Unanswered Questions about Barack Obama

[gurn]

What about a sub-forum devoted to Obama & the Birthers?

You could call it the Birther Room or the Birthing Room.

I've always been pretty neutral on the subject.
I've actually read the immigration laws, BTW.

I never paid much attention. But I'm starting to pay attention now.
I think he was probably born in Hawaii, but there are a few big red flags here.
Most obvious, is his own behavior. He's sure as Hell acting like he's hiding something.

BUT...the bottom line legally, is that the State of Hawaii is not going to rescind that
short-form it has already certified, as long as Abercrombie is Governor.

The bottom line politically is anybody's guess. Is it possible Obama won't even run in 2012?

If there is any fire under all this smoke -- wow! In the words of Conway Twitty,
"Think about it, darlin'."

This business with the Social Security Numbers is very strange.

http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/more-mystery-with-obamas-connecticut-social-security-no/

And remember how his Grandma died right befoe the election?

All of this stuff might just be a confluence of coincidences.
If not, America owes the Birthers an apology.

Also -- is it possible this might cause him not to even run in 2012?

[Chris]

I don't see what's wrong with the Politics forum. 

I suppose we could consider it.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I hate child forums. I seldom visit them so the parent forum always shows as having new posts.

How about a pinned thread?

[Boudicca]

I personally find the term "Birther" as offputting as the term "Teabagger", fwiw.
Posing legitimate questions about the qualifications of the president to actually BE the president, based upon, other things, his steadfast refusal to supply the requested birth certificate to the tune of defending millions of dollars' worth of lawsuits does not constitute a reason to insult those who DO question his right to be president.
I see no reason to hide these sorts of posts at all; in fact, we should probably be posting more of them.

[gurn]

I'm just thinking there are a lot of different issues here.

Now there is the Social Security issue. A couple of months ago, it was Abercrombie's
vow to release the records & then his backing off from that.

Soldiers have faced court-martial. There were several court cases.
Now there is the potential criminal trial of the retired
Air Force officer who got Obama's draft records & Social Security Number.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/27372400/detail.html

[Attero Dominatus]

I hate child forums. I seldom visit them so the parent forum always shows as having new posts.

How about a pinned thread?

[Attero Dominatus]

I personally find the term "Birther" as offputting as the term "Teabagger", fwiw.
Posing legitimate questions about the qualifications of the president to actually BE the president, based upon, other things, his steadfast refusal to supply the requested birth certificate to the tune of defending millions of dollars' worth of lawsuits does not constitute a reason to insult those who DO question his right to be president.
I see no reason to hide these sorts of posts at all; in fact, we should probably be posting more of them.

I have no idea why it is considered 'crazy' to want to know why Obama has put so much effort into hiding his past. To be eligible for presidency, the president has to be an American citizen. Even if he is an American citizen, he should dispel any doubts by releasing that information.

[Chris_]

There are plenty of legitimate questions about this guy, and it's not just his birth certificate.  School records, passports, foreign travel... why don't we know more about this guy?

[thundley4]

There are plenty of legitimate questions about this guy, and it's not just his birth certificate.  School records, passports, foreign travel... why don't we know more about this guy?

It almost makes you think that Soros someone spread a lot of money around to hide his past and to keep it hidden.

[TVDOC]

There are plenty of legitimate questions about this guy, and it's not just his birth certificate.  School records, passports, foreign travel... why don't we know more about this guy?

Because nobody (except we, the "extremists") asked until it was too late........

doc

[gurn]

In his Libya speech, The Imam Barack told us he prays he has strength and is making the right decisions.
That's a very unsettling thing to say. He doesn't know if he's right, but does it anyway? If you do not know if it's the right thing to do - don't do it until you do.

That makes me wonder if this guy is even going to run again. The whole birth certificate issue makes me wonder even more. It ain't going away until he puts the matter to rest. But one way to make it fade quickly is to not run in 2012.

Wishful thinking? Maybe. But he certainly is an odd duck. 

[Eupher]

Because nobody (except we, the "extremists") asked until it was too late........

doc

Well, SCOTUS had a chance to address it THREE TIMES to date and FAILED. That intrigues me more than Obama's lies, frankly.

Philip Berg's case, I believe, was the first.

Lots of stuff here.

[Thor]

Well, SCOTUS had a chance to address it THREE TIMES to date and FAILED. That intrigues me more than Obama's lies, frankly.

Philip Berg's case, I believe, was the first.

Lots of stuff here.

It's up again in front of SCOTUS. I posted a thread about that a few weeks ago.

We have:

A.) The Birth Certificate Issue

B.) School in Jakarta(?)  (Where he was required to be a citizen of that nation to attend school)

C.) Multiple Social Security numbers

D.) Non-disclosure of his college transcripts

and Lord knows what else is lurking in the shadows.

[Chris_]

From what I have heard, he traveled to Indonesia in the early 80's while there were sanctions against US citizens visiting or conducting business there.  There are questions about how he was able to leave the country and enter Indonesia.  From what I have heard, he was using HIS Indonesian-citizenship passport to do so.

[thundley4]

From what I have heard, he traveled to Indonesia in the early 80's while there were sanctions against US citizens visiting or conducting business there.  There are questions about how he was able to leave the country and enter Indonesia.  From what I have heard, he was using HIS Indonesian-citizenship passport to do so.

Indonesia doesn't allow dual citizenship, do they? 

[gurn]

Indonesia doesn't allow dual citizenship, do they? 

Today, it's difficult for a foreigner to be granted citizenship in an ASEAN country.
I know something about that. But I don't know if he was a citizen or just a resident.
Even if he was a citizen, I'm not sure a dual citizen is disqualified from being a US President.
For example, Israel considers some Americans to be citizens of Israel automatically.
I'm not sure a President would be required to renounce that. I've never looked at it.   

OTOH, a person born outside the US or it's possessions, territories, would be disqualified.
That's how I read 'Natural born'.

I know a guy who went to HS with the Imam Barack. His Hawaii history
is documented after Kindergarten.  But up to that time, it's very mysterious.

His Mom supposedly lived in Pakistan.

WTF????

The MSM has tried to bury this stuff. But with Trump wading
into it. Maybe something will break. Trump acts like he knows
Something. I dunno if he does or not.

Also, because his father was a Muslim, he was born a Muslim.
I've had Muslims tell me that.
life are very unclear.   

[Boudicca]

The whole birth certificate thing really pisses me off.  My son enrolled in our local community college early this month and was required to produce HIS birth certificiate.  But we're all supposed to accept the word of Dingy Hairy and Nancy the Louse that Barack is a natural born US citizen.
He's a natural born something, all right, but not US citizen.

[thundley4]

Dual Nationality: Indonesian law does not recognize dual nationality for adults over 18 years of age. Because of this law, U.S. citizens who are also documented as Indonesian nationals may experience difficulties with immigration formalities in Indonesia. Holding dual citizenship may also hamper the U.S. Embassy's ability to provide consular protection to dual national U.S. citizens. In addition to being subject to all Indonesian laws affecting U.S. citizens, dual nationals may also be subject to other laws that impose special obligations on Indonesian citizens. In July 2006, the Indonesian Parliament passed new legislation allowing children under age 18 to hold foreign as well as Indonesian citizenship. Parents whose children hold both Indonesian and U.S. citizenship continue to experience difficulties with entry and exit immigration procedures.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_2052.html

Apparently they didn't allow dual citizenship even for minors back then.

[gurn]

I'd be surprised if he had been an Indonesian citizen. Very unlikely.

[gurn]

The Rocky Mountain News reported - then retracted - that Obama was a dual citizen of the US and Kenya.

This article at Answers.com is wrong.

Can A President Have Dual Citizenship?

It is wrong because the fact that someone is born in the US does not disqualify that person from
having dual citizenship. Israel allows for persons born in the US to be citizens of Israel as well.
I think other countries do also. For example, the current King of Thailand was born in Massachusetts.  

I know a man born in New Mexico whose parents were visiting from Germany. He is a dual citizen of
the US and Germany.

But can a dual citizen be President? The Constitution does not specifically forbid it.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Now, if Obama were born outside the US, he would not be eligible for President. In fact, he would not even be a lawful permanent resident
(green card holder). But if he were born in Hawaii & was also a citizen of another country, I don't see where that is disallowed.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

hotair.com, a respectable conservative site I read all day every day, wishes this would go away. I still love them.

I was NOT a birther when this started. In fact I was embarrassed by the entire controversy and I'm sure if you scan CC threads from just after the election you can find my posts to that effect but Obama and his defenders have made me a birther by having no answer except to scream "RACIST!"

This is how tedious this controversy has become.

From the supposed "factcheck" site:

Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

    Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

You got that?

Annoying a state official is proof that what you're annoying her about is all in your imagination.

And then we don't have the long-form, just her word that she has seen the long-form...which they won't release.

Why?

hackcheck.org continues:

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

[emphasis mine]

So, you see, its the STATE'S refusal to answer numerous questions or say why you refuse to answer that proves just how loony the birthers have become.

My suggestion as to how one should respond when this tripe is offered as a dismissal: So what was the name of the doctor that delivered Obama?

hackcheck also desperately misrepresents Corsi's position on the short-form cert. I can hear Corsi on the radio every other day as he talks to one of the local hosts. What hackchecck claims he disputes I have never heard him say.
 
Case in point: the short-form lists father's race as "African" and you can see it in the photo provided at the linked article. Hawaii did not count "African" as a race. The choices were "negro" or "colored" and no birth certificate from that era says otherwise.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[gurn]

hotair.com, a respectable conservative site I read all day every day, wishes this would go away. I still love them."

I'm a Trump supporter. I'm worried he's staking everything on this. And it would show bad judgment
if he got it wrong. So I'm hoping he knows something we don't. Like you, I wasn't a Birther before either.

When Trump waded in & Gov. Abercrombie waded in & waded right back out, that got me interested.  

O'Reilly chided Trump on that on his March 30, 2011 episode. Trump's coming back the 31st to talk about China, trade (I hope).
This whole controversy has drowned out the important part of his message.

SGT Snuggle Bunny:

"I was NOT a birther when this started. In fact I was embarrassed by the entire controversy and I'm sure if you scan CC threads from just after the election you can find my posts to that effect but Obama and his defenders have made me a birther by having no answer except to scream "RACIST!"

This is how tedious this controversy has become.

From the supposed "factcheck" site:

Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."....
 
Case in point: the short-form lists father's race as "African" and you can see it in the photo provided at the linked article. Hawaii did not count "African" as a race. The choices were "negro" or "colored" and no birth certificate from that era says otherwise.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Hmmmm.  

"Well today, Stanley had a baby."

About the obstetrician who purportedly delivered him, his name was Rodney West.
He's dead. But a woman named Barbara Nelson claimed to remember a dinner
conversation with him the week Obama was born. She claimed this in January, 2009.
That was 47 1/2 years after the conversation.

The conversation is here. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Assign whatever credibility you will to it. Basically it comes down to,

"Well today, Stanley had a baby."

(I would C&P it. But for some reason, that's disabled.)

Here's a more complete version of the official story.

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/more-testimony-obama-was-born-in-k/

Photo of her here.

http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/res10o2yg/obama/Teacher%20from%20Kenmore%20recalls%20Obama%20was%20a%20focused%20student%20%20Don%27t%20Miss%20%20The%20Buffalo%20News.htm

She doesn't look old enough to be having drinks with an obstetrician in 1961. She was Obama's English teacher in HS.

***
Snopes, The Smoking Gun, Factcheck.org have all become (or always were),
partisan outlets for Obama's campaign committee.
***

Obama was born a Muslim though. Ask any Muslim about it. If you're born to a Muslim father, you're a Muslim.
That's probably not on his birth certificate (assuming there is one).

Concerning the newspaper announcements, yeah they are evidence.
They're not persuasive evidence. But they're worth considering,
especially if they were actually generated by the hospital.

But why the cover-up?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Just IMHO, I would expect he does have a Hawaii birth cert, and it isn't the PLACE of birth that he wants to keep secret, it's something else, like claiming his father was an Arab, native Hawaiian, or something else other than 'Black,' and/or declaring religion as 'Muslim.'

As for the transcripts, the apparent reason would be that his actual crappy grades make him look like a Harvard affirmative action admittee rather than a soopergenius, which is about as well-kept a secret as American military SOF operators on the ground in Libya for all of March 2011 anyway...especially with Ayers more-or-less outing him on the ghostwritten "Autobiography" recently.

It would be pretty damned funny to find out Sarah Palin had a higher GPA, though.

[gurn]

Was Obama born or raised a Muslim?

The answer to both is - yes.

I can't fault a kid for doing what his parents tell him or for attending the school they send him to.
But he's an adult now. And he's been lying to us about his Muslim childhood.

http://www.danielpipes.org/5286/was-barack-obama-a-muslim

My father was from Kenya, and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn't practice Islam. Truth is he wasn't very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I've always been a Christian. The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country. But I've never practiced Islam. … For a while, I lived in Indonesia because my mother was teaching there. And that's a Muslim country. And I went to school. But I didn't practice. But what I do think it does is it gives me insight into how these folks think, and part of how I think we can create a better relationship with the Middle East and that would help make us safer is if we can understand how they think about issues."

He attended a public school and a Catholic School in Indonesia. The Catholic School records showed him as a Muslim.
It's not clear what the public school records showed. But why would it be any different?

If he were listed as a Muslim at the Public School (and he had to be listed as some religion),
he would have been required to attend Islamic Studies classes.

His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class.

The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. "We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Zulfin Adi. … Obama's younger sister, Maya Soetoro, said in a statement released by the campaign that the family attended the mosque only "for big communal events," not every Friday.

Unknown facts about Obama? He was born a Muslim. He was raised a Muslim until he returned to Hawaii.

Interesting Question: Is his sister, Maya (daughter of Lolo Soetero), a Muslim?

Update to Pipes' article & resply to MM's criticism of the article.

He converted to Christianity after being a Muslim, therefore, Obama is a Muslim apostate. And Islamic scriptures
mandate a punishment for Muslims who convert to other religions.

"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17

"Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him" Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57

[gurn]

Businessman and possible 2012 GOP contender Herman Cain says he understands why people want President Obama to bring out some proof of his eligibility to occupy the Oval Office.

He said in an interview with Shark-Tank.net he respects people who believe Obama "should prove he was born in the United States of America."



Read more: Another presidential hopeful wants Obama eligibility proof http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=282117#ixzz1ILP69t1d

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=282117