casualties mount in New Jersey employee benefits battle

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1322067

xchrom  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jun-18-11 12:53 PM
Original message
 
Casualties mount in NJ employee benefits battle

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NJ_EMPLOYEE_B...

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The struggle to legislate higher pension and health benefits contributions for 500,000 public workers in New Jersey is shaking up the political status quo: Organized labor is attacking its traditional Democratic allies and pro-union Democrats are pitted against colleagues who plan to vote to limit collective bargaining.

The in-fighting, which shows no sign of letting up as the worker benefits bill moves through the Legislature, has diminished the unions' clout over the legislative process and driven a wedge through the state Democratic Party.

Among the discord, Republican Gov. Chris Christie appears to be the winner. Christie promised in his 2009 campaign to rein in public employee benefits as a way to help stabilize runaway property taxes. And his budget-slashing ways and "shared sacrifice" mantra have earned him the adoration of fiscal conservatives across the country.

"What you're seeing is reality settling in because if you're not going to raise taxes there's really no other way to do this," said Jennifer Duffy, senior editor of The Cook Political Report, a nonpartisan newsletter. "This is something Chris Christie has been talking about for a long time. It's a win for him whether Democrats like it or not."

Ha ha.

[RightCoast]

CT is going in the exact opposite direction, public unions continue to win long term contract extensions.  Our new socialist governor has killed the golden goose through huge tax increases that are already pushing corporations out.

They actually passed a retro active tax increase. In August, CT will start withholding state taxes back to Jan 1, 2011.

I can't wait to get the eff out of New Russia (formerly new england)

[BlueStateSaint]

Ya know, that's what I like about Gov. Cuomo here--he realizes that, although he's a Dem, that something has to be done. 

[formerlurker]

CT is going in the exact opposite direction, public unions continue to win long term contract extensions.  Our new socialist governor has killed the golden goose through huge tax increases that are already pushing corporations out.

They actually passed a retro active tax increase. In August, CT will start withholding state taxes back to Jan 1, 2011.

I can't wait to get the eff out of New Russia (formerly new england)

Actually coupe deval has busted unions, and has done a major overhaul to state pensions in MA.  Makes him almost tolerable.  Not quite there yet though.

[Freeper]

CT is going in the exact opposite direction, public unions continue to win long term contract extensions.  Our new socialist governor has killed the golden goose through huge tax increases that are already pushing corporations out.

They actually passed a retro active tax increase. In August, CT will start withholding state taxes back to Jan 1, 2011.

I can't wait to get the eff out of New Russia (formerly new england)

Ouch that's gotta hurt.

[Tucker]

Thaddeus Kosciuszko (76 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Jun-18-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Government employees believe they should be insulated from the economic downturn.
   
The problem is that middle-class taxpayers, who are already hurting, would have more pain inflicted upon them, in order to ensure government employees maintain the lifestyle they have become accustomed to.

murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Jun-18-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. I am sorry your informative thread got sidetracked by
   
someone who is now tombstoned. I'm sorry, too, that he misused the Kosciuszko name, a Revolutionary War figure whom I admire.

Paging Thaddeus.

Thaddeus please pick up the white courtesy phone.

[Ballygrl]

CT is going in the exact opposite direction, public unions continue to win long term contract extensions.  Our new socialist governor has killed the golden goose through huge tax increases that are already pushing corporations out.

They actually passed a retro active tax increase. In August, CT will start withholding state taxes back to Jan 1, 2011.

I can't wait to get the eff out of New Russia (formerly new england)

I guess the CT taxpayers aren't screaming then?

[Ballygrl]

I Google Ads

[Ballygrl]

Thaddeus Kosciuszko  (76 posts) Sat Jun-18-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Government employees believe they should be insulated from the economic downturn.
   
The problem is that middle-class taxpayers, who are already hurting, would have more pain inflicted upon them, in order to ensure government employees maintain the lifestyle they have become accustomed to.

xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Jun-18-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. um -- er -- no.
   
they bargained for those benies -- and those folks PAY TAXES.

people who say stuff like you do always mentions some other unknown citizens taxes but never the taxes public sector employees pay, why is that?

tax the rich, STOP, END corporate welfare, cut from the top -- not the bottom, we need those people spending their money.

Um yes!

Union members are outnumbered by average citizens, you have average citizens who can't pay into their own damn retirements and through taxes ARE FORCED to pay for the wonderful retirements for a minority of citizens. Christie needs to declare bankruptcy and all union contracts are null and void.

[Ballygrl]

Kosciuszko was pizza'd? too bad the truth needs to be suppressed.

[franksolich]

Um yes!

Union members are outnumbered by average citizens, you have average citizens who can't pay into their own damn retirements and through taxes ARE FORCED to pay for the wonderful retirements for a minority of citizens. Christie needs to declare bankruptcy and all union contracts are null and void.

It's been so long since I took economics classes in college, and maybe perhaps I might have misunderstood something, but it seems to me we were told that $1 used by the private sector eventually multiplies into $7 in the gross national product.....and that $1 used by the government either remains only $1, or most likely diminishes as it goes through the bureaucracy.

"Live money" that grows and multiplies, versus "dead money" that decays.

Public employees are paid in money used by the government.  The fact that public employees pay taxes on their income means nothing, as the effect of having the government pay them (in money that decreases), far far far nullifies the taxes they pay.  And not to mention, the general public pays the taxes of the public employees, to begin with.

This argument that public employees pay taxes too is true only on the surface; they're paying those taxes with money from other people's pockets.

[GOBUCKS]

It's been so long since I took economics classes in college, and maybe perhaps I might have misunderstood something, but it seems to me we were told that $1 used by the private sector eventually multiplies into $7 in the gross national product.....and that $1 used by the government either remains only $1, or most likely diminishes as it goes through the bureaucracy.

I think we learned not long ago that $1 paid out to winos living in Buicks is worth $1.84 to the economy.

[franksolich]

I think we learned not long ago that $1 paid out to winos living in Buicks is worth $1.84 to the economy.

Yeah, that's something Bela Pelosi pulled out of her rectal aperture.

And $1 spent on food stamps doesn't mean the recipient got $1 in food stamps; probably more like about seventy-five cents, given the bureaucratic costs associated with distributing them.

Anyway, the big economics lesson being: money spent by individuals on their own free will grows and multiplies, while money spent by a governmental entity decreases.

[Ballygrl]

It's been so long since I took economics classes in college, and maybe perhaps I might have misunderstood something, but it seems to me we were told that $1 used by the private sector eventually multiplies into $7 in the gross national product.....and that $1 used by the government either remains only $1, or most likely diminishes as it goes through the bureaucracy.

"Live money" that grows and multiplies, versus "dead money" that decays.

Public employees are paid in money used by the government.  The fact that public employees pay taxes on their income means nothing, as the effect of having the government pay them (in money that decreases), far far far nullifies the taxes they pay.  And not to mention, the general public pays the taxes of the public employees, to begin with.

This argument that public employees pay taxes too is true only on the surface; they're paying those taxes with money from other people's pockets.

To add insult to injury, a large amount of people who retire move out of State because of the property tax burden, so in fact they're taking money from the taxpayers and spending it somewhere else.

[RightCoast]

I guess the CT taxpayers aren't screaming then?

CT is a lost cause, just as far gone as California.

[franksolich]

To add insult to injury, a large amount of people who retire move out of State because of the property tax burden, so in fact they're taking money from the taxpayers and spending it somewhere else.

Yeah, that's another one.

It may sound draconian, but it seems to me it might be a good idea for places to consider paying pensions only to those people still living in those places, so as to keep the money there.  I'm not advocating it, but saying it should be considered.

Make your money off the taxpayers of Omaha for 30 years, stay in Omaha after retirement so as to keep those pension dollars in Omaha, rather then bleeding them down to Florida or Arizona.