Author Topic: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines  (Read 11868 times)

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Offline Crazy Horse

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Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« on: October 11, 2009, 07:03:43 AM »
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Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
By Kerry Picket on Oct. 10, 2009 into Water Cooler

Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said on Tuesday that women would soon serve on submarines reversing a long time ban by the Navy. The Department of Defense :

Appearing on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart,” Mabus signaled that the Navy is moving closer to allowing coed personnel on submarines.

“It will take a little while because you’ve got to interview people and you’ve got to be nuclear trained,” he said, referring to prerequisite steps before a sailor is assigned to a submarine.

Officials previously have cited a lack of privacy and the cost of reconfiguring subs as obstacles to allowing female crewmembers to serve aboard the vessels.

But Mabus is one of several top Navy officials recently to call for an end to the policy. The Navy secretary’s comments yesterday amplify his previous endorsement of ending the ban.

“This is something the [chief of naval operations] and I have been working on since I came into office,” Mabus, who was confirmed as Navy secretary in May, said last week. “We are moving out aggressively on this.

The Clinton administration reviewed the ban on Navy women in submarines ten years ago, but senior Navy officers opposed the idea.  Critics of reversing the ban are likely to cite tight living quarters within the submarine as well as health and security issues which may arise as a result of women becoming pregnant on board a submarine.

Elaine Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness told One News Now:

"In the very early days and weeks of pregnancy, the recycled atmosphere [in a submarine] includes elements that are very unsafe for an unborn child," she notes.

So let's suppose three weeks out [to sea], a married sailor discovers she's pregnant. And the ship commander has two choices -- either [he] violate the stealthy status of the submarine by surfacing for a dangerous evacuation, or he tells her that she will have to remain as she is throughout the deployment. This is an impossible dilemma that can and should be avoided."

Mr. Mabus, a former governor of Mississippi, has given no specifics as to when steps would be taken to allow women to begin serving on Naval submarines.

 :thatsright:

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2009/oct/10/navy-secretary-women-soon-will-serve-submarines/

Let's not just stop at DADT...............WTF
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 07:22:27 AM »
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a result of women becoming pregnant on board a submarine.
When they are at sea for 9+ months at a time...can a preggers gal even fit thru the exit hatch?

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 08:18:21 AM »
When they are at sea for 9+ months at a time...can a preggers gal even fit thru the exit hatch?

It'll be obvious that somebody fit her hatch.
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Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 08:35:45 AM »
I remember that women couldn't be underway after their first trimester.  We had a lot of em get out of deployments that way.

Though I will say it's nice to see how much our new SecNav kows about the submarine force, news to me that all the TM's, RM's, ET's (IC, QM,ET) ST's, MS's, YN's, FT's.....etc  have t be Nuke trained first as a prereq to serve on a boat.............. :thatsright:
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 09:01:31 AM »
As a submariner, let me state for the record:

NOT ONLY NO, BUT **** NO!!!

This is a bad idea on so many levels I don't even know where to start.  I'll pontificate on this later when I have time.
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Offline ironhorsedriver

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 09:06:50 AM »
Be interesting to see how berthing will work. Going to take one hell of an overhaul to allow womens berthing and shower facilities. Don't know about Boomers, but don't Attack boats still hot bunk?

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 09:08:56 AM »
Be interesting to see how berthing will work. Going to take one hell of an overhaul to allow womens berthing and shower facilities. Don't know about Boomers, but don't Attack boats still hot bunk?

Even Tridents have some of the Deck Div non-quals on skids in MCLL.  And yeah, fast boats still (and probably always will) hot bunk.  Believe it or not, 637's were better for habitability than 688's, and 688's are better than Virginia-class boats (shudder).

All I know is, I so would not want to be the COB or XO on that first "tuna boat".
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Offline bkg

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 09:17:21 AM »
The military is the absolutely last place to be PC. This is dumb.

Offline thundley4

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 09:34:00 AM »
Easy solution, just let  a sub have an all gay/female only crew. 


Offline TheSarge

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 10:00:51 AM »
I made a prediction a few months ago that these idiots would start trying to implement what Clinton couldn't when it came to DADT and women on subs.

DACOWITS The Defense Department Advisory Committee on Women in the Services is behind all of it I guarantee you.

They pushed Clinton's social experiment in the military and they are behind it now.  I'd bet my paycheck.

The CNO and SecNav need to go back and research exactly why putting females on subs didn't work last time.

And it mainly revolved around cost.  You'd have to redesign every sub in the fleet and every sub in the design process to accommodate female berthing.  The cost for that is staggering alone.  

Can you imagine a male and female sailor hot bunking?

And the readiness issues due to pregnancy.

This is going to be a freaking mess...that will see Admirals and Sr NCO's who know this isn't a good thing being pushed aside and retired...and yes men who will try to make it happen put in their place.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 10:17:00 AM by TxRadioguy »
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Offline seabelle

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 10:08:02 AM »
Easy solution, just let  a sub have an all gay/female only crew. 



My first thought too  :-)

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 11:22:35 AM »
I made a prediction a few months ago that these idiots would start trying to implement what Clinton couldn't when it came to DADT and women on subs.

DACOWITS The Defense Department Advisory Committee on Women in the Services is behind all of it I guarantee you.

They pushed Clinton's social experiment in the military and they are behind it now.  I'd bet my paycheck.

The CNO and SecNav need to go back and research exactly why putting females on subs didn't work last time.

And it mainly revolved around cost.  You'd have to redesign every sub in the fleet and every sub in the design process to accommodate female berthing.  The cost for that is staggering alone.  

Can you imagine a male and female sailor hot bunking?

And the readiness issues due to pregnancy.

This is going to be a freaking mess...that will see Admirals and Sr NCO's who know this isn't a good thing being pushed aside and retired...and yes men who will try to make it happen put in their place.

It goes beyond that, TRG.  Now I can't speak for today, but I would imagine it was pretty similar to what I had to deal with, so here goes:

Sea/shore rotation is SUPPOSED to be 5 years sea, 3 years shore for the nukes until you hit at least E-7, then you might get 3/3 if you get lucky.  Me, I did 7 1/2 years before I saw my first (and only) shore duty.  Some submarine rates (ET-NAV) are as bad as 5/2.

Now imagine, if you will, a command with about 130-135 people, split into divisions of anywhere between 4 and 14 people.  Take a "small" division, like YN/SK.  Typical fast boats will have a junior (E-3 or E-4) yeoman and a senior (E-6 or E-7), if you're lucky.  Whoops!  One of them just got preggo!  Guess who just got screwed even worse?  Now imagine this happening in several divisions.  From a readiness standpoint, it's a disaster.  Hell, aircraft carriers are hard hit with these issues before deployments, and ship's company on a CVN runs about 3200, PLUS the air-wing!  Think it's gonna hurt that much more when you're trying to send 10-15 people to schools and take 115-120 out to sea on Westpac or Med run?

Next, let's address career development, both in the enlisted and officer ranks.  More likely than not, females will migrate towards boomers first, given the habitability issues, but even those aren't solved given the fact even a T-hull only has two heads for the enlisted crew.  More on that later.  If women are restricted to boomers only, how is that going to help the males in their career development (particularly the officers) who tend to balance their careers between fast attacks and boomers?  A similar situation exists for the enlisted.  You guys better forget about going to King's Bay or Bangor.  Pearl, Norfolk, or Groton, with a VERY slim outside chance of San Diego or Guam.  That's IT.

Finally, habitability.  Anyone who has ever been on a submarine for more than 15 minutes will tell you that this is gonna be a cluster**** of biblical proportions.  Given the habitability/hotbunking/showering issues, it'll be a full-blown riot inside a week.  And God help the poor bastard that gives Susie non-qual shit about her qual progress, fills her rack pan with TDU weights, or finds her poopy suit full of Mobil red grease one morning.  Oh, and did I happen to mention the evaporator is busted and there's no showers for the next week?  Stores load?  This oughta be fun to watch, too!  And as far as those conversations in Maneuvering on the midwatch, say goodbye to those, too.

Nope--this is killing morale and retention.  But then again, maybe that's what they want.
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Offline ColonialMarine0431

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 11:29:54 AM »
Moronic idea! Take a bunch of 20-something Bubbleheads, mix them with females and all Hell is gonna break loose. Why in Hell are a bunch of civies in D.C. screwing with the military?!

NHSparky pretty much covered it all in a coherent and logical manner.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 11:32:00 AM by ColonialMarine0431 »
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 11:40:37 AM »
I think it is going to get a lot worse for the military with the Zero in charge before it gets better.
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Offline ColonialMarine0431

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 11:44:40 AM »
I think it is going to get a lot worse for the military with the Zero in charge before it gets better.

Memo to Zero: WE have the guns.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 11:57:21 AM »
It seems to me that having semen receptacles aboard subs would allow the seamen to deploy for longer periods of time. I wonder what ratio they have in mind?
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 12:24:36 PM »
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Nope--this is killing morale and retention.  But then again, maybe that's what they want.

Someone finally understands the motivation of this democrat muslim administration.
They do not do things like this because they are stupid.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 12:47:03 PM »
Memo to Zero: WE have the guns.

Also the knowledge of how to shoot them and hide the bodies LOL
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Offline Thor

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 01:07:11 PM »
I guess that this will further enhance the old adage about Sub Sailors........ 100 MEN go down, 50 couples come up..... :stirpot:  :-)



On the serious side; I've never agreed with having women in combat roles. It decreases readiness on the whole, for every reason that Sparky stated plus some.
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Offline Zathras

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2009, 01:23:36 PM »
Easy solution, just let  a sub have an all gay/female only crew. 



Heh heh, I've actually been on board a pink submarine. When I was in the Navy back in 1977, my ship was undergoing yard work in Long Beach. At that time there was a tv show based on the movie Operation Pettycoat. They docked the sub in the same area as my ship and I was able to go aboard after hours....and yes it was bright pink.
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2009, 01:49:19 PM »
Someone finally understands the motivation of this democrat muslim administration.
They do not do things like this because they are stupid.

Drive down morale...the retention rates go down.

Retention rates go down...you don't have enough soldiers/sailors/marines/airmen to fill the ranks for the units deploying in the WoT.

Can't make readiness levels for deploying units...can't deploy them.

Can't deploy them...time to bring them home and forget about this whole silly war on terror.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2009, 01:58:48 PM »
It seems to me that having semen receptacles aboard subs would allow the seamen to deploy for longer periods of time. I wonder what ratio they have in mind?

Bitchslap for ya.

It's not that women can't do many of the jobs on a submarine which are not as physical in nature.  HOWEVER, the ENVIRONMENT in which submariners operate with a mixed crew in that confined a space for that period of time would be devestating.

And ya wanna know who REALLY hates the idea?  Ask a submariner's wife.
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Offline cottondress

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2009, 02:43:48 PM »
Bitchslap for ya.

It's not that women can't do many of the jobs on a submarine which are not as physical in nature.  HOWEVER, the ENVIRONMENT in which submariners operate with a mixed crew in that confined a space for that period of time would be devestating.

And ya wanna know who REALLY hates the idea?  Ask a submariner's wife.

As a 20 yr navy wife all I can say is you aint kidding...lol
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2009, 05:33:01 PM »
Drive down morale...the retention rates go down.

Retention rates go down...you don't have enough soldiers/sailors/marines/airmen to fill the ranks for the units deploying in the WoT.

Can't make readiness levels for deploying units...can't deploy them.

Can't deploy them...time to bring them home and forget about this whole silly war on terror.

I dunno. Retention rates drop too much, and they restart the draft only it is aimed at drafting 0Bama supporter's and indoctrinating them even more to support a dictatorship. :tinfoil2:

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Navy Secretary: Women 'soon' will serve on submarines
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2009, 05:35:06 PM »
I dunno. Retention rates drop too much, and they restart the draft only it is aimed at drafting 0Bama supporter's and indoctrinating them even more to support a dictatorship. :tinfoil2:

I don't see these people...many of whom probably were ready to duck the draft themselves in Vietnam...bringing back something like that.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



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