Author Topic: Can someone please explain this to me?  (Read 5048 times)

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Offline Carl

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2008, 02:24:02 PM »
Ironically, Soviet Union was the first nation to recognize Israel. Soviet Union was bent on destroying Israel and were involved in the wars. Another thing is many Nazis fled to the Middle East, particularly Egypt, Syria, and Iraq. They were ruled by Pan-Arabists, which includes the Baath Party. Pan-Arabism shaped Saddam Hussein, Yasser Arafat, and Osama bin Laden. These Muslim terrorists evolved from Arab nationalists. Middle East was plagued with terrorism in the 1960s and 1970s, but they were nationalists at the time. Groups like Fatah and PLO are more socialists, than religious. Lot of this problem in the Middle East is rather recent and it is due to the legacy of Fascism and Communism. Hitler and Stalin maybe long dead, but their spirit lives on.   

The bottom line is always the same...an alliance to Marxisim and Socialism in the secular sense,which lends itself to true religious fanaticism.

It is in keeping with western libs that that accuse Conservatives who are religious of wanting a theocracy yet they turn a blind eye to the fact that anytime religion has mingled with the left it has resulted in tyranny and despotism.

Offline franksolich

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2008, 02:29:54 PM »
Can I just say.......that I appreciate the intelligent conversation on this subject. :-)

Well now, there's all sorts of historic liberal sudden about-faces.

One of the minor ones occurred on January 20, 1981, circa 10:00 a.m., when the homeless, out of the blue, were discovered.

Only to disappear exactly to the hour, twelve years later.

Some in the media tried to rediscover the homeless on January 20, 2001, at exactly 10:00 a.m., and it got a few sniffs, and then died.

What has always gotten me is the liberal preoccupation with the federal deficit and the national debt.

That used to be am exclusively Republican concern; it was no big deal to Democrats and liberals, nothing to worry about.

Then suddenly at that magic hour, 10:00 a.m. on January 20, 1981, Democrats and liberals abruptly started thinking the federal deficit and the national debt are big deals.

It's been a very long time now, and there's hardly anybody around to remember, but Prohibition was considered a Great Liberal Cause.
Democrats: A bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that other rich people are the reason they are poor

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2008, 04:32:11 PM »
^Ronald Regan's inauguration......?

doc
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2008, 05:48:10 PM »
Pardon the thread necrophilia.  :-) This is so timely, I just had to add it -

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/05/09/the-perfection-fallacy-or-ill-give-you-something-to-complain-about.php

I can see November 2 from my house!!!

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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline megimoo

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2008, 12:05:32 AM »
I never associated "Neocon" with Israel support.  I think it means a Big Government "conservative," and features growing the deficit, growing government, subsidies for failing business and complicity in Illegal Immigration.  The only "con" part is the desire for lower taxes, which is in conflict with the rest except the growing defecit.

But that is just me.


The modern interpretation of "neocon" comes from a group of liberal/centrist politically active Jews (in the late 80's and 90's) that were/are supporters of Israel, and generally hawkish on the application of military force as an instrument of US foreign policy......they found a home in the republican party when the democrats fell under the control of the anti-war crowd....

doc
I agree with most of your definition of Neo,(new),Con (conservative )!The name comes from the obvious reference to the former liberal affiliation of well known Jewish Intellectuals .The Neoconservative Revolution of Jewish Intellectuals who broke with the liberals over the Defense of Israel.Irving Crystal and his son and a few others are the best known.Liberals and their petty followers have incorporated it into their political jargon,Turn Coat is their newest term in this category !

Offline Lauri

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2008, 12:08:35 AM »
Nothing spurred this on. It's just something I've been mulling over for some time now. What's with all of the pathological and sometimes irrational hatred of Israel? Seriously, I don't get it. "Neo-con" gets thrown around so much these days and I really believe half of the people who use it as an insult don't even understand it's meaning. I have noticed this not only online but in real life.

Personally, I don't see what the problem is with Israel. It's a country. But it seems to be a conveinent scapegoat for all of America's ills. I get sick and tired of hearing people say "Bush's neocon this and that..." I've had no fewer than three people say something along those lines in face to face conversations. It's not coming from rabid liberals either. It's like a sickness has taken hold and formerly (assumed to be) rational folks start using the broad brush to criticize whatever U.S. policy is being reported in the media.

Color me a fool or babe in the woods if you must, I just don't get it. Yes, I know my history and I get why people have chosen sides in the Jew/Arab conflict...I just don't get the hate and broad brushing from normal, everyday people who have probably never even encountered an Israeli much less had cause to hate a country so much.

I understand frustration with U.S. policy. I certainly have my share of gripes and complaints. But the armchair quarterbacking is a bit much for me these days. Not to mention the fact that withdrawing all U.S. support would set off a series of unintended consequences.

What's wrong with people? I don't get......

And I really think that if the hatred and energy expended towards "the joooooooooos!" were ever channeled to illegal immigration, it would resolve itself in no time at all.

Okay, thank you for indulging Dixie's brain droppings today.  :-)




is this gator bait?  :hyper:

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2008, 04:16:57 AM »
Might also help if you peruse this--a dated article, but a relevant one...

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg052003.asp

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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2008, 11:06:31 AM »
Nothing spurred this on. It's just something I've been mulling over for some time now. What's with all of the pathological and sometimes irrational hatred of Israel? Seriously, I don't get it. "Neo-con" gets thrown around so much these days and I really believe half of the people who use it as an insult don't even understand it's meaning. I have noticed this not only online but in real life.

Personally, I don't see what the problem is with Israel. It's a country. But it seems to be a conveinent scapegoat for all of America's ills. I get sick and tired of hearing people say "Bush's neocon this and that..." I've had no fewer than three people say something along those lines in face to face conversations. It's not coming from rabid liberals either. It's like a sickness has taken hold and formerly (assumed to be) rational folks start using the broad brush to criticize whatever U.S. policy is being reported in the media.

Color me a fool or babe in the woods if you must, I just don't get it. Yes, I know my history and I get why people have chosen sides in the Jew/Arab conflict...I just don't get the hate and broad brushing from normal, everyday people who have probably never even encountered an Israeli much less had cause to hate a country so much.

I understand frustration with U.S. policy. I certainly have my share of gripes and complaints. But the armchair quarterbacking is a bit much for me these days. Not to mention the fact that withdrawing all U.S. support would set off a series of unintended consequences.

What's wrong with people? I don't get......

And I really think that if the hatred and energy expended towards "the joooooooooos!" were ever channeled to illegal immigration, it would resolve itself in no time at all.

Okay, thank you for indulging Dixie's brain droppings today.  :-)




is this gator bait?  :hyper:
Nah. Was honestly just an attempt to discuss an issue that can easily get off track if you know what I mean.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 11:15:12 AM by DixieBelle »
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Lauri

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2008, 01:14:09 PM »
no problem :-) I was just curious, had to ask..

and my honest opinion on Israel is this:

i think a lot of us are worried they *are* God's chosen people and hence, we dont want them blown off the earth in yet another religious war.

we know we give them too much money, but we think if we stop God might smite us or something.. :-)

we also promised to give them that money decades ago and i have no idea what it would take to undo it..

so, we are stuck at a crossroads it would seem. we either reassess our financial obligations to the world, including Israel, and keep moving forward with that, or we cut it off and take the heat.

i have no idea what the path should be... but it seems things are coming to a head in that region and we'll be forced to choose soon enough.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2008, 01:56:15 PM »
no problem :-) we know we give them too much money, but we think if we stop God might smite us or something.. :-)

we also promised to give them that money decades ago and i have no idea what it would take to undo it..


I think many have the wrong idea about our aid to Israel (and many don't want to know the truth), which, last time I looked, is largely military and defense related, of which, most is turned around and spent right here in the good 'ol US keeping our factories running and providing jobs.

Israel has a strong economy at most times, and is a net exporter of technology right now, and a number of US manufacturers have "joint ventures" there.  It is not as though we are handing them buckets of cash, Israel is a true ally and a strong trading partner to the US.

doc
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Offline Miss Mia

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Re: Can someone please explain this to me?
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2008, 03:19:38 PM »
Can I just say.......that I appreciate the intelligent conversation on this subject. :-)

Thanks for reviving this thread, I missed it the first go around.  It's a very interesting read.  I can for myself, I don't know much about Israel, but have always found any hatred of it to be a little strange. 

Also, I was never sure of what the term "neo-con" referred to, because mostly it's used as a slur, so I just ignored it. 
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