all bets are off and no jury would have given anyone a dime.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 11:08:01 AM »
Siding w/ the jury on this based on the article, maybe there is more to the story but how are you going to shoot somebody through a door and claim that it was justified.

This make me think of Stephen Kings the Shining.  ' Here's Johnny'

This gives me the horrors, a woman alone hears someone break in, she grabs a gun runs into the bathroom and looks the door.

She hides but the door knob keeps turning and as she calls out Who Are You no answer.

So far we have a lone armed woman hiding in the bathroom and someone is trying to get in.

[A ] this is your 18 year old daughter, what do you think she should do next ?????

  This is your wife, what do you think would be a safe move for her???

[C]   This is your grandma, old and frail, what do you believe should she do??

[D]  This is in fact YOU who have come home to find while you were at work thieves broke in.   This becomes a problem when the police cannot help you.  You awake in the night to the sound of people again breaking in, grab a gun and get IN a locked bathroom.   You just pray the people will take what they want and go away.  BUT they for some reason want to get to you , do you sit back and even armed wait for the door to be broken down.   Do you stay calm and collective and reason all these things out----???

 

Offline RightCoast

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 11:20:39 AM »
This make me think of Stephen Kings the Shining.  ' Here's Johnny'

This gives me the horrors, a woman alone hears someone break in, she grabs a gun runs into the bathroom and looks the door.

She hides but the door knob keeps turning and as she calls out Who Are You no answer.

So far we have a lone armed woman hiding in the bathroom and someone is trying to get in.

[A ] this is your 18 year old daughter, what do you think she should do next ?????

  This is your wife, what do you think would be a safe move for her???

[C]   This is your grandma, old and frail, what do you believe should she do??

[D]  This is in fact YOU who have come home to find while you were at work thieves broke in.   This becomes a problem when the police cannot help you.  You awake in the night to the sound of people again breaking in, grab a gun and get IN a locked bathroom.   You just pray the people will take what they want and go away.  BUT they for some reason want to get to you , do you sit back and even armed wait for the door to be broken down.   Do you stay calm and collective and reason all these things out----???


Read the article. There was a very specific set of circumstances leading up to the shooting that had NOTHING AT ALL to do with whatever it you just wrote above.  The property owners were hiding after hours and in the dark with guns, the property owners chased bad guy 1 off their property over a fence by shooting at him, bad guy 2 was chased into a shed and shot through the door.  Does that sound like my daughter home alone and scared hiding in the bathroom?

Eupher gave some facts about self-defense in Colorado, read those too.
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Offline Kryder

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 03:25:11 PM »
Lots of hair-splitting on this one, to wit the right to defend your HOME against burglars and other scumbags, but not businesses.

But that's the law in Colorado, apparently.

If you have to shoot a scumbag in Colorado, you'd better make sure that all the criteria are in place:

1.  Scumbag on my property? Check.
2.  Scumbag in the process of stealing something of mine? Check.
3.  Scumbag armed with a weapon of some type? Check.
4.  Scumbag running away after I've got the drop on his ass? Check.

Put the weapon down, then. Can't shoot the scumbag since he's high-tailing it out of there, or is trying to hide someplace where he thinks I can't see him.

That's a lot of checking to do at 4 a.m.

Why not just say, "**** it," and just leave the doors and windows open? That way nobody gets hurt and while your stuff is stolen, the important thing is the scumbag is allowed to live to steal again.

All that said, civil lawsuits are apparently "easier" to prove in court -- in this case, that the scumbag's death was wrongful and that equates to $$ -- and that's why the judicial system is clogged full of them.

I wonder how much the attorneys are getting out of it? And whether or not the business owners are actually going to pay?

Remember the bullshit that OJ pulled to avoid paying when he lost HIS civil lawsuit for wrongful death?


I completely agree with you in this.. In 1999, my father and I were throwing a baseball in our front yard after we had a neighborhood barbeque.  When it started to get dark, we decided to go back into the house, and all of a sudden we heard a scream.  Considering that we lived in Miami, and had experienced random burglaries and thefts, my father, who was putting away the baseball gloves, grabs a baseball bat and takes off down the street. When I finally caught up to the area in which we heard the scream, I saw my dad standing over an completely unconscious hispanic male, along with some lady with her shirt torn and her 6 year old child wrapped around her leg. 

Long story short, the mugger sustained a fractured skull, and surgery had to be done to relieve pressure from his brain.  The DA declined to pursue charges of excessive force based on the fact that it was really only 1 swing of the bat, and that my father didn't continue to beat this man after he was rendered a non-threat. The civil side was an entirely different matter.  The family of the criminal had contacted a plaintiffs attorney, and they tried to take my father for all he had in a lawsuit.  They said that even though this man was armed, he never brandished the knife, therefore the use of a deadly weapon was not considered within the scope of the self-defense.  The case went on for what felt like ages, and eventually a jury trial found my father negligent and awarded the plaintiff around $500,000 in damages to the mugger. 

Of course my father appealed the verdict, and requested it be tried in a different district that wasn't predominantly hispanic, and the verdict was overturned and the plaintiff was awarded not a penny.  My point in bringing this story up is that it's pretty ridiculous that there is a legal system in place that potentially penalizes people who are just trying to protect themselves and their properties. I guess that's the world we live in though.   

Offline CG6468

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2011, 03:29:29 PM »
But there is no reason we have to live in that world.
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Offline Kryder

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2011, 03:44:04 PM »
Unless you have a spaceship with FTL capabilities, I don't really see much of an alternative. The truth is, if you listen to the radio in South Florida, count the amount of "lawyer referral services" telling you to call them if you've been in an accident, whether it was your fault or not. Then you'll understand that the problem is only getting worse, and also why insurance rates are getting more expensive by the day. 

Offline CG6468

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2011, 04:02:59 PM »
Same thing in and around Chicago, and, I suspect, throughout our country.

It's often said that there are too many lawyers. Not true. There are too many idiots, possibly like your neighbor, who sit on the juries that grant these idiotic awards. That's why lawyers have "Jury Experts," to review the jury panels to eliminate people who don't agree with their cases.
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Offline RonBush

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2011, 04:12:12 PM »
I live in Georgia.  My wife is a lawyer.  We have talked about this.  If a burglar comes into your home and you shoot and kill him, no jury would ever convict you, and for that reason, no prosecutor would ever bother to bring it to court.  Keep in mind we are talking about a burglar in the home, not car lot, and we are talking about Georgia and not Colorado.

Offline CG6468

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2011, 04:13:49 PM »
You wife's a lawyer? Specializing in what?
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Offline RonBush

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2011, 04:29:05 PM »
You wife's a lawyer? Specializing in what?

She does appeals.  She only works for other lawyers. 

Offline CG6468

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2011, 04:43:09 PM »
She does appeals.  She only works for other lawyers. 

Criminal? Product liability? Wrongful death?
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Offline RonBush

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2011, 04:52:22 PM »
All kinds.  An appeal has to be done in a certain form and most lawyers don't like doing it.  It is a specialization.  I don't know much about this though.  She is a lawyer, not me. 

Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2011, 04:57:31 PM »
What do you do Mr Bush?

Offline RonBush

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2011, 05:07:48 PM »
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Offline RonBush

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2011, 05:12:24 PM »
What do you do Mr Mann?

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2011, 05:20:22 PM »
I have been the victim of numerous breakin/robberies on my farm and out buildings the last couple of years. They have stolen or attempted to steal almost everything I have or had. I don't give a great big G** D*** any more. I catch him stealing my stuff, I'm going to shoot him, tie his dead ass behind the tractor and drag him off into the woods to rot. He's acting like an animal, I'm gonna treat his carcass like a dead rabied animal.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2011, 09:38:55 PM »
Ditto what RC said.  You don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, and you don't shoot anything you don't intend to kill.

Bottom line, the tweekers are scumbags, but they didn't present an imminent threat.  Had the guy turned around and tried to go for his knife, all bets are off and no jury would have given anyone a dime.
He shot at a door.
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