primitive goes back to rustic life-style

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x4247

Oh my.

The campfire was lit a month ago, but the primitive's been good about updating.

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 07:10 AM
Original message
 
Today I move from the city to the country... 

Over the summer, I bought a 7 acre property, and have been building an off-grid farm. Today is moving day. The property still needs a great deal of work, and the first couple months are going to be more like camping, but it's the realization of a goal I've had since the 80's. So despite the adversity, I'm pretty excited at the prospect. I'll keep DU posted on how things go.

alphafemale  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Do you have a well and septic at least. 

By off grid you mean wind or solar power?

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
6. I'll have a well at some point, but at this point I'm using water from my neighbor's well stored in a holding tank. In lieu of septic, I'm using dry compost.

I've got a small solar array at this point, which I'm going to expand to include more solar, wind, and power from a steam turbine I'm building.

alphafemale  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
 
20. Did something like that for awhile.

Here's an off the grid tip.

We used 5 gallon water jugs but you can improvise.

Spray paint them black. Put where they get sun most of day. Voila!!! Solar water heater.

Especially in FL this might work all year for giving you hot water.

dixiegrrrrl  (1000+ posts)      Sun Dec-26-10 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. Congratulations!!!! A 20 year dream realized. Wow.

I hope it goes wonderful for you.

I guarantee it will be memorable, adventurous, unpredictable, marvelous, and rewarding.

Also maybe cold????? Don't know where you are, but there is bound to be winter around there somewhere.

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
7. thanks, dixiegrrrrl!   

I think you're correct in that it will be adventurous and memorable, etc.

I'm down here in Florida, so it'll be cold at time, but workable.

WhiteTara  (1000+ posts)       Sun Dec-26-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message

5. Country life is beautiful and filled with the hardest work possible. You're going to love it!

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
 
10. Yep, that's the truth... 

I grew up part-time on a farm in Nebraska, and always loved being out away from the city. I've been working this property since July, and you're right, the work is very hard, but very, very rewarding.

enough  (1000+ posts)      Sun Dec-26-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
 
11. What part of the country are you moving to?

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
 
12. I'm in Florida...so I'm only moving a few miles from where I'm at now.

cleanhippie  (1000+ posts)      Sun Dec-26-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
 
14. Please, please, please continue to post on this.

Would love to know what you have done and what you plan to do. This is also a plan I am actively working on.

newfie11 (1000+ posts)      Mon Dec-27-10 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
 
23. Congratulations!!

We moved to the country 40 years ago. I was told then to give it a year to adjust. 40 years and 4 farms later we are still in the country. Due to our age we sold our place in the SD Black Hills that was 40 miles from town and bought this farm in Nebraska panhandle. Now 6 miles from town, best of both worlds.You will not regret it.

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Wed Jan-12-11 07:05 AM
Response to Original message

38. Update: Jan, 12, 2011 

It has been nearly two weeks since I moved out here full time. The first night was very mild. Then the weather set in. Two nice days withstanding, it has been either cold or wet. The inclement weather has slowed the forward motion, but still I'm making progress. I've got the 1800 watt generator running nearly 24/7 to keep the batteries charged up. My big development laptop really sucks down the watts, and the long distance wireless power supply fails on an inverter. Hence, until I can produce at least 1800 watts of consistent household-grade current, the generator is a annoying necessity. It's good motivation to get the wattage up on my hybrid array. For right now, however, the array is lower on the priority list. With the cold and rainy weather, much of the time is spent stowing the items from my townhouse, now under the cover of a various system of tarps, and upgrading the chicken coop to protect them from the weather.

It's amazing to start to really itemize the amount of power you require daily to survive. Between gas for the generator, propane for the stove, 'fridge and space heater, kerosene for the coop heater, I'm definitely not self-sustaining and will need to produce a great deal more power. Power and water are the two main obstacles to overcome as quickly as possible. Once I've got the camp able to withstand a heavy winter storm (for down here, at least), I need to turn my attention to beefing up the hybrid array and building my cistern.

As expected, it's hard living and a great deal of work. Who says adventure is dead?

Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts)      Tue Jan-18-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
 
41. Space heater? HAven't you got any wood?

You shouldn't be burning through that much propane on a stove either but you could conceivably kill two birds with one stone by getting a wood/pellet/corn stove.

I suggest working on insulating the place and getting some thick blankets. Space heaters are very expensive to operate. What part of florida are you in anyway? It can't be that bad

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jan-22-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
 
44. Yeah, that's the goal, long term. Right now, I'm in a 30' Coachman that is acting as temporary lodgings until I can finish the house, etc. Ultimately, I'll be using thermal mass to maintain a less flexible temperature in the house. For now, it's just extreme camping.

I do have a fire pit as well, but when these winter storms blow through they issue fire warnings, so I'm unable to have a fire on the cold nights.

creeker (135 posts)      Fri Jan-21-11 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
 
43. I wish you the best

But you need much more land (many acres)or maybe more to pay for the technology. have you a creek or stream? if so consider energy from it---------

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jan-22-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
 
46. no creek or a stream, but lots of sun and some decent wind 

fortunately, the money for the technology isn't coming from working the land. I'm a software engineer, and that's what is funding the project. Appreciate the well wishes!

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jan-22-11 03:52 PM
Response to Original message

47. Update: Jan 22, 2011
 
There's another nor'wester blowing in today. I had some work to do for a client this morning, then went out an picked up two 8 foot gates to fill their designated place in the gate, in my on-going effort to keep the cows out of the site. After that, I spent the afternoon battening down the hatches and preparing for another night in the 20's. It's been a helluva winter.

I've made some progress on the fire pit and the chicken coop, and am only days away from switching to using the hybrid array instead of the generator. I'm going to bring in a 5,000 watt industrial grade inverter. No more kidding around. I've got to get the wind turbine up (I'd be cranking in the watts today!), and I've got another small solar array to add to the mix. It'll give me enough power to run the coop and my lights and computers, but I'll still have to fire up the generator occasionally to top them off until I can get more wattage in the array. My initial target is 2,000 watts of wind and solar. If I'm able to get the steam turbine working, I won't have to use the generator at all. so that's also a priority. Work comes first though, so the progress is stifled somewhat.

In any case, I'm adapting, and working into a routine. That's a start.

[Ballygrl]

How is he going to use air conditioning in the summer? It gets really hot in Florida.

[BlueStateSaint]

How is he going to use air conditioning in the summer? It gets really hot in Florida.

That solar stuff, or wind power.

[Freeper]

Wind powered AC



 

[Ballygrl]

[JohnnyReb]

Do pray tell what is going to fire the boiler for that wonderful steam turbin......and 2,000 watts will hardly run a refridgerator....even the Obama green ones.

DUmmie will soon move back to town if he can afford too.

[Vagabond]

It can be done.  Les "Survivorman" Stroud built a house in Canada that is mostly self sufficient, but he conceded how hard making a modern house completely self sufficient really is.

[Celtic Rose]

Honestly, I would love to be able to live out in the country in a mostly self sufficient house on a bunch of land, so I wish him luck.  Reading through his posts though, I get the feeling that he should have done a lot more prep work before moving out there. 

[JohnnyReb]

You can live in the country and be self sufficient like this DUmmie wants too as long as two things hold out...your health and/or your money.

Come up lacking in either one of those and you will no longer be self sufficient. 

[IassaFTots]

It can be done.  Les "Survivorman" Stroud built a house in Canada that is mostly self sufficient, but he conceded how hard making a modern house completely self sufficient really is.

I saw that.  I was hoping that he would do a follow up show, a few years out.  

[MrsSmith]

You know, this type of life worked for our ancestors because they didn't have computers, TVs, refrigerators, gas or electric stoves, clothes washers and dryers, dishwashers, microwaves, etc. etc. 

I wouldn't mind giving up a lot of that stuff, but I think I'd really prefer to build somewhere with access to natural gas, hopefully from my own land.   

[DumbAss Tanker]

creeker (135 posts)      Fri Jan-21-11 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
 
43. I wish you the best

But you need much more land (many acres)or maybe more to pay for the technology. have you a creek or stream? if so consider energy from it---------

Yeah, good luck getting the 30' head you need to get any usable power out of THAT in FL!

 

[BlueStateSaint]

It can be done.  Les "Survivorman" Stroud built a house in Canada that is mostly self sufficient, but he conceded how hard making a modern house completely self sufficient really is.

I've got one of his books up next on my list--right after Cory Lundin's.

[DumbAss Tanker]

It can be done.  Les "Survivorman" Stroud built a house in Canada that is mostly self sufficient, but he conceded how hard making a modern house completely self sufficient really is.

Yeah..."It can be done" IF you have a Bob Vila-level pile of cash to invest in it.  I saw part of Les's series on that house, he poured some big money into it.

It's of course also possible to do it on very modest means, but really that's mostly going to work if you are a heavy-duty tinkerer with some serious electromechanical skillz and don't need to spend 80% of your waking hours earning a living, and you are willing to take it in steps instead of trying to go cold-turkey off the grid in one fell swoop.

[JohnnyReb]

Yeah, good luck getting the 30' head you need to get any usable power out of THAT in FL!

 

I reworked an old pond for a fellow once...then graded for an overshot water wheel and mill house. The water wheel was 25' in diameter and an engineer calculated that with a full flow from a 12" inch pipe and at 5 rpm's that it should furnish 90 horse power. You could do well on that much horse power.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I reworked an old pond for a fellow once...then graded for an overshot water wheel and mill house. The water wheel was 25' in diameter and an engineer calculated that with a full flow from a 12" inch pipe and at 5 rpm's that it should furnish 90 horse power. You could do well on that much horse power.

Absolutely, but I don't think there are many places in Florida where you could get a 5' drop on seven acres, let alone that kind (Which would be super for going total micro-hydro).  There is a pretty good DOE pub on the web that runs down the throughput force and quantities you need per KW.  I've got the drop, but not a sufficiently reliable year-round water source to do it.

[JohnnyReb]

Absolutely, but I don't think there are many places in Florida where you could get a 5' drop on seven acres, let alone that kind (Which would be super for going total micro-hydro).  There is a pretty good DOE pub on the web that runs down the throughput force and quantities you need per KW.  I've got the drop, but not a sufficiently reliable year-round water source to do it.

Well, if you happened to have one of those "large" springs on your place, say like Troy Springs or Manatee Springs, you could do fine with only a couple of feet drop. The large volume flow in either of those two could be used to run one of those floating water wheels like those used in the low country of S.C. in the 1700's. It looked a lot like a Mississippi paddle boat wheel.

With a little forethought and some modern engineering, either of those 2 springs could pull a heck of a load.


 

[Tucker]

This little humorous tale comes to mind.

http://www.homebuilt.org/cmdrdata/jokes/04/0171.html

[AllosaursRus]

If he plans on usin' solar power for his turbine, I would recommend he looks up old volumes of "The Mother Earth News". back in the 80's they had plans for a 10' x 10' mirror array on a gimbal frame that tracked the sun and generated enough steam for a turbine. The hardest part is coming up with a radiator that can withstand the pressure generated when water expands 1800 times it's original volume when heated basically instantaneous!

I built a miniature back in the late eighties that generated around 600° Fahrenheit in direct sunlight focused on a 12" x 12" old boiler radiator from a household heating system! Back then the electronics didn't exist cheap enough to make it feasible, but nowadays I could put them together for under a hundred bucks!

The basic idea is 144 12" mirrors all aimed to one point that tracked the sun in order to keep the "beam" on the radiator.

I built a 4' x 4' with smaller mirrors in order to see if it worked and was surprised at the heat the thing could generate! Mine wasn't big enough to make continual steam, but I could see where it is indeed possible!

Of course you would have to have battery back up and a converter to use AC, but it is possible and I wish him luck.

He's not shootin' very high though. 2000 watts is basically no more than it takes to light 20 1oo watt light bulbs! No fridge will run on that, and without refrigeration he's ****ed!

[DumbAss Tanker]

This little humorous tale comes to mind.

http://www.homebuilt.org/cmdrdata/jokes/04/0171.html

 

Out Floridian DUmmie may have a chapter to add to that one, this time next year!

[JohnnyReb]

If he plans on usin' solar power for his turbine, I would recommend he looks up old volumes of "The Mother Earth News". back in the 80's they had plans for a 10' x 10' mirror array on a gimbal frame that tracked the sun and generated enough steam for a turbine. The hardest part is coming up with a radiator that can withstand the pressure generated when water expands 1800 times it's original volume when heated basically instantaneous!

I built a miniature back in the late eighties that generated around 600° Fahrenheit in direct sunlight focused on a 12" x 12" old boiler radiator from a household heating system! Back then the electronics didn't exist cheap enough to make it feasible, but nowadays I could put them together for under a hundred bucks!

The basic idea is 144 12" mirrors all aimed to one point that tracked the sun in order to keep the "beam" on the radiator.

I built a 4' x 4' with smaller mirrors in order to see if it worked and was surprised at the heat the thing could generate! Mine wasn't big enough to make continual steam, but I could see where it is indeed possible!

Of course you would have to have battery back up and a converter to use AC, but it is possible and I wish him luck.

He's not shootin' very high though. 2000 watts is basically no more than it takes to light 20 1oo watt light bulbs! No fridge will run on that, and without refrigeration he's ****ed!

I remember reading about a mountain top in France with a mirror array that can generate tempertures higher than those found on the surface of the sun.....now we're talking steam production.... at least for a little while...until you vaporize the plumbing.

[DefiantSix]

This part really grossed me out:

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sun Dec-26-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
6. I'll have a well at some point, but at this point I'm using water from my neighbor's well stored in a holding tank. In lieu of septic, I'm using dry compost.

I've got a small solar array at this point, which I'm going to expand to include more solar, wind, and power from a steam turbine I'm building.

That ought to last about 2 weeks, until the county health department catches wind of it, and shuts his hippie ass down cold.

Thank God I ain't gonna live downwind of this asshole.

[GOBUCKS]

So he's using a slit trench in an area where you could reach the water table with a garden spade. Sounds good. The DUmmy may learn about how the hardy pioneers were usually dead by age 40.

Actually, living in a 30-foot Coachman, for a single DUmmy, is pretty good, and his parents seem to be supplying him with unlimited propane and generator gas. I'll bet poor, stupid Beth wishes she had it that good, crammed into a tiny little 40-year-old Airstream with her mother and dogs, out there in the California desert.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I'll bet poor, stupid Beth wishes she had it that good, crammed into a tiny little 40-year-old Airstream with her mother and dogs, out there in the California desert.

I bet her neighbors never realized that stupid came in cans, and such large ones, at that.

[AllosaursRus]

This part really grossed me out:

That ought to last about 2 weeks, until the county health department catches wind of it, and shuts his hippie ass down cold.

Thank God I ain't gonna live downwind of this asshole.

Outhouses are still legal here, as many places up in the hills are so far away from sewer and built on solid rock, there's no way your goin' to put in a septic tank. That bein' said, down in Florida I suspect the "Greeners" had them outlawed in order to try and move the Seminoles out years ago!

I'm not exactly sure what "dry compost" is, but it seems to me to be a contradiction in terms!