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Offline franksolich

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what do we sound like?
« on: April 05, 2010, 09:02:54 PM »
Okay, I'm probably asking something that defies accurate description in words, something that one can articulate in only ambiguous terms, but here goes.

This morning, I drove up to see my dermatologist in Vermillion, South Dakota (college town), and when going into his office, I was introduced to another physician, a colleague of his whom I've never met.

The second physician just sat there, saying nothing, as I spoke with the dermatologist.

Finally, when the dermatologist was done with his stuff, the second physician spoke up, saying "That.....is.....remarkable."

Oh.  That thing.

I had a vague notion I was being "observed," but thought nothing of it, as I'm used to it.  I'm sure there's something in the code of professional medical ethics that discourages physicians from "sharing" patients in this manner, but it doesn't especially bother me, because besides being used to it, I find that medical professionals, while they probe, they don't probe beyond the boundaries of decency and good manners.

"The enunciation is perfect; every word, every syllable, clear and distinct."

The second physician was of course talking about my speech.

Now, I greatly hesitate to describe my speech as "perfect," not least because I've never heard it--I am aware, for example, that while a hearing person can jam 100+ words into a minute, I'm usually odometered at circa 40, and that the tonal qualities of the voice resemble the Platte River; flat, broad, and shallow.

And the irksome inability to pronounce the short "e" sound (the most common sound in spoken English), which means of course I cannot even pronounce my own name correctly, much less all other words with that sound.

But this physician was impressed nonetheless.

I've always been curious, but never thought to ask.

What do deaf people sound like, when they talk?

I always got the impression it was either chirrupy or mumbly.

Illuminate me, please.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Chris

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 09:07:08 PM »
The few times I've heard deaf people that could speak, they sounded drunk (slurred speech) or mentally deficient (completely unintelligible).  'Mumbly' is a pretty good description.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 09:10:57 PM »
The few times I've heard deaf people that could speak, they sounded drunk (slurred speech) or mentally deficient (completely unintelligible).  'Mumbly' is a pretty good description.

I'm guessing too they're not keeping eye-contact while speaking.

When I underwent speech therapy as a junior in college, that was the hardest thing to do--it took ages, and relentless practice--but once it was overcome, the rest was a piece of cake.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline IassaFTots

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 09:11:56 PM »
Same what Chris said.  And, well that brings me to a few questions, if you don't mind.  I "assumed" that you have been deaf since birth, and with that being said, spoke in ASL.  I am curious, if that isn't the case, which it seems to me now, how you know how to speak, and do you listen by reading mouths then?  The human body is amazing in it's adaption.  Please forgive if I am being too inquisitive.
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Offline Chris

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2010, 09:19:22 PM »
The last time I encountered anyone that was deaf was during high school.  Your speech therapy probably helped a great deal from what it would have been a few years earlier.  It's been a while and I haven't met anyone personally.  My recent experience was from watching a girl on YouTube... her speech was a little slurred and if you didn't know she was deaf, one probably would have assumed she had some other physical problems (a cleft palate or something similar).
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Offline franksolich

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2010, 09:22:03 PM »
Same what Chris said.  And, well that brings me to a few questions, if you don't mind.  I "assumed" that you have been deaf since birth, and with that being said, spoke in ASL.  I am curious, if that isn't the case, which it seems to me now, how you know how to speak, and do you listen by reading mouths then?  The human body is amazing in it's adaption.  Please forgive if I am being too inquisitive.

I have been deaf since birth; no ears.....but plenty of good hair to disguise that absence.

The parents forbade me to be taught sign language, as they feared it would limit my world (and they were probably right).  I came up the rough-and-tumble way, and had to figure out things myself.  The "downside" is the lifetime of intense stress and tension (and a bloody ucler), but on the flip side of the coin, I'm out here in the real world, with everybody else.

Until I was a junior in college, I avoided eye-contact, mumbled, and stuttered and stammered (didn't lisp, though) at lot.

I "listen" by following body language (lip-reading is an art, not a science, and prone to misinterpretations).  With as much experience as I've had in life, I can even write the "script" of a conversation with someone even before the conversation gets underway.

Of course, that's far from perfect too; I tend to jump to a lot of conclusions, make a lot of assumptions, that are disastrously wrong.  It's all mental gymnastics, and sometimes I fall flat.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Inga

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2010, 11:12:53 PM »
Frank I've had several friends in my life that were deaf.And it does sound like they slurred their words. But I was as intrigued with them as they were with me. But we got along great. I always helped them to feel comfortable with me and tried to treat them like anyone else.

I'm a little concerned with the bleeding ulcer. Have you checked to see if you might have H. Pylori?If so you might try Mastic gum in a capsule. Eat more cabbage, of any kind and if they may be a health store , look for L-Glutamine 500-1000mg on an empty stomach.This would heal the lining of the stomach.

Also, speaking of doctors and their counterparts.I've noticed of the regular doctor is out on vacation then he counterpart would  step in until he came back.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2010, 10:25:20 AM »
I've known 2 deaf people in the past. One was profoundly deaf. Essentially she could not articulate words, just odd noises. It was very difficult to communicate with her.
The other girl, who was an absolute knock out (she was the kind of beauty that diden't need to use makeup, and she diden't), had some hearing. She could use, at the time (late 80's), a pair of microphones to amplify sounds. She sounded monotone and coulden't inflect correctly. However, after listening to her a few times I got used to her speech, so understanding wasen't difficult.
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Offline Texacon

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 10:38:24 AM »
frank, as you know my wife in an interpreter for the deaf so ... I've been around a lot of deaf folks.  Some had 'pretty' good language skills but they tend to be rather nasally sounding.  Most speak as if they are closing off the nasal passages, perhaps to feel the sound better.

The ones who use ASL primarily tend to 'pop' when they speak.  Most were taught to 'speak' in that fashion.  As such they aren't really speaking words so much as punctuating what they are saying through sign.

The ones I've been around who speak well tend to be very shy about speaking but I think that is a tendency of the deaf ... most seem rather paranoid and feel the hearing around them are talking about them. 

None of the statements above are meant to be broad brush type statements though.  I've met a full spectrum of deaf folks. 

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Offline franksolich

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »
I've known 2 deaf people in the past. One was profoundly deaf. Essentially she could not articulate words, just odd noises. It was very difficult to communicate with her.

This is where I got the impression perhaps some, if not most, of the deaf use a chirrupy sound when speaking, although this is based solely upon sheer speculation.

When I worked for the Nebraska Department of Health, I took coffee breaks in the basement, along with a physician, because one could at the time smoke down there.

The Nebraska Department of Revenue then had the abominable policy of hiring deaf people to work during the state income-tax season; it probably helped on their "affirmative action" "goals," but really, they were just warm bodies temporarily on the payroll, punching keys on a keyboard.

In other words, no intention, no intention at all, of "integrating" or "mainstreaming" them into the real-life workforce; no intention at all of discerning their unusual skills and talents that would add a great deal to a hearing workforce.

I used to watch them, from the other end of the break-room.

Their wildly-extravagant pantomimes, their exaggerated facial expessions, &c., &c., &c.

I got the impression they made a lot of chirrupy noises because other people in the break-room tended to sit far away from them, as if avoiding noise they found irksome.

Quote
The other girl, who was an absolute knock out (she was the kind of beauty that didn't need to use makeup, and she didn't), had some hearing. She could use, at the time (late 80's), a pair of microphones to amplify sounds. She sounded monotone and couldn't inflect correctly. However, after listening to her a few times I got used to her speech, so understanding wasn't difficult.

Yeah, monotone's a flaw of mine too; whether laid back and mellow or all agitated jumping up and down getting red-white-and-blue in the face, I've been told my voice remains low and even, no ups and downs in it.

As for "inflection," I assume you mean which syllable gets the stress put upon it; for me, it's a roll of the dice.  I just guess.  Sometimes I guess right, sometimes I guess wrong.  My enunciation of "Binghampton" (as in the city in upstate New York) apparently is one classic, although I have no idea why.

As for being understood, Ronald Reagan was president the last time I can recall someone asking me to repeat something.  There's lots of people used to my voice, and they take it as if reading a book, rather than hearing to a comment.

The only people from whom I've ever gotten grief--in my whole entire life--for my speech have been Democats, liberals, and primitives.  Decent and civilized people, running the gamut from old church ladies to young veterinarians, from physicians to garbage men, from farmers to patrons in a jazz bar, from Republicans to those in the ministry (Roman Catholic, Protestant, Judaism, Islam), from eye-grabbing young women to hunchbacks, from college football players to ballerinas, &c., &c., &c., all seem to immediately understand there's an invisible problem here (deafness), and so quickly and easily adapt.

I've always said it's a very good thing Chief S itting Bull, the bird-smacking stoned red-faced primitive, and I have never met each other, and I mean it.  I know his type.  Within seconds of my speaking, Chief S itting Bull would be rolling and thrashing on the floor, spastic-like jerks, his head ready to explode in apoplexy, furious and angry that I sound the way I do.

Trust me; I know Chief S itting Bull's type.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 10:59:43 AM »
It doesn't bother me if someone is deaf, we likely couldn't communicate all that well though without a keyboard. heh.

Offline franksolich

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 11:15:31 AM »
The ones I've been around who speak well tend to be very shy about speaking but I think that is a tendency of the deaf ... most seem rather paranoid and feel the hearing around them are talking about them.

I don't think they're really paranoid about other people talking about them; I think they're just confused, but of course that's my reaction, and the mileage may vary.

Also, in a perverse way, we actually enjoy being wallflowers, observing others while we ourselves are unobserved.  This pertains to the being shy about speaking part of your comment.

I've done a lot of public speaking (and even acting in plays) ever since a young lad, even before I underwent intensive speech therapy (which of course then improved manners considerably).  Coming from the family I did, lecture and acting skills emerged naturally as if there was no hindrance at all.

I've delivered lots and lots of eulogies at funerals; I always wondered about this, because there's a lot of people with better speaking skills than myself, but I've been told I was chosen because I'm speaking "from something deeper and more everlasting than" myself.

That, I suspect, is because of the "exercises" I was taught to do in speech therapy, using the 1542 Anglican Book of Common Prayer and the 1927 version of the King James Bible, which professional speech therapists have found most useful, especially in the case of those recovering from strokes.   It would burn the primitives on Skins's island if they only knew how many state-sponsored speech therapy clinics keep religious matter as one of their resources.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline debk

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2010, 11:30:14 AM »
I'm curious....

Was the other doctor in there in a consulting capacity, to "know" as a patient, or just to observe you speak?

The first two...I don't have a problem with.

The last reason....if it was just to observe you speak.....why?
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Offline franksolich

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2010, 11:50:10 AM »
I'm curious....

Was the other doctor in there in a consulting capacity, to "know" as a patient, or just to observe you speak?

The first two...I don't have a problem with.

The last reason....if it was just to observe you speak.....why?

It's never been uncommon for me.

I'm sure that most physicians wouldn't do such a thing, showing an "unusual" patient to another--no way--unless the first physician knew the patient very well, and knew that it's meaningless to the patient, whether he's shown off or not.

If an orthopaedic surgeon wanted to show off his craftsmanship in replacing my now-absent right elbow, I have no problem with it.

Most people would, and so I can't see this happening a whole lot, and probably "never" in many instances.

However, I myself have never cared; it's a part of life.

In this instance, the second physician is also a dermatologist, and since they travel around a great deal to various hospitals and clinics in northeastern Nebraska, and since my former "second" dermatologist retired (the one I used to see if the main one was not available), this was probably a casual "get acquainted with him" thing.

Given the utter professionalism, I'm sure that if I objected, it wouldn't happen, but I've never felt any reason to object.
apres moi, le deluge

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Offline Wineslob

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2010, 12:42:12 PM »
Quote
some, if not most, of the deaf use a chirrupy sound when speaking

Most of the deaf I've encountered have more or less made "uhhh" "ahhhh" sounds, which, unfortunately can sound like a retarded person. (sorry for being non-PC)
The interesting thing with the profoundly deaf gal, she loved to crank the stereo in her car. I mean LOUD. I asked her (we would converse with notes) if she could "hear" the stereo. She said she liked the bass notes vibrating the entire car, which it did.


Quote
Yeah, monotone's a flaw of mine too; whether laid back and mellow or all agitated jumping up and down getting red-white-and-blue in the face, I've been told my voice remains low and even, no ups and downs in it.

I wouldn't call it a flaw. The fact that you CAN communicate well is kudos to you.




Quote
As for "inflection," I assume you mean which syllable gets the stress put upon it; for me, it's a roll of the dice.  I just guess.  Sometimes I guess right, sometimes I guess wrong.



Correct.


I aways found the deaf that we had working for us (3 at one time) to be fascinating. It was a good lesson in seeing what it was like to live in a different "world".
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Offline franksolich

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2010, 01:43:43 PM »
Most of the deaf I've encountered have more or less made "uhhh" "ahhhh" sounds, which, unfortunately can sound like a retarded person. (sorry for being non-PC)

As you might guess from comments I make in writing, I do that in real life while speaking, too, this "uh" bit.

"Doug's ex-wife is a little, uh, short in the cerebral department."

It's usually because one's trying to remember the right word or it could be a natural hesitation because of insecurity.

In the first instance, hearing people might hear, for example, the word "extravagant" hundreds of times a day, and so they get "programmed" to remember the word for the rest of their lives; it comes out of them with no intellectual effort at all.

We on the other hand have to keep a mental "dictionary" always open inside the head, and the "uh" thing happens because we're flipping through the pages, and not yet finding the word.  One can discern this in my writing, which is a reflection of my real-life speaking, when for example I use "veranda." 

Using exotic words in my case is NOT due to a vast vocabulary, but rather due to that I'm not finding, in this example, "porch" or "stoop" in that mental dictionary, and so I'm desperately grabbing the first word that is at least remotely similar in meaning.

The "uh" could be--and probably is, in the majority of cases--a sense of inadequacy or insecurity.  In real life, I ask direct questions and usually get direct answers, but I'm hesitant to answer a direct question directly, which makes me a bete noire of, especially, attorneys.

(This is alleviated mostly by taking a private sworn deposition; less time and trouble for all involved.)

Essentially, the deal is, deaf people distrust spoken communication.  On one hand, we tend to be leery of it because we don't know how to use it with much skill, and on the other hand, we tend to discount its importance because we ourselves seem to get along okay without it.

Quote
The interesting thing with the profoundly deaf gal, she loved to crank the stereo in her car. I mean LOUD. I asked her (we would converse with notes) if she could "hear" the stereo. She said she liked the bass notes vibrating the entire car, which it did.

Of course.  Sitting in an enclosed automobile, all windows shut, the bass turned to maximum, and the volume turned up as high as the loudspeakers can bear (I've blown out loudspeakers before), is the closest thing one can come to one of those wholly dark little soundproof rooms in audiology clinics.

If one has sensitive joints and appendages, it's a great way to "hear."

I do this late at night any time from Thanksgiving to New Year's Day, any chance I get, with National Public Radio, aimlessly driving through the Sandhills of Nebraska, hoping to catch some harpsichord or violin music of the seasonal nature.  (Wind and percussion music are usually blank white spots.)

Because I'm a nice guy, though, I don't do this when other people or the cats are riding with me; only when I'm alone.

Quote
I aways found the deaf that we had working for us (3 at one time) to be fascinating. It was a good lesson in seeing what it was like to live in a different "world".

You have little idea how different it is.

It's an alternative universe, with very little overlap into the hearing world.

My biggest problem in real life is this: deaf people have to evaluate other people based upon what other people do, while hearing people evaluate other people based upon what other people say.

And so sometimes our opinions of who is a "good" person and who is a "bad" person sharply differ, sometimes acrimoniously so.

It can get really violent, this difference.

You might notice there is a sense of aloof arrogance in the deaf (I know of no exceptions), which probably stems from this.  Since we judge people by what they do, rather than what they say, we know we're better judges of character than hearing people seduced by nice words.

(Now ask me why I loathe the primitives on Skins's island so much; hypocrites.)

Even the most Milquetoastish of the deaf have that arrogant streak in them.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Wineslob

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2010, 02:11:36 PM »
Frank, thank you for the insight.     :bow:



Oh, one thing, the profoundly deaf woman could only make the "odd noises" (they didn't bother me, but some found it uncomfortable, why, I donno). She would try to ummm....supplement herself when "speaking". She could not utter any recognizable words. However it never impeded her ability to "talk" with me. In a sense I had to learn to communicate with her. I think I found the challenge interesting/fascinating.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 02:24:28 PM by Wineslob »
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

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Offline debk

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2010, 04:36:56 PM »
As you might guess from comments I make in writing, I do that in real life while speaking, too, this "uh" bit.

It's usually because one's trying to remember the right word or it could be a natural hesitation because of insecurity.


The "uh" could be--and probably is, in the majority of cases--a sense of inadequacy or insecurity. 
(This is alleviated mostly by taking a private sworn deposition; less time and trouble for all involved.)



Sorry, I chopped up your post quite a bit, but I wanted to just address the "uh".

Hearing people use it all the time too....for exactly the same reasons.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: what do we sound like?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2010, 08:47:16 PM »
Quote
If an orthopaedic surgeon wanted to show off his craftsmanship in replacing my now-absent right elbow, I have no problem with it.
Holy Crap! You're missing an elbow as well Frank? :o
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