Like it or not, we LOST the Iraq War

[dandi]

Let the revisionist history begin:

ck4829 (1000+ posts)        Thu Sep-02-10 11:06 AM
Original message
Like it or not, we LOST the Iraq War 
 This isn't a statement said to hate the troops, America, our people, our ideals, etc. It is actually a statement in respect of them, as well as respect for human rights and even civilization itself.

Every war has objectives, a casus belli. It doesn't matter if it "changes", the original commitment is what matters, it's what separates us from barbarians or wild animals.

We didn't go in to get revenge for Saddam supposedly causing 9/11.
We didn't go in to act as a bulwark against Iran.
We didn't go in to prop up Maliki and his cleric allies.

We invaded Iraq in order to locate their weapons of mass destruction. And until we find them, then we can not truthfully say that we've "won" the war there. And if they weren't there to begin with, then it still represents a failure on every level of leadership and intelligence.

You can be jingoistic and say we "won", but did we? Does saying that we have won really respect those who died or have been permanently disabled? Is saying that we have won really worth our humanity?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9062143

Yeah, you're "respecting the troops" by claiming the cause they believed in and fought for and laid down their lives for was bullshit. Stick your "respect" up your ass.

Every war has objectives, a casus belli. It doesn't matter if it "changes", the original commitment is what matters, it's what separates us from barbarians or wild animals.

We didn't go in to get revenge for Saddam supposedly causing 9/11.
We didn't go in to act as a bulwark against Iran.
We didn't go in to prop up Maliki and his cleric allies.

We invaded Iraq in order to locate their weapons of mass destruction

And...


Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq , including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq ;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;

Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 (1990) and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (1991), repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 (1991), and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949 (1994) ;

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/wariniraq/a/jt_resolution_2.htm

Funny how they always leave those parts out and try to claim it was 100% about WMDs.

 
 
 

 

[AllosaursRus]

Strange, I only saw WMD's in there once! I know what happened! DUmmies are to stooooopid to read past the first coupla sentences! They saw what the wanted in order to load their talking point and ignore all the rest!

Well, we don't call 'em DUmmies for nuttin'!

Oh, and I guess we can just forget about all those trucks that raced into Syria right before we kicked SuddenlyInsane's ass!

[TheSarge]

We invaded Iraq in order to locate their weapons of mass destruction

Sigh...been awhile since I've had to school the DUmmies on this but here goes.

Polish troops recently discovered more than a dozen warheads containing mustard or sarin gas in Iraq, US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a radio interview released Thursday.
Rumsfeld said Polish Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski told him about the find when they met earlier this week at a NATO summit in Istanbul.

"He pointed out that his troops in Iraq had recently come across -- I've forgotten the number, but something like 16 or 17 -- warheads that contained sarin and mustard gas," Rumsfeld told Newradio 600 KOGO of San Diego, California, in an interview aired Wednesday.

"Now these are weapons that we always knew Saddam Hussein had that he had not declared, and they have tested them," he said.

The Pentagon released a transcript of the interview on Thursday.

http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040701203743.9i07uh3m.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-01-poland-iraq-sarin_x.htm

The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found.  The round had been rigged as an IED, which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.  A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable.  This produced a very small dispersal of agent.  The round was an old binary type requiring the mixing of two chemical components in separate sections of the cell before the deadly agent is produced. The cell is designed to work after being fired from an artillery piece.  Mixing and dispersal of the agent from such a projectile as an IED is very limited.  The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War.  Two explosive ordnance team members were minor exposure to nerve agent as a result of the partial detonation of the round.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=3024

On March 12, 2009, Iraq declared Bunkers 13 and 41 at Muthanna containing filled and unfilled chemical munitions and precursors, as well as five former chemical weapons production facilities, to the international body overseeing CWC implementation—the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in The Hague, the Netherlands.[9]

Because of the hazardous conditions in Bunker 13, UNSCOM inspectors were unable to make an accurate inventory of its contents before sealing the entrances in 1994. As a result, no record exists of the exact number or status of the sarin-filled rockets remaining in the bunker. According to the UNMOVIC final report in 2007, the rockets "may be both filled and unfilled, armed or unarmed, in good condition or deteriorated."[10] In the worst-case scenario, the munitions could contain as much as 15,000 liters of sarin. Although it is likely that the nerve agent has degraded substantially after nearly two decades of storage under suboptimal conditions, UNMOVIC cautioned that "the levels of degradation of the sarin fill in the rockets cannot be determined without exploring the bunker and taking samples from intact warheads."[11] If the sarin remains highly toxic and many of the rockets are still intact, they could pose a proliferation risk.

Even if the sarin inside the rockets in Bunker 13 has degraded to the point that it has no military value and is little more than hazardous waste, the CWC still requires that all such materials be destroyed. Following Iraq's submission of its initial CW declaration in March 2009, the OPCW Technical Secretariat processed and analyzed the data. In April, Iraq submitted a general plan for destroying the CW materials stored in the two declared bunkers at Muthanna, as well as dismantling its former chemical weapons production facilities.[12]

On June 21, 2006, at the request of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Director of National Intelligence John D. Negroponte declassified the "key points" from a U.S. Army National Ground Intelligence Center report on the recovery of chemical munitions in Iraq:

Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist.
Pre-Gulf War Iraqi chemical weapons could be sold on the black market. Use of these weapons by terrorists or insurgent groups would have implications for Coalition forces in Iraq. The possibility of use outside Iraq cannot be ruled out.

The most likely munitions remaining are sarin and mustard-filled projectiles.

The purity of the agent inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives, and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal.

It has been reported in open press that insurgents and Iraqi groups desire to acquire and use chemical weapons.

http://cns.miis.edu/stories/100304_iraq_cw_legacy.htm


The ONLY reason Iraq was "lost" to the DUmmies is because they couldn't succeed in getting the Libtards in D.C. to pull the troops out or stop President Bush from implementing the Surge.

[AllosaursRus]

Suck on that, DUmmies! You guys just want to ignore logic and claim "W" was a war monger! Never mind the chemicals he used on his own people in Northern Iraq! Imbeciles!

No sane person believes Sadumb destroyed his chemical arsenal!

[DumbAss Tanker]

Exactly correct, TRG; we did find WMDs, we just did not find the 'New' stuff that intelligence told us he was working on.  However, even if we didn't find it, we DID very effectively and permanently terminate all efforts on his part to work toward them!

[AllosaursRus]

Exactly correct, TRG; we did find WMDs, we just did not find the 'New' stuff that intelligence told us he was working on.  However, even if we didn't find it, we DID very effectively and permanently terminate all efforts on his part to work toward them!

I have a rotten feeling Syria is sittin' on some pretty nasty stuff compliments of the "Dead One" though!

[TheSarge]

Exactly correct, TRG; we did find WMDs, we just did not find the 'New' stuff that intelligence told us he was working on.  However, even if we didn't find it, we DID very effectively and permanently terminate all efforts on his part to work toward them!

Yeah we didn't find the "new" stuff.  But we found stuff he said he'd gotten rid of.  Which i the wrong hands was still just as deadly.


I just get sick and tired of the pricks that insist that there were ZERO WMD's found in Iraq.

[DumbAss Tanker]

They have multiple black programs of their own, anything Sodomite Hussein sent over the border just became extra inventory.

[Happy Fun Ball]

Like it or not, we LOST the Iraq War

For once, I agree. You did lose the war. You could not stop the surge. You could not defund it. Your mindless rhetoric did not work. All those years bashing Bush, the troops, and those that supported the war did not work. Sure, Bush wasn't as popular as he was before it started, but it still did not succeed in stopping the war. All of those protests and rallies you had did not work. All of the attacks on recruitment centers only made you look like fools, and it did not work. All of your lies and exaggerations about the war like Haditha, tortue, rape, war crimes, etc. did not work. All of your hopes and dreams of a humiliating American defeat did not come to pass. In short, you fail it. You lose. The good guys won.

[TheSarge]

For once, I agree. You did lose the war. You could not stop the surge. You could not defund it. Your mindless rhetoric did not work. All those years bashing Bush, the troops, and those that supported the war did not work. Sure, Bush wasn't as popular as he was before it started, but it still did not succeed in stopping the war. All of those protests and rallies you had did not work. All of the attacks on recruitment centers only made you look like fools, and it did not work. All of your lies and exaggerations about the war like Haditha, tortue, rape, war crimes, etc. did not work. All of your hopes and dreams of a humiliating American defeat did not come to pass. In short, you fail it. You lose. The good guys won.

[dandi]

For once, I agree. You did lose the war. You could not stop the surge. You could not defund it. Your mindless rhetoric did not work. All those years bashing Bush, the troops, and those that supported the war did not work. Sure, Bush wasn't as popular as he was before it started, but it still did not succeed in stopping the war. All of those protests and rallies you had did not work. All of the attacks on recruitment centers only made you look like fools, and it did not work. All of your lies and exaggerations about the war like Haditha, tortue, rape, war crimes, etc. did not work. All of your hopes and dreams of a humiliating American defeat did not come to pass. In short, you fail it. You lose. The good guys won.

 


And it's ending on Bush's timetable, not Obama's, per the SOFA the Bush administration negotiated in 2008. So suck on that too, DUmbasses.