Will you be ashamed?

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7107487

The Doctor.  (1000+ posts)          Sun Nov-29-09 02:27 AM
Original message
Will you be ashamed?
   
Edited on Sun Nov-29-09 02:30 AM by The Doctor.
I'm quite serious in asking this question.

We have already seen the predictions of scientists on AGW/Climate Change coming to pass 10 or 20 years sooner than expected. Most of we scientifically literate folks understand what that means. It means that the reality is more dire than the predictions.

Many of you denialists are simply scientifically illiterate. While that is no excuse, there exists a chance you'll be honest with your grandchildren when they ask why you let the catastrophe happen. But you who know what you are doing, those of you who are aware that you don't understand, or worse; do understand yet still fight to prevent solutions from being implemented...

What are you going to tell your grandchildren?

When they have to ask you what salmon tasted like, because they will never know, ever, in their lifetimes.

When they have to look at relocation maps as parts of the world are under water.

When they see pictures of the pretty white beasts called 'polar bears' and ask where are they now.

When they ask you how people could have possibly lived in hurricane-wracked Florida, Texas, and Georgia.

When they don't understand that there was a time when more than 50% of children made it to adulthood.

When they ask if the government always had to ration food so scarcely and if they'd ever know what it was like not to be hungry all the time.

When they look at the differences between the world you enjoyed and the one they have to endure...


When you've seen just how all of these things really did come to pass; because many people with far better understanding of the issue than you could grasp desperately tried to keep the worst of the damage from happening, and you did your best to stop them. After you've looked back at the hundreds of millions of dollars the industries that might lose a few quarter's profit spent to keep you ignorant and reassured obstruction was the right thing to do. And AFTER you read a post on the internet so many years ago about what you would tell your grand-children and quietly, smugly, and to yourself thought, "Well, it's not going to happen, so I don't care." because denial is all you have right now...


What are you going to tell your grandchildren about how you helped create the devastation they live with?

Will you pretend you were on the side of the scientists, or will you admit that you were foolish and ignorant?

Either way, you WILL be ashamed.

Don't forget this post.

Ever.

 

Dreamer Tatum  (1000+ posts)          Sun Nov-29-09 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Unrec for unempirical histrionics
   I will forget this sanctimonious post before I close this window.

The Doctor.  (1000+ posts)          Sun Nov-29-09 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. No, you won't. These things are happening *NOW*.
   To claim this is 'sanctimonious' only displays your complete ignorance. It shows how little you understand, and that you have no grasp for how serious this issue is.

In 50 years, if we do not alter our behavior, the world will not look the same as it does now. There is nothing 'unempirical' about that.

So please, shove your pretentious bullshit.

Off to the races with the "science" of the left...I say it is so and if you question then you are stupid.
Somehow true science seems to get lost within that mindset.

A  post that illustrate how the left wants to enforce group think..

The Doctor.  (1000+ posts)          Sun Nov-29-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
52. I'm shocked at the numbers just in this thread.
   Seriously... I thought I might draw out a few with the ploy, but I'm really disappointed that it snared a bunch of long-timers.

You see, when someone cannot attack the substance of a post, they are left to attack the attitude of the author. Most denialists around here are careful enough not to openly show ignorance of substance lest they become marginalized or TS'd. But give them something else to go after, and they can attack with abandon.

This has been particularly revealing. You seem to be, sadly, quite correct.
   

Long bonfire and worth a look just for humors sake.
Either "The Doctor" is a very clever mole or he is one effed up piece of pompous shit.

[TheSarge]

I'll be PROUD to tell my grandchildren where I was and what I was doing when the great hoax of man made global warming came crumbling down.

I'll be delighted to tell them how I was smart enough not to fall for the mass hysteria created by junk scientists.

And I will tell them in great detail how the house of cards these scientists had created came tumbling down when the emails that revealed their lies and deceit were revealed for the world to see.

[Celtic Rose]

If it is proven that scientists have lied about numbers and statistics regarding "Climate Change" will you be ashamed DUmmy Doctor?  Will you apologize for rejecting those who pushed for more skepticism, as any good scientist should?  Will you apologize for your doom predictions?

[TheSarge]

If it is proven that scientists have lied about numbers and statistics regarding "Climate Change" will you be ashamed DUmmy Doctor?  Will you apologize for rejecting those who pushed for more skepticism, as any good scientist should?  Will you apologize for your doom predictions?

Sounds to me like the arrogant Doc is making a pre-emptive strike against the fallout from the emails.

[terry]

Edweird  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Nov-29-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
81. The earth is approx. 4.5 billion years old. Rapid geological events take place over thousands or
   
tens of thousands of years. Asking for proof of anything over a period of 100 years is either 'scientifically illiterate' or deliberately disingenuous. The earth has changed dramatically many many times since it's origins. I posted the graphs to point out how, despite your arrogant "Look what YOU have done to MY planet!" histrionics, the earth is doing what it normally does. It warms. It cools. The continents shift. The polar ice caps melt. The poles refreeze. Life forms come and go. Sometime they go with rapid mass extinctions. That's just the way it is.

uh oh.. logic

[bkg]

World is warming. Global warming.
World is cooling. Global warming.
Too little snow. Global warming.
Too much snow. Global warming.
Predictions failing. Global warming.
Inability to predict previous patterns. Global warming.
George Bush's elections. Global warming.

blah blah blah blah blah... The good doctors understanding of science - and the basics of the scientific menthods that were taught in Jr. High - is entertaining to me. That he doesn't even know the meaning of the word "sactimonious" is the most entertaining part.

[jukin]

The world's biggest hoax is coming to an end.  The eco-communists have failed but boy did they come close.

Every scientist that fudged the data should never be allowed any access to publishing in any science orientated media again.

[MrsSmith]

Mankind is always full of hubris...and no theory is more so than the idea that we can control the global weather.   

[crockspot]

I heard George Noory the other night say something along the lines of "but there are things happening right now that cannot be denied, such as coastal flooding..."

I have yet to hear of a single coastal city that has been flooded, nor heard even an anecdotal report of someone heading down to a beach they have been going to all their lives and seeing the tide coming in even an inch higher than ever before seen.

[franksolich]

Mankind is always full of hubris...and no theory is more so than the idea that we can control the global weather.   

Yeah, that's one of those things the nocturnally foul one here should learn.

[SilverOrchid]

World is warming. Global warming.
World is cooling. Global warming.
Too little snow. Global warming.
Too much snow. Global warming.
Predictions failing. Global warming.
Inability to predict previous patterns. Global warming.
George Bush's elections. Global warming.

blah blah blah blah blah... The good doctors understanding of science - and the basics of the scientific menthods that were taught in Jr. High - is entertaining to me. That he doesn't even know the meaning of the word "sactimonious" is the most entertaining part.

You forgot Katrina.

[GOBUCKS]

You forgot Katrina.

Also this year's near absence of hurricanes.
Although that could simply be due to Karl Rove's absence from the West Wing.

[ColonialMarine0431]

Climate change data dumped

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece


I deal in facts. Not hyperbole.

[kenth]

Sounds to me like the arrogant Doc is making a pre-emptive strike against the fallout from the emails.

Yep. I wonder if that's Al Gore himself?

[Happy Fun Ball]

Yep. I wonder if that's Al Gore himself?

Well, he does sound sooper, sooper cereal.

[BEG]

I posted this on my FB.....

LINK to NRO article

The Dog Ate My Tree Rings   [Mark Steyn]
The most obvious thing that strikes anyone wading through the CRU documents is how easy it was for a small number of "experts" to propel their data-raped conclusions first into a "peer-reviewed" "consensus" and then up through western governments into the international fait accomplis of Kyoto, the IPCC and now Copenhagen. I initially assumed stuff like this was just a bit of naked obstructionism toward a few troublemakers:

I find it hard to believe that the British Antarctic Survey would permit the deletion of relevant files for two recent publications or that there aren't any backups for the deleted data on institutional servers.

But no, it was systemic. Hysterical queens like Gordon Brown are demanding we introduce global taxation, micro-regulation of every aspect of your life, massive multi-trillion dollar transfers from the productive sector to eco-rackets and transnational bureaucracies, bovine flatulence levies and extraterrestrial surveillance of once sovereign states on the basis of fevered speculations for which there is no raw data:

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years...

The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building...

In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”

The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible*.

No raw data, huh? But why let that stand in your way?

Only Monday, a British parliamentary committee proposed that every citizen be required to carry a carbon card that must be presented, under penalty of law, when buying gasoline, taking an airplane or using electricity. The card contains your yearly carbon ration to be drawn down with every purchase, every trip, every swipe.

But don't worry. It'll all be very scientific. Your carbon allowance numbers will be kept in a big database. Maybe in East Anglia?

(*Or, as Jim Treacher puts it, the science is settled ...at the bottom of the dumpster.)

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

World is warming. Global warming.
World is cooling. Global warming.
Too little snow. Global warming.
Too much snow. Global warming.
Predictions failing. Global warming.
Inability to predict previous patterns. Global warming.
George Bush's elections. Global warming.

blah blah blah blah blah... The good doctors understanding of science - and the basics of the scientific menthods that were taught in Jr. High - is entertaining to me. That he doesn't even know the meaning of the word "sactimonious" is the most entertaining part.

I once posted an article at this very site where GW was blamed for the death of the Loch Ness monster.

Global Warming: What Doesn't It Kill?

[miskie]

I heard George Noory the other night say something along the lines of "but there are things happening right now that cannot be denied, such as coastal flooding..."

I have yet to hear of a single coastal city that has been flooded, nor heard even an anecdotal report of someone heading down to a beach they have been going to all their lives and seeing the tide coming in even an inch higher than ever before seen.

The kooks keep pointing to the arctic sea ice as proof of flooding - Which is idiotic on its face. If all the Ice in the Arctic Sea could melt this very second it wouldn't make a lick of difference to sea levels. All they need to do is look at their middle school science class notes on buoyancy & displacement.

[Mike220]

The Doctor.  (1000+ posts)          Sun Nov-29-09 02:27 AM
Original message
Will you be ashamed?

No.

[Vagabond]

The kooks keep pointing to the arctic sea ice as proof of flooding - Which is idiotic on its face. If all the Ice in the Arctic Sea could melt this very second it wouldn't make a lick of difference to sea levels. All they need to do is look at their middle school science class notes on buoyancy & displacement.

Truth.

It's the Antarctic Ice they would have to worry about.  The problem there is that it is getting colder down there, not hotter.

[vesta111]

  Lets see now, why would I be ashamed to tell my g-g-g grand kids about all the millions of extinct animals that died out due to nature or mankind?   Fact of life, things happen.

Will I be so ashamed of the history of the people that I will hide or burn history books.?

There is allways things that change that we cannot control, when we try often disasters come about.

One cannot change the Mighty Mississippi from changing its course every few days, we cannot controll under sea earth quakes.  How does one or everyone in the world put together controll the weather in any one specific spot and not have unfortunate consequences for other parts of the world.?

Moose Poop, I want to talk to future generations about our achievements on this planet, how we as humans, learned to ADAPT to changes and survived the worse that weather could bring on.

With nothing but a brain we invented things to help us live and thrive in hostil environments.

 Had Adam and Eve nor any of their descendants broken Gods law, we would still be living in the garden of Eden.  No need for anything, comfortable 24/7, no need to use our brains for anything really. No sadness, no reason to get up in the morning or go to bed at night.  No fire, no clothing, no since of ones self-----No Joy.

Let people like that last poster rant about how life is not perfect, why we should even think about changing nature and not instead learn to live and adapt to the changes.

 The challenges we face on earth will be of benefit if we ever get off Planet.

[JohnnyReb]

Problem: Now what are DUmmies supposed to do with their Al Gore carbon credits?

Solution: Burn'em to keep warm.

[vesta111]

Problem: Now what are DUmmies supposed to do with their Al Gore carbon credits?

Solution: Burn'em to keep warm.

Carbon credits my Ass.

Knock at the door and in comes the villiage elders, the men with the knowledge to fix anything. They are worried they will loose control of their people if things do not improve and may be killed themselves if they cannot find a way to get the Gods to produce rain.

For 2 years there has been little rain, the crops will not grow and water is becoming scarce.

They demand your help to force the Gods to produce rain.  You have an 8 year old daughter that is perfect, no scars, moles or spots on her body, she is a delightfull child that may be able to convince the Gods to send the rain to save the lives of hundreds, your family included.

No one family has the right to refuse to sacrifice a child to the Gods if it means society as a whole is in danger.

For thousands of years mankind has tried to manipulate the weather, it did no good. Man has tried to beg barter and scam their Gods with empty promises.

These civilizations have died out, gone into time leaving much mystery.   The civilisations that thieved were the ones like the Eskimo and the lap launders who relied on themselves and thrived.

Man kind has seldom looked at God as a partner in life one to work with.    All Gods are seen as the ultimate authority as is spoken by some men out of the millions of men that God wishes to speak to.   I wonder if instead of asking favors of God we were to work with Him, look to find out how this Planet works, how and why we all have been forced by some instinct to form closed society's except for our own.

Volcanoes blow sky high and cause the sun to be blocked by the air born dirt.

There is more then one reason the Dark Ages were called that.

Jumping of, ideas, sorry, but if one can change the nature of a dog by interbreeding, we should be able to change human nature and the weather.

Trying to be both factual and sarcastic at the same time is difficult.

[Karin]

What a mess over there.  Why do they scramble the threads like that?  It's incoherent.  Anyway, all The Doctor can say is:  Wow, you're so scientifically illiterate and willfully ignorant.  Just Wow. 

I think it's astonishing that the entire Democrat party can be characterized the same way, just by substituting the word "economically" for "scientifically." 

[USA4ME]

Global warming, global cooling, climate change.  Pfffft!!  When these so called scientists have to cover up and delete data and do all they can to silence those that offer alternative evidences, they've automatically lost the battle.  THAT'S your science, Doc primitive.

That reminds me, I think I'll fire up the grill one last time before it gets too cold.

.