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Offline SVPete

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Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« on: December 19, 2009, 10:49:30 AM »
Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
By Garrison Keillor
The Baltimore Sun
December 16, 2009
Quote
You can blame Ralph Waldo Emerson for the brazen foolishness of the elite. He preached here at the First Church of Cambridge, a Unitarian outfit (where I discovered that "Silent Night" has been cleverly rewritten to make it more about silence and night and not so much about God) ...
...
Unitarians listen to the Inner Voice and so they have no creed that they all stand up and recite in unison, and that's their perfect right, but it is wrong, wrong, wrong to rewrite "Silent Night." If you don't believe Jesus was God, OK, go write your own damn "Silent Night" and leave ours alone. This is spiritual piracy and cultural elitism, and we Christians have stood for it long enough. And all those lousy holiday songs by Jewish guys that trash up the malls every year, Rudolph and the chestnuts and the rest of that dreck. Did one of our guys write "Grab your loafers, come along if you wanna, and we'll blow that shofar for Rosh Hashanah"? No, we didn't.

Christmas is a Christian holiday - if you're not in the club, then buzz off. Celebrate Yule instead or dance around in druid robes for the solstice.
Geeeeeez La--Weeeeeez, what a seriously bilious splenetic rant! I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the possibility that Keillor considers anything sacred. Is he a gnat-straining camel-swallower? Or do I just not know enough about him?
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 10:58:32 AM »
It's fun to punch Unitarians in the throat.

Just tell them that's YOUR inner voice.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 11:16:29 AM »
Denying standards and absolutes can have interesting consequences when those around you do the same ... and act on that conviction. Such denial is only tenable when few around you are of that same conviction.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 11:23:01 AM »
Quote from: SVPete on December 19, 2009, 11:16:29 AM
Denying standards and absolutes can have interesting consequences when those around you do the same ... and act on that conviction. Such denial is only tenable when few around you are of that same conviction.
It's also internally unsupportable.

They want to be inclusive because to them inclusivity is an absolute imperative. If unis were consistent they would have to accept you after you punch them in the throat.
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Offline SilverOrchid

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 05:34:20 PM »
I don't understand the point of the Unitarian church.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 06:22:59 PM »
Quote from: SilverOrchid on December 19, 2009, 05:34:20 PM
I don't understand the point of the Unitarian church.
Arrogance masked by aires of humility.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 10:23:58 PM »
Quote from: SilverOrchid on December 19, 2009, 05:34:20 PM
I don't understand the point of the Unitarian church.

As I understand it, they are essentially the sort of church where "all spiritual paths lead to God". 
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2009, 09:01:49 AM »
Good Q, SO. My guess, taking U-U's seriously as human beings, is that they satisfy (or at least appease) their desire to have some sense of purpose and understanding of their existence, in a roll-your-own philosophy that makes minimal demands on their behavior and makes few truth claims (which intrinsically assert that other things are false).

Less seriously, I suspect that:

A.) More U-U's believe in UFOs than believe in the existence of god(s);

B.) More U-U's believe they are UFOs than believe in the existence of god(s) that are persons apart from creation.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2009, 10:04:05 AM »
Quote from: SilverOrchid on December 19, 2009, 05:34:20 PM
I don't understand the point of the Unitarian church.

Read some of Oswald Spengler's The Decline of the West, particularly as regards the fellaheen.  Universalist Unitarians are fellaheen.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2009, 10:17:53 AM »
GK is yet another embarrassing MN export.
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Offline zeitgeist

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 10:47:18 AM »
Quote from: bkg on December 20, 2009, 10:17:53 AM
GK is yet another embarrassing MN export.

Well, since you opened the door.......




Governor Jesse, The Mind, Ventura (S) Lake Woebegone, MN. 

Proof them cow farmers get stiff on the silage.
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Offline Ladywinter

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 08:58:05 PM »
Quote from: zeitgeist on December 20, 2009, 10:47:18 AM
Well, since you opened the door.......




Governor Jesse, The Mind, Ventura (S) Lake Woebegone, MN. 

Proof them cow farmers get stiff on the silage.

Oh man...LOL!!!

You know while on this subject.  And maybe a bit off topic - BUT why is it that the Christians are being singled out??  Our beliefs, our Holy days, our Christmas music, Christmas displays, changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, etc. When and WHY has this become PC to do so?  And...not so PC to even utter a single annoyance about the Muslim faith that seems to be spreading here in the USofA?   

This peeves me...
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Offline bkg

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 09:03:14 PM »
Quote from: Ladywinter on December 20, 2009, 08:58:05 PM
Oh man...LOL!!!

You know while on this subject.  And maybe a bit off topic - BUT why is it that the Christians are being singled out??  Our beliefs, our Holy days, our Christmas music, Christmas displays, changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, etc. When and WHY has this become PC to do so?  And...not so PC to even utter a single annoyance about the Muslim faith that seems to be spreading here in the USofA?   

This peeves me...

To be fair, Jesus did say it would happen this way. ;)

And to be fair to Jesse - he is a freak in many ways, but he did more good for this state than bad. Unfortunately, few remember that... our vehicle tabs were, in some cases, 1/10th the cost under his watch.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2009, 09:22:02 PM »
Quote from: Ladywinter on December 20, 2009, 08:58:05 PM
Oh man...LOL!!!

You know while on this subject.  And maybe a bit off topic - BUT why is it that the Christians are being singled out??  Our beliefs, our Holy days, our Christmas music, Christmas displays, changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, etc. When and WHY has this become PC to do so?  And...not so PC to even utter a single annoyance about the Muslim faith that seems to be spreading here in the USofA?   

Quote
Why There is a "War on Christmas"
Posted by Michael Avitablile
Published: December 20, 2009 - 11:58 AM
As I have grown older, I have seen a greater departure from the word "Christmas" around the very season that was named for it. Instead, the ubiquitous word "holiday" has taken its place, or the more egregious "Season's Greeting." Of course, by using the word "holiday," people refer to Christmas without actually saying the word.

Now, without a doubt this is going on. But the question at hand is why. Many people will say that the loss of the word "Christmas" is the left trying to take religion and Jesus Christ out of the holiday. Others will say that it is American culture as a whole that is moving away from religion. And more, others will say that it is the repression of Christian culture.

While these may very well be true, I postulate a different reason for why there is a War on Christmas. The reason is as simple and complex as this: fear.

How many times have you had this happen to you? Someone will say "Happy Holidays" to you, and you respond "Merry Christmas;" the person, in response, will normally smile and say "Merry Christmas" back. This has happened to me a good dozen times over the last couple of years. But it begs the question, why exactly don't they say "Merry Christmas" in the first place.

This is a perfect example of fear. People have grown overly-acute to offending others. People will say "Happy Holidays" because they fear the unknown, such as "what will happen if I say Merry Christmas to someone who doesn't celebrate?" People are scared of being identified as a person who isn't sensitive to other religions. People are scared of having pride in the very culture they live in. Instead of realizing that it is not offensive to say "Merry Christmas," many have become sheep and simply say "Happy Holidays" instead.

But in this is another problem with over-sensitivity. If you wish a Merry Christmas to a Jewish person, it takes no effort at all to say, "Oh, excuse me, Happy Hanukkah." Is that so hard?

The truth of the matter is, this fear is wide-spread. People correct themselves and stop themselves from saying Merry Christmas in favor of Happy Holidays. How many times have you heard someone say, "Well have a," then pause, and finally say, "Happy Holiday?" I've seen it too many times, for my taste.
Quote
Wizbang

I think the bold part above hits the nail on the head.  Many people are afraid of offending people.  Screw'em. It's Christmas, I'll say Merry Christmas.
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Offline Ladywinter

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2009, 09:24:58 PM »
Quote from: bkg on December 20, 2009, 09:03:14 PM
To be fair, Jesus did say it would happen this way. ;)

I know, I just never thought I'd see this happening in my lifetime.  Scary.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 08:08:17 AM »
Quote
And maybe a bit off topic - BUT why is it that the Christians are being singled out??  Our beliefs, our Holy days, our Christmas music, Christmas displays, changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, etc. When and WHY has this become PC to do so?
Part of the story is that it's safe ... we don't hack off people's heads (not that I'm going to go out and buy a machete).
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 08:14:17 AM »
Quote from: SVPete on December 21, 2009, 08:08:17 AM
Part of the story is that it's safe ... we don't hack off people's heads (not that I'm going to go out and buy a machete).

Speak for yourself.  Why, just this weekend I hacked up a group of hindus for not wishing me a Merry Christmas...  :naughty:
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 09:19:55 AM »
Quote from: Ladywinter on December 20, 2009, 08:58:05 PM
Oh man...LOL!!!

You know while on this subject.  And maybe a bit off topic - BUT why is it that the Christians are being singled out??  Our beliefs, our Holy days, our Christmas music, Christmas displays, changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, etc. When and WHY has this become PC to do so?  And...not so PC to even utter a single annoyance about the Muslim faith that seems to be spreading here in the USofA?   

This peeves me...

Because we are still the majority, so it is okay to discriminate against us.  I think something like 83% of Americans are self-identified Christians, which means somebody saying "Merry Christmas" has the odds of their side.  But, there is such a fear of "offending" the other 17%, and some of the minority are very vocal in their offense, that people start making rules against displays of Christianity.  What is funny is that our Holiday really is the most important to our faith out of all the December holidays that I know of.  Channakah is a fairly minor holiday, from what I understand, in the Jewish faith.  It became a big commercialized deal in the US about a hundred years ago, if I remember correctly.  Eid-al-Adha is fairly minor Muslim holiday, and Kwanzaa was made up a few decades ago. 

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Offline Chump

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 09:20:34 AM »
Quote
How many times have you had this happen to you? Someone will say "Happy Holidays" to you, and you respond "Merry Christmas;" the person, in response, will normally smile and say "Merry Christmas" back. This has happened to me a good dozen times over the last couple of years. But it begs the question, why exactly don't they say "Merry Christmas" in the first place.

Happened to me yesterday while shopping for a present for my grandma.  The women behind the counter actually thanked me for saying it, because store policy is that they're to say "Happy Holidays" unless the customer first says, "Merry Christmas."  But there's no war on Christmas.  Not at all.
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 10:50:31 AM »
Quote from: DefiantSix on December 21, 2009, 08:14:17 AM
Speak for yourself.  Why, just this weekend I hacked up a group of hindus for not wishing me a Merry Christmas...  :naughty:
Unless you barbequed and ate them with a good beer i'm not impressed! :-)
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2009, 10:52:29 AM »
Quote from: Toastedturningtidelegs on December 21, 2009, 10:50:31 AM
Unless you barbequed and ate them with a good beer i'm not impressed! :-)

Well - now that you mention it - I did fire up the barby last night...
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Offline Daisy

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2009, 01:54:44 PM »
Good grief!! I'm Jewish. When someone says Merry Christmas to me I say Merry Christmas back to them. It would never occur to me to say Happy Hanukkah back to them, That would be stupid. I could give many reasons for that, but you get the point.

As for Garrison Keilor, I never got his schick anyway. Sounds like he's an anti semite. It's been suggested that he was drunk when he said that. Well, when the booze goes in the truth comes out.
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Offline Ladywinter

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2009, 03:50:39 PM »
Quote from: Daisy on December 21, 2009, 01:54:44 PM
Well, when the booze goes in the truth comes out.

Lol.  So true!  If you really want to know what someone is thinking - just get them "liquored up"...oh boy. :cheers1:
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2009, 04:20:38 PM »
Quote from: SVPete on December 19, 2009, 10:49:30 AM
Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
By Garrison Keillor
The Baltimore Sun
December 16, 2009Geeeeeez La--Weeeeeez, what a seriously bilious splenetic rant! I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the possibility that Keillor considers anything sacred. Is he a gnat-straining camel-swallower? Or do I just not know enough about him?

The only thing sacred to Garrison Keillor is Garrison Keillor. Ever hear him read poetry? The man is absolutely in love with himself.
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Offline txted

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Re: Garrison Keillor -- Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2009, 06:56:00 PM »
I loved the photo of Jesse Ventura. As a Texan, I don't feel qualified to comment on how well he served Minnesota as Governor. Most people seem to agree that he was a decent Governor. I am still in shock that they elected the court jester to the senate. What ever happened to the concept that court jesters were supposed to entertain, not rule.

I finished reading a book by Marcus Luttrell this weekend entitled "Sole Survivor". As a conservative, Christian, Navy SEAL; he made the point that most members of the SEAL fraternity are conservative and do believe in God. He even mentioned what he would like to do to the liberals in congress. Near the end of the book, he mentioned the fact that Jesse Ventura is an honorable former SEAL. I think sometimes we confuse the flamboyant, professional wrestler; Jesse Ventura with the honorable, former navy SEAL; Jesse Ventura.

If anyone is interested in more information about Marcus Luttrell, or about how conservative Texans deal with people who shoot dogs click the following link. Listen to the audio of a 911 call Marcus made while chasing four guys who had just shot his dog in the middle of the night at over 100 mph.

http://jcrue.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/marcus-luttrell-on-glen-beck-dog-killed-%C2%BB-right-pundits/

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