Secret Service Probing Obama Assassination Poll on Facebook

[NHSparky]

I don't think people should get arrested for talking.

Good.  Then I want you down at the nearest major airport, inside a terminal area, waving to someone and yelling, "HI, JACK!"

[thundley4]

Ya see?  There ya go, making sense!

Tell me, Deuce, do you think the policeman in HERE used sound judgement, or should the assclown in question have simply gone her merry way?

Believe it or not, I had discussions with people (Kelly from the now-defunct SCC) who saw nothing wrong with this person's actions.

The idiot is lucky to still be among the living, IMO.

[bkg]

Good.  Then I want you down at the nearest major airport, inside a terminal area, waving to someone and yelling, "HI, JACK!"

I agree with him, though. Talk/Thought should not be punishable. I recognize the limits of the 1st, but that goal post is being moved constantly, and I'm frustrated.

[Chris_]

I agree with him, though. Talk/Thought should not be punishable. I recognize the limits of the 1st, but that goal post is being moved constantly, and I'm frustrated.

If you want a single rule of thumb that keeps that goal post in the crosshairs, I've found this one works:  Don't say anything for which you aren't willing to take full responsibility.  It's amazing how often that little rule keeps me out of anal probes by humorless civil servants (actually they aren't truly humorless; it's just that they've heard the same stupid joke only 70 times a day, every single working day of their adult life, and IT ISN"T FRIKKIN' FUNNY ANY *******ED MORE!!!!!!!11111eleventyeleventyone!!).

[bkg]

If you want a single rule of thumb that keeps that goal post in the crosshairs, I've found this one works:  Don't say anything for which you aren't willing to take full responsibility.  It's amazing how often that little rule keeps me out of anal probes by humorless civil servants (actually they aren't truly humorless; it's just that they've heard the same stupid joke only 70 times a day, every single working day of their adult life, and IT ISN"T FRIKKIN' FUNNY ANY *******ED MORE!!!!!!!11111eleventyeleventyone!!).

Problem with that... Thirty years ago, one could tell a joke and never have to worry about "taking responsibility" for it. But the line has moved a LOT, and that same joke could likely get one fired.

So your model, while simple, limits the crap out of free speech.

[Chump]

Don't say anything for which you aren't willing to take full responsibility.

 

Rights are self-limiting.  Yours end where another's begin.

[Chump]

Problem with that... Thirty years ago, one could tell a joke and never have to worry about "taking responsibility" for it. But the line has moved a LOT, and that same joke could likely get one fired.

So your model, while simple, limits the crap out of free speech.

The right to free speech is not absolute.  Specifically, your right to free speech amounts to the government having no authority to limit your speech in any way, so long as it does not infringe on anyone else's rights.

You have no right to expect the same from your employer.  They can limit the crap out of your free speech.

[thundley4]

Problem with that... Thirty years ago, one could tell a joke and never have to worry about "taking responsibility" for it. But the line has moved a LOT, and that same joke could likely get one fired.

So your model, while simple, limits the crap out of free speech.

While things were much different 30 years, I think more was changed by 9-11. There is also the wider schism between the left and the right, which seems to have outlawed political humor, and makes it all into political attacks or RACISM !!!!!

[Eupher]

While things were much different 30 years, I think more was changed by 9-11. There is also the wider schism between the left and the right, which seems to have outlawed political humor, and makes it all into political attacks or RACISM !!!!!

Bingo. There was once a time when I could actually tell ethnic jokes with a person of that persuasion (close personal friend), but no longer.

Being politically correct has completely overtaken the sensibilities of everybody. If you value your job, if you want to stay out of court, if you just want to survive another day, political/ethnic/racial/gender jokes are completely verboten.

[bkg]

The right to free speech is not absolute.  Specifically, your right to free speech amounts to the government having no authority to limit your speech in any way, so long as it does not infringe on anyone else's rights.

You have no right to expect the same from your employer.  They can limit the crap out of your free speech.

I have major concerns with anythign not being absolute, frankly. Because if we take that position, then we've effectively given permission to take everything away under the guise of safety, or fairness or anythign else. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, but I can't get logic wrapped around a moveable line.

How does speach infringe on another person's rights?

[Eupher]

I have major concerns with anythign not being absolute, frankly. Because if we take that position, then we've effectively given permission to take everything away under the guise of safety, or fairness or anythign else. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, but I can't get logic wrapped around a moveable line.

How does speach infringe on another person's rights?

Ummm, I would interpret his comment to mean that governments are held to absolutes (or should be) while organizations apart from governments may set their own rules vis a vis speech.

The examples used as limitations to free speech, i.e., yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, etc., frequently employ the use of logic (which, by definition, isn't absolute) in the interest of public safety.

But hell, what do I know? I'm just a freakin' musician.  

[Chump]

I have major concerns with anythign not being absolute, frankly. Because if we take that position, then we've effectively given permission to take everything away under the guise of safety, or fairness or anythign else. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, but I can't get logic wrapped around a moveable line.

How does speach infringe on another person's rights?

I said free speech is not absolute within the context of an employer-employee contract.

To your question, I'll offer a simple example.  Perjury or bearing false witness is technically "just speech."  However, it can lead to someone being falsely imprisoned, infringing on their right to liberty and/or life.  The right to life and liberty cannot be infringed without due process.  That process is perverted by perjury (again, technically just speech) so we very rightly limit speech in that way.  The right to free speech for you ends when your speech infringes on another's right to life and liberty.

[bkg]

I said free speech is not absolute within the context of an employer-employee contract.

Got it - read it wrong.

To your question, I'll offer a simple example.  Perjury or bearing false witness is technically "just speech."  However, it can lead to someone being falsely imprisoned, infringing on their right to liberty and/or life.  The right to life and liberty cannot be infringed without due process.  That process is perverted by perjury (again, technically just speech) so we very rightly limit speech in that way.  The right to free speech for you ends when your speech infringes on another's right to life and liberty.

fair enough.

[Chump]

Got it - read it wrong.

I was just about to post and correct myself.  I didn't clearly say what I meant, so you didn't really get anything wrong.  I think we're on the same page now though.

[thundley4]

Bingo. There was once a time when I could actually tell ethnic jokes with a person of that persuasion (close personal friend), but no longer.

Being politically correct has completely overtaken the sensibilities of everybody. If you value your job, if you want to stay out of court, if you just want to survive another day, political/ethnic/racial/gender jokes are completely verboten.

You can still make jokes about southern redneck/crackers without reprisal from the left. Of course Christians are fair game also.

[bkg]

You can still make jokes about southern redneck/crackers without reprisal from the left. Of course Christians are fair game also.

The correct term is "White honkey cracker." Please use correctly. 

[IassaFTots]

The correct term is "White honkey cracker." Please use correctly. 

I dunno.  I just recently replaced my green car, named Greenie, with a white one that I named Whitey.  I was told I ought not to do that because people would think I was racist.  Say wha?

Please keep in mind that I am not of the mindset to name cars.  When the green one started having major problems, as I was speaking of it, they asked me what it's name was.  I just said Greenie.  Stands to reason, the white one by default is now Whitey.  But why I can't use that word is beyond me.

[Thor]

But hell, what do I know? I'm just a freakin' musician.  

Ya know, musicians typically have an IQ higher than average. Although, since you were in the Army, that does raise a question on the validity of that premise. 

[Chris_]

I dunno.  I just recently replaced my green car, named Greenie, with a white one that I named Whitey.  I was told I ought not to do that because people would think I was racist.  Say wha?

Please keep in mind that I am not of the mindset to name cars.  When the green one started having major problems, as I was speaking of it, they asked me what it's name was.  I just said Greenie.  Stands to reason, the white one by default is now Whitey.  But why I can't use that word is beyond me.

I had a green truck that was referred to as the P.O.S. by everyone in the family.  My mechanic just called it the big, green hemorrhoid.

[Eupher]

Ya know, musicians typically have an IQ higher than average. Although, since you were in the Army, that does raise a question on the validity of that premise. 

Go ahead! Question away!

(But I've got the answers....)