Author Topic: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market  (Read 16665 times)

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2010, 10:55:35 PM »
Japan routinely ignored international copyright and patent laws.  Many of the engines used to power their post-war civilian and military vehicles were originally used under license from Chevrolet and BMW.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2010, 10:58:32 PM »
WE, if I remember correctly, you lived in Japan for a while, didn't you??

indeed, I did.  and it was nothing like the place that he describes.

Offline curtis290

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2010, 11:10:32 PM »
Dude, you are not making any sense.  If we are on the verge of a socialist revolution it is because hardly any body in elected office has stood up to it.  We tolerated a little bit here and a little bit there and then we let a true Marxist get elected after years of socialism-lite brought about an economic collapse and he went to town accelerating the process.

If there had been enough elected conservatives holding the line all this time we would not be here.

If we are on the verge of a socialist revolution, your ideology will only hasten it.

Thank you for getting to the topic at hand.  But you're not seeing what I'm saying.  I don't think socialism isn't present right now.  But when this crisis really gets in full swing, it will be a serious force in politics.  I'm not talking about social democracy.  I'm talking about a revolution.  I'm talking about one in three people being unemployed and millions without basic necessities.  Since we're so used to prosperity, it'll be hard on people, and some will turn to socialism.

Second, socialism lite isn't the cause of this depression.  First, on economic issues, both Republicans and Democrats over the past few decades are much more free-market oriented than they used to be.  LBJ would look like a socialistic by our standards, and Nixon would look like a Democrat.  Second, recessions and depressions happen every once in a while.  It's part of the business cycle, and you'll find this in any standard econ textbook.  This one was caused by a variety of complex global economic factors  that are too complicated to get into now, although I go more into in my blog.  In one sentence, giant, unsustainable asset bubbles were blown in the post Bretton Woods economic regime of the neoliberal era (1980s-2000s), with floating exchange rates, free trade, easy credit, and the growth of the financial sector and transnational capital.  Anyways, we have depressions about every 60 years, one in the 1870s, one in the 1930s, and in the post WW2 era, one in the 2000s.

in fact, japan did poorly economically UNTIL they westernized.  and that includes western religion.



If you think Japan is a Christian nation than you don't know much about Japan.  Anyways, since this was a part of the 'only Christian nations do well economically' debate, than I guess you're with Mrs. Smith?  You think that only Christian countries do well in a capitalist economic system?  I guess you don't have a lot of faith in capitalism then, do you.  Also, the comments on the cars are funny in light of the American auto sector.  If their products are so terrible, why are there so many Japanese cars in the US?  I think it's because our best and brightest are too busy playing with numbers on Wall Street instead of producing real goods, like cars and computers.

Japan routinely ignored international copyright and patent laws.  Many of the engines used to power their post-war civilian and military vehicles were originally used under license from Chevrolet and BMW.

OK.  But what does that have to do with Japan of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s?  Does it change the fact that they had the highest growth rates in world history?  And why are you in on this discussion?  Are you with the Mrs. Smith crowd, that thinks capitalism only does well in Christian countries?  I guess you don't have much faith in capitalism then.  So then, what about all of these non-Christian countries?  Should they give up on capitalism?  Do you think they should turn to socialism?

indeed, I did.  and it was nothing like the place that he describes.

And when were you there?  The 1980s?  Everyone that I've talked to that's been there since then has painted a completely different picutre than you.  But I guess you don't think it's a successful country.  So tell me, what are your standards for an economically successful country?  Or do you think it's a Christian country?  Because from all your debating, I'm assuming you're with Mrs. Smith.  Why else would you quibble with small facts that don't have anything to do with my real arguments.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2010, 11:14:17 PM »
OK.  But what does that have to do with Japan of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s?  And why are you in on this discussion?
I'm in this dicussion becuase I want to be.  You got a ****ing problem with that?
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2010, 11:19:34 PM »
I'm in this dicussion becuase I want to be.  You got a ****ing problem with that?

dude.  do him.  he isn't even a decent chew toy. 

Offline Thor

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2010, 11:27:08 PM »


OK.  But what does that have to do with Japan of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s?  Does it change the fact that they had the highest growth rates in world history?  And why are you in on this discussion?  Are you with the Mrs. Smith crowd, that thinks capitalism only does well in Christian countries?  I guess you don't have much faith in capitalism then.  So then, what about all of these non-Christian countries?  Should they give up on capitalism?  Do you think they should turn to socialism?


I don't know who the **** you THINK you are, but this is a forum and every member is allowed to participate. If you have a problem with that, then you'll be on your way. You have NO say so as to who posts where on this forum.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2010, 11:29:35 PM »
this has ceased to be a discussion. 

it's time to do the deed.


Offline Thor

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2010, 11:33:38 PM »
It's gone....... buh bye, troll...... run along and find another playground......
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2010, 11:35:40 PM »
Buh bye!
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Revolution

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2010, 04:20:10 AM »
Quote
OK.  But what does that have to do with Japan of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s? And why are you in on this discussion?

OHHH :lmao:!

I've never seen a meaty treat be as brash as that before.

Just another case of more balls than brains, I guess.

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Offline Carl

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2010, 04:42:25 AM »
If this is what gets turned out of college these days then a whole crap load of money is bring wasted.
Every long winded post contradicting an earlier one or even an earlier part of the current one. :mental:

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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2010, 07:03:29 AM »
OHHH :lmao:!

I've never seen a meaty treat be as brash as that before.

Just another case of more balls than brains, I guess.

And not much in the way of balls.

I love how we got the blanket accusation of being libertarians, yet canvassing most of the more regular members (you know, the ones that DON'T run off all butt-hurt when called on their bullshit) you'll find that they're anything BUT.  I've stated time and again why I have serious disagreements with libertarian philosophy.  Ditto formerlurker, DOC, and a whole host of others.

Ah, but we get the noobs in here claiming they're the **true** conservatives.

Got it.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2010, 07:06:25 AM »
I missed the fun, but did manage to wade through about 80% of the troll's posts. God, somebody give me an Excedrin.

Regarding Japan, a huge reason for their manufacturing capability/quality exceeding the US auto industry's has very much to do with Dr. W. Edwards Deming. His and other's principals of quality were largely rejected by the US industry in the Fifties, but embraced by the Japanese. It took awhile, but the Japs started doing things right...

As to religion, since when do religions have to be theistic anyway? If I want to worship my computer monitor, who's going to tell me that's not a religion if that's what I embrace? Our little chew toy flamed out far too fast. I would've liked to engage him on a couple of those things...
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2010, 10:30:37 AM »
Boy he really blew his wad early huh? :rofl:
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Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2010, 11:04:54 AM »
Thank you for getting to the topic at hand.  But you're not seeing what I'm saying.  I don't think socialism isn't present right now.  But when this crisis really gets in full swing, it will be a serious force in politics.  I'm not talking about social democracy.  I'm talking about a revolution.  I'm talking about one in three people being unemployed and millions without basic necessities.  Since we're so used to prosperity, it'll be hard on people, and some will turn to socialism.

Second, socialism lite isn't the cause of this depression.  First, on economic issues, both Republicans and Democrats over the past few decades are much more free-market oriented than they used to be.  LBJ would look like a socialistic by our standards, and Nixon would look like a Democrat.  Second, recessions and depressions happen every once in a while.  It's part of the business cycle, and you'll find this in any standard econ textbook.  This one was caused by a variety of complex global economic factors  that are too complicated to get into now, although I go more into in my blog.  In one sentence, giant, unsustainable asset bubbles were blown in the post Bretton Woods economic regime of the neoliberal era (1980s-2000s), with floating exchange rates, free trade, easy credit, and the growth of the financial sector and transnational capital.  Anyways, we have depressions about every 60 years, one in the 1870s, one in the 1930s, and in the post WW2 era, one in the 2000s.

Actually, a good deal of the bubble was caused by non-free market factors, including socialism-lite.  One of the big factors in the housing bubble was the government, under threat of force, compelled financial institutions to make loans to people that the financial institutions knew couldn't pay them back.  In order to protect themselves, the financial institutions created these confusing swaps which may have been completely worthless, I confess I don't totally understand these products.

And then it just came out in the past few days that the Federal Reserve has been manipulating the market since the crash of 1987 trying to prevent the business cycle and creating such bubbles as the tech bubble and the housing bubble.

Under such manipulations, it can hardly be called a free market at this point.

The only thing that can really "save us" right now is moving back toward a free market.  Without the valuation of a free market, nobody actually knows what anything is actually worth.
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Offline BattleHymn

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #90 on: October 02, 2010, 11:26:41 AM »
And not much in the way of balls.

I love how we got the blanket accusation of being libertarians, yet canvassing most of the more regular members (you know, the ones that DON'T run off all butt-hurt when called on their bullshit) you'll find that they're anything BUT. 


I originally came over here just to read the DUmpster, but decided to join and stop lurking, BECAUSE of the non-libertarian leanings here.   

Offline TVDOC

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #91 on: October 02, 2010, 01:14:54 PM »
Boy he really blew his wad early huh? :rofl:

Crap....I went to bed too early, and missed the application of the hammer.......

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Offline Thor

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #92 on: October 02, 2010, 02:42:18 PM »
In retrospect, I should have allowed the little moron to hang around for at least the weekend.  :thatsright:
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #93 on: October 02, 2010, 02:46:11 PM »
In retrospect, I should have allowed the little moron to hang around for at least the weekend.  :thatsright:

Nah.....I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, so if you hadn't done last night, I probably would have this morning.....just because I need the practice......

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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Looking for non-liberal conservatives who don't worship the free market
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2010, 07:19:46 AM »
Rush gets seminar callers...we get seminar posters.
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