DUmmies play Gen'ral on Iraqi situation

[dutch508]

OP: No comment, I suspect a lousy freeper troll.

Barrett808 (1000+ posts)       Mon Mar-31-08 10:08 PM
Original message http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3250921
Gates says Iraqi army appears to have performed well   
 Advertisements [?]Source: AFP


COPENHAGEN (AFP) - Iraqi forces appear to have done "a pretty good job" in an offensive to regain control of Basra from Shiite gangs and militias, US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said Monday.

"We're obviously hopeful that he will achieve most of his objectives, and see calm return as well," Gates told reporters enroute here from Brussels, referring to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

His comments came as radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr called off his fighters, signalling an end to six days of clashes in Basra, Baghdad and other cities that left 461 people dead.

"I think we've all known at some point that the situation in Basra was going to have to be dealt with. It is the economic lifeline of the country. To have it under control of gangs and militias over the long term is not acceptable," Gates said.

"So I think all of us in the government were pleased to see Prime Minister Maliki take this on, take the initiative and go down there himself with Iraqi forces and try to resolve the issue."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080331/pl_afp/denmarkusir...

But, DTEX knows better...

DemoTex  (1000+ posts)       Tue Apr-01-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. The ARVN "performed well" during Lam Son 719, we were told.
 That's why US Army helicopter crews evacuating the ARVN from Laos had to grease the skids of their helicopters. It was every man for himself (ARVNs) as crack NVA forces routed them. So many ARVN troops would grab the skids of a US Army evacuation helicopter that the pilots couldn't get the Hueys to fly until the crew chiefs cracked some knuckles or heads. Thus the solution of greasing the skids.

 
Let's take a look at Lam Son 719, shall we?

Lam Son 719 was a major operation of the Army of the Republic of South Vietnam, ARVN, into Laos from 30 Jan - 24 Mar 1971.   U.S. provided all of the aviation assets for this operation.  A/101 AHB "Comancheros" were one of the aviation units in this operation, along with being the sole 101st Airborne aviation unit supporting the Special Operations Group in I Corp during the month of February 1971.

The objective of Lam Son 719 was to disrupt an ongoing North Vietnamese Army supply buildup at Tchepone, Laos. American Helicopter Units supported and provided all transportation of ARVN troops/supplies into and out of Laos during this operation. The US Helicopter Crewman went against the heaviest anti-aircraft barrage incurred in the War.

The US helicopters that supported Lam Son 719 received fire from rocket propelled grenades, enemy tanks, mortars and small arms fire. The US helicopters were regularly opposed by NVA 23mm, 37mm, and 57mm anti-aircraft weapons along with .51 caliber machine guns arranged to provide mutually supporting anti-aircraft fire. The enemy opposition comprised a permanent logistical force of engineers, transportation, and anti-aircraft troops, together with elements of five divisions that included 12 North Vietnamese infantry regiments, a NVA tank regiment, an NVA artillery regiment, and 19 NVA anti-aircraft battalions.

The South Vietnamese government claimed that 13,341 NVA had been killed against 5,000 ARVN KIA/WIA. American estimates put the ARVN losses at 10,000 which amounted to half of ARVN forces committed to the operation.

The losses to US Helicopter Forces were 65 Helicopter Crewmen KIA, 818 WIA, and 42 MIA.  618 US Helicopters were damaged, including 106 totally destroyed, from 30 Jan - 24 Mar 1971.

Lieutenant Colonel Mike Sloniker (Ret) has spent thousands of hour's researching Lam Son 719 and is the foremost Historian on the subject.

Mike Sloniker writes for this web page:http://www.a101avn.org/LamSon719.html

From everything I have read about Lam Son 719 since July 1971, the massive buildup by the NVA using the 559th Logistics Group that was Headquartered near the Mu Gia Pass was totally not anticipated.   From 08 Feb to 20 Feb, the ARVN attack was really moving along nicely when the four firebases north of Hiway 9 started getting overrun.  This was Firebase 30, 31, Ranger North and Ranger South.

I am of the basic opinion that NO ONE WAS IN CHARGE during LAM SON 719 because the commands were not unified.  Wysong and Turner were with the 48th at Dong Ha in a new avn bn numbered the 223d and in the chaos of trying to get organized and fight an incredible fight in Laos.  Then you had the 14th CAB from Chu Lai, hanging in there pretty good but greatly limited by the performance of the Charlie Models.  Then there is the 101st that had MANY units flying into Laos before LS 719 for CCN-4/77th, 101 Avn Bn and the 158th Avn Bn. So who do we put in as the lead company into LOLO on 03 Mar 71?  The Comancheros of A/101 who have done CCN insertions into LOLO before LS 719?  Hell no!  The leadership put in the 71st AHC who absolutely got their asses shot off.

The whole thing was chaos. The ONLY reason there was ONLY 106 aircraft lost and 65 crewmen killed from 08 Feb 71 to 20 Mar 71 was because of the determination of the teenagers flying the aircraft who decided THEY were not going to let their friends down.  Had NOTHING to do with getting the mission done.  Had everything to do with NOT letting your buddy down.

Mike Sloniker

So, at Lam Son, the problem was in the American Command, not ARVN.

http://vnafmamn.com/lamson_719.html
The operation also carried an important meaning in the Vietnamization program. No American infantry soldier landed feet in the land of Laos, all American advisors attached to the RVN units were ordered to stay in Vietnam. Lam-Son 719 operation began at 7:00am on the 8th of February, as the leading element of the RVN 1st Cavalry with M-41 tanks and M-113 APCs crossed the border into Laos on route 9. This route was narrow and rough terrain slowered the advancing of the RVN forces. Meanwhile, U.S. helicopters of the 223rd and 158th Combat Aviation battalions left Khe Sanh packed with troops from the RVN Airborne, 1st Infantry divisions and the 1st Rangers group. Khe Sanh combat base was used as the forward headquarters of the ARVN I-Corps. The chopters transported RVN troopers to their areas of operations (AO).

No Americans present. EXCEPT int he air as support.

Despite the extremely heavy South Vietnamese casualties by 25 March the ARVN had lost 1.529 killed and 5.483 injured, as well as 96 artillery pieces and 71 tanks destroyed, the communists had suffered a severe blow. Thousands of tons of enemy supplies were destroyed, including 1,500 crew-served heavy weapons, 106 tanks and 76 artillery pieces. Along with that over 4.000 individual weapons were captured, and the ARVN claimed 13,345 enemy dead. The Americans suffered considerable losses as well, including ten OH-6As, eight OH-58s, 53 UH-1Hs, 26 AH-1Gs, three CH-47s and two CH-53s, and another 618 helicopters damaged. The VNAF also lost seven UH-1Hs. Some 219 Americans were killed and 1.149 wounded in support of the operation.

[dutch508]

In the end, Lam Son 719 lasted for 45 days, and the airpower was the only thing that saved the ARVN from a complete defeat in Laos. The North Vietnamese nevertheless did not get off unpunished: their losses were indeed heavy to a degree where their planned invasion of South Vietnam had to be postponned for a full year.

So, the mission took heavy casualties but delayed the invasion of South Vietnam by a year...


In the end we know in hindsight that it wasn't worth it, because the US pulled out and South Vietnam fell, and millions died. Had the US not cut off aid and ran?

Who can tell.

[dutch508]

ARVN Paras

[Airwolf]

Looks like TiT has a little sister.

[TheSarge]

Looks like TiT has a little sister.

Typical DUmmie...doesn't have the sense God gave a private...yet thinks he is an expert on the war.

And shows his stuff by picking out an operation most people had never heard of to prove his point.

[Crazy Horse]

Looks like TiT has a little sister.

Typical DUmmie...doesn't have the sense God gave a private...yet thinks he is an expert on the war.

And shows his stuff by picking out an operation most people had never heard of to prove his point.

That's the idea. Use obscure operations and nobody knows if you're lieing....................we know they are because they lie all the time

[Bondai]

Looks like TiT has a little sister.

Typical DUmmie...doesn't have the sense God gave a private...yet thinks he is an expert on the war.

And shows his stuff by picking out an operation most people had never heard of to prove his point.

What's with the Vietnam service medal photo? Is that his bona fide for being an expert on the war?

[TheSarge]

[What's with the Vietnam service medal photo? Is that his bona fide for being an expert on the war?

That's his "Don't question me I served" award that he uses to fool the DUmmies.

[dutch508]

Oh yes. I included his ribbon as he chose to display it.

Reading into the story, DTEX semi-claims to be one of the 101st AB Div's chopper crews who took part in the operation. Now, he doesn't come out and say so, but implies it. A typical leftist tactic, when confronted about how he had never served 9if such was the case) he can then declare he'd never said it.

[Airwolf]

Looks like TiT has a little sister.

Typical DUmmie...doesn't have the sense God gave a private...yet thinks he is an expert on the war.

And shows his stuff by picking out an operation most people had never heard of to prove his point.

One problem is in the post refering to Lam Son 719 is that my Brother was stationed in Chu Lai with the 176th AHC the year before and I have never heard him say anything good or bad about the ARVN troops. And if the operation had gone like the DUmmie is trying to mis;lead us into believeing it did the I am certain that not only would my Brothers Unit would have had to go in to support the ARVNs but so would the entire Marine Air Wing that was based at Chu Lai  as well.