primitives discuss cleaning seeds

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x3082

Oh my.

bluevoter4life (262 posts)        Thu Jan-07-10 02:48 PM
Original message

A question for all farmers out there

I recently saw the movie "Food Inc.". Needless to say, it scared the hell out of me. But I would like to ask a question: Living in the city, I have no knowledge of the operations of a farm. Can someone tell me exactly what "seed cleaning" is, how it is performed, and why companies such as Monsanto oppose this practice? Thanks.

Vincardog  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-07-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message

1. Seed cleaning is exactly what it sounds like. You take (from your harvest) and clean out everything except the seeds. Monsanto and the rest of the Agribusiness companies do NOT WANT you to keep and use your own seeds. They want to force you to by their seeds. That way they can control what you plant and whether or not you can survive.

handmade34  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-07-10 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. it should scare you

...seed cleaning is merely separating the good seed from debris and weed seed, drying and storing it properly... the thing that all good farmers used to do to have good seed to plant for next year.

JoDog (997 posts)      Thu Jan-07-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
 
3. Hopefully, someone with more experience with the process will chime in with more info, but here's the basic answer:

Seed cleaning is an essential step in seed saving. In traditional agriculture, farmers would set aside part of their harvests to use as seed for the next planting season. However, most seeds can't be taken right out of the plant and put in storage. They must be dried properly, separated from dust and bugs, and then stored. Seed cleaning services would do this for the farmer for a small fee.

Monsanto's problem with the practice is that all the seed they sell contains patented, propriatary GMO components. When a farmer buys the seed, they essentially buy a license to use those genetic modifications--but for that season only. With each subsequent season, they must pay for more seed to get the ad hoc licensing. Often, farmers must sign contracts with Monsanto promising not to use seed from the GMO crops. Monsanto doesn't even like having fields of crops without their genetics in fields next to their GMO because pollen from the GMO crop could fertilize the natural crop, allowing the neighbor farmer to "steal" (their word) their patented technology.

Monsanto went after the gentleman in the film because, according to them, his service would encourage farmers to use save and use seed year after year without license. It was of course bull, but he couldn't afford to fight a long court battle, and they knew that at the start.

Tumbulu  (817 posts)     Sun Jan-10-10 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. I have a seed cleaner

It consists of a series of screens and fans and the way one sets up the screens allows one to get rid of weed seeds and vegetable matter that get picked up along with harvested seed from a combine.

Mine is pretty small. It takes me about an hour to clean 50 lbs of seed up.

Most plant breeders have their own seed cleaners and some farmers do as well.

[Lord Undies]

When I read your thread title I though maybe the Little Goons were going to promote reusable condoms again.

[Carl]

They really don`t understand much of how the world works.
Most corn seeds are hybrids of some variety that have been cross bred for desirable results...bigger ears,more standability of the plant and so on.
A seed company does not simply plant fields of corn and walk away to let some be harvested for consumption and others for reproduction.

Corn for seed is grown specifically for that purpose.
It requires detasseling a certain amount of the field.
http://www.teamcorn.com/aboutdetasseling.shtml

One could save seed from a previous crop to be replanted but in doing so would lose the desirable features that have been crossbred.

The same can be said with garden vegetable seeds and why there are so many varieties of tomatoes,squash etc.
Any hybrid will revert in a matter of a few years to the base plants it was derived from.

[BlueStateSaint]

When I read your thread title I though maybe the Little Goons were going to promote reusable condoms again.

I am glad you're back, Undies!

[Karin]

That way they can control what you plant and whether or not you can survive.

  Cue scary, overwrought, dramatic music.....

I don't know much about this stuff.  If I saved the seeds out of my halloween pumpkin, are they likely to be useless if I tried to plant them? 

[franksolich]

Cue scary, overwrought, dramatic music.....

I don't know much about this stuff.  If I saved the seeds out of my halloween pumpkin, are they likely to be useless if I tried to plant them?

No, it wouldn't be useless.

But as our esteemed friend Carl said, over time, if the original pumpkins were grown from hybrid seeds, by the third or fourth generation, the pumpkins you'd be getting would be more like the pumpkins which formed the hybrid--smaller, greener, tougher, or some other undesireable features.

[Carl]

  Cue scary, overwrought, dramatic music.....

I don't know much about this stuff.  If I saved the seeds out of my halloween pumpkin, are they likely to be useless if I tried to plant them? 

They will grow into something although it may not be the same variety of pumpkin you saved them from.
All goes back to dominant and recessive genes and how the seeds were pollinated.

[IassaFTots]

They will grow into something although it may not be the same variety of pumpkin you saved them from.
All goes back to dominant and recessive genes and how the seeds were pollinated.

Carl, I have a question.  Sometime within the last year, I was watching a show, either on Discovery, or Science...can't remember the show, and can't remember the channel.  Anyway, the discussion was on seeds.  I believe it was a show about some type of weather-related apocalypse, and how it was important to maintain a selection of heirloom seeds, and keep them in a place where they would stay safe and warm.  I don't remember the whole thing, but it was mentioned that hybrid ones, that we have developed were far less likely to produce what we want. 

Does any of that make any sense?

[franksolich]

Carl, I have a question.  Sometime within the last year, I was watching a show, either on Discovery, or Science...can't remember the show, and can't remember the channel.  Anyway, the discussion was on seeds.  I believe it was a show about some type of weather-related apocalypse, and how it was important to maintain a selection of heirloom seeds, and keep them in a place where they would stay safe and warm.  I don't remember the whole thing, but it was mentioned that hybrid ones, that we have developed were far less likely to produce what we want. 

Does any of that make any sense?

In case Carl doesn't see this, yes, it does.

There's some sort of superbig underground vault in the frozen north of Norway, where are kept varieties of seeds for use in such a contingency.

[IassaFTots]

In case Carl doesn't see this, yes, it does.

There's some sort of superbig underground vault in the frozen north of Norway, where are kept varieties of seeds for use in such a contingency.

Yeah, that rings a bell.  I wonder who gets to get those seeds???  The winner?

[Carl]

Carl, I have a question.  Sometime within the last year, I was watching a show, either on Discovery, or Science...can't remember the show, and can't remember the channel.  Anyway, the discussion was on seeds.  I believe it was a show about some type of weather-related apocalypse, and how it was important to maintain a selection of heirloom seeds, and keep them in a place where they would stay safe and warm.  I don't remember the whole thing, but it was mentioned that hybrid ones, that we have developed were far less likely to produce what we want. 

Does any of that make any sense?

An original hybrid seed should at least for one growing season.
If they are less resilient to storage then a non hybrid I can`t answer,simply don`t know on that.

If the cross breeding doesn`t continue eventually there will be some hybrids reproduced but an ever increasing number of the individual strains.

It is the gene A and gene a chart.
The hybrid is Aa but subsequent generations will result in fewer combinations then the one forced.

A hybrid reproductive pairing chart.

[IassaFTots]

Thanks Carl.  Maybe it wasn't the storage resiliency so much as the longevity of production of the original seed. 

Your explanation makes a lot of sense.  I get it now. 

[Tucker]

First thing I thought of when I saw the title was the DUmmy's sitting on the floor, legs crossed and cleaning their pot.

[BlueStateSaint]

An original hybrid seed should at least for one growing season.
If they are less resilient to storage then a non hybrid I can`t answer,simply don`t know on that.

If the cross breeding doesn`t continue eventually there will be some hybrids reproduced but an ever increasing number of the individual strains.

It is the gene A and gene a chart.
The hybrid is Aa but subsequent generations will result in fewer combinations then the one forced.

A hybrid reproductive pairing chart.

Punnett charts . . . you're giving me flashbacks of college!

[Specbid]

Punnett charts . . . you're giving me flashbacks of college!

Looks like a small football pool to me...that reminds me, have to get my Superbowl money in. 

[GOBUCKS]

I've replanted seed from hybrids before that were nearly useless, even the first replanting. I'm sure they aren't all like that, and I don't know the genetics, but I wouldn't gamble on it again, when it only costs a few bucks to get guaranteed results.