Author Topic: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?  (Read 48635 times)

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Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2010, 09:30:53 AM »
This thread ain't in FC yet?   :popcorn:

I thought about it, but it wouldn't change anything:

bkg - what would you do?
NHS - fawk you.
bkg - seriously - what's your answer?
NHS - you're a 100%-er, ron-paul loving idiot who hates the military
bkg - so how do you cut the debt
NHS - you're an idiot who has shit ideas

pretty much already played out there, hasn't it?

Offline NHSparky

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2010, 11:25:39 AM »
I thought about it, but it wouldn't change anything:

bkg - what would you do?
NHS - fawk you.
bkg - seriously - what's your answer?
NHS - you're a 100%-er, ron-paul loving idiot who hates the military
bkg - so how do you cut the debt
NHS - you're an idiot who has shit ideas

pretty much already played out there, hasn't it?

Yo, ****bubble--did I say you hated the military?  No, but neither have you yet to answer my question as to whether or not military retirement benefiits (pay, VA, etc.,) are considered "entitlements" (psst--by your definition, they are.)

And yes, your "ideas" are shit.  Please tell me how you would implement even the least severe of the measures you propose without decades-long devestation to the economy.

I've in fact heard your "proposals" from others.  Usually from Paulbots, and usually with no deeper thought to the subject than, "Let's cut EVERYTHING!"  Sounds good on the surface, but what you once again fail to grasp is that there is NO quick fix.  The debt goes far beyond just SS or other "entitlement" spending, and getting to the point where national debt is less than 50 percent of GDP (as it was less than five years ago) will take DECADES to fix.  Sadly, my detaling what needs to be done, and when, would not only not satisfy your "requirements", they'd not go deep enough, and frankly, you probably don't understand them anyway.

Now I realize this is going to be difficult, and in fact likely impossible for you to attempt, but try this:

Instead of using your entire mental faculties to trace your finger along the screen and mouth the words which are written there, try stopping that, and actually UNDERSTANDING what is written rather than just reading it.  That's going to go above and beyond just aping what someone has told you.  Again, I know you're likely out of your depth, but I have to at least ATTEMPT to give you benefit of the doubt at least once.

One thing that hasn't yet been proposed which I will throw out there as a small bone is this:

--Eliminate the EIC.

Here are a few others:

--Minimum tax bracket for ALL taxpayers of 10 percent.  EVERYONE pays.

--Eliminate deduction for mortgage interest, but lower taxable income rate for singles making less than 100K (married 150K) to 15 percent.  Lock in marginal federal tax rate at 28 percent starting at 200K in 2010 dollars, and index to inflation.  Couple that with simplification of tax code which minimizes loopholes, but provides credit for investment in domestic companies or investments.

--Reduce budgets of Depts. of Education and Dept. of Energy to eliminate both departments in 20 years.  Interior is responsible for all energy development on US soil and offshore.  Essential functions such as NRC, etc., are transferred to other agencies such as Homeland Security, etc.  Pare down other departments such as HHS and Homeland Security to privatize large functions such as TSA and CDC.

--Enforce border controls as set forth in 1986 immigration law, to include prosecution of companies which knowingly employ illegals.  Nothing like a few CEO's doing a perp walk for having illegals on the line to discourage fraudulent employment.  No amnesty, no "pay a fine", no years in immigration limbo, no "catch-and-release".  If you're caught, you're gone.  Try again, five years in federal prison. 

--Transfer Medicare/Medicaid back to 100 percent state/local control.  More conservative states will show the way to the more liberal ones.

--Re-reform welfare.  No more than 2 years lifetime UEI benefits versus the current 5. 

There, does that make your little cootchie feel all better now, bkg?
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Offline GOP Congress

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2010, 12:00:50 PM »
Quote
--Minimum tax bracket for ALL taxpayers of 10 percent.  EVERYONE pays.

--Eliminate deduction for mortgage interest, but lower taxable income rate for singles making less than 100K (married 150K) to 15 percent.  Lock in marginal federal tax rate at 28 percent starting at 200K in 2010 dollars, and index to inflation.  Couple that with simplification of tax code which minimizes loopholes, but provides credit for investment in domestic companies or investments.

--Reduce budgets of Depts. of Education and Dept. of Energy to eliminate both departments in 20 years.  Interior is responsible for all energy development on US soil and offshore.  Essential functions such as NRC, etc., are transferred to other agencies such as Homeland Security, etc.  Pare down other departments such as HHS and Homeland Security to privatize large functions such as TSA and CDC.

--Enforce border controls as set forth in 1986 immigration law, to include prosecution of companies which knowingly employ illegals.  Nothing like a few CEO's doing a perp walk for having illegals on the line to discourage fraudulent employment.  No amnesty, no "pay a fine", no years in immigration limbo, no "catch-and-release".  If you're caught, you're gone.  Try again, five years in federal prison.

--Transfer Medicare/Medicaid back to 100 percent state/local control.  More conservative states will show the way to the more liberal ones.

--Re-reform welfare.  No more than 2 years lifetime UEI benefits versus the current 5. 

OK, all these are good points. My question: What should the Congress do to start the governing process for such action?

We got the Bamster, the judiciary, and what's left of the mainstream media that will have new-found life as the minority again. Starting November 4, Congress will become a far bigger enemy to democrats that will most probably dwarf the antipathy experienced against George W. Bush. So that obstacle will have to be overcome.

This is the point of the thread. Having bullet points is a start, but how should a GOP congress govern? Specifically, how can this Congress avoid the pitfalls that befell the Contract with America Class of '94?

Will they just throw out the bullet points and sees what sticks, or will they go in KNOWING that the media is DEAD SET against them and will do their DAMNEDEST to sow dissent, not just the president and his Chicago thugs?

"The main purpose of the Democrat Party and the Left is to destroy the United States, transform Western Civilization to a tribal-based dystopia, and to ultimately kill all conservatives and non progressives." - Jonah Kyle

Offline Eupher

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2010, 12:10:12 PM »
Quote
Will they just throw out the bullet points and sees what sticks, or will they go in KNOWING that the media is DEAD SET against them and will do their DAMNEDEST to sow dissent, not just the president and his Chicago thugs?

I'd say that any GOP Congress (should it come about) had damn well better attack the attackers. One of the many things that doomed GWB in the public opinion wars was his refusal to come out and fight and, in general, to communicate to the American people.

A failure by the GOP to develop a strategy that includes attacking the element that keeps sniping at you has a pretty big impact on your agenda when the bodies continue stacking up around you.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2010, 12:38:46 PM »
Bingo.  Ronaldus Maximus was known as the "Great Communicator" for a reason.  He could go on the attack without it SOUNDING like an attack, and more importantly, knew how to sell his ideas to the American people, and most of those ideas resonated well with most Americans.
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Offline GOP Congress

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2010, 03:10:52 PM »
Quote
A failure by the GOP to develop a strategy that includes attacking the element that keeps sniping at you has a pretty big impact on your agenda when the bodies continue stacking up around you.

In my opinion, the biggest enemy facing the GOP is the mainstream media. You know damn well they will be coming out from all angles, trying to put out anything and everything they hope will make the GOP cower in certain trenches. As long as we have people in place who will not worry about the next election cycle, and that we put up a REAL conservative/libertarian for the presidency in 2012 who will complete the cycle, and finally, people who don't let the media get away with the shit they've been doing so for 50 years or so, then hopefully it can start the beginning of the end for American socialism, and a return to fundamentalist values.
"The main purpose of the Democrat Party and the Left is to destroy the United States, transform Western Civilization to a tribal-based dystopia, and to ultimately kill all conservatives and non progressives." - Jonah Kyle

Offline Eupher

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2010, 03:15:04 PM »
In my opinion, the biggest enemy facing the GOP is the mainstream media. You know damn well they will be coming out from all angles, trying to put out anything and everything they hope will make the GOP cower in certain trenches. As long as we have people in place who will not worry about the next election cycle, and that we put up a REAL conservative/libertarian for the presidency in 2012 who will complete the cycle, and finally, people who don't let the media get away with the shit they've been doing so for 50 years or so, then hopefully it can start the beginning of the end for American socialism, and a return to fundamentalist values.

Agreed concerning the MSM. That is without a doubt the element that brought down Bush from his post 9-11 pegged-out numbers to his retired-on-active-duty that he showed (along with the lack of approval stats) in his last year in office.

I ain't too sure about the "conservative/libertarian" part for prez, but I understand your point.
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Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2010, 03:59:28 PM »
Yo, ****bubble--did I say you hated the military?  No, but neither have you yet to answer my question as to whether or not military retirement benefiits (pay, VA, etc.,) are considered "entitlements" (psst--by your definition, they are.)

Did I say cut their pensions? Nope - you started the idiotic assumptions, so I figured you'd feel more comfortable if I used your methods.

Quote
I've in fact heard your "proposals" from others.  Usually from Paulbots, and usually with no deeper thought to the subject than, "Let's cut EVERYTHING!"  Sounds good on the surface, but what you once again fail to grasp is that there is NO quick fix.  The debt goes far beyond just SS or other "entitlement" spending, and getting to the point where national debt is less than 50 percent of GDP (as it was less than five years ago) will take DECADES to fix.  Sadly, my detaling what needs to be done, and when, would not only not satisfy your "requirements", they'd not go deep enough, and frankly, you probably don't understand them anyway.

Attack, attack, attack.

Quote
Now I realize this is going to be difficult, and in fact likely impossible for you to attempt, but try this:

Instead of using your entire mental faculties to trace your finger along the screen and mouth the words which are written there, try stopping that, and actually UNDERSTANDING what is written rather than just reading it.  That's going to go above and beyond just aping what someone has told you.  Again, I know you're likely out of your depth, but I have to at least ATTEMPT to give you benefit of the doubt at least once.

Attack, attack, attack.

Quote
One thing that hasn't yet been proposed which I will throw out there as a small bone is this:

--Eliminate the EIC.

WHAT? That would be cutting an entitlement. I wonder if anyone ever suggested cutting an entitlement before. Hmmm... I wonder.

Yes, we agree there.

Quote
Here are a few others:

--Minimum tax bracket for ALL taxpayers of 10 percent.  EVERYONE pays.

Agree there. Most definitely.

Quote
--Eliminate deduction for mortgage interest, but lower taxable income rate for singles making less than 100K (married 150K) to 15 percent.  Lock in marginal federal tax rate at 28 percent starting at 200K in 2010 dollars, and index to inflation.  Couple that with simplification of tax code which minimizes loopholes, but provides credit for investment in domestic companies or investments.

Torn on this. It would be the final nail in the coffin of the housing industry. It would initially cause massive value reductions and increase in foreclosures. For many people, it's all that keeps their house affordable. At the same time, I'm totally fine with eliminating it - ASSUMING - you also eliminate all other deductions at the same time.

Quote
--Reduce budgets of Depts. of Education and Dept. of Energy to eliminate both departments in 20 years.  Interior is responsible for all energy development on US soil and offshore.  Essential functions such as NRC, etc., are transferred to other agencies such as Homeland Security, etc.  Pare down other departments such as HHS and Homeland Security to privatize large functions such as TSA and CDC.

You're actually attempting to answer. Good change of pace. Regan campaigned on the elimination of the Dept of Education and failed to eliminate it. Not a federally granted power, so we definitely agree here. But I would increase the timetable to 5 years. Even though you've attacked me for it, we're now both arguing for reduction in gov't... imagine that.

Quote
--Enforce border controls as set forth in 1986 immigration law, to include prosecution of companies which knowingly employ illegals.  Nothing like a few CEO's doing a perp walk for having illegals on the line to discourage fraudulent employment.  No amnesty, no "pay a fine", no years in immigration limbo, no "catch-and-release".  If you're caught, you're gone.  Try again, five years in federal prison. 

I don't think the 86 immigration law went far enough, but agree it's a good start. Time to build the fence that was already budgeted for. I say this as a 2nd gen import, by the way.

Quote
--Transfer Medicare/Medicaid back to 100 percent state/local control.  More conservative states will show the way to the more liberal ones.

You're attacking me for economic impacts that my general positions would likely have... yet if you do this, you're going to devistate the economies of the states... rather, what is left of the economies of the states. The entitlement needs to be put on a path to elimination.

Quote
--Re-reform welfare.  No more than 2 years lifetime UEI benefits versus the current 5. 

Poverty has increased faster since the implementation of welfare than prior... Needs to be on a path to elimination as well - but would require the gov't to not violate contract law (again and again) with the implementation of yet another minimum wage hike.

Change welfare to a work program - make them work.

Quote
There, does that make your little cootchie feel all better now, bkg?

You mean, since you actually made an attempt at answering the question rather than attacking opinions that you didn't like? Hell, I'm fawking impressed. Hope it didn't hurt too much. Maybe double up on the medication for a day or so to ease the pain.

Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2010, 04:08:40 PM »
 :popcorn:

So far, my ideas are best.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2010, 04:13:59 PM »
:popcorn:

So far, my ideas are best.

What, we all play friggin soccer and sing "Kum-Bah-Ya"? 

I'll pass.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2010, 04:18:54 PM »
Did I say cut their pensions? Nope - you started the idiotic assumptions, so I figured you'd feel more comfortable if I used your methods.

You said cut entitlements.  What is military retired pay and benefits if it isn't an entitlement?

I love how you try to dance around this one.

And FWIW, people said that when Reagan eliminated deduction for credit card interest it would destroy banking and credit industries--quite the opposite has happened, in fact.  Given the fact that bankers/mortgage brokers will no longer be able to use the carrot of shoving more house than people can afford with the "but you can deduct the interest!" bullshit tactic (and sorry, debk, don't tell me it doesn't happen), housing would actually become MORE stable, because you're weeding out people who shouldn't be buying houses or at the very least limiting how MUCH house they get.  The affordability would remain roughly the same.

The biggest problem we face where you're dead wrong on the "cut all entitlement spending" (to which I'm assuming you're primarily alluding to SS, Medicare/Medicaid) is what to do with all the folks who have paid in their entire lives and will then be thrown out on their asses.

Answer that one for me.
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Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2010, 04:29:56 PM »
What, we all play friggin soccer and sing "Kum-Bah-Ya"?  

I'll pass.

You sure are a friggin grouch.....get over yourself...
And if you READ my post a few pages back..you'd know I gave a few responses to the OP and I didn't hurl insults at other posters...something you are very good at.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 04:33:07 PM by Hawkgirl »

Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2010, 04:30:12 PM »
You said cut entitlements.  What is military retired pay and benefits if it isn't an entitlement?

I love how you try to dance around this one.

Already aswered for you -offered to take it off the table, but you refuse. And have you noticed it's the ONLY one you've focused on?  :rotf:

Quote
And FWIW, people said that when Reagan eliminated deduction for credit card interest it would destroy banking and credit industries--quite the opposite has happened, in fact.  Given the fact that bankers/mortgage brokers will no longer be able to use the carrot of shoving more house than people can afford with the "but you can deduct the interest!" bullshit tactic (and sorry, debk, don't tell me it doesn't happen), housing would actually become MORE stable, because you're weeding out people who shouldn't be buying houses or at the very least limiting how MUCH house they get.  The affordability would remain roughly the same.

It's the banker's fault people buy more than they can afford? Holy hell - you're true colors are coming out aren't they?

Quote
The biggest problem we face where you're dead wrong on the "cut all entitlement spending" (to which I'm assuming you're primarily alluding to SS, Medicare/Medicaid) is what to do with all the folks who have paid in their entire lives and will then be thrown out on their asses.

Answer that one for me.

Again, arlready gave you an answer for that one. But again, you've ignored it. You will NOT get back everything you paid into SS as it is... So why the fawk are you bitching about cutting it? Somoene may not get their fair share? Sheesh - your "fairness" attach here is quite in line with the current administration. The money is gone - get over it. Deal with it and move on. How many times do I need to remind you that we're almost $14T in debt? You're upset that I suggest tha we cut entitlements - including SS and Medicaid (which i have family who rely on) and then you start talking about cutting Earned income and mortgage deduction and STILL bitch at me for wanting to cut entitlements.  :rotf: :rotf:

Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2010, 04:32:06 PM »
You sure are a friggin grouch.....get over yourself.

 :cheersmate: :cheersmate: Troof... Everyone but NHS is WRONG, dammit! WRONG! Only took him 6 pages to quit bitching enough to actually present some ideas...  :rotf: :rotf:

Hey Sparky - send me your address... I'll send you a "CUT ENTITLEMENTS!" T-shirt... Girls size small?

Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2010, 04:33:58 PM »
:cheersmate: :cheersmate: Troof... Everyone but NHS is WRONG, dammit! WRONG! Only took him 6 pages to quit bitching enough to actually present some ideas...  :rotf: :rotf:

Hey Sparky - send me your address... I'll send you a "CUT ENTITLEMENTS!" T-shirt... Girls size small?

Yeah, that about sums it up...no use even engaging him.

Offline Carl

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #90 on: June 30, 2010, 04:36:11 PM »
Already aswered for you -offered to take it off the table, but you refuse. And have you noticed it's the ONLY one you've focused on?  :rotf:

It's the banker's fault people buy more than they can afford? Holy hell - you're true colors are coming out aren't they?

Again, arlready gave you an answer for that one. But again, you've ignored it. You will NOT get back everything you paid into SS as it is... So why the fawk are you bitching about cutting it? Somoene may not get their fair share? Sheesh - your "fairness" attach here is quite in line with the current administration. The money is gone - get over it. Deal with it and move on. How many times do I need to remind you that we're almost $14T in debt? You're upset that I suggest tha we cut entitlements - including SS and Medicaid (which i have family who rely on) and then you start talking about cutting Earned income and mortgage deduction and STILL bitch at me for wanting to cut entitlements.  :rotf: :rotf:

Actually taking Medicare and SS benefits together one living to the average life expectancy age will likely get more in benefits then in payments.
That is the problem with the pyramid as it exists now.


Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #91 on: June 30, 2010, 04:45:05 PM »
Actually taking Medicare and SS benefits together one living to the average life expectancy age will likely get more in benefits then in payments.
That is the problem with the pyramid as it exists now.



If you include the increased business taxes? Or just the personal tax dollars? IIRC (been a couple of years, admittedly), the individual doesn't get back what they put in.


Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2010, 04:47:38 PM »
In my opinion, the biggest enemy facing the GOP is the mainstream media. You know damn well they will be coming out from all angles, trying to put out anything and everything they hope will make the GOP cower in certain trenches. As long as we have people in place who will not worry about the next election cycle, and that we put up a REAL conservative/libertarian for the presidency in 2012 who will complete the cycle, and finally, people who don't let the media get away with the shit they've been doing so for 50 years or so, then hopefully it can start the beginning of the end for American socialism, and a return to fundamentalist values.

I'd have to insert MSM as enemy #2. GOP's largest enemy is themselves.

Even the SCOTUS confirmations - GOP can't seem to find a backbone strong enough to ask all the tough questions necessary. :(

Offline Carl

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2010, 05:01:25 PM »
If you include the increased business taxes? Or just the personal tax dollars? IIRC (been a couple of years, admittedly), the individual doesn't get back what they put in.


If you Google rate of return on Social Security it averages out to always be a positive percent.
Obviously that can vary individual to individual and how it compares with other "investments" but I do believe on average more benefits are collected then are paid into the system.
It requires a pool of contributers much larger then collectors to maintain a balance and thus the problem facing it...that ratio is closing while life expectancy is rising.

I am not sure they are taking into account the employer half for those on payroll deduction as being a contribution for the person or just what is deducted.

Still to average out as a positive it would take into account the self employed who do pay the full shot.


Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2010, 05:29:30 PM »
If you Google rate of return on Social Security it averages out to always be a positive percent.
Obviously that can vary individual to individual and how it compares with other "investments" but I do believe on average more benefits are collected then are paid into the system.
It requires a pool of contributers much larger then collectors to maintain a balance and thus the problem facing it...that ratio is closing while life expectancy is rising.

I am not sure they are taking into account the employer half for those on payroll deduction as being a contribution for the person or just what is deducted.

Still to average out as a positive it would take into account the self employed who do pay the full shot.

Got it. My point to the sparkly one was purely on the individual side. Youcan't lose what you don't put in - the company contribution is a good chunk of contributions. Having said that, the rate of return for SS is a fake number - borrowing to make the payments doesn't really count as a rate of return.

EDIT: But your point stands.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 05:32:36 PM by bkg »

Offline rich_t

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2010, 05:30:01 PM »
 :popcorn:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2010, 05:31:16 PM »
:popcorn:

Share some of the popcorn, will ya? :-)


Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2010, 05:31:55 PM »
Share some of the popcorn, will ya? :-)



I bought wine...

Offline rich_t

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2010, 05:34:44 PM »
I bought wine...

Wine with popcorn?

What the **** is wrong with you?

Ummm...  What type of wine?


 :cheersmate:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline bkg

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Re: What should a GOP-controlled Congress do, starting from swear-in?
« Reply #99 on: June 30, 2010, 05:38:02 PM »
Wine with popcorn?

What the **** is wrong with you?

Ummm...  What type of wine?
 :cheersmate:

I have a migraine, so beer didn't sound too good today. And to be fair, I bought it BEFORE the popcorn suggestion... Had ya warned me, I could have made a better choice.  :tongue:

Just a cheap Shiraz for tonight. Mid-week, last two days of the fiscal year... major drinking starts on Friday when the numbers come in. :(