Karzai calls on U.S. to lighten troop presence

[Wretched Excess]

ok.  the little dude in the fuzzy soda jerk hat is really beginning to get on my nerves.  he seemed to be much more cooperative before the citizen of the world took over foreign policy . . . and war policy . . .

Karzai calls on U.S. to lighten troop presence

KABUL - President Hamid Karzai said Saturday that the United States must reduce the visibility and intensity of its military operations in Afghanistan and end the increased U.S. Special Operations forces night raids that aggravate Afghans and could exacerbate the Taliban insurgency.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Karzai said that he wanted American troops off the roads and out of Afghan homes and that the long-term presence of so many foreign soldiers would only worsen the war. His comments placed him at odds with U.S. commander Gen. David H. Petraeus, who has made capture-and-kill missions a central component of his counterinsurgency strategy, and who claims the 30,000 new troops have made substantial progress in beating back the insurgency.

"The time has come to reduce military operations," Karzai said. "The time has come to reduce the presence of, you know, boots in Afghanistan . . . to reduce the intrusiveness into the daily Afghan life."
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Karzai's comments come as American officials are playing down the importance of July 2011 - the date President Obama set to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan - in favor of a combat mission ending in 2014. The Afghan president has placed himself squarely in favor of a lighter military footprint as the administration reviews the progress of the Afghan war and debate intensifies about the pace of the withdrawal. Karzai says his troops are ready to take more responsibility for their own security.

In an hour-long interview with Post reporters and editors in his office in Kabul, Karzai said he was speaking out not to criticize the United States but in the belief that candor could improve what he called a "grudging" relationship between the countries. He described his own deep skepticism with American policy in Afghanistan - from last year's presidential election, which he said was manipulated by U.S. officials, to his conviction that government corruption has been caused by billions of American dollars funneled to unaccountable contractors. And he said Afghans have lost patience with the presence of American soldiers in their homes and armored vehicles on their roads.

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[true_blood]

Hey Karzai,....take a walk you corrupt little caveman. That's all you are. A corrupt little caveman.
I hope the red diaper doper baby in the White Mosque doesn't go along with your thinking.

[Wretched Excess]

Hey Karzai,....take a walk you corrupt little caveman. That's all you are. A corrupt little caveman.
I hope the red diaper doper baby in the White Mosque doesn't go along with your thinking.

he would jump in bed with the taliban in a heartbeat if he was sure that they wouldn't saw his head off and send it to his family.

[true_blood]

he would jump in bed with the taliban in a heartbeat if he was sure that they wouldn't saw his head off and send it to his family.

Exactly. And exactly why he is suggesting what he is. It's sickening.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Well, not that the answer really matters, but the real question here is whether (1) he really means it, or (2) he's just saying this for public consumption to make nice with the Taliban, since he knows Barry is baling on him in eight short months regardless of Petraeus's strategy, and Karzai knows he needs to build bridges or be hanged after a cursory Sharia trial about one or two years from now? 

[Wretched Excess]

Well, not that the answer really matters, but the real question here is whether (1) he really means it, or (2) he's just saying this for public consumption to make nice with the Taliban, since he knows Barry is baling on him in eight short months regardless of Petraeus's strategy, and Karzai knows he needs to build bridges or be hanged after a cursory Sharia trial about one or two years from now? 

really mixed signals about the july of 2011 thing over the weekend.  obama is sending his senior military advisers out to talk about "2012 and beyond".  maybe it's just their inability to get out an unmuddled message, but they seem to be tied up in knots over their afghanistan policy.

[Allentownjake]

Well, not that the answer really matters, but the real question here is whether (1) he really means it, or (2) he's just saying this for public consumption to make nice with the Taliban, since he knows Barry is baling on him in eight short months regardless of Petraeus's strategy, and Karzai knows he needs to build bridges or be hanged after a cursory Sharia trial about one or two years from now? 

You can't win a war in Afghanistan or occupy it without disarming the entire population.

Given that the entire place is essential a munitions dump and a network of guerilla networks left over from the Soviet occupation and subsequent civil war, that proposition is rather expensive.

Besides, Al Qaueda moved on years ago.

[TheSarge]

This is how you can tell that someone has forgotten to make sure he takes his meds for depression.

[TheSarge]

You can't win a war in Afghanistan or occupy it without disarming the entire population.

*cough* bullshit *cough*

Given that the entire place is essential a munitions dump and a network of guerilla networks left over from the Soviet occupation and subsequent civil war, that proposition is rather expensive.

Ummm no it's not.  Very little is left over from the Soviets.  And what is here is so rusted and or decayed that it's unserviceable.

The problem now stems from the weapons that are smuggled in to the Taliban and yes...al-Qaeda that are here...from Iran and Pakistan.  There are no "guerilla networks" left over from the 80's.  Most of the Mujahadeen are now legitimate folks working WITH us to rid their country of the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

The "proposition" as you so glibly refer to is is far cheaper than what it will cost the world if we don't fix this place properly before we all leave.

Besides, Al Qaueda moved on years ago.

Really?  That's news to those of us that are actually HERE!
 

  Jackass.

[Allentownjake]

Well, I'm not a caricature so define "fix the place"

The Mujadeen included not just the Northern Alliance which turned into Heroin smugglers but also what later developed into Al Quaeda and the Taliban.  It is in fact where our enemy got his start.

I'd rather not leave the place as a chaos filled hole in the world where smugglers and terrorist hang out so I would be fully supportive of fixing it, given an actual plan with a reasonable chance of success "fix the place"

[TheSarge]

Well, I'm not a caricature so define "fix the place"

No but you ARE obtuse.

We need to leave Afghanistan stable enough to fend for itself so there won't be a re-emergence of the Taliban and another civil war here.

The Mujadeen included not just the Northern Alliance which turned into Heroin smugglers but also what later developed into Al Quaeda and the Taliban.  It is in fact where our enemy got his start.

Do you ENJOY talking out your ass and making stuff up or do you just do it by accident?  The Muj and the Northern Alliance are two separate completely different entities.  Neither of which are into Heroin smuggling.  The NA was actually fighting against the Taliban....who by the way ARE the Heroin smugglers and dealers in this part of the world.

al-Qaeda...you might be shocked to learn...wasn't part of the Mujahadeen fighters either.  They were a bunch of Arabs that came here...funded by Bin Laden that thought it would be fun to get a piece of the Soviets as well.  They weren't highly regarded by the native Afghan fighters and weren't accepted as legitimate partners either.

The Taliban came along later...funded and created by the Pakistani ISI.  Who to this day still gives them material support.

I'd rather not leave the place as a chaos filled hole in the world where smugglers and terrorist hang out so I would be fully supportive of fixing it, given an actual plan with a reasonable chance of success "fix the place"

Those of us who actually KNOW what's going on here...unlike you...are trying to do just that.  And yes...despite your retarded claim to the contrary...there is a plan and its working.

But hey what do I know...I'm only here on the ground...working day in and day out in the province Mullah Omar USED to call home.

You and your Libtard brethren would just as well have us leave here like yesterday and ignore the place and hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the ass again 5 years form now.

[DumbAss Tanker]

... maybe it's just their inability to get out an unmuddled message, but they seem to be tied up in knots over their afghanistan policy.

Both, actually.  The current total cluster**** over tax policy is a perfect illustration of just how overrated their alleged communication advantage is...it's an 'advantage' as long as the Press is on their side and doing all the heavy lifting for them, as soon as the interests of the Press start to wander off in their own direction Obi-one, Gibbs, & Company start flopping like stranded fish.

Jake, you're mistaken about Afghanistan, but TRG is perhaps overstating it some out of irritation as well.  Disarming the Afghans is not required and actually a nonstarter anyway, there are guys up in the valleys that can start with a few pieces of steel from a shipbreaker on the Indian Ocean and turn our a very credible copy of a Sten gun, PPSh, or TT33 in a couple of weeks (Basically anything they can get their hands on to copy) and it's been that way since long before the Soviets came to play.  There has never been a strong central government nor any reason for the people up in the hills and valleys to trust the good intentions of one if it did exist and wanted to disarm them 'For their own good,' let alone trust the good will of their neighbors in the next valley, especially if the next valley falls in another ethnic or tribal territory. 

The entire place holds together not as a nation-state led by a strong ideologically-based central government, but only as long as the ethnicities, tribes, and clans want it to, and not a second longer.  To keep that together, there does have to be a central government with a credible national force to defend any particular tribe or group that's being pressed (And it's inevitable that by geography some will be more pressed by neighbors than others).  There are problems aplenty inherent right there, but not insurmountable ones as long as US forces are on the ground to provide the force and backbone for NATO forces, and NATO forces are there to back up the occasionally-iffy Afghan national forces. 

Take out the Western stiffening before stability and reliance on the power of the central government to actually protect people becomes institutionalized, and it's just a matter of time until the whole thing breaks up into a mess with Islam being the only unifying social force, which is an open door for the Taliban to re-enter.  Normally that kind of acclimatization to the benefits of peace takes a couple of generations growing up in its protection to take root, time in which people get used to having the benefits of civilization on a predictable basis instead of looking on it as just a pleasant interlude of a few years when the Westerners breezed into town, spent a lot of money, and moved on when they got bored. 

Unfortunately our political system and the attention span of our Press and public makes us generally suck pretty badly at winning the peace after winning the war, and Obama is shaping a picture of policy that looks like it's going to suck on a legendary level.     

[dutch508]

Oh- one more small fact.

The Northern Alliance was in the North.

Junbish-i Milli-yi Islami (National Islamic Movement) - After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the non-Pashtun militias in the north centered in the city of Mazar-i Sharif, constituted themselves into a new organization, the Junbish-i Milli-yi Islami (National Islamic Movement), founded by General Abdul Rashid Dostum, whose base of support lies primarily among the Sunni Muslim Uzbeks. A large number of fighters forming part of this organization (the numbers vary between 15,000 and 160,000) had a reputation of being the best equipped of Afghanistan. General Abdul Rashid Dostum received support from Uzbekistan and from Russia. He had formed an alliance with G. Hikmatyar in 1994 and was part of the alliance formed against B. Rabbani, the ‘Supreme Coordination Council’. Dostum and Commander Abdul Malik shared nominal control of five to six north central provinces. In May 1997, Dostum was defeated in battle by Malik, who defected to the Taleban and subsequently fled the country. The Taleban managed briefly to enter Mazaar-i-Sharif, though they were forced out within days after heavy street fighting. General Dostum, who had held overall control of the city, then fled the country and his faction split. In September 1997 General Dostum returned from exile in Turkey.
Jamiat-i Islami (Islamic Society) In 1973 Burhanuddin Rabbani, a lecturer at the sharia (Islamic law) faculty of Kabul University, was chosen as chairman of Jamiat-i Islami, a predominately Tajik Islamist party which developed as the dominant party in the Persian speaking areas of northeastern and western Afghanistan. At first Rabbani received some financial and material support from the Government of Saudi Arabia, but this appears to have ended in 1993. Former President Rabbani claims to be the head of the Government and controls most of the country's embassies abroad and retains Afghanistan's UN seat after the U.N. General Assembly deferred a decision on Afghanistan's credentials. Rabbani received nominal support from General Malik (until he was driven out of Afghanistan), from General Dostum, and the Shi'a/Hazara Hezb-i-Wahdat.
Rabbani’s famous Mujahideen military commander Ahmad Shah Masood built the most sophisticated military-political organization, the Supervisory Council of the North (SCN-Shura-yi Nazar-i Shamali). The SCN coordinated Jamiat commanders in about five provinces and also created region-wide forces which developed into Masood’s Islamic Army (Urdu-yi Islami). Rabbani and Masood control the northeastern, largely Tajik, portion of the country, including the strategic Panjshir valley north of Kabul.

[TheSarge]

So...Jake...you were saying...