Debate: Women's dress

[Gina]

The news reporter got me thinking about this old debate topic.




Do you feel that a woman's attire can partially be blamed on her being sexually assaulted?  Can she be partially to blame if she dresses risque?

[TVDOC]

I'm going to answer your question this way.......when my wife and I lived in Saudi Arabia for two years, when she went out shopping, she wore the customary garb of a Saudi woman, she was also escorted by a male as is the custom in that country.....

The Saudis and Islam are what they are, and "when in Rome" so to speak......are we not the ones that are first to say that when you come to America, you are welcome, but please acclimate to our society......

IMHO......an American female journalist dressed  in the manner that the CBS reporter was, going into a mob of Islamic men during a semi-violent protest is not only stupid on her part but blatantly arrogant.......I won't say that she had it coming, because no woman deserves to be sexually assaulted, but would you strip naked and waltz into a biker bar in the middle of nowhere at midnight??  Pretty much the same principle......

doc

[DumbAss Tanker]

'Blame' for being raped, no; 'blame' for being too damned stupid not to go into a bear cage looking and smelling like a giant pork chop, yes.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Dressing sexy makes you responsible for being ogled but perpetrators are solely responsible for their acts of violence.

[DLR Pyro]

People need to be responsible for their own actions, regardless of what visual stimulations may be present in the area.

[Gina]

'Blame' for being raped, no; 'blame' for being too damned stupid not to go into a bear cage looking and smelling like a giant pork chop, yes.

This is how I feel.  I love this place .  Every other forum I have ever been on, it's never the victim's actions that took part in a crime.  NEVER.

[ConservativeMobster]

Add in the mob mentality and you set yourself up for some ugly.  No, rape victims don't deserve what they receive at the hands of rapists but use some common sense.

[IassaFTots]

Add in the mob mentality and you set yourself up for some ugly.  No, rape victims don't deserve what they receive at the hands of rapists but use some common sense.

Agreed.  To be dressed as she was, in the place she was in, was not a good choice.  It was a really bad choice.  I am sorry that she had to endure what she did, but it shouldn't be a complete shock.  Even dressed in a full burka, being an American woman in that mob situation is still an unsafe venture.   

[Eupher]

Especially concur with doc's observation that the reporter's actions were blatantly arrogant.

This woman apparently is accustomed to working in foreign cultures, so why she didn't use a whit of common sense and dress for the occasion is thoughtless, stupid, and ultimately, violent.

[Boudicca]

'Blame' for being raped, no; 'blame' for being too damned stupid not to go into a bear cage looking and smelling like a giant pork chop, yes.

Yeah, that.

[JohnnyReb]

'Blame' for being raped, no; 'blame' for being too damned stupid not to go into a bear cage looking and smelling like a giant pork chop, yes.

Nice analogy.

You bait the hook and sooner or later you're going to get a bite.

[debk]

Rape is about control...not about sex.

However.

Whether a woman is a hooker on a corner in a bad area of town, or a nun in a habit....in the same area....they are putting themselves in a situation - a known "dangerous" area - where they could be harmed, regardless of how they are dressed. Though they are in no way responsible for being raped....if they hadn't been in that specific area...they wouldn't have been raped, at least not there. They put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation, and they are responsible for doing so.

This is no different from a missionary going into an area extremely dangerous to anyone not of the "local religion", just because the missionary feels the "call to convert natives to Christianity". The missionary is captured, tortured, and/or raped, and Special Ops guys are sent to rescue them, before the missionary is murdered thus severely endangering rescuers too...because the people "back home", wherever home is, want their Missionary loved one back.

Or a journalist, going into a dangerous situation all because of the "story".

Regardless of why an individual goes into a dangerous situation, they must realize that they elected to do so...and also realize that bad things can happen, no matter how good the intention.

If an individual persists in doing so....they should at the very least, TRY to minimize their presence by looking as inconspicuous as possible.

To not do so....is just stupid.

[longview]

'Blame' for being raped, no; 'blame' for being too damned stupid not to go into a bear cage looking and smelling like a giant pork chop, yes.

Agreed.

[Boudicca]

Rape is about control...not about sex.

However.

Whether a woman is a hooker on a corner in a bad area of town, or a nun in a habit....in the same area....they are putting themselves in a situation - a known "dangerous" area - where they could be harmed, regardless of how they are dressed. Though they are in no way responsible for being raped....if they hadn't been in that specific area...they wouldn't have been raped, at least not there. They put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation, and they are responsible for doing so.

This is no different from a missionary going into an area extremely dangerous to anyone not of the "local religion", just because the missionary feels the "call to convert natives to Christianity". The missionary is captured, tortured, and/or raped, and Special Ops guys are sent to rescue them, before the missionary is murdered thus severely endangering rescuers too...because the people "back home", wherever home is, want their Missionary loved one back.

Or a journalist, going into a dangerous situation all because of the "story".

Regardless of why an individual goes into a dangerous situation, they must realize that they elected to do so...and also realize that bad things can happen, no matter how good the intention.

If an individual persists in doing so....they should at the very least, TRY to minimize their presence by looking as inconspicuous as possible.

To not do so....is just stupid.

Wise as always, deb.  I certainly would never want to go to the ME for any reason.  I always feel so damn sorry for our servicewomen who have no choice but to brave the attitudes over there.

[Ballygrl]

My Father was pretty old fashioned and would say things like "why would a man buy the cow if he can get the milk for free" he also said "don't advertise something you're not going to give away". Do I think men rape because of a way a woman dresses? no, but I think men harass women because of the way they dress. She's in a Muslim Country, and though Egypt can be considered slightly westernized compared to other Muslim Nations, they recommend that tourists dress conservatively and cleavage isn't conservative there, so she didn't help herself in that situation.

[BowTied]

Let's take the rape part of the equation out and replace it with "being treated like a slut by a guy." Rape isn't about sex, it's control, domination, and rage. In more run-of-the-mill exchanges between men and women, a woman's choice of attire says either, "I respect myself and you'd damn well better treat me similiarly!" or "I totally disrespect myself, so treat me like dirt."

[DumbAss Tanker]

Rape isn't about sex, it's control, domination, and rage.

That's certainly what an American social worker or psychologist would tell you, because it's their politically-correct received doctrine, but human sexuality is a lot more complicated than that, and it only really applies to properly-socialized mainstream westerners who don't think they can just take whatever they want from whoever has it. 

In a lot of the world, and the seamier, less-functional parts even of ours, people just don't really think that way.

[Freeper]

The news reporter got me thinking about this old debate topic.




Do you feel that a woman's attire can partially be blamed on her being sexually assaulted?  Can she be partially to blame if she dresses risque?

I won't say that dressing slutty is issuing an invitation to get raped, however if you dress that way, it could get the attention of the scumbag who wants to rape someone. Just like if you are in a bad neighborhood and you pull out your wallet, and start counting hundred dollar bills, you just might get a visit from the local mugger.

[Gina]

I won't say that dressing slutty is issuing an invitation to get raped, however if you dress that way, it could get the attention of the scumbag who wants to rape someone. Just like if you are in a bad neighborhood and you pull out your wallet, and start counting hundred dollar bills, you just might get a visit from the local mugger.

totally agree so I never understand why women bring that it doesn't matter what a woman wears argument

[redwhit]

totally agree so I never understand why women bring that it doesn't matter what a woman wears argument

It's just a matter of prudence.  Hell, as a full grown male in decent shape there are certain areas I just don't want to be - and there are even more areas I don't want to be if I'm dressed affluently and drippin' bling.

Rape really is a horrible violation, there's no question about that.  In terms of absolving the victim of blame, I think there's a certain amount of marxist philosophy of oppressor/oppressed going on and because women have always been the oppressed class they can never be at fault.  In fact, the only reason she was dressing in such a manner would be to self-actualize herself and celebrate her own control of her body and sexuality which has been under man's control since, well, forever.  The rape, in this light, would be seen as punishment and fostering control through fear.

And the fact that I could just rattle that ridiculous claptrap off without even needing to think is proof positive that I have been in academia too damn long.   

[Celtic Rose]

The fault for rape, as with any violent, unprovoked crime, lies solely with the perpetrator.  That said, as others have mentioned, common sense should dictate a woman's clothing choices.  In middle eastern countries, men have been taught that it is a woman's responsibility to stay covered so as to not tempt men, and their level of respect for women tends to be fairly low, so walking into a crowd of angry Muslim men in what they consider provocative clothing is an idiotic move.

[vesta111]

It's just a matter of prudence.  Hell, as a full grown male in decent shape there are certain areas I just don't want to be - and there are even more areas I don't want to be if I'm dressed affluently and drippin' bling.

Rape really is a horrible violation, there's no question about that.  In terms of absolving the victim of blame, I think there's a certain amount of marxist philosophy of oppressor/oppressed going on and because women have always been the oppressed class they can never be at fault.  In fact, the only reason she was dressing in such a manner would be to self-actualize herself and celebrate her own control of her body and sexuality which has been under man's control since, well, forever.  The rape, in this light, would be seen as punishment and fostering control through fear.

And the fact that I could just rattle that ridiculous claptrap off without even needing to think is proof positive that I have been in academia too damn long.   

OH yes all so true, woman dress to be NOTICED, spend a fortune to get noticed, hair, makeup, tanning booths etc.

Now my problem has all ways been with the mothers that buy revealing clothes for their daughters.  It all started one day when---

I was at a kids clothing store at the mall and this adorable child of 5-6 years old in front of me picked up a shirt showed it to her parent and asked her Mom it the shirt made her look sexy. Darn fortunate for me I have all my teeth as if I had dentures they would have been spit on the floor.

 WTF what are parents doing setting their daughters up for some pervert to snatch them???

As the weather warms up, and you are at a mall just check out the little girls who have parents dress them up to look sexy, little hookers. Then check out the mothers that are mostly fat and sloppy looking.  They may be living vicariously through their daughter.

Alot of  head games going on here with woman, we learn to controll men with the ability to arouse them BUT, this brings in the men that cannot controll themselves and becomes a very dangerious game.

[catsmtrods]

OH yes all so true, woman dress to be NOTICED, spend a fortune to get noticed, hair, makeup, tanning booths etc.

Now my problem has all ways been with the mothers that buy revealing clothes for their daughters.  It all started one day when---

I was at a kids clothing store at the mall and this adorable child of 5-6 years old in front of me picked up a shirt showed it to her parent and asked her Mom it the shirt made her look sexy. Darn fortunate for me I have all my teeth as if I had dentures they would have been spit on the floor.

 WTF what are parents doing setting their daughters up for some pervert to snatch them???

As the weather warms up, and you are at a mall just check out the little girls who have parents dress them up to look sexy, little hookers. Then check out the mothers that are mostly fat and sloppy looking.  They may be living vicariously through their daughter.

Alot of  head games going on here with woman, we learn to controll men with the ability to arouse them BUT, this brings in the men that cannot controll themselves and becomes a very dangerious game.

I see it a lot! Dead on!

[mamacags]

You don't go into a forest wearing a meat suit and expect bears not to attack you.

You don't go into a biker bar wearing a I <3 Snitches tshirt.

You don't go to an Israeli checkpoint with a vest filled with road flares on it.

You don't go to WVU with a Penn State shirt on.

You don't go to a Little Wayne concert with a KKK shirt on.

You don't go into a sexually charged situation with almost no clothes on and expect to be viewed as a nun.

No one deserves to be raped, ever.  Some women/girls purposely put themselves into situations they shouldn't.  I have even done this myself.  When wearing wolf lure you should expect wolves.

[debk]

WTF what are parents doing setting their daughters up for some pervert to snatch them???

As the weather warms up, and you are at a mall just check out the little girls who have parents dress them up to look sexy, little hookers. Then check out the mothers that are mostly fat and sloppy looking.  They may be living vicariously through their daughter.

Abercrombie has been in the news lately for their new "push up" bikini top ...FOR LITTLE GIRLS!!!

They were advertising the top as "push up", but after the top being discussed on the morning talk shows show much, Abercrombie changed it to "padded".

Why would a 7 or 8 yr old little girl need or want a "push up" bra top? How many little girls that age even have anything to push up? Heck, neither I nor my daughter had anything to push up at 17 let alone at 7!! We survived.

I saw an shoe advertisement in our local paper recently for little girls' shoes. The shoes had a little spike heel....again for a 5 or 6 yr old. What's wrong with Mary Jane's? I wore them at that age, so did my daughter...they are what little girls are supposed to wear!

And adults wonder why girls have such poor body image and self image at 13.